Goaltending

[Zirakzigil]

Ramo is supposed to be playing tonight. The last 2 games hes played have been great.

[jjgallow]

The last 2 games hes played have been great.

 

I've seen one game so far this year, not 2, that I would classify as "good" from Ramo, and there were a lot, and I mean, a Lot...of posts in that game.

 

He deserves some more games for sure.   But with what I've seen so far, and his un-movable contract, I still see the most likely outcome is that Ramo is our backup.  If it were anyone else, I would expect them to get sent down after a few more games to give him a fair shake.

[ScottMacMahon]

I've seen one game so far this year, not 2, that I would classify as "good" from Ramo, and there were a lot, and I mean, a Lot...of posts in that game.

 

He deserves some more games for sure.   But with what I've seen so far, and his un-movable contract, I still see the most likely outcome is that Ramo is our backup.  If it were anyone else, I would expect them to get sent down after a few more games to give him a fair shake.

 

Way too small of sample size to be making conclusions like that. In my opinion Ramo has been good. Not great, but solid. There is only so much he can do, especially when our defence and defensive structure has just been in shambles of late. How many breakaways has he stopped? What do you expect him to do when an open man is left open right in front of the net, like the first goal last night, or the Burns goal in san jose, etc...

 

Sending a goalie down after he has played THREE games with absolutely sh*t defences is ridiculous. Give him half the season before you even BEGIN to think of that.

[geos]

He was as bad before though. He's not some rookie we're testing out. He's a veteran that is trying to prove he is as awful as the first time he flunked out of the league. We haven't really seen that yet. He's been insufficent in all but one game. He is living up to his broader sample size of not being an NHL calibre goalie.

 

Ramo is a goalie with 52 NHL games. His Sv%/GAA has regressed even worse than the pitiful level it was at (and Tampa Bay was weak defensively then too).

 

This is not a rookie. This is an experienced goalie with 52 games of insufficent ability to play in the NHL. He needs to show consistency in a good way in a hurry or he should be done (though he won't be, because Feaster offered him some absurd deal).

 

If he plays like he did in the the one good game for 5 or 6 in a row, then maybe you have an NHL goalie. I've seen no evidence whatsoever of NHL consistency from him.

[ScottMacMahon]

He was as bad before though. He's not some rookie we're testing out. He's a veteran that is trying to prove he is as awful as the first time he flunked out of the league. We haven't really seen that yet. He's been insufficent in all but one game. He is living up to his broader sample size of not being an NHL calibre goalie.

 

Ramo is a goalie with 52 NHL games. His Sv%/GAA has regressed even worse than the pitiful level it was at (and Tampa Bay was weak defensively then too).

 

This is not a rookie. This is an experienced goalie with 52 games of insufficent ability to play in the NHL. He needs to show consistency in a good way in a hurry or he should be done (though he won't be, because Feaster offered him some absurd deal).

 

If he plays like he did in the the one good game for 5 or 6 in a row, then maybe you have an NHL goalie. I've seen no evidence whatsoever of NHL consistency from him.

 

Those 52 NHL games are absolutely irrelevant IMO. Took place WAY too long ago, isn't even a factor imo. You say that you want to see consistency from him over 5 or 6 games in a row, but there is no evidence of that. 

 

Um, yah... thats probably because he has only played 3 games? And only 2 in a row. Give him a chance to show some consistency before you jump all over him, my god. 

 

I don't know what games you guys have been watching, but Ramo has been hung out to dry on most of the goals he has let in. Of course there are a couple of exceptions. But that isn't even to mention the atrocious PK we have and the riduclous amount of penalties we have been taking. His EV SV% is respectable. That gives me reason to believe that he has the ability to be a respectable goalie, and show consistency if given a chance. Disagree if you want, but I know you've had it out for him before he even played a game with the Flames, so I'll respectfully ignore your opinion until I see him play more.

[phoenix66]

Those 52 NHL games are absolutely irrelevant IMO. Took place WAY too long ago, isn't even a factor imo. You say that you want to see consistency from him over 5 or 6 games in a row, but there is no evidence of that. 

 

Um, yah... thats probably because he has only played 3 games? And only 2 in a row. Give him a chance to show some consistency before you jump all over him, my god. 

 

I don't know what games you guys have been watching, but Ramo has been hung out to dry on most of the goals he has let in. Of course there are a couple of exceptions. But that isn't even to mention the atrocious PK we have and the riduclous amount of penalties we have been taking. His EV SV% is respectable. That gives me reason to believe that he has the ability to be a respectable goalie, and show consistency if given a chance. Disagree if you want, but I know you've had it out for him before he even played a game with the Flames, so I'll respectfully ignore your opinion until I see him play more.

