Flames Defense

[nevermissashift]

Ok. 

I mean it now. 

I'm not Bufflin around. 

[nevermissashift]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

No more inter-ference, We need a fresh stuart.  Lets just enjoy the commodores

 

 

 

That's right. We need a brick housley in front. 

[CheersMan]

Probably time to bump this thread up.

How about those dmen? I think they are doing a terrific job.

Combined, they are the most frugal group in NHL at giving up fewest goals.

Sure, the forwards are chipping in and contributing to entire team defense, and having Markstrom backstopping sure helps, but give those dmen full credit, all of them.

The top 4 are doing their job plus some but the bottom 2 have been a pleasant outcome.

Not seeing Gudbranson or Zadorov get beaten very often.

Gudbranson has shown he has good speed, sound defensively and keeps the opposition honest, doesn’t go looking for trouble but finishes the troublemakers when he has too.

Same for the big Z, keeps everyone’s head on a swivel (or he’ll knock it off). Not sure I’ve ever seen a Flames dman stand up Getzlaf and stop him in his tracks on the back boards like the big Z did the other night. Checkmate.

Flame forwards are all playing a little more comfortable knowing they have some big men (including Luc) on their team that will back them up.

I like the bottom pairing dmen and the attributes they bring to the team. I’m not looking for any personnel changes there.

[LouCifer]

Agreed CM! All that chatter in the other thread - at least on my part - is attempting to read the coach and GMs mind. Our D have been fantastic and they are an exemplary bunch! Fun to watch! Go flames go!

[cross16]

I've posted this before but I don't' think he is getting enough credit for the season he is having. A huge bounce back season from him and seems to be hitting his ceiling. Top pairing d production. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

Ras is what we hoped he would become, out from under Gio's shadow.

As you suggested, not a true #1, but pretty darn good.

Career season so far.

He seems to make smarter decisions this year. 

Good points total to date, but would like to see him get more shots directed at nets.

He seems to avoid the shot at all costs.

Might just be him wanting for the team to keep possession, but he has a decent shot.

Accurate wrist shot, just always looking for the perfect angle.

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

I've posted this before but I don't' think he is getting enough credit for the season he is having. A huge bounce back season from him and seems to be hitting his ceiling. Top pairing d production. 

 

Agreed. He's a great dman. The rest will just be experience to get even better.

Who says we can't develop prospects?

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

I've posted this before but I don't' think he is getting enough credit for the season he is having. A huge bounce back season from him and seems to be hitting his ceiling. Top pairing d production. 

 

 

 

Andersson is having a very good year.  The entire Flames blueline is doing well.  Coming into this season we thought our D was our weakest link.  Lost Gio.  Zadorov - Gudbranson was a total disaster in pre-season.  But man, it's turned out to be our strength.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Andersson is having a very good year.  The entire Flames blueline is doing well.  Coming into this season we thought our D was our weakest link.  Lost Gio.  Zadorov - Gudbranson was a total disaster in pre-season.  But man, it's turned out to be our strength.

 

I think every D-man is having a career year.

Saw the stats, and it looks like everyone will exceed their best.

[420since1974]

I've been a fan of Andersson ever since the Flames drafted him with the 2nd round pick they got for Baertschi.

I was hoping for a solid 2nd pairing RD.

Pretty pleased at how he has turned out.

 

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

I've been a fan of Andersson ever since the Flames drafted him with the 2nd round pick they got for Baertschi.

I was hoping for a solid 2nd pairing RD.

Pretty pleased at how he has turned out.

 

 

I think he really has come onto his own, being out from under Gio's shadow.

[conundrumed]

Gotta push this thread back up. Mackey looking like a solid candidate to take a spot next year. Hopefully Valimaki gets there too. Nice to look ahead and see that we have some really good, cheap options for next year from the farm. We're going to need that.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Gotta push this thread back up. Mackey looking like a solid candidate to take a spot next year. Hopefully Valimaki gets there too. Nice to look ahead and see that we have some really good, cheap options for next year from the farm. We're going to need that.

