Can anyone step up for the 17/18 season?

[kehatch]

I don't see Stajan any differently then I do Bollig or Raymond. Both guys that lost their jobs to someone better and were demoted to the AHL to make room. 

 

He hasn't lost his job yet so he hasn't been bought out. But the Flames have shown they are willing to make room when the need arises. 

[rickross]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

When all is said and done Stajan will be our 4th line C. Jankowski will be in Stockton. I think the figuring out will be who plays LW with Backlund and Frolik, who plays RW with Tkachuk and Bennett. Any number of LW and RW combinations could end up with Stajan.

Unless the magic dries up I can't see GG readily breaking up the 3M line after last years success. I thought early on Bennett and Brouwer showed some chemistry and in the playoffs Versteeg and Bennett clicked really well. Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer still offers good balance but who knows, training camp could change all our current lineups. If on the same line Stajan would be a good pro to mentor Janko, both are 2 way players so it would make sense to pair them. Stajan is easy to play with so anyone of Lazar, Hathaway,Hamilton could slot in on a line with him should Janko not make the team

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, rickross said:

Unless the magic dries up I can't see GG readily breaking up the 3M line after last years success. I thought early on Bennett and Brouwer showed some chemistry and in the playoffs Versteeg and Bennett clicked really well. Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer still offers good balance but who knows, training camp could change all our current lineups. If on the same line Stajan would be a good pro to mentor Janko, both are 2 way players so it would make sense to pair them. Stajan is easy to play with so anyone of Lazar, Hathaway,Hamilton could slot in on a line with him should Janko not make the team

 

I feel that Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer would be the biggest waste of talent.  Brouwer would drag down Bennett yet again.  Versteeg is fine, except that you need the other winger to put the puck in.

[rickross]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I feel that Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer would be the biggest waste of talent.  Brouwer would drag down Bennett yet again.  Versteeg is fine, except that you need the other winger to put the puck in.

I think it has the makings for a pretty decent 3rd line. Having Brouwer as a $4.5M 4th liner is a waste of $ and talent to me. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he can bounce back this year. 

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, rickross said:

Unless the magic dries up I can't see GG readily breaking up the 3M line after last years success. I thought early on Bennett and Brouwer showed some chemistry and in the playoffs Versteeg and Bennett clicked really well. Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer still offers good balance but who knows, training camp could change all our current lineups. If on the same line Stajan would be a good pro to mentor Janko, both are 2 way players so it would make sense to pair them. Stajan is easy to play with so anyone of Lazar, Hathaway,Hamilton could slot in on a line with him should Janko not make the team

I don't agree with much that you have here. I think Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik was a good way for him to break in. If we want to see him and Bennett excel I think we put them together. I also like Lazar for this line because he will be able to skate with those two where as Brouwer cannot. Let me say this, I believe Jankowski could and should be on the team and would have preferred BT found Stajan a new home. The fact that he is still here tells me he will be on the team and most likely as our 4th line C. I really don't mind a 4th line of Versteeg, Stajan and Brouwer if it ends up that way but I expect to see Versteeg with Backlund and Frolik.

[rickross]

16 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't agree with much that you have here. I think Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik was a good way for him to break in. If we want to see him and Bennett excel I think we put them together. I also like Lazar for this line because he will be able to skate with those two where as Brouwer cannot. Let me say this, I believe Jankowski could and should be on the team and would have preferred BT found Stajan a new home. The fact that he is still here tells me he will be on the team and most likely as our 4th line C. I really don't mind a 4th line of Versteeg, Stajan and Brouwer if it ends up that way but I expect to see Versteeg with Backlund and Frolik.

I don't think we signed Brouwer at $4.5M to play on the 4th line. Sure things could work out that way but I rather leave the wings open for Hathaway, Hamilton or Lazar on the 4th line. The 3M line was arguably our best line last year and one of the best in the league, as much as I want to see Bennett get it going I don't think it's worth blowing up our "top" line. 

