Jyrki Jokipakka Discussion Thread

[Krule]

I thought Pakka played another solid game, the jury is still out in terms of where he belongs but he looks like he could become a steady 3-4 D man in the future. I'm sold on Nakladal already, I hope the Flames sign him to an affordable 2 yr contract.

 

JJ played another pretty solid game last night. I am also sold on Nakladal. Get him signed! Just a few contracts to unload and things look good for next season.

[DirtyDeeds]

I thought Pakka played another solid game, the jury is still out in terms of where he belongs but he looks like he could become a steady 3-4 D man in the future. I'm sold on Nakladal already, I hope the Flames sign him to an affordable 2 yr contract.

I don't think he is a 3/4 D man. Saying this you are inferring he might replace Hamilton as 3D. For now I would say he is a 5/6 D with a little upside.

 

Don't get me wrong I like his play but #3? No .....

#4? well maybe if he has a good partner.....

[cross16]

I don't think he is a 3/4 D man. Saying this you are inferring he might replace Hamilton as 3D. For now I would say he is a 5/6 D with a little upside.

 

Don't get me wrong I like his play but #3? No .....

#4? well maybe if he has a good partner.....

 

Agreed. top 4 maybe, but 3 I dont' see it. Even having watched him only a half dozen times nothing about his game is screaming top 3 D to me. I think people forget a top 3 dman isn't easy to find, nor it is an easy role to fill. YOu are talking about someone who can average 20-22 mins a night or more and usually plays PP, PK or agaisnt top lines or at least specialize in one of PK or PP. You can't toss out the terms "top 3" that lightly.

 

I could maybe see a top 4 D if he gets a bit stronger physically and in his skating. Right now I would see him struggling to maintain 20 mins or more a night. 

[MAC331]

Agreed. top 4 maybe, but 3 I dont' see it. Even having watched him only a half dozen times nothing about his game is screaming top 3 D to me. I think people forget a top 3 dman isn't easy to find, nor it is an easy role to fill. YOu are talking about someone who can average 20-22 mins a night or more and usually plays PP, PK or agaisnt top lines or at least specialize in one of PK or PP. You can't toss out the terms "top 3" that lightly.

 

I could maybe see a top 4 D if he gets a bit stronger physically and in his skating. Right now I would see him struggling to maintain 20 mins or more a night. 

I think people get carried away with all this numbering BS. It is more important in a pairing to find two players that compliment each other. A steady positionally sound Wotherspoon may be the best partner for Hamilton. Perhaps Jakipakka would learn best playing with Engelland or Nakladal.

[travel_dude]

I don't think he is a 3/4 D man. Saying this you are inferring he might replace Hamilton as 3D. For now I would say he is a 5/6 D with a little upside.

 

Don't get me wrong I like his play but #3? No .....

#4? well maybe if he has a good partner.....

 

The tendency was to say he was a replacement for Russell, who was our 3/4 last year and most of this year.  Russell was not a 3/4 in my mind; he was ok but played over his head in that role.  So, really Jokipakka is a replacement for Russell.  On our team, that puts him at a 4D.  Not ideal, but OK and he can develop into the position unless we have a guy better suited on the farm.  Spoon is closest, due to a similar game, but think Joki is a bit better already.

[420since1974]

In my limited viewings of Jokipakka, I see a solid bottom pairing D.

 

He may yet have middle pairing D potential, at least as a fill-in in case of injury, ala Engelland last season.

[cross16]

I think people get carried away with all this numbering BS. It is more important in a pairing to find two players that compliment each other. A steady positionally sound Wotherspoon may be the best partner for Hamilton. Perhaps Jakipakka would learn best playing with Engelland or Nakladal.

Sort of agree. Player has to have certain skill sets to be able to handle the minutes. You don't have to call it number 3 dman if you don't want to, but in order to play that role you do need a certain type of skill set otherwise you'd see many more guys do it.

For example I don't see Wotherspoon being able to handle 20 mins a night with Hamilton. Not a good enough puck mover to handle that responsibility

[MAC331]

Sort of agree. Player has to have certain skill sets to be able to handle the minutes. You don't have to call it number 3 dman if you don't want to, but in order to play that role you do need a certain type of skill set otherwise you'd see many more guys do it.

