MAC331 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I over looked Franson being a RHS, my bad. This might be ok to finish this season for us but if we were to resign him other things come into consideration. I get crucified every time I mention busting up Giordano and Brodie however if you had a talent come in like Franson maybe consider these pairings. Giordano, Wideman Brodie, Franson Russell, Engelland I think Brodie is better on the LS and this arrangement would make us a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think Franson will end going for a fair bit and won't be cheap. It's not looking to be a very good deadline and he will be one of the few top 4 dman available so I would suspect either a 1st or 2nd with a good prospect or young player will be the price just to get the leafs listening. I am a Franson fan but he is a Wideman clone so if you have any complaints about Wideman you will feel the same about Franson. I'm not prepared to pay him over 5 mill, which is amaranth what he is asking for, unless you could trade Wideman and I'm not sure that market is there. I would want to identical player making 5 plus mill on the D core. Trading Wideman to open replacing him with Franson is something I'd rather not do. Franson is 4 years younger but we have Wideman for 2 more years @ 5.25 & know he fits the team. Franson is apparently looking for @ least = while being an unknown. I'd treat Franson as a pure rental because he's an unknown on the Flames. Offer a 4th & roster dump & go as high as a 3rd if needed. If someone offers more the Leafs can take it. By the deadline other teams will be off-loading & if we want a longer term player the summer allows us to load up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Trading Wideman to open replacing him with Franson is something I'd rather not do. Franson is 4 years younger but we have Wideman for 2 more years @ 5.25 & know he fits the team. Franson is apparently looking for @ least = while being an unknown. I'd treat Franson as a pure rental because he's an unknown on the Flames. Offer a 4th & roster dump & go as high as a 3rd if needed. If someone offers more the Leafs can take it. By the deadline other teams will be off-loading & if we want a longer term player the summer allows us to load up. Wideman is a pretty good 3/4 defenseman, and worth the contract in the near term. Franson would be a good add, if part of the deal was a conditional pick. Otherwise, he would be an expensive rental. He could become a big part of the Flames if he was signed, although I'm not liking the rumoured $$ he wants. He could be a 3rd pair guy you could play more than Engelland, thereby reducing the minutes for the top 4. Having a 3/4 capable guy as depth is a good thing. Agree not to be in a bidding war for him, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess what I'm trying to boil it all down to is we have a dang good 1st pairing. Wideman is a good 2nd pairing guy & we can make do with his partner. I'd like to upgrade our depth though. We talk about Franson to help our depth but likely because he's a name player (thanks to TO based media) but we don't need it to be him. Coburn (4.5), L Schenn (3.6) & Grossman (3.5) are 3 Flyers D (chosen because of familiarity) with a year left after this before going UFA. They all have some form of NTC but probably see the Flyers are unlikely to make the playoffs this year. All 3 could be on our 2nd pairing & be had for a reasonable price as Hex tries to work his way out of the cap jail Homer left him. The Flyers have 4 or more very good D prospects with @ least 2 capable of rating a test drive this year. If Hex trades any/all of the 3 it'll be for prospects/picks/expiring this year contracts to have space to add players he likes rather than inherited. I've always liked Coburn but he's best with a top guy like Pronger or Timonen. Wideman isn't that caliber & I don't want to break up Gio/Brodie although Gio could fill the role with Coburn. Luke is because imo he is best suited for the west.He'll clear the crease which endears him to goalies. Grossman is an older version of Luke but has been through the west & will battle every game. I'd be looking @ the east for players that would suit the west as dealing in conference has teams dreading what the good 1s do against them often so want a premium). I care less if they are name players because they put up points (not the way I judge D). I'm looking for a hard nosed guy that makes life easier on goalies. I think I want a younger Robyn Regehr. None of the Flyers I mentioned are near that but other than Luke they aren't young & Regehr sets the bar high. Myers is often mentioned by people that want him but not by Buffalo management. Iffy & costly. Probably worth it if he becomes what he could be. Boychuk is 1 we can shoot for in the summer if NYIs let him test the market (which I doubt as they'll sign him well before). Gleason off the Canes roster is said to be available. UFA rental depth/shutdown D. You get my drift. Not a guy we need the fans to fall in love with but someone that earns time, helps in our weak areas & won't decimate our depth. If deserved we re-up him before the UFA madness or if a