[MAC331]

Just now, rickross said:

I don't think we signed Brouwer at $4.5M to play on the 4th line. Sure things could work out that way but I rather leave the wings open for Hathaway, Hamilton or Lazar on the 4th line. The 3M line was arguably our best line last year and one of the best in the league, as much as I want to see Bennett get it going I don't think it's worth blowing up our "top" line. 

That's fine, I gave you reasons why I think GG should. I also in another scenario while staying on the same line subject presented a line of Frolik, Backlund and Brouwer. All 3 of these guys have made their reputations on being the type of players to shut down the opposition. I also think this puts Brouwer in his best position for success while making the team better.

[AlbertaBoy12]

50 minutes ago, rickross said:

I don't think we signed Brouwer at $4.5M to play on the 4th line. Sure things could work out that way but I rather leave the wings open for Hathaway, Hamilton or Lazar on the 4th line. The 3M line was arguably our best line last year and one of the best in the league, as much as I want to see Bennett get it going I don't think it's worth blowing up our "top" line. 

I think people are overblowing how important tkachuk is to the success of the line. Obviously tkachuk is a better player then guys that have played previously with backlund on this team, and we dont want to repeat that. But if you think brouwer is a good player putting him on the backlund line should really be no problem, backlund will still put up positive results. I dont think it matters who backlund/frolik have playing with them they will still push the puck in the right direction, and id rather see the bennett line get going.

[MAC331]

5 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I think people are overblowing how important tkachuk is to the success of the line. Obviously tkachuk is a better player then guys that have played previously with backlund on this team, and we dont want to repeat that. But if you think brouwer is a good player putting him on the backlund line should really be no problem, backlund will still put up positive results. I dont think it matters who backlund/frolik have playing with them they will still push the puck in the right direction, and id rather see the bennett line get going.

I agree, Backlund and Frolik are known veterans. If you want progress as a team it is important to get some other areas better put together.

Hell I want to see a 4th line of Lomberg, Stajan and Hathaway some nights. YAHOO turn em loose.

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎07 at 7:54 PM, MAC331 said:

Let's start a roster. Addition 7/10/2017

Poirier, Hamilton, Foo

Shinkaruk, Mangiapane, Pribyl

Klimchuk, Aagaard, Carroll

Hrivik, Pollock, H Smith

Lomberg

Defense

Bartkowski, Andersson

Valimaki, Kylington

Healey, Ollias-Mattsson

 

Gilles, Rittich

They will bring in a few veteran types so hopefully they get some of the RHS/LHS better positioned on both forwards and defense.

Changes 7/21

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎21 at 0:44 PM, MAC331 said:

Changes 7/21

One comment by BT that keeps ringing in my head is the "nothing wrong with some over ripening" for some players to remain in the minors. For this reason I think we see the season start with a very veteran line up for the Flames and Jankowski in Stockton again. The positive IMO is that our ready for NHL gap is improving with the quality of players in the pipe to step in and replace an injured or poor performing regular. It would be good in Stockton to have some players familiar with each other there.

Poirier, Jankowski, Pribyl

Mangiapane, Hamilton, Foo

Klimchuk, Aagaard, Carroll

Shinkaruk, Pollock, Hrivik

Lomberg, Smith (I could see Smith in the ECHL)

I think we should have high hopes for a number of these forwards so hopefully they get arranged to their best advantage for success.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

One comment by BT that keeps ringing in my head is the "nothing wrong with some over ripening" for some players to remain in the minors.

I personally dont see any problem with that either, these guys for the most part are in their early 20s and still have years of hockey ahead of them. I dont think theres any harm in letting them develop further, if they come into camp and blow the place up, then let em play. If they dont let them play more in the AAA and give them another a year. I think it was BB that said theres never been a prospect ruined by spending more time playing in junior, the AHL etc. But there is prospects ruined by coming up to the NHL too quick.

 

I think of all the guys in the orginization, kulak and bennett might be the ones we see step up this season on the big club.

