Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

[JTech780]

 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

I like this move.  He will have a leg up on others trying to make the NHL roster.  Well, at least the AHL guys.

As it stands today, Leivo, Simon and Norstrom are 11, 12 and 13th of available forwards.

Rinaldo is a candidate for 14th F, but I'm not a fan.

Putting him in the lineup is committing one forward to 5 minutes in a game.

 

I am hopeful that the AHL is available, since having these guys idle is not a good thing.

It's one thing to alternate Simon or Nordstrom, or use Rinaldo instead.

Would rather not have Gawdin on the roster if he's not playing.

[JTech780]

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/10/30/liiga-report-october-2020/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

Finnish reporter saying that Valimaki is the best player in the Liiga this season.

[JTech780]

He is too good for that league.

[JTech780]

 

[rickross]

Might be time to start talking about where this team will draft this year and how the expansion draft will impact it. Flames are kinda stuck in nowhere land, no true superstars and no real saviours incoming from the pipeline. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

Might be time to start talking about where this team will draft this year and how the expansion draft will impact it. Flames are kinda stuck in nowhere land, no true superstars and no real saviours incoming from the pipeline. 

 

Nothing a quick coach firing can't solve, surely they have a few more of those coming this year?

 

 

Ok 2021 draft:

 

https://dobberprospects.com/player/jesper-wallstedt/

 

Please.

[rickross]

24 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Nothing a quick coach firing can't solve, surely they have a few more of those coming this year?

 

 

Ok 2021 draft:

 

https://dobberprospects.com/player/jesper-wallstedt/

 

Please.

Yet another Swede to complete our push as the Swedish National team! Sutter is this teams coach and our last chance before we’re looking at another rebuild/major retooling. It falls on Treliving but looking back trading all those high picks for Dougie Hamilton and Hamonic for example could have really helped this teams future today. Other than that we pretty have a prospect pool of forwards projecting as 3rd and 4th liners, maybe some 2nd liners in Phillips, Peletier or even Zary some day. Those are big ifs though. Do we go back to building from the back end and start drafting high end D men ? We can’t score right now , target some firepower? There’s just this never ending litany of holes to fill on this team. Remember when we were a 1st line RW away from contending lol ?? We don’t even have a 1st line right now 

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, rickross said:

Yet another Swede to complete our push as the Swedish National team! Sutter is this teams coach and our last chance before we’re looking at another rebuild/major retooling. It falls on Treliving but looking back trading all those high picks for Dougie Hamilton and Hamonic for example could have really helped this teams future today. Other than that we pretty have a prospect pool of forwards projecting as 3rd and 4th liners, maybe some 2nd liners in Phillips, Peletier or even Zary some day. Those are big ifs though. Do we go back to building from the back end and start drafting high end D men ? We can’t score right now , target some firepower? There’s just this never ending litany of holes to fill on this team. Remember when we were a 1st line RW away from contending lol ?? We don’t even have a 1st line right now 

 

Sure yeah Sutter will save us of course.   I do actually think highly of Sutter.  Nevertheless when that mania's over I expect the rebuild will be discussion topic #1.

 

Yeah I am for starting from the back, goaltending preferably or D.   This draft is Sooo strong in both.

 

IMHO, you don't take into consideration anyone on your team over the age of 23.  They will be irrelevant in the rebuild.   So we don't need to worry about filling current holes and if anything, the one piece we have is Chukky.   Maybe maybe maybe Rasmus.

 

D and G take longer to develop so the Sooner you figure those positions out the shorter your rebuild can be.  Also they are really Crucial to your core and the team should be built around them.     They can't help you initially.  They just can't.   So you're going to get a few years of high picks in there to address your forwards.

 

Jesper would solidify our goaltending for 15 years if he comes anywhere close to his projections.  The defencemen in this draft as also as good as you can get.

 

....

 

For those who insist on a "fast" rebuild.....  We could try and do something like cutting years off by acquiring players like Dahlin.  Oftentimes great defencemen's value drops off JUST before they hit their prime.   But this is not a straightforward our likely outcome.

[ABC923]

I'd be interested in Dahlin. Buffalo's a mess and he's regressing, but it's probably got more to do with the situation than anything else.  Not sure how much of a fire sale Buffalo will have this offseason (or how much of a fire sale we will have for that matter), but if they are desperate maybe we can snag Dahlin and a draft pick for Monahan or Gaudreau.

[rickross]

On 3/20/2021 at 10:58 PM, ABC923 said:

I'd be interested in Dahlin. Buffalo's a mess and he's regressing, but it's probably got more to do with the situation than anything else.  Not sure how much of a fire sale Buffalo will have this offseason (or how much of a fire sale we will have for that matter), but if they are desperate maybe we can snag Dahlin and a draft pick for Monahan or Gaudreau.

Not sure where the Sabres go from here , how many fire sales can u have??that franchise can’t afford yet another rebuild, players and coaches go there to die. Kruger couldn’t even put a dent in changing the culture there and he’s one positive guy. Dahlin is interesting but at what price indeed? 
 

Flames already tried a fast rebuild and it didn’t work. We traded away a lot of futures for players that aren’t even on this team anymore. We got a coach , goalie , some young D and our original core on expiring contracts. This upcoming expansion draft is going to be interesting, especially if we don’t make the playoffs..which is sadly looking more and more likely this year 

[travel_dude]

With Bennett gone, so ends the tragic story of the 2014 NHL Draft for Calgary.

Only Bennett ever played a single NHL game out of 6 picks.

Such is life.

Last draft before BT took over.

[cross16]

52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

With Bennett gone, so ends the tragic story of the 2014 NHL Draft for Calgary.

Only Bennett ever played a single NHL game out of 6 picks.

