Trade: Sieloff for Chiasson

[robrob74]

Travel,

 

Up to this camp, Poirier hasn't done anything, so that means he is playing well? I admit I haven't seen much of the camp. I listened to Friday's game, but only as I was busy doing other things. 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Travel,

 

Up to this camp, Poirier hasn't done anything, so that means he is playing well? I admit I haven't seen much of the camp. I listened to Friday's game, but only as I was busy doing other things. 

 Poirier played a really effective game on Ferland's line.  I believe that Vey was the C, but might be mistaken there.  He had as many chances as Ferland that game.  Poirier didn't play Friday.  They do need to play something like 8 vets, and Poirier is not a vet.

[travel_dude]

By the sounds of it, Chiasson will get time with Bennett and Tkachuk tonight.  Should be as good a test as any.

[cccsberg]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 Poirier played a really effective game on Ferland's line.  I believe that Vey was the C, but might be mistaken there.  He had as many chances as Ferland that game.  Poirier didn't play Friday.  They do need to play something like 8 vets, and Poirier is not a vet.

I believe Poirier played quite well, but not outstanding, nor did he score which people tend to focus on.  If that continues he'll get sent back to the AHL and have the full year to prove he is ready for the next step.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

By the sounds of it, Chiasson will get time with Bennett and Tkachuk tonight.  Should be as good a test as any.

With Poirier on tonight's roster, I hope to see him get time there too.

With a boatload of cuts tomorrow, I thought Higgins should be in tonite's game, but no.

And why not run Jankowski out instead of Stajan?

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

With Poirier on tonight's roster, I hope to see him get time there too.

With a boatload of cuts tomorrow, I thought Higgins should be in tonite's game, but no.

And why not run Jankowski out instead of Stajan?

 

A bit frustrating, but it may mean the guys playing tonight are getting final evaluations.  Except for some of the obvious guys.

Korpikoski, Grossman, Vey, Grigoriev.

 

Stajan might be being evaluated again, as he has not shown much at all for a vet.  Maybe the same for Bollig.  Poirier with Freddie I don't mind; adding in Bollig is a recipe for a bad night.  I suspect Tkachuk gets as many games as possible.  

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

And why not run Jankowski out instead of Stajan?

 

Stajan isn't an NHLer anymore.  I would put him on waivers to start the season.  

[StarkRaving]

GG has certainly given Stajan a lot of ice time, whether it be 5v5, PP or PK.  I wonder what he's thinking.  I think Stajan's still marginally better than Hamilton and Jankowski, but we're very close to a tipping point where salary differences could come into the decision making process.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, StarkRaving said:

GG has certainly given Stajan a lot of ice time, whether it be 5v5, PP or PK.  I wonder what he's thinking.  I think Stajan's still marginally better than Hamilton and Jankowski, but we're very close to a tipping point where salary differences could come into the decision making process.

Usually a lot of ice time in a camp means the coaches are really assessing you. In the end I think Stajan is here but agree with you this season is the one to phase him out.

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Usually a lot of ice time in a camp means the coaches are really assessing you. In the end I think Stajan is here but agree with you this season is the one to phase him out.

 

Agreed. His 3.5 million salary and 2 years left basically guarantees him a roster spot. Not ideal but that's the reality as I really don't think the Flames have any appetite to bury and pay Stajan 3.5 mill to play in the AHL for the next 2 year, or 1 year and then buy him out. Need to try and get him to play productively which is exactly what I think Gulutzan is trying to do and that's what any good coach would do. 

[MAC331]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

Agreed. His 3.5 million salary and 2 years left basically guarantees him a roster spot. Not ideal but that's the reality as I really don't think the Flames have any appetite to bury and pay Stajan 3.5 mill to play in the AHL for the next 2 year, or 1 year and then buy him out. Need to try and get him to play productively which is exactly what I think Gulutzan is trying to do and that's what any good coach would do. 

The part that gets missed with Stajan is that he is a really good leader and dressing room presence. Put some speed and grit on his wings and run with it as another checking tpe line.

[MAC331]

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

A bit frustrating, but it may mean the guys playing tonight are getting final evaluations.  Except for some of the obvious guys.

Korpikoski, Grossman, Vey, Grigoriev.

 

Stajan might be being evaluated again, as he has not shown much at all for a vet.  Maybe the same for Bollig.  Poirier with Freddie I don't mind; adding in Bollig is a recipe for a bad night.  I suspect Tkachuk gets as many games as possible.  

Call it a feeling but I think it best to have a line of Shinkaruk, Jankowski and Poirier start in the AHL with some specifics to work towards.

