Flames Live Prospect Tracker

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

 

You have lots of time.  Teams and names please.

 

I’m not saying the Flames have a good or great drafting/development record.  I’m simply asking for teams and names (6) who you think have done it better since 2011.  JJ keeps saying we don’t know what we’re doing and we’ve been doing the same thing for 30 years, so show us.  Lottery picks skew the results and we have never gotten one so I’ve eliminated them, no top 3.  If it makes you feel better, put the lottery picks as 7,8,9.

You have picked;

ANA, Rakell, Gibson, Manson, Lindholm, Ritchie and Montour.  Karlsson and Anderson are gone.

TB, Palat, Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Nemstienkov, Paquette, Point.  Drouin was a top 3 plus he is gone.

 

I don't understand your analysis so we'll have to agree to disagree here. Your basically building a model they will give unfair credit to the flames. 

Not every draft is equal either. For example had Tkachuk been in the RNH draft he's likely go number 1. So now flames get mor credit for drafting him 6 and oilers get penalized for taking RNH 1? 

Makes no sense. 

[CheersMan]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't understand your analysis so we'll have to agree to disagree here. Your basically building a model they will give unfair credit to the flames. 

Not every draft is equal either. For example had Tkachuk been in the RNH draft he's likely go number 1. So now flames get mor credit for drafting him 6 and oilers get penalized for taking RNH 1? 

Makes no sense. 

That’s fine, you can bow out.

For the rest who want to partake and demonstrate that other teams have faired better in the draft than the Flames.  Name the teams and their 6 best drafted players they still control who were not top 3 (lottery picks), since the 2011 draft.

[cccsberg]

On 2017-10-18 at 2:44 PM, JTech780 said:

Hunter Smith was just demoted to the ECHL. The 2014 draft isn't turning out too great for anyone, but Calgary in particular. Smith draft choice looks especially bad when you look at the fact that Brandon Montour was drafted directly after Smith and Christian Dvorak was taken a few picks later. Montour especially would look nice on this blueline.

Yeah, happens all the time.  Unfortunately HS never developed further.

[Fins&FIre15]

2011

Pick 57: Tyler Wotherspoon

Pick 58: Nikita Kucherov

 

._. ...T~T

 

 

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, Fins&FIre15 said:

2011

Pick 57: Tyler Wotherspoon

Pick 58: Nikita Kucherov

 

._. ...T~T

 

The killer is that we, and every other team, had everything we needed to know at that time.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?season=2010&leagueid=MHL&pos=&leagueteam=&teamname=&nation=&nationname=&age=u18&prospects=

 

For reference, this Doesn't happen in the MHL.  Ever.  Kids under 18 do Not put up these numbers.

 

Teams are just terrified these kids might not sign, I guess.      It still happens now, you see it every draft.  At least the Flames have made some big improvements here.

[AlbertaBoy12]

We cant judge every pick, its like a lottery ticket and sometimes you lose. I would have loved to see other players drafted some years but hindsight is 20/20, im sure there is a good reason the flames picked smith over montour and dvorak for example. That good reason might be they were hoping his size and skill might translate well, he did have a huge upswing in points, but who knows.

[cross16]

On 10/28/2017 at 6:43 PM, AlbertaBoy12 said:

We cant judge every pick, its like a lottery ticket and sometimes you lose. I would have loved to see other players drafted some years but hindsight is 20/20, im sure there is a good reason the flames picked smith over montour and dvorak for example. That good reason might be they were hoping his size and skill might translate well, he did have a huge upswing in points, but who knows.

 

Flames, IMO at least, don't scout the USHL very well where Montour was playing in his draft year. Yes I know they drafted Johny out of it but outside of that their exposure to the USHL is minimal and most of the picks they've taken from there tend to be under whelming. 

 

Dvorak is tough because that could have been medical. He shredded his knee in his draft year so there was most definitely a fair bit of risk in making that pick and I think there is also a good chance that's one you turn over to your medical staff and let them make the call. That or perhaps coming out of the USHL, again they didn't have the greatest read on him?

 

End of the day every team will miss. Sure Tampa took Kucherov int he 2nd round but they also took Brett Connolly 6th ahead of Cam Fowler, Mikael Granlund and Jeff Skinner. You will miss but it's what you learn from the misses. I think so far, it's pretty clear to me the Flames learned after the Smith pick that you cannot overrate size when it comes to the draft and that skill is more important. 2015 on has been a noticeable change in the drafting trend. 

