kehatch Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I don't get the Hamonic thing personally... Why would we want a player with issues, trade requests, and approaching his late 20's on a rebuilding team? I'm not saying he's a lost cause or anything...but why would we go out and target him? Personally, if I were dealing with the Islanders, I'd be wanting Ryan Pulock and/or Tyler Wotherspoon. Pulock could potentially be Great. Higher ceiling than Hamonic, and almost NHL-ready. Tyler Wotherspoon, considerably more talented than his brother. And how awesome would it be to have the Wotherspoon brothers in Flames jerseys? 25 is too old now? You live in a different world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Yeah. If we could get Hamonic and afford to pay his contract, we definitely take it. The problem is cost. There is no way our roster stays the same either. I don't think it is a good practice to assume anything when all kinds of movements can take place. Hence why literally all of those say "or replacement"". The roster may change. The number of players we need does not. And those anchor contracts aren't going to be easy to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted March 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I noticed in the last game Jokipakka got beat badly when confronted with an onrushing player and what appeared to be indecision about trying to poke-check the guy or reverse full speed. He tried the check, and partially missed and got left behind. Its interesting to watch specific guys over significant intervals to really see their game, which I'm doing with Jyrki. It still seems amazing/strange that we got him from Dallas as not even the key piece of a package for Russell (the warrior, which I don't disagree with). So far Jokipakka has looked very solid. You have to wonder if certain players get a bit complacent about their early successes, but still have serious weaknesses that a guy doesn't really address until the harsh, cold reality of an unwelcome trade. Another guy in that category might be Baertschi who seems to be coming around in Vancouver(though his trade was certainly welcomed). If Jokipakka just needed a wake-up call and new scenery then I'm more than glad to accommodate him with the Flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I noticed in the last game Jokipakka got beat badly when confronted with an onrushing player and what appeared to be indecision about trying to poke-check the guy or reverse full speed. He tried the check, and partially missed and got left behind. Its interesting to watch specific guys over significant intervals to really see their game, which I'm doing with Jyrki. It still seems amazing/strange that we got him from Dallas as not even the key piece of a package for Russell (the warrior, which I don't disagree with). So far Jokipakka has looked very solid. You have to wonder if certain players get a bit complacent about their early successes, but still have serious weaknesses that a guy doesn't really address until the harsh, cold reality of an unwelcome trade. Another guy in that category might be Baertschi who seems to be coming around in Vancouver(though his trade was certainly welcomed). If Jokipakka just needed a wake-up call and new scenery then I'm more than glad to accommodate him with the Flames. I agree and saw the same thing. I really like how Jokipakka plays down low and he is certainly more physical than I was expecting but his gap control needs work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I agree and saw the same thing. I really like how Jokipakka plays down low and he is certainly more physical than I was expecting but his gap control needs work. Yea I agree with you on that. But heres to hoping that the coaching staff works with him, and he comes into camp next year in great shape, we could have a good 4/5 dman on our hands. Although I was pleased to see brodie/hamilton the other night together, I think that only leaves you with gio and engelland (blah), I think id rather see gio/nakladal but the problem is who do you play on your bottom pairing with kevin then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 As much as I would like to have Hamonic, the cost to get may be too high. What would you be willing to trade that gets a player of that calibre? What would Winnipeg give up? I think they have a lot more movable assets that are worth more than our movable assets. We could trade Hamilton, but that doesn't make any sense. I don't see any other things they would be interested in. I doubt Backlund would get it done. All we know coming out of Snow as Hamonic made his request was he wanted equal value, preferably a defenseman. Now it is obvious Hamonic is going no where until NYI has their chance for a SC. I think this could possibly change what Snow finds acceptable in the offseason. Our situation is we either have something expendable they need or BT involves another team that could use some of our assets for something NYI would find acceptable. I would have no problem using Backlund for the right deal. What is it you think WIN or EDM would put on the table ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I agree and saw the same thing. I really like how Jokipakka plays down low and he is certainly more physical than I was expecting but his gap control needs work. The