cccsberg Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I still can't believe some people think Brodie is not a top 4 D in any team. There is no doubt in my mind he will make top 4 D in any team and top 2 D in weaker teams.Nice thing with Brodie is not only is he great on offence, but he also knows how to play defence. He had an excellent game, and I really like the SportsNet isolations and commentaries on players. Really reinforces good play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenwanderer Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Nice thing with Brodie is not only is he great on offence, but he also knows how to play defence. He had an excellent game, and I really like the SportsNet isolations and commentaries on players. Really reinforces good play. Exactly the point! He's been handling top lines from ANY team for more than 100+ games and still contributes offensively and the offensive contributions is just getting better and better along with his defensive instincts as he progresses. If someone thinks a player with this skill set and talent is a bottom pairing for some teams in the NHL (since they think Brodie ain't a top 4 guy), I don't know what that guy's definition of a bottom pairing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesFanMan Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Brodie and Gio are playing unreal. Arguably one of the best pairings in the NHL imo. I think trading Wideman to a team that needs offense from the backend is smart. D-men are in demand right now and the Flames kept say..1.25mill of retained salary..it would be attractive to some teams to have Wideman at 4m a year. Not to mention it would bring back a good prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted November 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 So you want to put 1.25M in a burn barrel and burn it? --------------------You want to subtract Wideman from the lineup in exchange for a good prospect? A prospect like Tom Black or Garry White? For every 100 prospects, how many make the NHL? Go back and look at our first round picks over the last 20 years and see how many played in the NHL. Other than Monahan or Bennett, I don’t think you would trade Wideman for any one of them. --------------------After you make this deal, what do you do if Gio or Brodie goes down with injury for any length of time? --------------------Instead of burning 1.25M and giving Wideman away, why not burn the 1.25M and keep him. Would Wideman be more attractive to you if he was only making 4M/yr? -----------------------I’m all for upgrading, but the upgrade has to make sense. Brodie and Gio are playing unreal. Arguably one of the best pairings in the NHL imo. I think trading Wideman to a team that needs offense from the backend is smart. D-men are in demand right now and the Flames kept say..1.25mill of retained salary..it would be attractive to some teams to have Wideman at 4m a year. Not to mention it would bring back a good prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 This is why I'm on the fence about Wideman. He is contributing (at least for now). Yes, his weakness is that he is slower (I watched several games where he gets beat and can't catch the forward). Maybe it just seems that way since Gio, Bro, and Russell can all motor. Anyway, he has 5 goals and is helping contribute to our offense which is where we are lacking. If we could get a young defenseman who could make up for some of his offense and still play about equal defense then I'd be all for it. The problem is young D take some time to pan out so we could get the bad end of the deal. Either way, I don't think BT will trade him unless he slumps or the team gets well out of the playoff race. I'm not fool enough to say we are going to be in the hunt late in the season, but I wouldn't be too surprised either if our GK's keep playing lights out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenwanderer Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I think we should reserve all the Wideman trade conversation until near the trade deadline. We literally have not much depth either for D if one or more of our top 4 D goes down. I'm still hopeful for at least a playoff hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted November 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I agree. I think we should reserve all the Wideman trade conversation until near the trade deadline. We literally have not much depth either for D if one or more of our top 4 D goes down. I'm still hopeful for at least a playoff hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I say this dcore has earned the right to show us what they can sustain over the season, right now we have the highest producing top 4 in the league, not bad for a group that was written off before the season even started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis1891 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I don't see us trading wideman at the tdl. Who replaces him next season? Sieloff? Wotherspoon? Neither will be ready for top 4d minutes next season. Even if we get a prospect back in the trade, it'll be the same problem for him as the other 2 I mentioned. What few D prospects won't be ready to replace his role, if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I don't see us trading wideman at the tdl. Who replaces him next season? Sieloff? Wotherspoon? Neither will be ready for top 4d minutes next season. Even if we get a prospect back in the trade, it'll be the same problem for him as the other 2 I mentioned. What few D prospects won't be ready to replace his role, if ever. There are potentially better options available to us in trade (not necessarily as part of the Wideman trade). Myers, Larrson, Schenn, etc. But I agree, unless we pick up someone else I don't expect to see Wideman moved anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I say this dcore has earned the right to show us what they can sustain over the season, right now we have the highest producing top 4 in the league, not bad for a group that was written off before the season even started.They are doing an amazing job, and I hope they can keep it up. The MSM is still set on this thinking that Calgary has little to no talent and they can't believe we're not in the basement. I noted 1 reporter yesterday conceding the talent is improving, but still... That's OK, doesn't hurt to go under the radar and be unappreciated. It