I would give Tkachuk a thorough run here right up to the 9 games in and then return him to Junior for another year. He has talents no doubts but he has some obvious disadvantages playing against experienced NHLers. Another year of success and putting on some muscle will help him.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Call it a feeling but I think it best to have a line of Shinkaruk, Jankowski and Poirier start in the AHL with some specifics to work towards.

I would give Tkachuk a thorough run here right up to the 9 games in and then return him to Junior for another year. He has talents no doubts but he has some obvious disadvantages playing against experienced NHLers. Another year of success and putting on some muscle will help him.

 

What I would like to see is Tkachuk playing RW on the top line for those 9 games.  He has been the top 3 best player in the games he was in.  If he only lasts for 9 games, then hopefully Pribyl has shown up in the AHL as being the top offensive threat on RW.  If he lasts longer than 9 games, then he has shown enough chemistry with Bennett or Monahan to stick it out.  

[MAC331]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What I would like to see is Tkachuk playing RW on the top line for those 9 games.  He has been the top 3 best player in the games he was in.  If he only lasts for 9 games, then hopefully Pribyl has shown up in the AHL as being the top offensive threat on RW.  If he lasts longer than 9 games, then he has shown enough chemistry with Bennett or Monahan to stick it out.  

They could do that however my guess is management will know by then if they plan to keep him. If they give him those games it may be simply as encouragement for his future. I see him at 18 turning 19 years of age just slightly out of is league this year. I like what I am seeing with Tkachuk I just wonder how he would do over a full season of NHL grind.

[The_People1]

The Sens traded away Chiasson to get a Macarthur concussion.  If you look at it that way, then i think we make the trade 10 times out of time even if Chiasson amounts to nothing with the Flames.  We may have saved Ferland or Bouma from a serious head injury.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

They could do that however my guess is management will know by then if they plan to keep him. If they give him those games it may be simply as encouragement for his future. I see him at 18 turning 19 years of age just slightly out of is league this year. I like what I am seeing with Tkachuk I just wonder how he would do over a full season of NHL grind.

 

For sure Tkachuk would need to dial it back a notch.  Unlike Monahan, he has NHL size in his draft year.  May lack some of the speed.  Put him next to Bennett and you see two similar sized guys.  Bennett added a lot this past summer.    

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

For sure Tkachuk would need to dial it back a notch.  Unlike Monahan, he has NHL size in his draft year.  May lack some of the speed.  Put him next to Bennett and you see two similar sized guys.  Bennett added a lot this past summer.    

There are a lot of people trying to will Tkachuk onto this team now so we will see what happens. I just know from being an athlete and weightlifting your strength and muscle power are different at 18/19 than when going 19 to 20. How do you think he has been handling the one on one battles aside from his ability to score ?

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

There are a lot of people trying to will Tkachuk onto this team now so we will see what happens. I just know from being an athlete and weightlifting your strength and muscle power are different at 18/19 than when going 19 to 20. How do you think he has been handling the one on one battles aside from his ability to score ?

 

I think 18 is fine when you are a pure skill guy who excels at an evasion style of game.  However, in Tkachuk's case, he's full frontal in your face.  18 and 19, and then 20, makes a big difference.  He should go back to Junior to continue body building so he can play his style of game in the NHL.  Otherwise, he will get hurt.

[MAC331]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think 18 is fine when you are a pure skill guy who excels at an evasion style of game.  However, in Tkachuk's case, he's full frontal in your face.  18 and 19, and then 20, makes a big difference.  He should go back to Junior to continue body building so he can play his style of game in the NHL.  Otherwise, he will get hurt.

I have been impressed but I have also seen times where he got handled quite easily.

[conundrumed]

24 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think 18 is fine when you are a pure skill guy who excels at an evasion style of game.  However, in Tkachuk's case, he's full frontal in your face.  18 and 19, and then 20, makes a big difference.  He should go back to Junior to continue body building so he can play his style of game in the NHL.  Otherwise, he will get hurt.

He's 6'2"/205 lbs, so I don't think size is an issue. Once the season starts, he deserves a hard look. Don't really have a "heat-of-the-battle" winger like him, left or right.

Don't get me wrong, I hate him. It'll take a little time for me not to, as he's a Knights player, and the most annoying one. lol

[cross16]

I'm personally not a big fan of the whole 9 game audition thing. to me you should make the team or you shouldn't and i'm not sure I agree with the idea of "trying someone out" for 9 games. Wins are far too important now and with a new coach I don't think the Flames have the luxury of waiting for anything, they need to get cohesion and systems down ASAP and that includes line combos. I don't like the idea of someone "maybe" holding down a spot that could go to someone who will likely be up here all year. 