[travel_dude]

^^^^^

I'm not going to dispute the logic of over-ripening in the AHL, as it has worked for other teams.  But then again, even Detroit is starting to back off that model.

 

What I question is how we are ever going to get a proper read on players at the AHL level.  You don't really have any idea of their NHL ability when they are playing there.  Agostino and Grant were two examples of guys that played very well in the AHL, but have mostly failed to win spots at the NHL level, short of a few stints.

 

The other thing is we need to start graduating players to the NHL.  They need to sink or swim.  They do not have much value as assets in the AHL.  Nobody is going to offer you much for a 22 year old forward or a 24 year old D-man that hasn't played much in the NHL.  The other side of that is that may never break out in the AHL due to level of competition and style of game.

 

I'm mostly okay with guys like Kylington and Andersson playing the year out in the AHL, only because they both are still quite young.  Shinkaruk and Poirier need to be brought up and played soon.  Janko is at the age where he should start to be nearing his potential, so I don't see the value in him playing in the AHL this season, 2nd pro season or not.  He's turning 23 and already NHL size.  

 

Waiting for a top 9 spot to open up for guys like Shinkaruk, Poirier and Janko isn't going to happen anytime soon.  If there is an injury, we will see those callups playing the 4th line anyway, with the roster players moving up.  That's how it seems to work.  Instead of keeping guys like Freddie and Hathaway on the roster, put Shink or Poirier there and use them.  Play every other game or see if they can outplay some of the vets.  Get Janko on the 4th line and let him understudy Stajan.  If he beats out Bennett, then you can move Bennett to the wing.

[AlbertaBoy12]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

^^^^^

I'm not going to dispute the logic of over-ripening in the AHL, as it has worked for other teams.  But then again, even Detroit is starting to back off that model.

 

What I question is how we are ever going to get a proper read on players at the AHL level.  You don't really have any idea of their NHL ability when they are playing there.  Agostino and Grant were two examples of guys that played very well in the AHL, but have mostly failed to win spots at the NHL level, short of a few stints.

 

The other thing is we need to start graduating players to the NHL.  They need to sink or swim.  They do not have much value as assets in the AHL.  Nobody is going to offer you much for a 22 year old forward or a 24 year old D-man that hasn't played much in the NHL.  The other side of that is that may never break out in the AHL due to level of competition and style of game.

 

I'm mostly okay with guys like Kylington and Andersson playing the year out in the AHL, only because they both are still quite young.  Shinkaruk and Poirier need to be brought up and played soon.  Janko is at the age where he should start to be nearing his potential, so I don't see the value in him playing in the AHL this season, 2nd pro season or not.  He's turning 23 and already NHL size.  

 

Waiting for a top 9 spot to open up for guys like Shinkaruk, Poirier and Janko isn't going to happen anytime soon.  If there is an injury, we will see those callups playing the 4th line anyway, with the roster players moving up.  That's how it seems to work.  Instead of keeping guys like Freddie and Hathaway on the roster, put Shink or Poirier there and use them.  Play every other game or see if they can outplay some of the vets.  Get Janko on the 4th line and let him understudy Stajan.  If he beats out Bennett, then you can move Bennett to the wing.

I dont necessarily disagree with what youre saying, but just playing guys in the NHL so you can get a read on them is kind of ridiculous especially if they arent ready. Further I think there is a big difference in how janko plays the game and how grant plays, that difference is noticeable at the AHL level, just as an example of being able to tell what a player is. 

 

Also I dont think there is any reasoning why a player whos ready to go wouldnt be traded because in the AAA. The problem is most teams arent trading their young guys who have a high ceiling if they are in the AHL. I dont think I agree that if for example we put rasmus andersson on the market or the ducks with brandon montour, that wouldnt fetch a good return. I just dont see why teams make that trade, but I dont agree that young players who are NHL ready wouldnt fetch much.