[cross16]

On 10/28/2017 at 4:29 PM, jjgallow said:

 

The killer is that we, and every other team, had everything we needed to know at that time.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?season=2010&leagueid=MHL&pos=&leagueteam=&teamname=&nation=&nationname=&age=u18&prospects=

 

For reference, this Doesn't happen in the MHL.  Ever.  Kids under 18 do Not put up these numbers.

 

Teams are just terrified these kids might not sign, I guess.      It still happens now, you see it every draft.  At least the Flames have made some big improvements here.

 

Sort of... like you said. Will he sign?

 

Flames liked him and wanted him but they weren't comfortable where to slot him because he was still under contract to his Russian team. Fair to argue they were too conservative because I mean even if you never see him is that not worth the risk in the 2nd round over a player like Wotherspoon who was never going to be anything more than a 3rd pairing dman? did Button getting burned by taking too many of these Russians early in his career he's backed off?

 

I think the threat of not signing is real, but my response to that would be once your in the 2nd round does the matter? In most draft's i'd lean towards no, especially when you look at what they payoff has been with Kucherov. 

 

[jjgallow]

22 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think the threat of not signing is real, but my response to that would be once your in the 2nd round does the matter? In most draft's i'd lean towards no, especially when you look at what they payoff has been with Kucherov. 

 

 

exactly.   Everything in the 2nd round and below is far from a certain thing anyway.  The greatest risk is whether they can reach their potential (which very few can).  The next biggest risk is whether they have the potential (which very few do).    Signing issues do present a risk but it is way down the ladder.

[JTech780]

Just thought I would bring up D'Artagnan Joly. He had a slow start to the season but is starting to pick it up now, he is up to 60 points in 47 games in the Q. He is a RHS C/RW, who is 6'3" 181lbs. Flames might have found a diamond in the rough here.

[420since1974]

I think that he is eligible to play one more season in the QMJHL, but I'm guessing that he will play in Stockton next season.

The scouting reports say that he is a good skater, checks most of the boxes, just needs to learn to use his teammates a little more.

If he can gain weight/strength and improve his defence a bit, he could be a real gem as a 6th round draft pick.

[conundrumed]

On 3/1/2018 at 9:49 PM, 420since1974 said:

I think that he is eligible to play one more season in the QMJHL, but I'm guessing that he will play in Stockton next season.

The scouting reports say that he is a good skater, checks most of the boxes, just needs to learn to use his teammates a little more.

If he can gain weight/strength and improve his defence a bit, he could be a real gem as a 6th round draft pick.

Of the 3 CHL leagues, I find the Q the hardest to read players from, as it's the least physical league overall.

Unless you're a MacKinnon or a Crosby, it's the hardest league to gauge based on a player's point production.

I find it's the O, then the dub, and then the Q in terms of how reliable point production might translate.

Not saying they don't all have busts, just the reliability in translating to the pros.

Something else also, is Gawdin tearing up the dub.

Don't get excited by the point production, like, at all.

Over-agers do it a lot. I don't expect anything more than an AHL ceiling, tbh.

[cross16]

On 3/1/2018 at 7:49 PM, 420since1974 said:

I think that he is eligible to play one more season in the QMJHL, but I'm guessing that he will play in Stockton next season.

The scouting reports say that he is a good skater, checks most of the boxes, just needs to learn to use his teammates a little more.

If he can gain weight/strength and improve his defence a bit, he could be a real gem as a 6th round draft pick.

 

Guess we'll see, but my quess is he'll go back to the Q.  He is intriguing but from what I've seen he is very raw both in terms of his body and his skill set. His a little on the skinny side so you are looking for him to fill out, which I think will really help him as he's got a great reach and physical nature so he could turn himself into a decent power forward style but at his current size that would be tough. I look for him to play at probably over 200Lbs. 

 

Good skill set and he's been fun to watch whenever i've seen him but like I said just raw. I think he follows the Jankowski path where you just let him develop, grow, build up strength. It looks like he is starting to put it together but when you are int he Q you basically need to be a PPG or better to even be considered a legitimate prospect so the numbers are encouraging but hard to get too excited about. 

[JTech780]

On 01/03/2018 at 7:49 PM, 420since1974 said:

I think that he is eligible to play one more season in the QMJHL, but I'm guessing that he will play in Stockton next season.

The scouting reports say that he is a good skater, checks most of the boxes, just needs to learn to use his teammates a little more.

If he can gain weight/strength and improve his defence a bit, he could be a real gem as a 6th round draft pick.

 

He is too young to play in the AHL next year, he would have to play another season in the Q.

[420since1974]

I stand corrected.

He will just turn 19 next month.