For example I don't see Wotherspoon being able to handle 20 mins a night with Hamilton. Not a good enough puck mover to handle that responsibility

The fact is you don't know until you push it. I can see the type of player Hamilton is and he will need a hang back partner responsible enough to cover up for him. I have seen nothing wrong with his puck moving. How many minutes has Wotherspoon been getting at the AHl level, is there stats ?

[travel_dude]

Sort of agree. Player has to have certain skill sets to be able to handle the minutes. You don't have to call it number 3 dman if you don't want to, but in order to play that role you do need a certain type of skill set otherwise you'd see many more guys do it.

For example I don't see Wotherspoon being able to handle 20 mins a night with Hamilton. Not a good enough puck mover to handle that responsibility

 

What we did see of Spoon was 15 minutes without goals being scored.  Not a lot less than Hamilton's normal 18.  Not saying they are a match, but I don't think Engelland fits there any better.  You can say that Engelland plays well, but I don't see the fit.  He doesn't make Hamilton better; in fact it forces adjustments to be made by both players.

 

I think you could see a reasonable set up like the following, with Engelland and Nakladal subbing:

 

Gio-Brodie

Joki-Hamilton

Spoon-Engelland/Nakladal

 

You could probably give a few extra minutes to Brodie-Hamilton, to lessen the load on Joki.  You could balance the time at 25/20/15.  Brodie would get about 27, Gio 25, Hamilton 20, Joki 18, Spoon 15, Engelland/Nakladal 15.

[darth_henning]

What we did see of Spoon was 15 minutes without goals being scored.  Not a lot less than Hamilton's normal 18.  Not saying they are a match, but I don't think Engelland fits there any better.  You can say that Engelland plays well, but I don't see the fit.  He doesn't make Hamilton better; in fact it forces adjustments to be made by both players.

 

I think you could see a reasonable set up like the following, with Engelland and Nakladal subbing:

 

Gio-Brodie

Joki-Hamilton

Spoon-Engelland/Nakladal

 

You could probably give a few extra minutes to Brodie-Hamilton, to lessen the load on Joki.  You could balance the time at 25/20/15.  Brodie would get about 27, Gio 25, Hamilton 20, Joki 18, Spoon 15, Engelland/Nakladal 15.

 

I don't think you necessarily need to add to Gio and Brodie's workload. 

 

You could keep them about 25 minutes

 

Hamilton at 20

 

Split Joki and Spoon at 18 each to see who steps up better and transition that player up to the full 20 over time with Nak and Eng the RDon the bottom pairing at 15 min. 

[jjgallow]

meh

[MAC331]

I'm still holding out for Hamonic until he is off the board.

[conundrumed]

I'm still holding out for Hamonic until he is off the board.

Because god knows we don't have enough salary at D.

I'm happy the 5-7 D is becoming a fight.

It's pretty much Nakladl, 'spoon and Jokipakka for the price of Engelland. All 5-8 guys I believe.

Smid and Engelland equate to 7mil for 2 5-8 guys.

Add Raymond. 3 junk spots = 1/7th of our cap.

Bollig, Stajan, there's 20% of our cap.

Do you wonder why we're 29th?

Let's throw another $8 large at rickety goaltending.

30% on milquetoast.

Why do we suck?

I didn't even mention Wideman.

What's worse, is nobody wants our junk, next year is going to be painful too. Johnny and Mony contracts will be a godsend to get this spending on junk under control, out of options.

Give your scouts free reign and cross your fingers.

That's pretty lowbrow of me, but we've got some serious issues for another year, no reason to sugar-coat it...

[jjgallow]

If he was really top 4, on a Stanley Cup contender, then, ok.  I like it.

 

 

He might be  a 5th guy on this team.    He's not going to be a top 4 in the Stanley cup playoffs.  

 

So....imho he helps a bit, but not fundamentally.