 

I think we can all agree its not about waiting for a spot to open up, and unless they prove they can earn that spot why exactly are we letting them play? I dont agree with BH and always earned never given. But I also dont agree with just opening spots so that these guys can step in. If janko, poirier, and shinkaruk come into camp, earning a spot, then they will play, if they cant beat out stajan(for a center spot) or at this point brouwer, hathaway, hamilton for a bottom 6 spot, depending how things shake out, why are they playing in the NHL?

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I dont necessarily disagree with what youre saying, but just playing guys in the NHL so you can get a read on them is kind of ridiculous especially if they arent ready. Further I think there is a big difference in how janko plays the game and how grant plays, that difference is noticeable at the AHL level, just as an example of being able to tell what a player is. 

 

Also I dont think there is any reasoning why a player whos ready to go wouldnt be traded because in the AAA. The problem is most teams arent trading their young guys who have a high ceiling if they are in the AHL. I dont think I agree that if for example we put rasmus andersson on the market or the ducks with brandon montour, that wouldnt fetch a good return. I just dont see why teams make that trade, but I dont agree that young players who are NHL ready wouldnt fetch much.

 

I think we can all agree its not about waiting for a spot to open up, and unless they prove they can earn that spot why exactly are we letting them play? I dont agree with BH and always earned never given. But I also dont agree with just opening spots so that these guys can step in. If janko, poirier, and shinkaruk come into camp, earning a spot, then they will play, if they cant beat out stajan(for a center spot) or at this point brouwer, hathaway, hamilton for a bottom 6 spot, depending how things shake out, why are they playing in the NHL?

There will always be circumstances surrounding players, contracts and money that effect decisions. If Jankowski per se isn't going to provide a significant upgrade they will stay with Stajan because they are already paying the guy. I think you have to rely on the coaches and talent assessors to determine who could step in to be most effective. I honestly don't believe many if any jobs are won or lost during camp or pre-season.

[redfire11]

It is" ALL about What can you do for me NOW."

GG will hold all prospects to the same criteria that HE is being held by "What are you doing for me now"

GG will play the players that will give HIM the most success THIS YEAR. His concern is not about will we be a better team next year or the year after if I play player X his concern and job is about winning NOW.

Unless a prospect knocks it out of the park day one you can realistically not see a prospect earning a spot on the team. 

Decisions have been made for GG by BT on ( Kulak or Wotherspoon) and Lazar

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Also I dont think there is any reasoning why a player whos ready to go wouldnt be traded because in the AAA. The problem is most teams arent trading their young guys who have a high ceiling if they are in the AHL. I dont think I agree that if for example we put rasmus andersson on the market or the ducks with brandon montour, that wouldnt fetch a good return. I just dont see why teams make that trade, but I dont agree that young players who are NHL ready wouldnt fetch much.

 

Trading a guy from the farm to another team is difficult if they are waiver eligible.

[AlbertaBoy12]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Trading a guy from the farm to another team is difficult if they are waiver eligible.

True it is, but usually guys who are waiver eligible in the AAA arent the best players so they wont get traded for much anyways, im talking high end prospects.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

True it is, but usually guys who are waiver eligible in the AAA arent the best players so they wont get traded for much anyways, im talking high end prospects.

 

I would never suggest trading a high-end prospect.  They are the ones you need to keep.  

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, redfire11 said:

It is" ALL about What can you do for me NOW."

GG will hold all prospects to the same criteria that HE is being held by "What are you doing for me now"

GG will play the players that will give HIM the most success THIS YEAR. His concern is not about will we be a better team next year or the year after if I play player X his concern and job is about winning NOW.

Unless a prospect knocks it out of the park day one you can realistically not see a prospect earning a spot on the team. 

Decisions have been made for GG by BT on ( Kulak or Wotherspoon) and Lazar

 

 

 

I believe players that are out of options like Wotherspoon and Kulak or Bartkowski if they have to be passed through waivers BT isn't to worried about it. Lazar will be given every opportunity to prove his value to the team. He cost a 2nd round pick and a has a low salary, if he fails I think he was worth the gamble.