 

I can't comment a ton on whehter or not Tkachuk should make it becuase i havn't seem him practice. Based on games I would lean strongly to sending him back. I think he needs to get faster and I think he needs to tone it down a little as he plays over the edge right now. That will be great in the long term, but this year I would picture him getting too many PIMs. But the kicker is practice. If he is blowing you away in practice then I would change my thinking, but soley based on games (which is not enough) i send him back. I think the next 2 games you test the heck out of him and see what happens. 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I'm personally not a big fan of the whole 9 game audition thing. to me you should make the team or you shouldn't and i'm not sure I agree with the idea of "trying someone out" for 9 games. Wins are far too important now and with a new coach I don't think the Flames have the luxury of waiting for anything, they need to get cohesion and systems down ASAP and that includes line combos. I don't like the idea of someone "maybe" holding down a spot that could go to someone who will likely be up here all year. 

 

I can't comment a ton on whehter or not Tkachuk should make it becuase i havn't seem him practice. Based on games I would lean strongly to sending him back. I think he needs to get faster and I think he needs to tone it down a little as he plays over the edge right now. That will be great in the long term, but this year I would picture him getting too many PIMs. But the kicker is practice. If he is blowing you away in practice then I would change my thinking, but soley based on games (which is not enough) i send him back. I think the next 2 games you test the heck out of him and see what happens. 

 

While I agree that you shouldn't just have a guy play 9 games to see where he is, the reality is that you don't always know how a player reacts right away.  Classic examples from the Oilers is Draisaitl.  They blew a year on Draisaitl thinking he was game ready, and ended up sending him down after they had burned a year.  Monahan took the opportunity and delivered early on and stuck.  

[conundrumed]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I'm personally not a big fan of the whole 9 game audition thing. to me you should make the team or you shouldn't and i'm not sure I agree with the idea of "trying someone out" for 9 games. Wins are far too important now and with a new coach I don't think the Flames have the luxury of waiting for anything, they need to get cohesion and systems down ASAP and that includes line combos. I don't like the idea of someone "maybe" holding down a spot that could go to someone who will likely be up here all year. 

 

I can't comment a ton on whehter or not Tkachuk should make it becuase i havn't seem him practice. Based on games I would lean strongly to sending him back. I think he needs to get faster and I think he needs to tone it down a little as he plays over the edge right now. That will be great in the long term, but this year I would picture him getting too many PIMs. But the kicker is practice. If he is blowing you away in practice then I would change my thinking, but soley based on games (which is not enough) i send him back. I think the next 2 games you test the heck out of him and see what happens. 

I think it's one of those things cross, in that you compare him to your options. Is he a better option than Ferland/Bouma et. al. for top 6 LW?

I think that's why Monahan stayed up, we just didn't have options.

Is this a similar situation? We have lots of LWers I know, but what is the best option? Particularly if we have to #1 RW Ferland.

[MAC331]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think it's one of those things cross, in that you compare him to your options. Is he a better option than Ferland/Bouma et. al. for top 6 LW?

I think that's why Monahan stayed up, we just didn't have options.

Is this a similar situation? We have lots of LWers I know, but what is the best option? Particularly if we have to #1 RW Ferland.

I would have to say Monahan was/is way more fundamentally sound than Tkachuk . Tkachuk isn't afraid to crash and bang to work the front of the net but the rest of his game has a ways to improve. He hasn't played against the best NHL defensemen yet, let's keep that in mind. He is going to be a good player but I wouldn't rush him to fill a weak spot now.

[conundrumed]

18 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I would have to say Monahan was/is way more fundamentally sound than Tkachuk . Tkachuk isn't afraid to crash and bang to work the front of the net but the rest of his game has a ways to improve. He hasn't played against the best NHL defensemen yet, let's keep that in mind. He is going to be a good player but I wouldn't rush him to fill a weak spot now.

I think that is more playing style Mac, where you hope Mony becomes a Toews type, Tkachuk a Claude Lemieux/Cory Perry. That being said, Bennett isn't Getzlaf's size, but I expect him to be that type of talented nuisance, to compare.

What I've noticed about the high-ranked OHL forwards in the last 5 odd years, is that physicality of the NHL comes natural and they adjust. Consider Mony, Galchenyuk, MacDavid entered the league in their draft years. Being the top scorers on their teams, they had every top OHL dman from every team beating on them.

A lot of those dmen become NHL dmen, so I'm not sold that there's a huge jump in the physicality they'll face in the NHL. There's a jump for sure, but I'm not sold that it's a big one for the top forwards.