[darth_henning]

I think that its a little early to be putting a bottom 3 ceiling on any of Spoon, Kevin or Kulak. No, none of them are cup-contender top 4s right now. But none have reached their prime yet. Any could become a top 4 player. 

 

None are there yet but we need to play them to find out if they can be. 

 

 

 

Sadly I think we're out of the race for Hamonic, much though that would be fantastic. 

 

Assuming the cap is 73 Mil next year we have 18.75 mil of it (or almost 26%!!) tied up in Raymond, Bollig, Stajan, Wideman, Engellend and Smid. And that's assuming that Raymond stays buried, or its basically 20 mil. 

 

 

Assuming that Gaudreau and Monahan come in at a 14 mil total (7.5 and 6.5 respectively), that leaves us a total cap space of 12 million to: 

 

- resign Ferland (or pay replacement)

- resign Colborne (or pay replacement)

- resign Hathaway (or pay replacement)

- resign Jooris (or pay replacement)

- resign Ortio (or pay replacement)

- sign a first line RW (or draft one)

- sign a starting goaltender

 

There's no way that Hamonic fits in there unless we offload multiple of our problem contracts. 

[jjgallow]

I don't get the Hamonic thing personally...

 

Why would we want a player with issues, trade requests, and approaching his late 20's on a rebuilding team?  I'm not saying he's a lost cause or anything...but why would we go out and target him?

 

Personally, if I were dealing with the Islanders, I'd be wanting Ryan Pulock and/or Tyler Wotherspoon.

 

Pulock could potentially be Great.  Higher ceiling than Hamonic, and almost NHL-ready.

 

Tyler Wotherspoon, considerably more talented than his brother.  And how awesome would it be to have the Wotherspoon brothers in Flames jerseys?

[AlbertaBoy12]

I don't get the Hamonic thing personally...

 

Why would we want a player with issues, trade requests, and approaching his late 20's on a rebuilding team?  I'm not saying he's a lost cause or anything...but why would we go out and target him?

 

Personally, if I were dealing with the Islanders, I'd be wanting Ryan Pulock and/or Tyler Wotherspoon.

 

Pulock could potentially be Great.  Higher ceiling than Hamonic, and almost NHL-ready.

 

Tyler Wotherspoon, considerably more talented than his brother.  And how awesome would it be to have the Wotherspoon brothers in Flames jerseys?

I think you mean parker wotherspoon. I wouldnt say hamonic is approaching his late 20s, hes not that old..and he certainly doesnt have issues, all we know is that he asked for a trade to be closer to western canada. 

[conundrumed]

I think that its a little early to be putting a bottom 3 ceiling on any of Spoon, Kevin or Kulak. No, none of them are cup-contender top 4s right now. But none have reached their prime yet. Any could become a top 4 player. 

. 

Point being we spend $7mil on Smid and Engelland.

#5 dmen on a good day.

Easily replaced for a lot cheaper.

[JTech780]

I don't get the Hamonic thing personally...

Why would we want a player with issues, trade requests, and approaching his late 20's on a rebuilding team? I'm not saying he's a lost cause or anything...but why would we go out and target him?

Personally, if I were dealing with the Islanders, I'd be wanting Ryan Pulock and/or Tyler Wotherspoon.

Pulock could potentially be Great. Higher ceiling than Hamonic, and almost NHL-ready.

Tyler Wotherspoon, considerably more talented than his brother. And how awesome would it be to have the Wotherspoon brothers in Flames jerseys?

I agree Tyler Wotherspoon is better than his brother Parker, and I don't even think all that highly of Tyler.

I haven't heard anything about issues with Hamonic. In fact quite the opposite. Hamonic is 25, if that is too old to play on this we should just move one from Brodie then.

Pulock is a long to be a top 4 defenseman IMO, his skating isn't good enough.

[MAC331]

I think that its a little early to be putting a bottom 3 ceiling on any of Spoon, Kevin or Kulak. No, none of them are cup-contender top 4s right now. But none have reached their prime yet. Any could become a top 4 player. 

 

None are there yet but we need to play them to find out if they can be. 

 

 

 

Sadly I think we're out of the race for Hamonic, much though that would be fantastic. 