can put a chip on the team's shoulder to prove them all wrong. We'll see how far that takes us. There are potentially better options available to us in trade (not necessarily as part of the Wideman trade). Myers, Larrson, Schenn, etc. But I agree, unless we pick up someone else I don't expect to see Wideman moved anywhere.Agree, at some point we'll have to make similar decisions on several other players. Thing is to keep moving forward and balance off the risk/reward of a proven youngster versus a yet to be proven, but higher potential prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenwanderer Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 They are doing an amazing job, and I hope they can keep it up. The MSM is still set on this thinking that Calgary has little to no talent and they can't believe we're not in the basement. I noted 1 reporter yesterday conceding the talent is improving, but still... That's OK, doesn't hurt to go under the radar and be unappreciated. It can put a chip on the team's shoulder to prove them all wrong. We'll see how far that takes us. Agree, at some point we'll have to make similar decisions on several other players. Thing is to keep moving forward and balance off the risk/reward of a proven youngster versus a yet to be proven, but higher potential prospect. I actually don't mind reporters thinking we are a bottom feeder team. At least we can develop under the radar and surprise teams who underestimated us by taking 2 points from them. Maybe it'll be enough to push for a playoff spot. I think that more and more teams are being more aware how much damage our Flames team can do since more #1 goalies are facing us rather than backups facing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I actually don't mind reporters thinking we are a bottom feeder team. At least we can develop under the radar and surprise teams who underestimated us by taking 2 points from them. Maybe it'll be enough to push for a playoff spot. I think that more and more teams are being more aware how much damage our Flames team can do since more #1 goalies are facing us rather than backups facing us. Its one thing for reporters to overlook us but 29 other teams won't, they have scouting reports for a reason and word gets around who's doing what. Let the media say what they want, if this was the Leafs they would've planning the parade right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosn111 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Looking forward to next season is tough. We really don't know who will or will not be ready to step up on D and whether or not we move players, picks or prospects. Calgary has a luxury that many other teams do not. They can use the term "rebuild" for a couple more seasons in order to justify playing a few young guys in big roles to see if they can handle it. There are a number of Flames prospects pushing for a chance at playing on the Flames later this season or next season. Along with Sieloff and Wotherspoon you can't forget Culkin and Kulak as making pushes. I don't think any of the 4 would be quite ready for consistent top 4 minutes, but it would not be terrible. I like what I am seeing so far. Calgary is currently in the top half of the league for fewest goals against. The D is working well. The question is what to do next year. There is very little in the 26-30 year old range with respect to quality UFA D in the summer. Really you are looking to score big in a trade for a quality young D man to fit top 4 or you need to trade for an RFA like Dougie Hamilton or Adam Larsson. Don't forget that the Flames are close to the cap FLOOR this season, let alone next season. Trading someone like Wideman would take another good sized salary coming back to fill the void. Without a bigger trade,, Calgary will be working with what they have for a while, which is looking pretty good to me at this exact point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenwanderer Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Looking forward to next season is tough. We really don't know who will or will not be ready to step up on D and whether or not we move players, picks or prospects. Calgary has a luxury that many other teams do not. They can use the term "rebuild" for a couple more seasons in order to justify playing a few young guys in big roles to see if they can handle it. There are a number of Flames prospects pushing for a chance at playing on the Flames later this season or next season. Along with Sieloff and Wotherspoon you can't forget Culkin and Kulak as making pushes. I don't think any of the 4 would be quite ready for consistent top 4 minutes, but it would not be terrible. I like what I am seeing so far. Calgary is currently in the top half of the league for fewest goals against. The D is working well. The question is what to do next year. There is very little in the 26-30 year old range with respect to quality UFA D in the summer. Really you are looking to score big in a trade for a quality young D man to fit top 4 or you need to trade for an RFA like Dougie Hamilton or Adam Larsson. Don't forget that the Flames are close to the cap FLOOR this season, let alone next season. Trading someone like Wideman would take another good sized salary coming back to fill the void. Without a bigger trade,, Calgary will be working with what they have for a while, which is looking pretty good to me at this exact point in time. This is why I think we should stay put, keep Wideman to buy our D prospects some time and let our D prospects develop for one or two more years to see what we really got down there. If we get injuries in our D(which will eventually happen), those D prospects mentioned will get their shot in the big league. Trading Wideman and forcing those young guys to be a top 4 D in the NHL permanently might be too much to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I was listening to Bob Mackenzie on a call with the 1040 radio here in Vancouver talking about the Flames defense prior to the season start and he said most teams in the NHL would love to have our D core. It was always our depth up front that wouldn't cut it in the NHL. Other question marks were the Flames goaltending, whether Hiller rebounding off a bad year and whether Ramo can continue his good end to last year. I think we have a top 3 goaltending and now looking like a great top 3 top 4D in the league. The goaltending helps. The work ethic is