robrob1974 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 He has a lot of chemistry with Horvat. If they continue to gel then it can be a bad deal on our part. But I guess you never know and he would've had that opportunity here. He is 4th on their team in goal scoring now. I hope he keeps it up. I liked the kid and felt he got a raw deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Regardless if he suddenly turns it around or not, im happy with the trade the flames made as really it helped us get hamilton. At the end of the day its still a win for us, congratulations to the nucks if he works out for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Worth pointing out so people don't forget, Sven asked for a trade and told the flames he would not re sign. Flames still had him in their plans and with the inconsistencies and struggle of their top 6, it's very likely he would have got a very good shot and probably the same opportunities he's getting in Van. Either way I think it worked it fine for both. I like Amdersson as much as I liked Baertschi as a prospect and while I think he would have gotten the same opportunities this year in Calgary I think his attitude would have prevented it. Both sides needed a fresh start, got it and got equal return IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Worth pointing out so people don't forget, Sven asked for a trade and told the flames he would not re sign. Flames still had him in their plans and with the inconsistencies and struggle of their top 6, it's very likely he would have got a very good shot and probably the same opportunities he's getting in Van. Either way I think it worked it fine for both. I like Amdersson as much as I liked Baertschi as a prospect and while I think he would have gotten the same opportunities this year in Calgary I think his attitude would have prevented it. Both sides needed a fresh start, got it and got equal return IMO. It was an equal value trade (or appears that way now). No doubt. Just because it was an equal value trade, doesn't make it a good trade. Selling low and buying high rarely is a good trade, equal value or not. This is a player who, for two years with the Flames, could have been traded for a top 5 pick. And, may be worth that again soon. Baertschi is helping Vancouver to win games. Right now. In our division. And may possibly do so for the next 10 years. Too early to say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 It was an equal value trade (or appears that way now). No doubt. Just because it was an equal value trade, doesn't make it a good trade. Selling low and buying high rarely is a good trade, equal value or not. This is a player who, for two years with the Flames, could have been traded for a top 5 pick. And, may be worth that again soon. Baertschi is helping Vancouver to win games. Right now. In our division. And may possibly do so for the next 10 years. Too early to say for sure. Well Vancouver has the least amount of wins in Western Conference so he isn't helping them win that many games. I doubt we would have ever gotten a top 5 pick for Baertschi and certainly not after he asked for a trade and said he wouldn't re-sign with Calgary. At that point you have to take the best offer you can get for a player that wasn't going to play for you anyways. At the end of the day Baerstchi still has a long ways to go to be half the player he hyped up to be. I still don't see him as a regular top 6 player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 It was an equal value trade (or appears that way now). No doubt. Just because it was an equal value trade, doesn't make it a good trade. Selling low and buying high rarely is a good trade, equal value or not. This is a player who, for two years with the Flames, could have been traded for a top 5 pick. And, may be worth that again soon. Baertschi is helping Vancouver to win games. Right now. In our division. And may possibly do so for the next 10 years. Too early to say for sure. They didn't have a choice, Baertschi was not going to re sign and he forced their hand. You rarely win those trades i agree but flames did well to recoup value. There is no way at any point the flames could have got a top 5 pick for Baertschi. Drouin probably won't even get that and he actually was a top 5 pick and a much better prospect than Baertschi ever was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 They didn't have a choice, Baertschi was not going to re sign and he forced their hand. You rarely win those trades i agree but flames did well to recoup value. There is no way at any point the flames could have got a top 5 pick for Baertschi. Drouin probably won't even get that and he actually was a top 5 pick and a much better prospect than Baertschi ever was There was a time, for a period over a year, where the only two players in the 2011 draft who were NHL ready, were RNH, and Baertschi. Had the same draft been done over in 2012, it would have been RNH #1, Baertschi #2. By 2014, it was a different story. But that story isn't over yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Yes Baertschi demanded a trade as he wasn't going to re-sign, but there's a reason. He was handled poorly and unfairly and he knew. He saw preferential treatment among some rookies and leeway given to them and the same leeway not to him. I wouldn't sign with the flames either after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 There was a time, for a period over a year, where the only two players in the 2011 draft who were NHL ready, were RNH, and Baertschi. Had the same draft been done over in 2012, it would have been RNH #1, Baertschi #2. By 2014, it was a different story. But that story isn't over yet. Which is why evaluating a draft 1 year later is a useless endeavour. Plus you are forgetting landeskog who won the