Baertschi

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

equally as lame as coming here every several months to post what he has done in the last handfull of games. 

 

maybe. we can call it a draw.

 

what would be super cool though, is if we had an arguement about who was being more lame.  we could even start a new thread.

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

maybe. we can call it a draw.

 

what would be super cool though, is if we had an arguement about who was being more lame.  we could even start a new thread.

 

With a poll. Let the fans decide JJ. Can't be all about us 

[jjgallow]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

With a poll. Let the fans decide JJ. Can't be all about us 

 

We have too many fans...it would break the internet

[jjgallow]

On 2016-01-10 at 1:58 PM, JTech780 said:

For now, he will go on another cold streak and earn his way back down the lineup. That's the type of player he is.

 

So it's official, Baertschi is a force, and an impact player with the Canucks.  Still at the young age of 24, still heading into his prime.

 

It won't be official for a long time who won this trade (essentially for Rasmus Andersson).   But, it no longer hinges on the validity of the trade.   It hinges on how well the Flames drafted, and how Rasmus Andersson turns out.

 

IMHO, the trade itself is now officially a poor one, even if the Flames "win".    Because there were much better ways of acquiring that 2nd round pick.

 

I am glad the Flames got something for him, but it is clear that he was always worth more than a 2nd pick, and his stock keeps rising.   He would look very good in a Flames uniform now.

 

Many will say "the past is in the past".    In my experience, that has rarely been the case.  I have seen more of the past repeating itself.   The only way the past can stay is in the past, is if we learn from it.

 

I don't write this to dis the current Flames.   I think it's important for three reasons.

1.   To illustrate the consequences of having an organization that is not friendly to prospect development

2.   To illustrate the consequences of rushing players into the NHL without development

3.   To illustrate why you don't trade potential impact/elite players to teams within the same division.  In particular, Vancouver.  

              As a fan of Baertschi, this is very annoying to me.   

             The more people put him down and point fingers at him, the more a fan I am. 

             Because he's proving them all worng more every day.  

             And it is extremely frustrating that he's doing it with Vancouver.

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

So it's official, Baertschi is a force, and an impact player with the Canucks.  Still at the young age of 24, still heading into his prime.

 

It won't be official for a long time who won this trade (essentially for Rasmus Andersson).   But, it no longer hinges on the validity of the trade.   It hinges on how well the Flames drafted, and how Rasmus Andersson turns out.

 

IMHO, the trade itself is now officially a poor one, even if the Flames "win".    Because there were much better ways of acquiring that 2nd round pick.

 

I am glad the Flames got something for him, but it is clear that he was always worth more than a 2nd pick, and his stock keeps rising.   He would look very good in a Flames uniform now.

 

Many will say "the past is in the past".    In my experience, that has rarely been the case.  I have seen more of the past repeating itself.   The only way the past can stay is in the past, is if we learn from it.

 

I don't write this to dis the current Flames.   I think it's important for three reasons.

1.   To illustrate the consequences of having an organization that is not friendly to prospect development

2.   To illustrate the consequences of rushing players into the NHL without development

3.   To illustrate why you don't trade potential impact/elite players to teams within the same division.  In particular, Vancouver.  

              As a fan of Baertschi, this is very annoying to me.   

             The more people put him down and point fingers at him, the more a fan I am. 

             Because he's proving them all worng more every day.  

             And it is extremely frustrating that he's doing it with Vancouver.

 

 

I agree mostly. The team botched his development. I wanted to keep him. Instead of putting the player down in the media, why not do it behind closed doors and explain why he is going to the AHL. They brought him in early and he showed his skill early. Ottawa did the same with Lazar and could possibly pay in the long run for it. 

 

IS Baertschi a 1st liner on our team? Maybe? But we can't deny we could have used his skill in the top9 to play with either Monahan and Gaudreau or with Bennett on the third line. Tkachuk is exactly where I'd want him, but that line could have used Baertschi last year. Even if he only scores up to 20 per year, it's extra offence most teams need. 

 

 

[CheersMan]

SB must have scored last night?  Yup, just checked, he has now scored in two of his last 15 games.

Is that the same SB who scored 5 time in 3 seasons with the Flames?  The same SB that would hang his head and pout when things weren’t going his way?  The same SB who QUIT on the Flames then REQEUSTED a trade?  If it is the same SB then I wish him all the best.  He was a good kid but couldn’t cut it as a Flame.

 

[robrob74]

35 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

SB must have scored last night?  Yup, just checked, he has now scored in two of his last 15 games.

Is that the same SB who scored 5 time in 3 seasons with the Flames?  The same SB that would hang his head and pout when things weren’t going his way?  The same SB who QUIT on the Flames then REQEUSTED a trade?  If it is the same SB then I wish him all the best.  He was a good kid but couldn’t cut it as a Flame.

