Flames Defense

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Problem I had with acquiring Hamonic is you paid a premium price for a guy coming off a terrible year and a half. I could understand a rolling of the dice to see if he could go back to the Hamonic of a few years ago but then the price should reflect that. Flames paid a premium for a player who was one of the worst performing Dmen in the NHL last year, it was not a very shrewd moving on Trelivings part and unfortunately its blowing up in his face. 

 

I know we can talk about Hamilton and how he struggled when he first got here but I don't believe the situations are the same. Hamonic has been this bad for well over a season now and because this is becoming the norm, not the exception, i've basically lost all hope he can be fixed. When I watch him play I don't see it being a fit issue I just think he's  overrated and the knee injuries he's suffered has really sucked his foot speed. 

 

I see a struggling Brodie.  How many different guys have been chained to him and looked good?  Gio.

I'm not saying Gio made Brodie better or vice versa, just that that was the last time Brodie was consistently good.  Sure, he had giveaways when he passed across the ice on his backhand.  Now he does that on his "strong" side.

[cross16]

57 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I see a struggling Brodie.  How many different guys have been chained to him and looked good?  Gio.

 

 

Engelland, Stone, heck he and Wideman were actually not a horrible pairing when you look at the numbers. 

 

It doesn't have to be a blame situation. It's not like you have to blame Brodie and defend Hamonic or vice versa. The easier, and likely correct answer, is both are not playing well enough. Problem I have with Hamonic is he's looked bad since day 1 here, he looked bad last year, he looks slow, constantly chasing, and his only play is glass and out which is problematic. Can't blame Brodie for that. 

[tmac70]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Engelland, Stone, heck he and Wideman were actually not a horrible pairing when you look at the numbers. 

 

It doesn't have to be a blame situation. It's not like you have to blame Brodie and defend Hamonic or vice versa. The easier, and likely correct answer, is both are not playing well enough. Problem I have with Hamonic is he's looked bad since day 1 here, he looked bad last year, he looks slow, constantly chasing, and his only play is glass and out which is problematic. Can't blame Brodie for that. 

But how many times have you seen Hamonic defending 2 guys by himself, Brodie off who knows where. Hamonic has not look great but he also has not looked bad, he has been made to look bad by his partner. That said you can say the same of Gio and Ham, Hamilton left with 3 guys in the area last night , no Gio or center to be found. Than you have Hamilton lose the puck off his skate and with no desire try to get back in the play. There are HUGE issue on the back end, but overall assessment Brodie has been the worst of them all but still gets the most ice time!! 

[cccsberg]

On 2017-12-04 at 11:38 AM, jjgallow said:

 

 

That's a different thread, but almost nobody is "happy" with our goaltender pipeline right now.   That's not just me, that's the majority.   If we're talking about a replacement for a starting goaltender, right now the only remaining prospect in our pipeline with that projection is Parsons.   That's it.   And he's struggling.  As well as being a long ways off.  He will never replace Smith directly.  Someone else will do that and it likely won't be anyone you mentioned above.

 

I believe you are very far off as far as the goalies go.  We have a solid and very promising pipeline and with Rittich now up in the NHL as a backup we have a clear path towards bringing them all along over the next year or two, even ignoring the possibility that Lack comes around with more games.  The team appears to have misjudged our current strength, and the need to solidify 4D but even that can still come around with perhaps a few tweaks.  Honestly, I believe we have the pieces in place but the leadership and direction (coaching) isn't helping matters at the moment and if that changes, or the team somehow comes together we can still make it interesting this year.  Face it, as much as the team is inconsistent we are still only 1 pt out of a playoff spot.  Frustrating yes and looking like we are heading in the wrong direction but NOT the end of the world.

[nevermissashift]

Hamonic has been the only one with nutz. Stone seems to have the look of determination in his eyez, determination that you need in the playoffs. Kulac displays the same. We all know Gio will give his heart in the playoffs.

I see what looks like laziness or some kind of egotistical hyper-composure in some of the others.

Last night Hamonic was the victim of zebras setting an example of the 'new' era of rules (Rules that are spoiling the game in my opinion, but that is another topic). Checking to the head, BULL.

While on the zebras, that was some high stick from Frolic:) Another side point: the dramatics after a stick taps a player is suckatash whimpering embarrassment.