year left on the contract we have a year to sign or trade him. A Weber or Keith would be great but those would cost most of our current team. **************************************************************** Before others mention trading current players for future D like Pulock remember I'm talking about improving the Flames for the present. I'd really like to trade for Pulock but that's stated in a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I find it funny how Russell is kind of forgotten or dismissed when talking about our D. I think our top 4 is one of the best in the league. Russell may not be putting up the numbers but I dare say he's one of the best defensive players we have. If only he were 7 inches taller and 40 lbs heavier and played the way he plays currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I find it funny how Russell is kind of forgotten or dismissed when talking about our D. I think our top 4 is one of the best in the league. Russell may not be putting up the numbers but I dare say he's one of the best defensive players we have. If only he were 7 inches taller and 40 lbs heavier and played the way he plays currently. The very reason I deliberately omitted Russell. I want to upgrade the defense part of our D corps. Russell is 27 so unlikely to get taller. If he adds 40 pounds it muscle turned to flab. He is what he is. A complimentary player. I'd be fine with him as depth but in the playoffs push comes to shove & I don't want to rely on him playing big minutes when hungry forwards have only him between a 2 on goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The very reason I deliberately omitted Russell. I want to upgrade the defense part of our D corps. Russell is 27 so unlikely to get taller. If he adds 40 pounds it muscle turned to flab. He is what he is. A complimentary player. I'd be fine with him as depth but in the playoffs push comes to shove & I don't want to rely on him playing big minutes when hungry forwards have only him between a 2 on goalie. That last part I wrote about him getting bigger was said with tongue in cheek. Perhaps it wasn't conveyed that way. As for him playing big minutes, he's already doing that and he's a +9 this season. He quietly goes about his business and has very few glaring errors. His defensive game has only gotten better as the season has progressed and he leads the league in blocked shots. What more could you ask for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 That last part I wrote about him getting bigger was said with tongue in cheek. Perhaps it wasn't conveyed that way. As for him playing big minutes, he's already doing that and he's a +9 this season. He quietly goes about his business and has very few glaring errors. His defensive game has only gotten better as the season has progressed and he leads the league in blocked shots. What more could you ask for? He has really upped his game since playing with Wideman regular. I like those two as our second pairing too. As a combo they are almost perfect together for this role. A lot of people prefer to single them out instead of look at their work as a pairing. I would rather we upgrade our bottom pairing to better help our other pairings minutes. I think that is where our upgrades should happen right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't think anyone here is questioning Russell's abilities rather to expand on those by bringing in some better and using Russell on the 3rd pairing. This would make the team better. Russell is a smart player and a great puck mover, giving us a better situation with either Engelland or Smid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 He has really upped his game since playing with Wideman regular. I like those two as our second pairing too. As a combo they are almost perfect together for this role. A lot of people prefer to single them out instead of look at their work as a pairing. I would rather we upgrade our bottom pairing to better help our other pairings minutes. I think that is where our upgrades should happen right now. I think we agree here. I suggested Franson as an upgrade to Engelland or Diaz, and having an offensive threat on the 3rd pair would allow a better balanced attack/minutes. Engelland and Diaz are a liability together, as is Smid and either of those two. If we went FF's route, that would also work, because it would still allow minutes to shaved off the top 4. Whether that means you drop Russell to the 3rd pair or bring in someone to help the 3rd pair, it's all good. Russell is a shot-blocking machine, so if his minutes remained the same, and he was on the 3rd pairing, we would be instantly a better team. That is assuming we had a defense-first player on the 2nd pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 win vs SJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swayze67 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I can't believe some of you guys think Russell is the weak link on that line. He spends a lot of time covering up for wide(open)man's mistakes. I would like to see the flames pick up another d-man as well for the 3/4 pairing but I would be putting wideopen to the 5/6 position and use him on the PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'd rather pick up a 3/4 Dman and put him on the third pairing. Russel and Wides work really well off eachother, but having another top 4 capable Dman on the third pairing really solidifies the defence. If it is an offensive minded one we can rotate in (or trade) either Smid or Engelland while keeping Diaz as the 7th, if it is a Defensive minded D-man we keep Diaz and trade one of Smid or Engelland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I can't believe some of you guys think Russell is the weak link on that line. He spends a lot of time covering up for wide(open)man's mistakes. I would like to see the flames pick up another d-man as well for the 3/4 pairing but I would be putting wideopen to the 5/6 position and use him on the PP.I don't think anyone was really saying Russell is a weak link. I would rather have 3/4 and 5/6 be on the ice for a similar amount of time, assuming they are somewhat equal. Having a big drop between 2nd and 3rd pairing means we risk them being on the ice or the other pairs have to play extended minutes. Russell on the 2nd or 3rd pair doesn't matter to me as long as you get similar minutes of his shot blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 How awesome was our D in '04? Juss sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamcdn34 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The very reason I deliberately omitted Russell. I want to upgrade the defense part of our D corps. Russell is 27 so unlikely to get taller. If he adds 40 pounds it muscle turned to flab. He is what he is. A complimentary player. I'd be fine with him as depth but in the playoffs push comes to shove & I don't want to rely on him playing big minutes when hungry forwards have only him between a 2 on goalie. The one factor Russell has is he plays the game with a huge heart, and for that reason he is exactly the guy I would want in the playoffs!! I would take a smaller Dman that plays with a lot of heart over a larger dman that doesnt every day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ference isn't that big but he was pretty big in the 04 run. Last year when Russell went down to injury we lost a lot of games. I don't think it was a coincidence. He is very important to this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ference isn't that big but he was pretty big in the 04 run. Last year when Russell went down to injury we lost a lot of games. I don't think it was a coincidence. He is very important to this team. I think he was pretty big in some BOS runs as well. Shipping him to BOS after the 04 run was the beginning of our collapse. If we are targeting EDM defense, this is the guy you go after, not Petry, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucksage Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oliver Ekman-Larson for Smid and Engelland. Bring up Wotherspoon for a tryout. Giordano - Brodie Larsson - Wideman Russel - Diaz or Wotherspoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oliver Ekman-Larson for Smid and Engelland. Bring up Wotherspoon for a tryout. Giordano - Brodie Larsson - Wideman Russel - Diaz or Wotherspoon While this looks good for the Flames do you really think that Arizona would agree to this trade? or even consider it a serious offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucksage Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 While this looks good for the Flames do you really think that Arizona would agree to this trade? or even consider it a serious offer? Agreed, but it's a start. How about add Ramo and we get Arizona's 3rd round pick? Coyotes need a good goaltender to backup Smith or challenge him for the starting job. Just saying BT might get us a good deal for old times sake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 We'd probably be looking at something more like: Glenx/Baerschi, Engellend, and probably a third piece for Larsson and a pick. Now that's definitely improving our depth at the blue line (probably for a good long time), but do we want to pay that? I definitely don't give up Ramo because we need a good backup if we're going to do anything the rest of this season, Ortio should be playing equal minutes when he gets here, and that's not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Are we talking about OEL ? I can't believe that he'd actually be available but if he is, the price would be massive. Calgary's 1st rounder, a very good young player, and a top prospect. I don't even want to think about who'd have to go the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucksage Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I guess we can wait for Wotherspoon for next season? Smid, England and Ramo is as high I'd go for OEL as we have some good players coming up soon anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I guess we can wait for Wotherspoon for next season? Smid, England and Ramo is as high I'd go for OEL as we have some good players coming up soon anyways. Don't hold your breath on that trade nor Wotherspoon becoming OEL quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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