Trade: Sieloff for Chiasson

[cccsberg]

32 minutes ago, cross16 said:

In case anyone is missing Pat Sieloff he may be available soon. He rocked Clarke McCarthur with a pretty questionable hit in a scrimmage on the weekend and now McCarthur is out with a conucssion. Bobby Ryan, Chris Niel and others went after him several times throughout the scrimmage.

 

Was never a fan and even more happy he is gone now. 

 

 

The hit seemed to be from the side right up against the boards so I don't think it was that questionable.  Feel bad for Macarthur but those things happen.  If it was a full-on scrimmage then its a full-on scrimmage, don't know.  You think that is any different than a hit from, say Ferland on the Canucks (playoffs), or a Bouma check?

[cross16]

Aside form the fact its a scrimmage, its a quetionable hit. Unsuspecting player, he gets him kind of on the side and its right around the head area. Pretty questionable IMO but I would not call it dirty perse but I think its walks the line for sure. 

 

The fact that he takes advantage of his own teammate to lay him out with a huge hit is the problem I have with it. That shows a real lack of respect for your teammates, but its Seiloff so i'm not really overly surprised. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

The hit seemed to be from the side right up against the boards so I don't think it was that questionable.  Feel bad for Macarthur but those things happen.  If it was a full-on scrimmage then its a full-on scrimmage, don't know.  You think that is any different than a hit from, say Ferland on the Canucks (playoffs), or a Bouma check?

 

What angered guys like Ryan was that it was a practice and the hit against a vet.  It's kind of like Harrison taking a run at a player a few years ago in rookie camp.  You are there to show what you can do, but have to remember that you are playing against your own players.  If the coach thought it was so wrong, why did he keep Seiloff out there afterwards.  

 

I'm not sure of the thought process Seiloff used in making the hit, whether he was making a clean hit that turned out wrong or what, but it's just as strange that Ryan jumped him right after the fact.  

[cccsberg]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What angered guys like Ryan was that it was a practice and the hit against a vet.  It's kind of like Harrison taking a run at a player a few years ago in rookie camp.  You are there to show what you can do, but have to remember that you are playing against your own players.  If the coach thought it was so wrong, why did he keep Seiloff out there afterwards.  

 

I'm not sure of the thought process Seiloff used in making the hit, whether he was making a clean hit that turned out wrong or what, but it's just as strange that Ryan jumped him right after the fact.  

The thing that bothers me is the reaction apparently against Sielof.  Look, the guy is a tough, hitting D man.  That is his game.  If he has to ease off then how is he to showcase all of his skills?  I get the own team issue, but if the coach wants a high tempo scrimmage then that's what he should get.  The hit was not a clear penalty, nor an egrigious boarding shot from behind head-first into the boards. Nor is the issue his teammates sticking up for him, as they should on the ice and which was applauded by the coach.

 

The real issue is the concussion.  Mcarthur missed almost all of last year with a concussion and he works his way back and the first hit of the TC and he is out again.  Concussions are very serious, and potentially career ending and hopefully he gets the care needed to get back to full health again.  Hopefully the players' lawsuit against the NHL proceeds full bore and the league gets slapped but good for the reckless and irresponsible attitude they have had over the years, and still has with things like Bettman trying to parse the truth about proof rather than really standing behind their players and instituting the changes needed to protect them.  

[The_People1]

Seiloff lowered his shoulder into somewhere between Mcarthur's back right shoulder and the middle of the name on his jersey.  Even if you wanted to be really nice about it, you still have to say contact was made on the right shoulder at best from a blindside direction.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to the boards because the hit happened in that awkward corner where the board begins to curve so, let's say Seiloff didn't intent to drill Mcarthur into the boards but still, very illegal hit from behind overall.  

 

I get the whole "play hard and show your stuff" perspective but you also can't throw an illegal hit against a teammate.

 

I hope Mcarthur is okay and i'd like to say he needs to protect himself better but he was completely defenseless in that situation and rightfully, shouldn't have expected to be hit in such a way.  If I was the Sens, then i would release Seiloff right away.  He's burned his bridges with some teammates, obviously.  No point in carrying a player on the team that the entire team despises. 

[conundrumed]

I'd seen Sieloff enough with the Spits to be completely unhappy we took him in the 2nd rd. He tried to stir it up in our camps, so it didn't shock me that it was Sieloff when I heard the news. He tries to play hard to make up for his shortcomings, but he's really just kind of a wannabe goon hacking guys in front of his goalie.

Same as I saw with the Spits.

Poor guy though, now even your teammates hate you.

I guess we can call that trade a win lol.