Drifting even further off course, how about J Thornton supposedly trying to crush that Washington player's head into the boards last night. I watched it over many times to try to see it. BS. The SJ coach crying about a 'premeditated attack' is more girly stuff. This is all my opinion, and obviously will differ with many other's.

 

[cccsberg]

11 minutes ago, nevermissashift said:

Hamonic has been the only one with nutz. Stone seems to have the look of determination in his eyez, determination that you need in the playoffs. Kulac displays the same. We all know Gio will give his heart in the playoffs.

I see what looks like laziness or some kind of egotistical hyper-composure in some of the others.

Last night Hamonic was the victim of zebras setting an example of the 'new' era of rules (Rules that are spoiling the game in my opinion, but that is another topic). Checking to the head, BULL.

While on the zebras, that was some high stick from Frolic:) Another side point: the dramatics after a stick taps a player is suckatash whimpering embarrassment.

Drifting even further off course, how about J Thornton supposedly trying to crush that Washington player's head into the boards last night. I watched it over many times to try to see it. BS. The SJ coach crying about a 'premeditated attack' is more girly stuff. This is all my opinion, and obviously will differ with many other's.

 

Agree fully, and will even go further with the obvious trip on Jagr in the corner of the O zone late in the game, with the ref looking right at it.  As a fan this is totally frustrating.  It would be nice to know there is some accountability of the refs via the league but I don't know of any if there is.  

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Engelland, Stone, heck he and Wideman were actually not a horrible pairing when you look at the numbers. 

 

It doesn't have to be a blame situation. It's not like you have to blame Brodie and defend Hamonic or vice versa. The easier, and likely correct answer, is both are not playing well enough. Problem I have with Hamonic is he's looked bad since day 1 here, he looked bad last year, he looks slow, constantly chasing, and his only play is glass and out which is problematic. Can't blame Brodie for that. 

 

And where is Brodie during these times where his only play is off the glass.  

Not supporting him I guess.  It's great to think offense, but you need to recognize the time to do it.  

 

Honestly, if they are keeping Brodie on LD, then move Hamonic up with Gio.  Have one unit that can shutdown the best players.  Play Kulak with Hamilton, since he's pretty smart at knowing when to back off.  PLay Brodie with Stone as a third pair, or at least no more minutes that Hamilton.  Brodie is not currently the 3rd best player out there, so he should not be playing the 2nd most minutes. 

[nevermissashift]

29 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Agree fully, and will even go further with the obvious trip on Jagr in the corner of the O zone late in the game, with the ref looking right at it.  As a fan this is totally frustrating.  It would be nice to know there is some accountability of the refs via the league but I don't know of any if there is.  

Why the heck isn't there accountability?

That retarded call on Frolic, I think led to one of the Flyer's goals. How many zebra's are on the ice now? Aren't any of them watching the game? ?

How is it that the zeebz can use replays to supposedly prove Hamonic's penalty but turn a blind eye to the fact that Frolic's stick was nowhere near the poor baby Flyer player.

I know I am partially off topic still but the zeebz have near comlpete control of the game and it's outcome.

I WISH THERE WAS AN ALTERNATIVE LEAGUE TO THE NHL AGAIN... wishful thinking.

 

A few other things; Frederick H is not what Calgary needs; Hathaway is better.

Douglas H needs to grow some teeth or he won't succeed anywhere.

Put Brody and Gio together again; they worked well together.

They all need to get back to basics again, and that means remembering the hunger and drive that got them where they are.

The cooler head prevails unless it is a lazy cool head.

 

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And where is Brodie during these times where his only play is off the glass.  

Not supporting him I guess.  It's great to think offense, but you need to recognize the time to do it.  

 

Honestly, if they are keeping Brodie on LD, then move Hamonic up with Gio.  Have one unit that can shutdown the best players.  Play Kulak with Hamilton, since he's pretty smart at knowing when to back off.  PLay Brodie with Stone as a third pair, or at least no more minutes that Hamilton.  Brodie is not currently the 3rd best player out there, so he should not be playing the 2nd most minutes. 