 

Valimaki needs to play like the guy we thought he was becoming.  A lot of scratch for a 7/8 guy otherwise.  I think Mackey has a good chance to replace Zaddy.  As long as we somehow retain Guddy.  Can't lose both of them.    

[jjgallow]

 

A gentle bump, the most important thread in this forum has gone stagnant for > two months (last post April 6), and the only mention of defense in this forum lately has been trading away defensemen (as if we had a surplus).

 

Tonight, Edmonton was officially bent over in the playoffs with ease by Colorado, an actual playoff team with generational talents like Cale Makar (a Calgarian) leading the way.

 

These playoffs are bittersweet, the most influential players in them are a Calgarian defenseman, and another defenseman Calgary drafted but let slip away.

 

If I were an Edmonton fan, I'd be pretty upset right now and possibly calling for a tear-down.   They were not built for the playoffs, and at this stage never will be with this core.   They have no defensemen to speak of, their rent-a-goalie model doesn't work in the playoffs, and their forwards don't have that playoff gear.   IMHO Mackinnon was possibly more effective than McDavid  (not that this is their biggest problem).   Tinkering won't fix those issues.

 

I don't like writing this.   But if we are being honest, the Flame's issues are exponentially worse, but otherwise very similar, to the Oilers in terms of playoffs.   We barely made it past the first round against a very weak team, and then we proceeded to get Totally obliterated....by ...  the Oilers...who are also not a playoff team.

 

That's bad.

 

And we knew this ahead of time, because this core has shown us this in the past.    Also exponentially worse than the Oilers is we won't be present for the first round of the NHL draft.    That's when I crack open the whisky and really let loose.    I do not believe I have ever written in this forum that we have bigger problems than the Oilers and quite frankly it's uncomfortable to write.   But that's where we are and imho fans should demand more.

 

We could start by actually discussing defense,....

 

p.s...at least we didn't pick up Kane

[Thebrewcrew]

Unfortunately, Cale Makar’s don’t grow on trees. Colorado lucked into him. They had a historically terrible season and lost the lottery, not once, not twice, but three times. If they win the lottery, they take Hischier or Patrick. They aren’t even close to being as dominant. I was able to chat with a scout of a team that had a top 10 pick in 2017, he personally said he had Makar very high that year but no team was considering an AJHL player 1st overall.

 

The last chance the Flames had to take a D high was in 2016. Nobody was making Mcavoy the 6th overall pick at the time, so that leaves you with Sergachev. I’m fine with Tkachuk.

 

There’s no point even bringing up Adam Fox anymore. He did not want to sign with the Calgary Flames, plain and simple. He used his leverage and landed himself onto the team of his dreams. The idea of Fox playing for Calgary is fun, but it was never going to happen

 

Yes the Flames need a star #1D. It’s easier to list off the teams that don’t need one.

[sak22]

27 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Unfortunately, Cale Makar’s don’t grow on trees. Colorado lucked into him. They had a historically terrible season and lost the lottery, not once, not twice, but three times. If they win the lottery, they take Hischier or Patrick. They aren’t even close to being as dominant. I was able to chat with a scout of a team that had a top 10 pick in 2017, he personally said he had Makar very high that year but no team was considering an AJHL player 1st overall.

 

The last chance the Flames had to take a D high was in 2016. Nobody was making Mcavoy the 6th overall pick at the time, so that leaves you with Sergachev. I’m fine with Tkachuk.

 

There’s no point even bringing up Adam Fox anymore. He did not want to sign with the Calgary Flames, plain and simple. He used his leverage and landed himself onto the team of his dreams. The idea of Fox playing for Calgary is fun, but it was never going to happen

 

Yes the Flames need a star #1D. It’s easier to list off the teams that don’t need one.