Such is life.

Last draft before BT took over.

 

It doesn't get talked about enough IMO, but the start of the Flames rebuild was a disaster. Blew the trades of the assets they had at the time (Iginla, Jbow) and then blew the first  2 drafts, is just a recipe for disaster when you have an organization that was depleted of assets to begin with. Now you've got 1 NHL player left from those 2 drafts, they have 2 from 2015 alone. 

 

Those players should be in their prime helping the team and not having those assets is also why the Flames constantly have had to shed picks the other way.  Good way to keep spinning your wheels as an organization. 

 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

It doesn't get talked about enough IMO, but the start of the Flames rebuild was a disaster. Blew the trades of the assets they had at the time (Iginla, Jbow) and then blew the first  2 drafts, is just a recipe for disaster when you have an organization that was depleted of assets to begin with. Now you've got 1 NHL player left from those 2 drafts, they have 2 from 2015 alone. 

 

Those players should be in their prime helping the team and not having those assets is also why the Flames constantly have had to shed picks the other way.  Good way to keep spinning your wheels as an organization. 

 

 

I've tried to forget the drafts and trade prior to 2014.

2013 was two 1sts that were complete misses; perhaps Lkimchuk was just a player that could never trasition from AHL to NHL.

2012 draft was a mess, with the exception of a Russian D-man that never came over.

The JBow and Igy trade were the worst possible messes and the ROR almost waiver situaltion would have completely derailed the rebuild.

The NHL may not have enforced it, but we will never know.

 

I'll give credit where due, the one good pick was Gaudreau.  Kucherov was supposedly on our list, but we opt for Wotherspoon directly before he was picked?

The three years of drafting and we have 1 player plus Andersson, who was a traded for Baertschi pick (done by BT).

[sak22]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

It doesn't get talked about enough IMO, but the start of the Flames rebuild was a disaster. Blew the trades of the assets they had at the time (Iginla, Jbow) and then blew the first  2 drafts, is just a recipe for disaster when you have an organization that was depleted of assets to begin with. Now you've got 1 NHL player left from those 2 drafts, they have 2 from 2015 alone. 

 

Those players should be in their prime helping the team and not having those assets is also why the Flames constantly have had to shed picks the other way.  Good way to keep spinning your wheels as an organization. 

 

Yes, but has never been in style to blame previous regimes for the current regimes failures.  Sad reality, many GM's win cups off the finishing up the work of others - Feaster, Shero, Rutherford, or step into the role at the right time like Bowman, MacLellan and Brisebois.  Most failed GM's walk into a bad situation with the expectation of a quick turnaround.

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Yes, but has never been in style to blame previous regimes for the current regimes failures.  Sad reality, many GM's win cups off the finishing up the work of others - Feaster, Shero, Rutherford, or step into the role at the right time like Bowman, MacLellan and Brisebois.  Most failed GM's walk into a bad situation with the expectation of a quick turnaround.

 

Agreed, I don't think it's well understood how detrimental it can be to making gM changes. It can take years before change can happen. That's not me saying you keep BT to avoid that change, it's just a general comment around the league. Coaches can be swapped out pretty easily, I don't fee that way about GMs. 

 

I don't even blame GMs, it's more of an organization failure to me. Jay Feaster should never have been hired in the first place, never been given the go ahead to rebuild and the organization should never have pushed for a quick end to the rebuild. It's an organizational flaw for me. 

[rickross]

Adam Fox. Foxed us over. 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, rickross said:

Adam Fox. Foxed us over. 

 

For Fox sakes! I still wish we traded him for a 2nd on his own, or whatever the NYR spent on him... 

[cross16]

Connor Mackey off to the Worlds for Team USA. That's pretty cool.

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[rickross]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

6th best in the league? I just don’t see it, outside of Coronato do we have any true blue chip prospects? Last 2 drafts have been pretty decent hauls for the Flames but nothing groundbreaking IMO. 

[cross16]

Zary, Valimaki, and Coronato are what show up as potential starts in that model and drive the Flames higher. They also have a lot of depth that again show up well as expected NHLers I’m that model. 
 

6 is high for me too, that’s just a model that looks at projecting probabilities for nhlers based on their production in different leagues. However I do think the Flames are in the top half of the league with their prospect pool. It’s much deeper than fans give them credit for imo 

[kehatch]

The Flames had a couple of players take step a step forward last season, signed Mackay, had a strong 21 draft, and didn't really see anyone depart / take a step back / etc. 

 

It was a short season so I take it for what it is. But guys like Phillips, Mackay, Zary, Wolf, Coronato, etc are worth getting excited for. I also think we have a few guys like Ruzika, Pelletier, Poirier, etc who have a really good chance of playing. 

[sak22]

 

I'm not posting this to boast about Calgary's drafting over the past 30 years, this just doesn't show that they are as bad as some make them out to be.  To note this doesn't include goalies and the criteria is 0.7P/g for forwards and 0.45P/g for defensemen.  I believe the Flames picks were Stillman, Svehla, Phaneuf, Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and Fox.  So it is a little disappointing that Svehla and Fox never played a game for the Flames and Stillman only made the list after being more productive after leaving the Flames, things do even out a little, the Flames wound up with Dallas' only star pick in the '90's, and Elias Lindholm's Flames production would put him on the list for Carolina.  Overall it isn't that bad considering only 1 top 5 pick, when you look at other teams near the bottom of the list who have spent more time picking in the top 5.

 

[conundrumed]

Pulling Lindy and Hanifin out of Carolina for Hammy, a decrepit Ferland and a "no"-fuscktard Fox was a great move.

They had Aho coming in and were rich on D. They could have kept Peters though.And Ryan.