there. I thought we'd have a bad year again, but I am quite pleased with what I am seeing so far. Keep it up. I don't think they should trade Wideman until a young player pushes him out. Even still, if you have Wideman on the 3rd D pairing and still gives you what he does now, that's an amazing top6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 You trade Wideman only if you get an asset back that could play now not a prospect you have to wait a few years for and I'd say that about just about any flames asset right now. I think the flames have don't their sell off and gotten their picks and prospects, now you need to be more strategic because you don't have to trade him, but if a team is wiling to offer a Dman or RW on the 21-25 age bracket who can play now and maybe top 4 d or top ) winger for years to come the flames would be stupid not to listen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 The guy who's very intriguing and rumoured to be available is Tyler Myers. No doubt Buffalo is trying to create a bidding war and the price would be high, but I'm wondering what their price might be ? Buffalo pretty much needs everything so who knows if BB/BT could put together a package that would bring him over. IMO, Myers would really solidify Calgary's top 4 but he might need some work as he must be a bit fragile after the last few years in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I was listening to Bob Mackenzie on a call with the 1040 radio here in Vancouver talking about the Flames defense prior to the season start and he said most teams in the NHL would love to have our D core. It was always our depth up front that wouldn't cut it in the NHL. Other question marks were the Flames goaltending, whether Hiller rebounding off a bad year and whether Ramo can continue his good end to last year. I think we have a top 3 goaltending and now looking like a great top 3 top 4D in the league. The goaltending helps. The work ethic is there. I thought we'd have a bad year again, but I am quite pleased with what I am seeing so far. Keep it up. I don't think they should trade Wideman until a young player pushes him out. Even still, if you have Wideman on the 3rd D pairing and still gives you what he does now, that's an amazing top6. I think Calgary brought in Engelland as a tough deterrent on D, along with Bollig and keeping McGratton. They've been able to not play McGratton much, and sat Engelland last game in large part because I think the fears of our small forwards getting manhandled hasn't materialized to date. There has been some rough stuff, but not much. Whether that's because of the intimidation/deterrent factor, the teams we've played or the rough stuff is becoming less and less common is not clear. Certainly Calgary hasn't played many/any of the really tough teams yet (OK, St Louis and Nashville) so we'll see once we hit LA and Anaheim. If Calgary can meet the need to play tough and protect our assets through functional toughness that's the ideal situation, but we may always need a nuclear option, i.e. Carcillo with Chicago and Scott with San Jose. Getting Ferland on the team, plus Bollig playing well, adding Poirier and perhaps Hunter Smith and others (e.g. Wolf) down the road may be enough. If so then we'll be able to seriously look at moving out Smid and Engelland for better and more mobile D in the 5-6 role, and replace them with Wotherspoon, Sieloff or others.. We'll still need strength to clear the front of the net but Kanzig could be that guy down the road. He has improved but still needs to do more. Overall, we are in a position to move out Wideman if we get something good back in return, and if not keep him for another year to help ease in the kids next year. I think someone like a Kulak could replace what he brings but isn't ready for full-time yet. Wotherspoon is more a solid, no-nonsense D and Sieloff tough as nails defender. Others to be determined. Our biggest need long-term on D is to find someone to replace Gio in a few years. That potential hole remains and we'll have to see what develops but if we could find someone young with high upside that can potentially grow into that role we'd be a lot better off than where we are now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 The guy who's very intriguing and rumoured to be available is Tyler Myers. No doubt Buffalo is trying to create a bidding war and the price would be high, but I'm wondering what their price might be ? Buffalo pretty much needs everything so who knows if BB/BT could put together a package that would bring him over. IMO, Myers would really solidify Calgary's top 4 but he might need some work as he must be a bit fragile after the last few years in Buffalo.There are a few names out there, and I wouldn't mind bringing in a couple of higher end youngsters or prospects almost ready to go. Myers, Larson, Gormley, Petry/Klefbom/other from Oilers? ...lots of potential opportunities but you'll have to give up something to get something. We have a plethora of prospect forwards and of course high draft picks(potentially, we should keep them...) so we'll have to see if BT can pull something off. I think after another month things will start to heat up trade-wise as teams start to see just where they sit and and what they may have to do to make the playoffs. Expect some action starting in the New Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I'd pass on Myers. He's been terrible outside his rookie year and at this point is just a very expensive project. I'd love Larsson but I doubt very much he is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I haven't seen enough of Kiefbom to have an informed opinion, but I definitely would not want Petry. The brain cramps he has in his own zone far outweigh his offensive output. Mmmmm, that sounds just like Justin Schultz as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 vs WSH, D comes thru again and Hiller was great as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 More food for thought. I wonder if the Toronto Hockey Propaganda Machine will recognize this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenwanderer Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 More food for thought. I wonder if the Toronto Hockey Propaganda Machine will recognize this one. We got the two best scoring defensemen in the league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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