Also keep in mind we have a guy who was a top 5 pick that isn't even the best defenseman from the draft on this team, let alone the league.  Hanifin isn't alone as far as top 5 guys who don't live up to their potential Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, Hickey, Alzner, Bogosian, Schenn, Adam Larsson, Murray, Reinhart, Juolevi, and while Seth Jones has been productive he's nowhere near the guy many panned him to be.  As far as studs go in the top 5 during that period you have Doughty, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Ekblad, Heiskanen and Makar.  Very hard to pick these guys in the now, very easy to be a hindsight GM message board critic.

[jjgallow]

52 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Yes the Flames need a star #1D. It’s easier to list off the teams that don’t need one.

 

I won't go nuts, I'm saving that for draft day.   I will just say that after two defense-heavy first rounds in 2020 and 2021, the Flames blatantly avoiding D and goalies in both of them, we can't really call it lady luck.   Personally, I feel the same is true of Fox, and yes I might be wrong.   Makar was highly under-rated in what was considered  a weak draft, and available to any team that really wanted him badly enough.   If any team should have seen him enough to know, it would be the Flames.    Anyway, you're right, we can't pin our troubles on any one specific player mentioned here.   But, just like this thread, the most important in this forum, goes months without a single post....the Flames organization seems aligned in neglecting their blueline consistently for months, years at a time.   Was not always this way, but has been in the last 10 years or so.

 

Let's be honest, this is us ever first round (except won't be this one):
 

"Makar's don't grow in trees"

 

Draft day comes: "Let's draft a forward he's got lots of points"

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

I don't like writing this.   But if we are being honest, the Flame's issues are exponentially worse, but otherwise very similar, to the Oilers in terms of playoffs.   We barely made it past the first round against a very weak team, and then we proceeded to get Totally obliterated....by ...  the Oilers...who are also not a playoff team.

 

To be fair, we went from being the most consistent team in the league to being a head scratcher in the 2nd round.  Consistent as in scoring first more than any team in the NHL.  Say what you want about Dallas, but they have elite talent on the backend and two forwards that can take over games.  TBH, I think teams like COL and EDM would have had trouble against their system.  

 

The adjustment to EDM was too much too soon.  I think we would have been better off facing COL or STL in the 2nd round.  Less one-man shows that you can roll your line against.  

[Thebrewcrew]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I won't go nuts, I'm saving that for draft day.   I will just say that after two defense-heavy first rounds in 2020 and 2021, the Flames blatantly avoiding D and goalies in both of them, we can't really call it lady luck.   Personally, I feel the same is true of Fox, and yes I might be wrong.   Makar was highly under-rated in what was considered  a weak draft, and available to any team that really wanted him badly enough.   If any team should have seen him enough to know, it would be the Flames.    Anyway, you're right, we can't pin our troubles on any one specific player mentioned here.   But, just like this thread, the most important in this forum, goes months without a single post....the Flames organization seems aligned in neglecting their blueline consistently for months, years at a time.   Was not always this way, but has been in the last 10 years or so.

 

Let's be honest, this is us ever first round (except won't be this one):
 

"Makar's don't grow in trees"

 

Draft day comes: "Let's draft a forward he's got lots of points"

I agree with that the Flames need to invest more draft capital into the blue line.

It’s an organizational weakness right now for sure. 
 

When Calgary took Coronato last year, there weren’t really any D worth taking with the 13th overall pick. Maybe Lambos, but there were injury concerns and he did end up sliding a bit. Ceulemans maybe as well.

 

2020, they did trade down with NY. The Rangers took Schneider. That will be one to watch over the years. I liked Zary a little more than Schneider, but we will see how it plays out.

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

A gentle bump, the most important thread in this forum has gone stagnant for > two months (last post April 6), and the only mention of defense in this forum lately has been trading away defensemen (as if we had a surplus).

 

Tonight, Edmonton was officially bent over in the playoffs with ease by Colorado, an actual playoff team with generational talents like Cale Makar (a Calgarian) leading the way.

 

These playoffs are bittersweet, the most influential players in them are a Calgarian defenseman, and another defenseman Calgary drafted but let slip away.