 

I think our current defensive depth chart is as follows:

 

Giordano

Hamonic

Stone

Hamilton

Brodie

Kulak

 

Kulak doesn't get enough minutes yet to move up this chart and he is still prone to the odd brain cramp, I don't know if that is due to just being a rookie or if he lacks the high end hockey iq.

[cccsberg]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And where is Brodie during these times where his only play is off the glass.  

Not supporting him I guess.  It's great to think offense, but you need to recognize the time to do it.  

 

Honestly, if they are keeping Brodie on LD, then move Hamonic up with Gio.  Have one unit that can shutdown the best players.  Play Kulak with Hamilton, since he's pretty smart at knowing when to back off.  PLay Brodie with Stone as a third pair, or at least no more minutes that Hamilton.  Brodie is not currently the 3rd best player out there, so he should not be playing the 2nd most minutes. 

I like those pairings and think they are definitely worth a try.  At the very least it'll serve notice that things need to change and get the players' attention.  It'll also allow a much better evaluation of Hamonic which we also sorely need.

[nevermissashift]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think our current defensive depth chart is as follows:

 

Giordano

Hamonic

Stone

Hamilton

Brodie

Kulak

 

Kulak doesn't get enough minutes yet to move up this chart and he is still prone to the odd brain cramp, I don't know if that is due to just being a rookie or if he lacks the high end hockey iq.

At this point in the season I think Kulak should be after Stone on your list.

If I see a player with tenacity, brain cramps or not, he is worth more to me than lazy talent with IQ.

I think the key element in any player or team is true Inspiration.

How do you inspire a team?

 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think our current defensive depth chart is as follows:

 

Giordano

Hamonic

Stone

Hamilton

Brodie

Kulak

 

Kulak doesn't get enough minutes yet to move up this chart and he is still prone to the odd brain cramp, I don't know if that is due to just being a rookie or if he lacks the high end hockey iq.

 

Every single one of these guys has a brain cramp.  Some more than others.  Kulak has a better first pass in trouble spots than most of these guys.  Where he gets into trouble is trying to jump up on the play.  He gets burned because of it and it looks worse because Stone is slow.  Pair him with a guy that can skate, and the gaffes won't look as bad.

The other thing about Kulak is that he rarely takes penalties for losing a guy.      

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I believe you are very far off as far as the goalies go.  .......

 

ok for serious...it's a different thread.  Yes I made a couple comments about goalies but at no point did I steer the conversation there.  

 

There is a lot more to this than goaltending, and that's why we have this thread.

[nevermissashift]

The current defensive chart looks like this to me (as of February 17,2018):

 

Harmonic

Giordano

Kulak

Stone

Hamilton

Brodie

 

I still think DHam and Br0D look Lazy. They don't have the teeth that the other guys do. Confidence and poise are no substitute for a sense of urgency, and hunger.

 

[DHT]

4 minutes ago, nevermissashift said:

The current defensive chart looks like this to me (as of February 17,2018):

 

Harmonic

Giordano

Kulak

Stone

Hamilton

Brodie

 

I still think DHam and Br0D look Lazy. They don't have the teeth that the other guys do. Confidence and poise are no substitute for a sense of urgency, and hunger.

 

I agree with you that Brodie is our weakest link.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, nevermissashift said:

The current defensive chart looks like this to me (as of February 17,2018):

 

Harmonic

Giordano

Kulak

Stone

Hamilton

Brodie

 

I still think DHam and Br0D look Lazy. They don't have the teeth that the other guys do. Confidence and poise are no substitute for a sense of urgency, and hunger.

 

I don't know that either is lazy, smooth skaters can appear to be lazy because certain aspects of the game come easier to them. Do both players have weaknesses yes. I don't think we will ever see Hamilton be a mean aggressive checker. Brodie tries to be aggressive in the D zone but lacks the size and IMO is or has become very indecisive with a lot of his play.

BTW it is Hamonic not Harmonic. I know you were likely thinking of all the harmony within our defense ranks. LOL

[nevermissashift]

20 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't know that either is lazy, smooth skaters can appear to be lazy because certain aspects of the game come easier to them. Do both players have weaknesses yes. I don't think we will ever see Hamilton be a mean aggressive checker. Brodie tries to be aggressive in the D zone but lacks the size and IMO is or has become very indecisive with a lot of his play.