Calder that year. A year out its not very likely at all that teams are going to change their minds of 10 different picks in front of Baertschi and even to this day I think maybe one 1 or 2 would change it. Been a pretty decent draft in the top 10 there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Yes Baertschi demanded a trade as he wasn't going to re-sign, but there's a reason. He was handled poorly and unfairly and he knew. He saw preferential treatment among some rookies and leeway given to them and the same leeway not to him. I wouldn't sign with the flames either after that. For sure, but by a previous regime and also early in his career. He had 2 full seasons where he was given a clean slate and opportunity and failed to capitalize. Also remember when Vancouver acquired him they sent him right down to the AHL and he was also a healthy scratch more than once early in the season. Vancouver didn't really treat him any differently than the flames did once Treliving was in and Feaster was out. Baertschi needed to mature more and perhaps has has done that in Van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 In 61 games with the Flames, Baertschi had 8 goals and 20 assists... Of that total, his last season generated 0 goals and 4 assists in 15 games... So he also gets some credit for writing how his story turned out in his time with the Flames... I was a supporter of Baertschi, but it is was it is when you look back on his career in Calgary... His recent success tells me that perhaps he has an improved attitude with his approach to the game... For the most part, no one disputed his talent or potential while he was a Flame, it was more frustration that he didn't always seem to be taking advantage of that talent... That said, in a re-draft, there is not a snowballs chance in hell that he would have been drafted top 5 at any point in time, nor would he have ever been worth a top 5 pick in return on a trade from any GM that wanted to keep their job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 short memories, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 The kid asked for a trade so good riddance. Flames had a chance to take a long look at him, he obviously didn't feel he had to earn his spot and it should be given to him just cuz he's a 1st Rd pick. He's not magically going to start dominating the league , I'm sure he'll find a groove with the Canucks but I don't worry about losing him at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Baertschi has his career back on track but that said, it's not the same track he was originally on when he was first drafted. Still, looks like he can salvage a career in the likes of a Scottie Upshall, Val Bure, or Ray Whitney. I think we'll see that kind of impact. At prime, he will score 30-goals but will normally hang around the 20-goals/55-points level. He may even peak with a 70-point season depending on linemates and luck. In a re-draft, there's no way he will be top 5. I've still got, 1. Johnny Gaudreau 2. RNH 3. Gabriel Landeskog 4. Dougie Hamilton 5. Brandon Saad 6. John Gibson 7. Jonas Brodin 8. Mark Scheifele 9. Nikita Kucherov 10. Jonathan Huberdeau I'll grant you that Sven Baertschi has played his way into the same conversation as Sean Couturier, Mika Zibanejad, Adam Larsson, Ryan Strome, etc. But that's about it. This is still a group of young NHLers who have yet to prove their full worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Baertschi has his career back on track but that said, it's not the same track he was originally on when he was first drafted. Still, looks like he can salvage a career in the likes of a Scottie Upshall, Val Bure, or Ray Whitney. I think we'll see that kind of impact. At prime, he will score 30-goals but will normally hang around the 20-goals/55-points level. He may even peak with a 70-point season depending on linemates and luck. In a re-draft, there's no way he will be top 5. I've still got, 1. Johnny Gaudreau 2. RNH 3. Gabriel Landeskog 4. Dougie Hamilton 5. Brandon Saad 6. John Gibson 7. Jonas Brodin 8. Mark Scheifele 9. Nikita Kucherov 10. Jonathan Huberdeau I'll grant you that Sven Baertschi has played his way into the same conversation as Sean Couturier, Mika Zibanejad, Adam Larsson, Ryan Strome, etc. But that's about it. This is still a group of young NHLers who have yet to prove their full worth. See that's where I thought he was going to be when he was drafted and through all the hype, a 20 goal/55 point player, I thought of him as a Hudler type player, and put up the same type of production. Now I don't see him as putting up those type numbers, he's too inconsistent, I see him as 35-45 point player in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 In 61 games with the Flames, Baertschi had 8 goals and 20 assists... Of that total, his last season generated 0 goals and 4 assists in 15 games... So he also gets some credit for writing how his story turned out in his time with the Flames... I was a supporter of Baertschi, but it is was it is when you look back on his career in Calgary... His recent success tells me that perhaps he has an improved attitude with his approach to the game... For the most part, no one disputed his talent or potential while he was a Flame, it was more frustration that he didn't always seem to be taking advantage of that talent... That said, in a re-draft, there is not a snowballs chance in hell that he would have been drafted top 5 at any point in time, nor would he have ever been worth a top 5 pick in return on a trade from any GM that wanted to keep their job... I was always a supporter of Baertschi. I felt he got put on trial in the public eye. Fans wanted him to play, BB called his game out, BH scratched him or played him on RW at times. He was demoted and left on the farm. There was animosity between player, coach