 

 

The Flames quit on him too. He's a kid, young and maturing. I wish we kept Ward, at least as an assistant as he seemed to know the psychology of the prospects. He was younger than his age suggested. 

[jjgallow]

39 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

SB must have scored last night?  Yup, just checked, he has now scored in two of his last 15 games.

Is that the same SB who scored 5 time in 3 seasons with the Flames?  The same SB that would hang his head and pout when things weren’t going his way?  The same SB who QUIT on the Flames then REQEUSTED a trade?  If it is the same SB then I wish him all the best.  He was a good kid but couldn’t cut it as a Flame.

 

 

Just my opinion, but I don't think fighting a losing arguement doesn't make you more of a Flames fan.

 

Better to admit past mistakes and learn from them.   

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

The Flames quit on him too. He's a kid, young and maturing. I wish we kept Ward, at least as an assistant as he seemed to know the psychology of the prospects. He was younger than his age suggested. 

 

Agreed, and I also agree about Ward.   Strange though, he seemed to flounder afterwards.  Hard to say if the Flames knew something we didn't.  Either way, those are the kinds of people this organisation needed and needs.

[Flyerfan52]

Baertschi wasn't cutting it as a Flame & had let them know he'd be happier traded. He was hence moved in what is sometimes called a "Mercy Trade". Many view the trade of Lazar in the same light.

With Baertschi we traded a guy who now has 60 points in 124 games (not shabby but not a superstar). Those points/games were spread over 3 seasons. Maybe he's snake bit as he's sustained a laundry list of injuries while with the Orca including 2 concussions. We received a 2nd rounder in a good draft but that 52nd O/A was a needed piece in landing Dougie Hamilton.

Contrast that with the return on former 1st O/A Yakupov. A prospect that hasn't even had a cup of coffee in the NHL after 4 years & a 3rd rounder in this years weak draft.

 

I'm content letting Sven score occasionally for Vancouver knowing that we dumped what looked like a whinner & used the return as part of the Hamilton deal.

No regrets.

 

[jjgallow]

29 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'm content letting Sven score occasionally for Vancouver knowing that we dumped what looked like a whinner & used the return as part of the Hamilton deal.

 

 

we did?  I thought it was Rasmus.   Either way, if they were only one position apart, I don't see how it was essential to the Hamilton trade, and Rasmus.  One maybe, but not both.  So, Rasmus..

[Flyerfan52]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

we did?

Oops. the 2nd pick we sent to Boston was the take from Glencross. Calgary made many moves involving those 2nds. 2 to Boston but still made 2 picks with other peoples picks. There was a lot of jockeying for draft spots that year.

We used the Orca pick on Rasmus Andersson who is looked good in Barrie & is getting his 1st taste of pro in Stockton. This 1 looks to being groomed the right way. It sounds like the expectation is 3-5 D-man & IMO a 2nd pairing RD with grit > a 2nd/3rd line winger. With Rasmus we\ll know in the future but @ the time of the trade we knew Baer wasn't front line material.

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, Flyerfan52 said:

We used the Orca pick on Rasmus Andersson who is looked good in Barrie & is getting his 1st taste of pro in Stockton. This 1 looks to being groomed the right way. It sounds like the expectation is 3-5 D-man & IMO a 2nd pairing RD with grit > a 2nd/3rd line winger. With Rasmus we\ll know in the future but @ the time of the trade we knew Baer wasn't front line material.

 

ok cool, that's what i thought but I easily forget that stuff.   And I agree, he looks good.    Not Hamilton good of course.   Flames Could win this trade.   Say, if Baertschi has more concussions, and Rasmus exceeds expectations.   

 

But it's looking less likely.   

 

I feel the same way about Whiners as you do.   The difference being, I don't think that's something we can determine as fans.   Do we have any way of knowing that?  

 

Also, if we traded him because of his attitude....   how did we miss that when we drafted him?   And, why didn't we trade him when we first noticed it, and he was worth a top 10 pick?   Because for some time, he was.

 

At the end of the day:  Yes, we can move on.   No, I don't think we can say this was handled well.  I do think there are things to be learned from it.

[Carty]

5 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Is that the same SB who scored 5 time in 3 seasons with the Flames?  The same SB that would hang his head and pout when things weren’t going his way?  The same SB who QUIT on the Flames then REQEUSTED a trade?

 

Maybe the reason Baertschi is doing better with the Nucks is because they have a whiner culture on that team, so he fits right in...

[DirtyDeeds]

5 hours ago, CheersMan said:

SB must have scored last night?  Yup, just checked, he has now scored in two of his last 15 games.