Buffalo game was by far his worst. It was his 2nd game and first game with a full practice, so I think it's an adjustment thing. Hamilton was lost in his first games playing with Gio. I am sure that the defensive strategies are different between Dallas and Calgary. Overall, I am satisfied with the product. He needs some work, but I think he will be better than Russell. Maybe only ever tops out as a 5/6 guy, but that is fine. That is all we gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 The Buffalo game was by far his worst. It was his 2nd game and first game with a full practice, so I think it's an adjustment thing. Hamilton was lost in his first games playing with Gio. I am sure that the defensive strategies are different between Dallas and Calgary. Overall, I am satisfied with the product. He needs some work, but I think he will be better than Russell. Maybe only ever tops out as a 5/6 guy, but that is fine. That is all we gave up. The fact that we are talking about Jokipakka as an NHL ready dman is a bonus considering he was obtained from an expiring Russell. Toss in a 20 yr old top 20 point producing WHL player (Pollock) and a 2nd rd pick (maybe 1st rd), I would consider that grand larceny. I like this kids age, size and reach. He could very well become a corner stone piece on this team for years to come. What did Dallas not like about this kid and why would they give up on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 The fact that we are talking about Jokipakka as an NHL ready dman is a bonus considering he was obtained from an expiring Russell. Toss in a 20 yr old top 20 point producing WHL player (Pollock) and a 2nd rd pick (maybe 1st rd), I would consider that grand larceny. I like this kids age, size and reach. He could very well become a corner stone piece on this team for years to come. What did Dallas not like about this kid and why would they give up on him? I have to believe moves such as these are which player gives them the best chance to win the SC now. Russell plays a lot bigger than he is and brings a great attitude to the dressing room, sometimes this is what the situation calls for. I hope it works for them and Russell while we get a good young defenseman we can grow with and a talented LW in Pollock. Our immediate depth improved a lot with this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 The fact that we are talking about Jokipakka as an NHL ready dman is a bonus considering he was obtained from an expiring Russell. Toss in a 20 yr old top 20 point producing WHL player (Pollock) and a 2nd rd pick (maybe 1st rd), I would consider that grand larceny. I like this kids age, size and reach. He could very well become a corner stone piece on this team for years to come. What did Dallas not like about this kid and why would they give up on him? Just his size alone is a big benefit. Russell was unable to handle most bigger forwards. Jokipakka isn't at his peak size and strength, but is still able to hang in there with some of the big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I think Kevin is starting to show that he hast top 4 potential. Right now, I'd say he's as good as Russell who was a fixture there for us. And I think he projects higher. Him with Hamilton may actually be a good pairing. Kevin seems to be a responsible D-man who focuses on defence first, and isn't too flashy but makes good breakout passes. That would seem to open up Hamilton for a bit more of his up-ice drive which seems to have been limited playing with weaker D-men on his pairing all year. Seems to me like they might complement each other well going into next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I think we should be careful not to over rate the kid. I like him and I am optimistic with what I have seen. But once the honeymoon is over and he is playing meaningful games that matter hopefully the mood doesn't turn because of the expectations that have been built up. He is a depth D playing sheltered minutes on a non playoff team. Let's see where it goes from here but let's keep it realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I think we should be careful not to over rate the kid. I like him and I am optimistic with what I have seen. But once the honeymoon is over and he is playing meaningful games that matter hopefully the mood doesn't turn because of the expectations that have been built up. He is a depth D playing sheltered minutes on a non playoff team. Let's see where it goes from here but let's keep it realistic. I would question the being sheltered part. In two games where his usage was shown, he started 47% and 56% in the O-zone. On the road, it's not very easy to shelter a pairing. He has looked pretty good on the PK too. He's like Schlemko. Good depth. He may even be a great 5/6 guy. The important thing is he is young, will gain weight, will become more experienced, and is much cheaper than Russell will be. As far as a D-man goes, the difference between him and Russell is not huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I would question the being sheltered part. In two games where his usage was shown, he started 47% and 56% in the O-zone. On the road, it's not very easy to shelter a pairing. He has looked pretty good on the PK too. He's like Schlemko. Good depth. He may even be a great 5/6 guy. The important thing is he is young, will gain