and media asking about him. BH can be very stubborn. That ship has sailed. BH takes a different approach with rookies now. Last year was the first time that mistakes were allowed without a huge fear of being scratched. Baertschi can be a productive LW on some teams. He will go through stretches where he gets points and then disappear. He was always a more-assists player than goal scorer. His season will follow Horvat's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Anyone who questions the Sven trade would need to roll the clock back and pass on the Hamilton acquisition as well. If that is your belief then carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Anyone who questions the Sven trade would need to roll the clock back and pass on the Hamilton acquisition as well. If that is your belief then carry on. While the Canucks 2nd round pick we received for Baertschi wasn't used in the trade for Hamilton (it was used to draft Rasmus Andersson), having that pick allowed us to trade off 2 2nd round picks and still have one left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 While the Canucks 2nd round pick we received for Baertschi wasn't used in the trade for Hamilton (it was used to draft Rasmus Andersson), having that pick allowed us to trade off 2 2nd round picks and still have one left. Do you think we would have taken Lauzon over Anderson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Do you think we would have taken Lauzon over Anderson? I have no clue, I suspect we would have still taken Andersson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I was never as big on Baertschi as many on this board & sure didn't regret seeing him traded. A lot of people figured the facy he was taken in the 1st 1/2 of the draft made him a sure fire top 6 immediately. Most of those taken ahead of him were brought along @ a slower rate/stayed in junior to mature & are better players for it. As to the fact he was #13 in the entry draft we now have the #9 pick from that draft & to me Hamilton is head & shoulders above anything Sven will achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I was never as big on Baertschi as many on this board & sure didn't regret seeing him traded. A lot of people figured the facy he was taken in the 1st 1/2 of the draft made him a sure fire top 6 immediately. Most of those taken ahead of him were brought along @ a slower rate/stayed in junior to mature & are better players for it. As to the fact he was #13 in the entry draft we now have the #9 pick from that draft & to me Hamilton is head & shoulders above anything Sven will achieve. I agree that the way the organization handled him was off. He shouldn't have got NHL action so soon and been played through the minors from the start of his pro career. He needed to learn how to be a pro. He needed to have less put on his shoulders as well. Slowly was the way to go. He might catch up to his development? Hamilton is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I didn't like the way the organization handled him either but for a different reason. I felt since the playoffs were realistically unattainable during his time with the Flames, they should've just played Baertschi regularly and lived with his growing pains. If he sucked, then who cares, just keep believing in him even if we lose. I know I know, this is not the "try league". It's the "get it done league." But we weren't going to make the playoffs so we should've just gave Baertschi ice time and develop him in the NHL rather than AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I was never as big on Baertschi as many on this board & sure didn't regret seeing him traded. A lot of people figured the facy he was taken in the 1st 1/2 of the draft made him a sure fire top 6 immediately. Most of those taken ahead of him were brought along @ a slower rate/stayed in junior to mature & are better players for it. As to the fact he was #13 in the entry draft we now have the #9 pick from that draft & to me Hamilton is head & shoulders above anything Sven will achieve. The worst thing that happened was the emergency callup. That was a big PR mistake at the very least. It gave the player and fans the thought that he was capable of playing in the NHL. Without that happening (and Feaster pumping him up), we would likely have seen him get called up for injury replacement, assuming he earned it. Other players earned their spots out of camp; Johnny, Monahan, Jooris.... Players get it in their heads that they must be playing in the NHL at a certain point. If they feel they are getting the shaft, the new generation seems to think it's OK to ask for a trade. Some have gone on to good careers (Turris), while others have not shown anything to rate them anything more than a player needing work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I feel its also intersting to point out that while Baerschi has mor goals then he ever did with us (and is reaching his season record in assists soon), he's not really improved any since he played here. If you adjust his totals for an 82 game season: Flames 2011-2012 - 49 G 00 A 49 P (based on 3 goals in 5 games) 2012-2013 - 12 G 29 A 41 P (20 games) 2013-2014 - 07 G 28 A 35 P (26 games) 2014-2015 - 00 G 22 A 22 P (15 games) Canucks 2014-2015 - 55 G 00 A 55 P (based on 2 goals in 3 games) 2015-2016 - 17 G 17 A 34 P (34 games) When you look at the 4 seasons where there's something of a realistic sample size (15-35 games), you find that he's doing the exact same with Vancouver as he averaged here. Calgary average of 33 points on an 82 game season (41, 35 and 22), and in Vancouver would get 34 points on an 82 game season. So...exactly the same player with a few more goals and a few fewer assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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