I have to 100% agree with this. Its getting kind of old now. Ramo has not had 1 "good" game, hes had 2 good, one great and ill even concede one bad one..even tho yes, he was hung out to dry, , his job is to save us from those collapses.

Is he kipper? No..but from what ive seen hes a perfectly legitimate nhl goaltender.

Youre right, its obvious some people have a hate on for the guy before he ever got here and nothing will ever change that it seems short of winning a vezina trophy.

[jjgallow]

I'd just like to say that nobody here has "had it out" for Ramo.  And the only thing getting "old" is him.

 

I'm sure he's a great guy.

 

 

But...he's 50th overall for NHL goaltenders...and I'm being nice there by using his save percentage.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLGAGALL&viewName=summary&sort=savePercentage&pg=2

 

Even if he was a young prospect, I'm sorry...but this would be cause for concern.

 

I'd also like to say that nobody here had it out for Ramo PRIOR  to this year either.

 

There just weren't any compelling reasons to Like him, other than trusting Feaster, or trusting the KHL's award system, neither of which I do.

 

His numbers in the KHL were Never very good, he's just always had a very popular goaltending style that fans have appreciated.

 

Of the top 10 worst goals of all time on Youtube, he has at least 2 of them.  I didn't upload the videos, I just saw them is all.

 

His last NHL and AHL performance, as we know, was disastrous.

 

Although...I should note that his performance then was actually Better, stats-wise, then what he's giving us now.

 

There are Very few examples of sub-par KHL goalies coming to the NHL and doing well.

 

There are exactly Zero examples of goalies who were blown out in the NHL, sub-par in the KHL, and then did well coming back to the NHL.  Zero.

 

There just Weren't any good reasons, that I could see, to Like him, other than taking Feaster's word for it, which I rarely do.

 

If I am missing something, I apologize, but I've never had anything against him.  I've just failed to see what a few on here apparently see as reasons to favour him over Many other good goaltenders we already have in our system.  None of which are true NHL starters, but then neither is he.  At least not yet.  And he's not exactly making a case for himself right now.

 

I understand that we have brutal defense, brutal PKs, etc.  So do lots of other teams. 

 

What I don't understand is how people blatantly ignore the obvious fact that JMac has been subject to all these same conditions, and Doesn't get blown out.  He still finds us wins, he keeps his save percentage reasonable, and he's a great person.

 

So, maybe we should "back up" here.   Because if we were going strictly off merit, we'd be a lot more interested in JMac's success against all odds, than explaining Ramo's failures.   I might be inclined to suggest that some on here have it out for JMac.

[tmac70]

So how many goals has he let in that were either not tipped redirected or where he was left out to dry. Look our defense and d coverage is beyond terrible. Put either goalie on a team that has half decent d coverage and either guy is not that bad.

 

Frankly, goal tending we don't know what we have till either one of them gets some god damn support in the d end.  

[conundrumed]

Would have been nice to have drafted Maatta....along with Wotherspoon at least we'd have 2 young D-first Dmen....

Our forwards were in such disarray it needed focus, but it's been at the expense of D. With 30 minutes of JBo gone, it has certainly compounded the issue.

It's difficult to fault any goalie currently, but having instability in net is definitely not helping the mess at D. No point pretending our dmen match the caliber and mix of most other teams.

[jjgallow]

Frankly, goal tending we don't know what we have till either one of them gets some god damn support in the d end.  

 

True.   It's gonna take a while...2 years absolute minimum, imho

Would have been nice to have drafted Maatta....along with Wotherspoon at least we'd have 2 young D-first Dmen....

Our forwards were in such disarray it needed focus, but it's been at the expense of D. With 30 minutes of JBo gone, it has certainly compounded the issue.

It's difficult to fault any goalie currently, but having instability in net is definitely not helping the mess at D. No point pretending our dmen match the caliber and mix of most other teams.

 

100% agree.    Except for the part that our forwards needed focus.

 

I think what happened is that Feaster was getting direction to "patch" the team with a soft rebuild, this the focus on forwards.

 

Had we been "intellectually honest", we would have started our rebuild with defensemen.  They take much longer to develop.

[Carty]

It is not possible to judge a goaltender after only 3 games...  It's that simple...