[AlbertaBoy12]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would never suggest trading a high-end prospect.  They are the ones you need to keep.  

I was just going off what you said about a 22 year old forward or 24 year old D man, if you arent trading a high prospect. It doesnt really matter if they are in the AAA or NHL they arent going to be worth much.

 

That was all I was talking about.

[travel_dude]

21 hours ago, redfire11 said:

It is" ALL about What can you do for me NOW."

GG will hold all prospects to the same criteria that HE is being held by "What are you doing for me now"

GG will play the players that will give HIM the most success THIS YEAR. His concern is not about will we be a better team next year or the year after if I play player X his concern and job is about winning NOW.

Unless a prospect knocks it out of the park day one you can realistically not see a prospect earning a spot on the team. 

Decisions have been made for GG by BT on ( Kulak or Wotherspoon) and Lazar

 

 

 

 

It's not that simple.  Waivers play a big part.  Lazar is not going to be waived because he didn't knock it out of the park day 1.  Spoon and Kulak are more important to the team than Bart, as they are still prospects.  What you see from Bart is what you get.  Both Spoon and Kulak have had little opportunity to display their stuff, other than camp and AHL.  Results being more or less equal, they would likely keep Spoon or Kulak over Bart.  Unfortunately, all the RHS RD spots are filled, so I doubt we see Andersson at this point.  Kylington just isn't ready yet.  The skating and offense are there, just not the consistency of play.

 

As far as forwards go, the team is light on RHS RW.  We have Brouwer, Lazar (Center actually), and a couple of low ceiling guys like Freddie and Hathaway.  As far as prospects go, we have a couple of guys that could compete for a RW spot; Poirier (LHS), Foo (RHS).  I expect Poirier to be more of a mid-season callup, since he had only completed step one of his recovery (addiction part).  He needs to show the player he was when we drafted him.  Foo is a wildcard.  Very possible he is NHL ready at this point.  His compete level and skills may be enough for him to win a NHL job out of camp.  Janko is probably almost guaranteed a spot out of camp.  He is NHL size, has requisite skills and is ready to show what he can do at the NHL level.  

[MAC331]

54 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's not that simple.  Waivers play a big part.  Lazar is not going to be waived because he didn't knock it out of the park day 1.  Spoon and Kulak are more important to the team than Bart, as they are still prospects.  What you see from Bart is what you get.  Both Spoon and Kulak have had little opportunity to display their stuff, other than camp and AHL.  Results being more or less equal, they would likely keep Spoon or Kulak over Bart.  Unfortunately, all the RHS RD spots are filled, so I doubt we see Andersson at this point.  Kylington just isn't ready yet.  The skating and offense are there, just not the consistency of play.

 

As far as forwards go, the team is light on RHS RW.  We have Brouwer, Lazar (Center actually), and a couple of low ceiling guys like Freddie and Hathaway.  As far as prospects go, we have a couple of guys that could compete for a RW spot; Poirier (LHS), Foo (RHS).  I expect Poirier to be more of a mid-season callup, since he had only completed step one of his recovery (addiction part).  He needs to show the player he was when we drafted him.  Foo is a wildcard.  Very possible he is NHL ready at this point.  His compete level and skills may be enough for him to win a NHL job out of camp.  Janko is probably almost guaranteed a spot out of camp.  He is NHL size, has requisite skills and is ready to show what he can do at the NHL level.  

There will be injuries and opportunities this season. Versteeg and Ferland are almost givens to have injuries. I see Poirier as a possible substitute for Versteeg because he can play either Wing now. Depending on where players end up on lines I could see Shinkaruk filling in here and there for Ferland.

I honestly see Jankowski and Foo in Stockton all season.

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I honestly see Jankowski and Foo in Stockton all season.

 

That would be a waste of his final year of ELC.  

[MAC331]

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That would be a waste of his final year of ELC.  

Why ?