 

If I were an Edmonton fan, I'd be pretty upset right now and possibly calling for a tear-down.   They were not built for the playoffs, and at this stage never will be with this core.   They have no defensemen to speak of, their rent-a-goalie model doesn't work in the playoffs, and their forwards don't have that playoff gear.   IMHO Mackinnon was possibly more effective than McDavid  (not that this is their biggest problem).   Tinkering won't fix those issues.

 

I don't like writing this.   But if we are being honest, the Flame's issues are exponentially worse, but otherwise very similar, to the Oilers in terms of playoffs.   We barely made it past the first round against a very weak team, and then we proceeded to get Totally obliterated....by ...  the Oilers...who are also not a playoff team.

 

That's bad.

 

And we knew this ahead of time, because this core has shown us this in the past.    Also exponentially worse than the Oilers is we won't be present for the first round of the NHL draft.    That's when I crack open the whisky and really let loose.    I do not believe I have ever written in this forum that we have bigger problems than the Oilers and quite frankly it's uncomfortable to write.   But that's where we are and imho fans should demand more.

 

We could start by actually discussing defense,....

 

p.s...at least we didn't pick up Kane

Same as the Oil.

I dont think missing out on the 26OA pick is exponentially than the Oilers having their 29OA pick.

 Saying the Oilers are in a better position solely because of the outcome of the series  is patented "chicken little" JJ dramatics.

 

The Oil have their hands full with signing Poolparty, Yamamoto, McLeod and maybe Kane while trying to shore up their D and find another QUALITY goalie.  They are no better off than anyone really.

 

I'm not saying the Flames dont have issues to address but there really is more to build off of.

 

 

[flames for life]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

To be fair, we went from being the most consistent team in the league to being a head scratcher in the 2nd round.  Consistent as in scoring first more than any team in the NHL.  Say what you want about Dallas, but they have elite talent on the backend and two forwards that can take over games.  TBH, I think teams like COL and EDM would have had trouble against their system.  

 

The adjustment to EDM was too much too soon.  I think we would have been better off facing COL or STL in the 2nd round.  Less one-man shows that you can roll your line against.  

I have to accept the Oilers played us perfectly in screwing up the whole team into playing their game.  Keeping in mind one of the “anchors “ on our defence (Tanev) was broken, really was the start of us drifting off course.  It isn’t logical to say that we were a top defensive unit all season, but when the playoffs start, our “weak” defence was shown up.

Our drafting has predominantly been in the second round and up, and in those picks we have 2 d’s on the team now, and 2-3 in a transitional position to make the team in the next seasons to come.  I have gained huge trust in our drafting, and frankly have avoided the 1st round conversations because I think the odds of finding elite or notable outside of the top 5 or 10, is just as much a crapshoot as in the rounds beyond that. 
I am curious to see which direction BT heads in the drafting, but I’m confident he will address needs that he and Sutter recognize.

[tmac70]

Here is what gets my blood boiling. Why the F do we care what the POS up north have. Everyone maiking it sound that they are the team to beat, get bent. I will agree we need help on the back end and it got exposed when the systems went south. Eveyone was terrified with Gubranson and Zadorov, but really Kylingon, Anderson adn Hanifin were the weak links. I have said this once before if you score more than 3 goals in a 2nd round it should be enough to win. We scored 3 or more goals in 4 games agaisnt the skid marks up north. Colorado was allowed to check Mc Baby this round, we were not allowed to fart in his direction and it was a penalty. The team that played the best won round two, the better team won round three those are facts. The issue this summer that needs to be addressed is who stays who goes. IMHO JG is a must, MT even for a year should definelty be considered. Monahan, Lucic, Hanifin are pieces that need to be moved ASAP. As for Kylington I could care less, felt he was a liability not an assest. 

 

There is lots to be proud of but we are most certainly not near elite status either. However we are in a better poition than everyone one thinks. A couple key moves of pawn pieces could change the whole dynamic of this team. 