[rickross]

I actually feel bad for Sieloff. The kid can't catch a break. His career has been derailed so often and now this happens. He obviously didn't intend to hurt MacArthur and he does play a physical brand of hockey so him chasing hits is to be expected. He should have eased off but in reality if MacArthur went down that easily during practice...what would happen to him during the season where the games matter? Hope he recovers but it's just a tough spot for Sieloff.

[rickross]

Chiasson does not look ready for 1st line duties...he's a big body and is a north-south skater which is fine. I can't see this guy keeping up to JH and Monny...on a cerebral tip I just don't see him thinking the game as fast as they do. Perhaps he'll cash in on purely greasy goals..rebounds. If he can somehow find a way to tip pucks very well then he might be able to score 15-20 goals this year. Other than that I just don't see him making the 1st line at this point

[MAC331]

6 hours ago, rickross said:

Chiasson does not look ready for 1st line duties...he's a big body and is a north-south skater which is fine. I can't see this guy keeping up to JH and Monny...on a cerebral tip I just don't see him thinking the game as fast as they do. Perhaps he'll cash in on purely greasy goals..rebounds. If he can somehow find a way to tip pucks very well then he might be able to score 15-20 goals this year. Other than that I just don't see him making the 1st line at this point

How do you know until he actually plays with them ? If you are going by last night game there was a number of players that did not look great.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

How do you know until he actually plays with them ? If you are going by last night game there was a number of players that did not look great.

 

One would hope that a player with 1st line ability would be one of the standouts in a game.  Invisible or meh does not get you top line RW.  A few years ago, Jooris stood out like a star, and managed to get 3rd or 2nd line play.  That's at least the display you hope to see.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

One would hope that a player with 1st line ability would be one of the standouts in a game.  Invisible or meh does not get you top line RW.  A few years ago, Jooris stood out like a star, and managed to get 3rd or 2nd line play.  That's at least the display you hope to see.

Sure you hope to see stand out play but as a line last night there wasn't much there. Personally I hate to say it but our top line RW could end up like last year, an experiment.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Sure you hope to see stand out play but as a line last night there wasn't much there. Personally I hate to say it but our top line RW could end up like last year, an experiment.

 

Not unexpected.

 

Chiasson got a bad rap from Ottawa fans last year especially, but I don't think there is really that much wrong with him.  I don't think he can play top minutes, but that is just an opinion.  Beyond the top line, I don't know where he fits.  No to Bennett's line.  No to Backlund's line (at least until proves otherwise).  That leaves the 4th line.  Is that a good use for him? 

[MAC331]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not unexpected.

 

Chiasson got a bad rap from Ottawa fans last year especially, but I don't think there is really that much wrong with him.  I don't think he can play top minutes, but that is just an opinion.  Beyond the top line, I don't know where he fits.  No to Bennett's line.  No to Backlund's line (at least until proves otherwise).  That leaves the 4th line.  Is that a good use for him? 

I would rather see some speed and aggressiveness with Stajan and that isn't Chiasson. I think he gets a chance with JG and SM, if it doesn't work they waive him. Pribyl should be 100% by December, maybe he gets an early look.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

One would hope that a player with 1st line ability would be one of the standouts in a game.  Invisible or meh does not get you top line RW.  A few years ago, Jooris stood out like a star, and managed to get 3rd or 2nd line play.  That's at least the display you hope to see.

 

How is it that you're using Jooris as a comparison, yet without Johnny he still looked super ordinary. Without his speed I doubt he made the club. In the beginning he played solely on adrenaline, which was why we didn't see much from him after he was I. The league longer. 

 

Look at Anson Carter when he played with the twins. Sure he looked decent prior to playing with them, but he's an example of how an ordinary player can look better by playing with hockey smart linemates. 

 

Not it fully defending Chiasson here, just saying we can't know until they actually play together.

[MAC331]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

How is it that you're using Jooris as a comparison, yet without Johnny he still looked super ordinary. Without his speed I doubt he made the club. In the beginning he played solely on adrenaline, which was why we didn't see much from him after he was I. The league longer. 

 

Look at Anson Carter when he played with the twins. Sure he looked decent prior to playing with them, but he's an example of how an ordinary player can look better by playing with hockey smart linemates. 

 

Not it fully defending Chiasson here, just saying we can't know until they actually play together.

I agree that your best players can elevate others around them however the "other" also has to rise to the occasion. Our reality is GG is taking a flyer on Chiasson at 875K and letting the player determine if he stays. Let's see what he can do with JG and SM first.