BTW it is Hamonic not Harmonic. I know you were likely thinking of all the harmony within our defense ranks. LOL

Ya, I partially agree with what you say... they look lazy but not just in a smooth skater way. I see them hesitating on the puck; waiting for the puck to come. That is not a good idea for any type of player. To take control, you need to initiate the play. Look at Goodrow, he is a gifted skater, and he is gifted with gumption; you don't see him lollygag very often, nor for very long.

[MAC331]

36 minutes ago, nevermissashift said:

Ya, I partially agree with what you say... they look lazy but not just in a smooth skater way. I see them hesitating on the puck; waiting for the puck to come. That is not a good idea for any type of player. To take control, you need to initiate the play. Look at Goodrow, he is a gifted skater, and he is gifted with gumption; you don't see him lollygag very often, nor for very long.

All I will say is you don't get to be considered a top 4 defenseman by being lazy so you may not like what you see at times but both are good talents.

As for Gaudreau I think he is an exciting player but he coughs up the puck way to much for my liking.

[nevermissashift]

Absolutely! DHam and BroD have made a rep for themselves, and I agree I don't like what I see now because they are not biting down for whatever reasons. You know how that goes; out of a pool of excellent players, different guys prefer different players because of their approach to the game.

 

I'm not the world's biggest Goodroe fan either but I am starting to like his spirit. He tries to go that extra mile. I wish he would push the throttle in just a couple of notches so he could increase his control a bit. He often tries his luck handling through traffic when it isn't always necessary. He has got league recognized tools, he just needs to use them in a few more ways. He is already having good success but he doesn't seem like the kind that thinks good is good enough.

[robrob74]

There was just a very interesting segment with Eric Francis on the Fan. They were talking about Hamonic’s time with the Flames. Hamonic is saying it’s his best year in his career. 

Do they went into Hamonic and Brodie as pair. In covering for Brodie, Hamonic gets blame for most of the gaffs. Hamonic told Francis that he goes over his game tape and he is quite happy with his own play. 

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, robrob74 said:

There was just a very interesting segment with Eric Francis on the Fan. They were talking about Hamonic’s time with the Flames. Hamonic is saying it’s his best year in his career. 

Do they went into Hamonic and Brodie as pair. In covering for Brodie, Hamonic gets blame for most of the gaffs. Hamonic told Francis that he goes over his game tape and he is quite happy with his own play. 

 

You must be joking me.  Or better yet, Hamonic must be joking us.  He feels this is his best year ever?  If he's happy with his own play, then he needs to go.  He just moved himself to the top of our trade list.

[nevermissashift]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

You must be joking me.  Or better yet, Hamonic must be joking us.  He feels this is his best year ever?  If he's happy with his own play, then he needs to go.  He just moved himself to the top of our trade list.

Maybe he wants to be at the top of the tradelist. It seems like there are some wrenches stuck in the Flames organization. They need to be removed before the team can contend. Who and what are those 'wrenches'? I don't think it's a case of replacing this player or that player.

[redfire11]

In my opinion watching Harmonic every game he is our best defense man behind Gio. I would like to see a d pairing of

Gio/Harmonic

Brodie/Hamilton

[conundrumed]

22 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

In my opinion watching Harmonic every game he is our best defense man behind Gio. I would like to see a d pairing of

Gio/Harmonic

Brodie/Hamilton

The problem is the 2nd pair, who will save them from themselves?

We saw it last night, Gio leads the rush in deep, Hamilton decides that's a good time to pinch.

[DHT]

31 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

In my opinion watching Harmonic every game he is our best defense man behind Gio. I would like to see a d pairing of

Gio/Harmonic

Brodie/Hamilton

I completely agree with you with the exception on pairing Brodie with Hamilton. Gio covered for Hamilton's mistakes and Hamonic covered for Brodie's mistakes. Brodie and Hamonic combo is like watching a bad marriage trying to be together when in fact, divorce is the best things for them. I'm surprised that GG did not try to put, Brodie with Stone, and Kulak with Hamonic, and spread the D evenly for these two pairs rather than forcing them into #3 and #4 Ds respectively. GG logic and decision making is questionable all season. I think that the entire coaching staffs should be gone this summer and one player at the top of list to be traded is Brodie.