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Here is what gets my blood boiling. Why the F do we care what the POS up north have. Everyone maiking it sound that they are the team to beat, get bent. I will agree we need help on the back end and it got exposed when the systems went south. Eveyone was terrified with Gubranson and Zadorov, but really Kylingon, Anderson adn Hanifin were the weak links. I have said this once before if you score more than 3 goals in a 2nd round it should be enough to win. We scored 3 or more goals in 4 games agaisnt the skid marks up north. Colorado was allowed to check Mc Baby this round, we were not allowed to fart in his direction and it was a penalty. The team that played the best won round two, the better team won round three those are facts. The issue this summer that needs to be addressed is who stays who goes. IMHO JG is a must, MT even for a year should definelty be considered. Monahan, Lucic, Hanifin are pieces that need to be moved ASAP. As for Kylington I could care less, felt he was a liability not an assest. 

 

There is lots to be proud of but we are most certainly not near elite status either. However we are in a better poition than everyone one thinks. A couple key moves of pawn pieces could change the whole dynamic of this team. 

 

While I agree that reacting to EDM is the wrong approach and that it's no different than not reacting to the results of the North division SC playoff year.  That didn't prove anything to anyone.  This year we saw an alignment according to the way the teams signed and traded last summer.  Vegas pooched themselves.  EDM went all in and fell short of improving the needed pieces.  We addressed the area we need to.  Monahan never got back to being more than a 3rd liner at best.  Lucic played too much early on, so a bit of wasted season with him too high in the lineup.  He tailed off once he played 4th line minutes and little PP time.

 

You can't, though, just look at the playoffs and suggest that we need to trade Hanifin and Kylington.  Two players that were solid for most, if not all of the regular season.  Kylington went from an extra to a 2nd pair guy and exceeded his previous stats.  He fell off after he got injured.  May have caused him to change his game slightly.  His playoffs were not great, but was not a big problem until Tanev was injured.  Hanifin had a lousy playoffs and they used him too much on the PP, which he never did anything with. 

 

I'm okay with re-signing Kylington for a reasonable cap hit.  At worst he's a fast puck moving 3rd pair guy.  Replacing Hanifin is fine if you get the same or better.  You are not getting a Makar in any trade.  So, go into next season with 6 solid guys and one guy that can play 1/2 a season and not create a drop off.  

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Here is what gets my blood boiling. Why the F do we care what the POS up north have. Everyone maiking it sound that they are the team to beat, get bent. I will agree we need help on the back end and it got exposed when the systems went south. Eveyone was terrified with Gubranson and Zadorov, but really Kylingon, Anderson adn Hanifin were the weak links. I have said this once before if you score more than 3 goals in a 2nd round it should be enough to win. We scored 3 or more goals in 4 games agaisnt the skid marks up north. Colorado was allowed to check Mc Baby this round, we were not allowed to fart in his direction and it was a penalty. The team that played the best won round two, the better team won round three those are facts. The issue this summer that needs to be addressed is who stays who goes. IMHO JG is a must, MT even for a year should definelty be considered. Monahan, Lucic, Hanifin are pieces that need to be moved ASAP. As for Kylington I could care less, felt he was a liability not an assest. 

 

There is lots to be proud of but we are most certainly not near elite status either. However we are in a better poition than everyone one thinks. A couple key moves of pawn pieces could change the whole dynamic of this team. 

 

It's reasonable to consider the team up North when building a team as Sutter said about losing to McDavid, "it's the nature of playing in this division".  The road to the Cup in the coming 3 to 4 years should have the Oilers in the storyline.  We need to be prepared and assume we will have to face this Oilers team again next year same time.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's reasonable to consider the team up North when building a team as Sutter said about losing to McDavid, "it's the nature of playing in this division".  The road to the Cup in the coming 3 to 4 years should have the Oilers in the storyline.  We need to be prepared and assume we will have to face this Oilers team again next year same time.

not saying we aren’t good enough, but how long is Tanev out to start the season? I know he’s not the only reason we made the playoffs, but a big reason. If the team can tread around the playoffs until he’s back at 100% then we have a good chance. I’m guessing it’ll be weeks, maybe a month at the most? 
 

id prefer him back at 100% though. He’s too good to lose to another injury if he comes back too soon and re-injures it.