[MAC331]

Just now, MAC331 said:

I agree that your best players can elevate others around them however the "other" also has to rise to the occasion. Our reality is GG is taking a flyer on Chiasson at 875K and letting the player determine if he stays. Let's see what he can do with JG and SM first.

Just wanted to add that I think some people got way ahead themselves on Jooris. He came on and played well on the upper lines but I don't think he was ever intended to be a fixture there. He would have been a very good 12, 13 or 14th forward for us, especially at 675K. I not saying we can't do without him but he is a better all round player than a Hathaway or Vey will be for us.

[robrob74]

I think Hathaway brings something different, if he can maintain that, it would be a different kind of effectiveness. 

Getting under the other team's skin is a skill that this team has lacked for awhile. If Hathaway isn't going to hurt us in any other part of the game (scoresheet and penalties) and draws penalties, then it's almost like he is contributing offense. He gives the Gaudreau's, Monahan's and Bennett's opportunity on the pp. 

 

while I don't know Jooris' kill rate on the PK, but, we had the worst PK in the league and he was one of the usual killers. 

[travel_dude]

48 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

How is it that you're using Jooris as a comparison, yet without Johnny he still looked super ordinary. Without his speed I doubt he made the club. In the beginning he played solely on adrenaline, which was why we didn't see much from him after he was I. The league longer. 

 

Look at Anson Carter when he played with the twins. Sure he looked decent prior to playing with them, but he's an example of how an ordinary player can look better by playing with hockey smart linemates. 

 

Not it fully defending Chiasson here, just saying we can't know until they actually play together.

 

They didn't play the entire pre-season together.  His play warranted some different looks.  Jooris showed that he belonged in the NHL during pre-season, not that he belonged with JH.  Jooris played good for most of that first season until he was injured.  He suffered a bit after that.  

[rickross]

8 hours ago, MAC331 said:

How do you know until he actually plays with them ? If you are going by last night game there was a number of players that did not look great.

The good ol eye test. Like Travel dude said those kinds of players should stand out....especially in a pre season game. Brouwer has already looked more suited for a 1st line role than Chiasson. 

[robrob74]

But who had Chiasson been playing with, and who has Brouwer? 

 

Still not defending Chiasson, but gotta say that the quality in Cs they play with are definitely night and day. 

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

But who had Chiasson been playing with, and who has Brouwer? 

 

Still not defending Chiasson, but gotta say that the quality in Cs they play with are definitely night and day. 

 

Players in other games that stood out:  Lomberg, Aagaard.  Neither are NHL talent, but showed a little something.  Still lots of time for Chiasson, but when does he make himself known to the fans.  Poirier did.  Ferland dd.  Just saying.

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, rickross said:

The good ol eye test. Like Travel dude said those kinds of players should stand out....especially in a pre season game. Brouwer has already looked more suited for a 1st line role than Chiasson. 

First there has to be circumstances that would have one standout throughout any game. There are time stars go missing in action so I would hardly judge what Chiasson is capable of from the play of this past game. Also there will be other ingredients at work should he play on a line with JG and SM, Gaudreau will always be the playmaker, Monahan the hard working opportunist and if Chiasson can be solid board worker and net presence he could do well. What I saw last season with Monahan was average effort along the boards and that line needs help in this area. If Chiasson can quietly go about doing a good job on that line in those areas he won't need to stand out.

BTW Brouwer looks good right where he is with Bennett.

[cccsberg]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Players in other games that stood out:  Lomberg, Aagaard.  Neither are NHL talent, but showed a little something.  Still lots of time for Chiasson, but when does he make himself known to the fans.  Poirier did.  Ferland dd.  Just saying.

Chiasson has already proven himself at the NHL level, and played for our coaches, so he'll get time on the team and will have to prove he's not worthy.  These other guys have perhaps done better but don't have that resume and haven't looked so much better as to displace Chiasson to this point.  They still have opportunity but have to produce when given the chance.

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Players in other games that stood out:  Lomberg, Aagaard.  Neither are NHL talent, but showed a little something.  Still lots of time for Chiasson, but when does he make himself known to the fans.  Poirier did.  Ferland dd.  Just saying.

Means little at this stage.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Means little at this stage.

 

I guess what you are saying is that a player doesn't have anything to prove, as long as he has played NHL games in the past.

2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Chiasson has already proven himself at the NHL level, and played for our coaches, so he'll get time on the team and will have to prove he's not worthy.  These other guys have perhaps done better but don't have that resume and haven't looked so much better as to displace Chiasson to this point.  They still have opportunity but have to produce when given the chance.

 

Vey had experience with the coaching group, as did HIggins.  Of the three, would you say Chiasson had the best camp so far?