Is that the same SB who scored 5 time in 3 seasons with the Flames?  The same SB that would hang his head and pout when things weren’t going his way?  The same SB who QUIT on the Flames then REQEUSTED a trade?  If it is the same SB then I wish him all the best.  He was a good kid but couldn’t cut it as a Flame.

 

We have to be careful about using initials on these forums. SB=Sven Baertschi also could be mistaken for SB=Sam Bennett.

[Carty]

5 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

We have to be careful about using initials on these forums. SB=Sven Baertschi also could be mistaken for SB=Sam Bennett.

 

If Bennett only scored 5 goals in 3 seasons, we would have to trade him to the Nucks...   

[DirtyDeeds]

2 minutes ago, Carty said:

 

If Bennett only scored 5 goals in 3 seasons, we would have to trade him to the Nucks...   

Not sure they have anyone I would want.. I do like Bo Horvat though.. Not sure he would be a good trade for Sam B. I'll be patient a few more years for Sam.. I think he will work things out.

 

[CheersMan]

Some good points here and some harmless fun. Looking at todays lineup, I don't see where Baertschi (hate looking up that spelling) would fit in or make us better. I think he looks better in the Nucks top 9 instead of ours.

[Carty]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I'll be patient a few more years for Sam.. I think he will work things out.

 

Same here...   Bennett is already a player I want to see stay with the team, and he's just getting started...

[Carty]

55 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I don't see where Baertschi (hate looking up that spelling) would fit in or make us better. I think he looks better in the Nucks top 9 instead of ours.

 

The way the Nucks are playing, there are nights when Kenny Agostino would look better on the Nucks top 9 than some of their players...

[CheersMan]

4 minutes ago, Carty said:

 

The way the Nucks are playing, there are nights when Kenny Agostino would look better on the Nucks top 9 than some of their players...

 

Now there is a deal we got fleeced on.  Don't think Jay had much choice though.

[Flyerfan52]

21 minutes ago, Carty said:

 

Same here...   Bennett is already a player I want to see stay with the team, and he's just getting started...

Good article on Scheifele on SN & how his game keeps growing. He started going to Gary Roberts school & they helped a lot including using his DNA to design the best diet for him. No detail omitted but it takes a heck of a lot of dedication & a determination to be the best player he can.

More recently he's also started working with Adam Oates in the off season. This kid is determined to be 1 of the best & we see a better player every year.

 

I mention this & wonder if Sam Bennett would be willing to do the same. If it works even 50% as well as it did for Scheifele we'd have a nitro-charged version of the player we were hoping we drafted.

[CheersMan]

8 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Good article on Scheifele on SN & how his game keeps growing. He started going to Gary Roberts school & they helped a lot including using his DNA to design the best diet for him. No detail omitted but it takes a heck of a lot of dedication & a determination to be the best player he can.

More recently he's also started working with Adam Oates in the off season. This kid is determined to be 1 of the best & we see a better player every year.

 

I mention this & wonder if Sam Bennett would be willing to do the same. If it works even 50% as well as it did for Scheifele we'd have a nitro-charged version of the player we were hoping we drafted.

 

Gary Roberts has taken this league to a whole new level in terms of fitness.  The list of players he has helped is long and accomplished.  Great suggestion for Sam.

[cross16]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

  

Also, if we traded him because of his attitude....   how did we miss that when we drafted him?   And, why didn't we trade him when we first noticed it, and he was worth a top 10 pick?   Because for some time, he was.

 

At the end of the day:  Yes, we can move on.   No, I don't think we can say this was handled well.  I do think there are things to be learned from it.

 

They traded him because he demanded it. He was going to Europe if they didn't moved him and refused to re sign. Flames didn't want to move him. 

 

Lucky the Flames did learn from it. They fired the 2 main people who botched the development in the first place. 

[Carty]

13 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Good article on Scheifele on SN & how his game keeps growing. He started going to Gary Roberts school & they helped a lot including using his DNA to design the best diet for him. No detail omitted but it takes a heck of a lot of dedication & a determination to be the best player he can.

More recently he's also started working with Adam Oates in the off season. This kid is determined to be 1 of the best & we see a better player every year.

 

I mention this & wonder if Sam Bennett would be willing to do the same. If it works even 50% as well as it did for Scheifele we'd have a nitro-charged version of the player we were hoping we drafted.

 

A good skills coach or trainer in the off season can be very beneficial...   A while back I mentioned how Mikael Backlund working with Darryl Belfry had improved his game...  Here's one of the articles on that...   http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/02/01/skills-coach-reveals-secret-behind-new--improved-flames-sniper-mikael-backlund    Some of the other players Belfry has worked with are P. Kane, Tavares, Duchene, Parise and Pacioretty...