 

Assuming the cap is 73 Mil next year we have 18.75 mil of it (or almost 26%!!) tied up in Raymond, Bollig, Stajan, Wideman, Engellend and Smid. And that's assuming that Raymond stays buried, or its basically 20 mil. 

 

 

Assuming that Gaudreau and Monahan come in at a 14 mil total (7.5 and 6.5 respectively), that leaves us a total cap space of 12 million to: 

 

- resign Ferland (or pay replacement)

- resign Colborne (or pay replacement)

- resign Hathaway (or pay replacement)

- resign Jooris (or pay replacement)

- resign Ortio (or pay replacement)

- sign a first line RW (or draft one)

- sign a starting goaltender

 

There's no way that Hamonic fits in there unless we offload multiple of our problem contracts. 

There is no way our roster stays the same either.

[cccsberg]

I'm still holding out for Hamonic until he is off the board.

With the addition of Jokipakka and the emergence of Wotherspoon and Nakladal (assuming they are both signed) I think you can pass on Hamonic and focus more on other areas of greater need, ie Top6 wingers and goaltending. We also have multiple D coming up through the ranks, which is great for depth and trades, even if there is a glut.

[MAC331]

I think that its a little early to be putting a bottom 3 ceiling on any of Spoon, Kevin or Kulak. No, none of them are cup-contender top 4s right now. But none have reached their prime yet. Any could become a top 4 player. 

 

None are there yet but we need to play them to find out if they can be. 

 

 

 

Sadly I think we're out of the race for Hamonic, much though that would be fantastic. 

 

Assuming the cap is 73 Mil next year we have 18.75 mil of it (or almost 26%!!) tied up in Raymond, Bollig, Stajan, Wideman, Engellend and Smid. And that's assuming that Raymond stays buried, or its basically 20 mil. 

 

 

Assuming that Gaudreau and Monahan come in at a 14 mil total (7.5 and 6.5 respectively), that leaves us a total cap space of 12 million to: 

 

- resign Ferland (or pay replacement)

- resign Colborne (or pay replacement)

- resign Hathaway (or pay replacement)

- resign Jooris (or pay replacement)

- resign Ortio (or pay replacement)

- sign a first line RW (or draft one)

- sign a starting goaltender

 

There's no way that Hamonic fits in there unless we offload multiple of our problem contracts. 

I don't think it is a good practice to assume anything when all kinds of movements can take place.

[420since1974]

I think that Calgary can do fine without Hamonic, the 4th - 7th D are value contracts on many teams.

My feeling is that one of Jokipakka, Kulak, or Wotherspoon can fill that 2nd pairing LD position next season.

 

Unless several of the "unfavorable" contracts can be moved without retaining salary, I think that there is only enough Cap Space next season for a first line RW or a # 1 goalie, but not both.

 

Personally, I'd go for a Goalie first.

The Flames look to have good odds of getting one of the first 3 draft picks this year, IMO any of them could fit in at RW.

 

In 2017/2018, there should be enough Cap Space to fill most/all of Calgary's needs.

[MAC331]

With the addition of Jokipakka and the emergence of Wotherspoon and Nakladal (assuming they are both signed) I think you can pass on Hamonic and focus more on other areas of greater need, ie Top6 wingers and goaltending. We also have multiple D coming up through the ranks, which is great for depth and trades, even if there is a glut.

Always a great position to be in with tradeable assets. GM's should be building the best roster possible if it means trading someone less talented does it matter ? If the money is the perceived problem then of course don't sign the player. Many of these farm players may never see the ice as Flames.

[travel_dude]

Always a great position to be in with tradeable assets. GM's should be building the best roster possible if it means trading someone less talented does it matter ? If the money is the perceived problem then of course don't sign the player. Many of these farm players may never see the ice as Flames.

 

As much as I would like to have Hamonic, the cost to get may be too high.  What would you be willing to trade that gets a player of that calibre?  What would Winnipeg give up?  I think they have a lot more movable assets that are worth more than our movable assets.

 

We could trade Hamilton, but that doesn't make any sense.  I don't see any other things they would be interested in.  I doubt Backlund would get it done.