weight, will become more experienced, and is much cheaper than Russell will be. As far as a D-man goes, the difference between him and Russell is not huge. I agree, he's looking pretty good to date. I also agree we need to avoid building up too high expectations, and not only on him. Its the same for others. Let these guys play and develop and become the best they can be. That said, from the team/management perspective, I have no problem believing there is a fairly good chance he can slot into a solid 4D role in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 He has another year at 900k after this one and he will still be a RFA. He is a 3rd pair dman until that point and until he shows more. All we need is one of our prospects to turn into a top 4 D at some point in the next 2 years. If its Kevin, great. If its spoon, great. If its Anderson or Morrison or Kylington, great. Just need 1.The ideal is that maybe in the hunt to be that top 4 they rest of them start turning in some great 5/6 dman play at sub 1M contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 So, I think that since we all think Russell is a 3rd pair D who can step up in a pinch, getting this guy plus everything else makes the deal great! Can we trade him in a package to get Hamonic? Maybe? But he is a young D and part of what Snow is looking for, but DEFINITELY not on par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 So, I think that since we all think Russell is a 3rd pair D who can step up in a pinch, getting this guy plus everything else makes the deal great! Can we trade him in a package to get Hamonic? Maybe? But he is a young D and part of what Snow is looking for, but DEFINITELY not on par. Well if you were looking to deal with Islanders a combo of one of our good young D (for the future) coupled with Wideman (for the now) may make sense. Jokipakka being a bit ahead of our current prospects probably makes him more attractive for a win now type islanders. Wideman (with some salary retained), Jokipakka, Agostino or a 2nd might be in the range of what the islanders would take/get for Hamonic. They could probably get more in terms of picks/prospects if they wanted to go that route but I think they want NHL players or prospects ready to take that next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I don't think he is a 3/4 D man. Saying this you are inferring he might replace Hamilton as 3D. For now I would say he is a 5/6 D with a little upside. Don't get me wrong I like his play but #3? No ..... #4? well maybe if he has a good partner..... I'm not jumping the gun on Pakka either, wasn't saying he is a #3 or 4 right now. Just saying so far he's been steady and if you actually read my quote I said he has the potential to become a #3 or 4 in the future. He's definitely a 5/6 right now but he's got good size and mobile and is showing some good hockey smarts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I'm not jumping the gun on Pakka either, wasn't saying he is a #3 or 4 right now. Just saying so far he's been steady and if you actually read my quote I said he has the potential to become a #3 or 4 in the future. He's definitely a 5/6 right now but he's got good size and mobile and is showing some good hockey smarts Well it would be nice if he becomes a #4 D. I don't think/expect more of him right now. I hope he finds a fit here with us. Butler found a fit with JBo on top pairing and he was definitely a 5/6 DMan with a little upside. I like most of what I have seen so far and he skates well enough too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Jokipakka was very good in the game tonight. Very good to excellent skating, gap control, stick checking, physical play and puck movement. He seems to be settling in and I'm really liking what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omit555 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Jokipakka was very good in the game tonight. Very good to excellent skating, gap control, stick checking, physical play and puck movement. He seems to be settling in and I'm really liking what he's doing. Jyrki-Boy was best dman in that game. no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Jokipakka was very good in the game tonight. Very good to excellent skating, gap control, stick checking, physical play and puck movement. He seems to be settling in and I'm really liking what he's doing. Let's just hope Dallas makes it to that conference final it becomes the trade of the year then. J Pak has been solid but more importantly consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Jokipakka is a solid defender, he's turning into a fair swap for Russell by himself. A little Gio should go a long way in his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krule Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Jokipakka is a solid defender, he's turning into a fair swap for Russell by himself. A little Gio should go a long way in his development. I agree. He's been exactly as advertised. I expect that if the same consistent play is there going forward, he may turn into a fine 3-4 Dman down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 We need to make more trades with Dallas Stars. Good history and track record. And make less trades with the Leafs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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