For the AHL, he would have to be 20 by December 31, 2018, or have 4 seasons in the CHL

[travel_dude]

A reasonable article/blog on Flames that could turn pro:

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2018/03/08/nine-flames-prospects-possibly-going-pro-in-2018-19/

[The_People1]

On 3/9/2018 at 0:29 PM, travel_dude said:

A reasonable article/blog on Flames that could turn pro:

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2018/03/08/nine-flames-prospects-possibly-going-pro-in-2018-19/

 

I would like to see the Flames bring Tuulola back to North America.  RHS RW with size.

 

Also, by most accounts, Zach Fischer sounds like one of those heart and soul guys that every NHL team needs.  He could turn into anything from a 2nd line RW to a 4th line energy guy.  I would like to see the Flames start developing him in the AHL.  RHS RW with size.  

 

 

[bosn111]

The issue of wether or not you bring people over or up to play in Stockton depends on who you keep in the system. 

 

Most likely, the Flames will open a couple of spots on the big club due to expiring contracts not being renewed. Stajan, Versteeg, Glass, Stewart and Bartkowski will likely be moving on from the team. This opens up multiple contract spaces and positions to be filled even though only 1 is currently a full time game spot.

 

On expiring contracts currently in the system, less likely to be renewed would be Proult, Gazdic, Goloubef. Possible move ons Poirier, Wotherspoon, Smith, Carroll. Without moving out a goalie, at least 2 solid prospects will need to be playing ECHL. To make room for both Valimaki and Fox, at least Bartkowski and 1 of Wotherspoon, Proult  and Goloubef have to leave. Either that or trade someone else like Stone, Brodie, Healey or Kylington.

 

Andersson, Healey, Valimakii and Kylington are the only Non-current NHL Roster D under NHL contract for next season. I don't know who else they will bring back. Who knows what will happen.  More space open for Forwards but not necessarily for all of them without moves being made.

[cross16]

We'll see what happens but I'm pretty sure I read that Tuulola signed an extension until 2020 in the Finnish league and combined with the fact they have Foo, Porier (doubt they move on yet), Gawdin (needs to play in the A next year), smith, Carrol all under contract I think it would be smart to leave Tuulola in Europe. From all accounts he's playing a lot and getting good opportunities so leaving him there is not a bad thing. 

[420since1974]

Dillon Dube - Center - Kelowna Rockets 

34 goals, 43 assists, 77 points in 51 games

Zach Fischer - Right Wing - Spokane Chiefs

22 goals, 14 assists, 36 points in 46 games

Glenn Gawdin - Center - Swift Current Broncos

56 goals, 68 assists, 124 points in 66 games

Matthew Phillips - Right Wing - Victoria Royals

47 goals, 64 assists, 111 points in 69 games

Nick Schneider - Goaltender - Calgary Hitmen

19-29-10 with a 3.68 GAA and a .885 save percentage

Juuso Valimaki - Defence - Tri-City Americans

13 goals, 25 assists, 38 points in 39 games

 

I can envision all six of our WHL prospects turning pro and playing in the ECHL or AHL next season.

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

Dillon Dube - Center - Kelowna Rockets 

34 goals, 43 assists, 77 points in 51 games

Zach Fischer - Right Wing - Spokane Chiefs

22 goals, 14 assists, 36 points in 46 games

Glenn Gawdin - Center - Swift Current Broncos

56 goals, 68 assists, 124 points in 66 games

Matthew Phillips - Right Wing - Victoria Royals

47 goals, 64 assists, 111 points in 69 games

Nick Schneider - Goaltender - Calgary Hitmen

19-29-10 with a 3.68 GAA and a .885 save percentage

Juuso Valimaki - Defence - Tri-City Americans

13 goals, 25 assists, 38 points in 39 games

 

I can envision all six of our WHL prospects turning pro and playing in the ECHL or AHL next season.

 

They all basically have to. Fischer, Gawdin and Schneider will be too old and Dube, Phillips and Valamki are too good. I'll be absolutely shocked if any of those 3 are back in the CHL next year. 

[JTech780]

Dillon Dube and his Kelowna Rockets play Jusso Valimaki and the Tri-City Americans in the first round of the WHL playoffs. I am guessing that the loser will get ticket to Stockton to finish the year with the Heat, which is an alright consolation prize.

[travel_dude]

Here's a link to the different matchups of all the Flames prospects:

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/chl-playoff-preview/c-297089670

[cross16]

Glen Gawdin and Matthew Phillips are 1st team WHL Division All-Star. Jusso Valamaki a 2nd team Division All Star as is Dillon Dube.

 

 

[cross16]

If you wanted to rank the underrated or forgotten prospects in the organization he would top my list. Every time I've seen him i've liked him. Still has a long ways to go but their are encouraging signs, especially for a 7th round pick.