 

The Flames have to, and will, give Ramo more games to see how he does...

 

Starting with Ramo, and then over time the Flames will also need to give different goalies enough games to see what they have and if any of them are going to pan out...   If only one does or perhaps even if none do, then they need to make changes...

 

At 33 years old J Mac is not going to be the starter of the future...   So they need to find one...  

 

Win or lose,  the Flames would be setting themselves up for future disaster by playing J Mac too much instead of seeing what else they have for options in order to secure the goaltender position for when the younger players are more developed and the rest of the team becomes more balanced, including the D...

[conundrumed]

True.   It's gonna take a while...2 years absolute minimum, imho

 

100% agree.    Except for the part that our forwards needed focus.

 

I think what happened is that Feaster was getting direction to "patch" the team with a soft rebuild, this the focus on forwards.

 

Had we been "intellectually honest", we would have started our rebuild with defensemen.  They take much longer to develop.

 

You'd argue our forward ranks and prospect pool for forwards were anything a short time ago?

[Ameter]

Are we allowed to send a player down to have 3 goalies up?

 

Do you expect to pull two goalies in one game? If not, then why would you do this?

[conundrumed]

Do you expect to pull two goalies in one game? If not, then why would you do this?

I know I'll be pulling my goalie if it's that tight, does that count? :huh:

 

But yeah, carry 3 goalies??

[kehatch]

The Flames have one legitimate goalie prospect in the system.  And Gilles is a long ways off.  I was an advocate of going after a guy like Bernier.  But most here didn't think it was worth spending assets on a young goalie until were were further along with the rebuild.  That has left us trying to find out what we have available to us.  Pulling the plug on our best option 4 games in would be very silly.    

 

We know what we have in MacDonald.  If we want to guarantee mediocre tending than he is the guy to go with.  Berra, Ramo, Brossoit, and Ortio are all guys we have in the system that are long shots but are also guys that could surprise and prove to be starting NHL goalies.  Brossoit is clearly not ready.  I don't think Ortio is either.  If the Flames decided to give Berra a shot I would have been fine with it.  But giving Ramo a reasonable number of starts to work things out makes a lot of sense.  

 

Despite what some people say Ramo was one of the best goalies in the KHL.  That is coming from people that actually watched the games as opposed to to those that are assigning absolutes based on the box scores.  The guy was a perennial KHL starting all star. Even by just the stats he was good.  Omsk sure misses him. They are 20 games in and have cycled through five goalies trying to find a starter.  That includes former NHLer Biron.  None have managed anywhere near a .900 SV%.  Ramo was always between 0.925 and 0.930.  I really don't see how anyone could make a claim that Ramo was a sub par goalie in the KHL.  

 

Given where he is in his development Ramo is probably our best bet to find a starter this season.  He hasn't been that bad.  His stats aren't very good, but neither is Mac's.  Ramo had the starts against the tougher teams with his first three starts against the Capitals, Sharks, and Kings.  I only fault him on one of the goals against Dallas.  I thought he was really good in the Kings game and for most of the Dallas game.  

 

Its a rebuild.  Patience people.  We can't be ready to throw a goalie under the bus after 4-starts.   

[jjgallow]

The Flames have one legitimate goalie prospect in the system.  And Gilles is a long ways off.  I was an advocate of going after a guy like Bernier.  But most here didn't think it was worth spending assets on a young goalie until were were further along with the rebuild.  That has left us trying to find out what we have available to us.  Pulling the plug on our best option 4 games in would be very silly.    

 

We know what we have in MacDonald.  If we want to guarantee mediocre tending than he is the guy to go with.  Berra, Ramo, Brossoit, and Ortio are all guys we have in the system that are long shots but are also guys that could surprise and prove to be starting NHL goalies.  Brossoit is clearly not ready.  I don't think Ortio is either.  If the Flames decided to give Berra a shot I would have been fine with it.  But giving Ramo a reasonable number of starts to work things out makes a lot of sense.  

 

Despite what some people say Ramo was one of the best goalies in the KHL.  That is coming from people that actually watched the games as opposed to to those that are assigning absolutes based on the box scores.  The guy was a perennial KHL starting all star. Even by just the stats he was good.  Omsk sure misses him. They are 20 games in and have cycled through five goalies trying to find a starter.  That includes former NHLer Biron.  None have managed anywhere near a .900 SV%.  Ramo was always between 0.925 and 0.930.  I really don't see how anyone could make a claim that Ramo was a sub par goalie in the KHL.  

 

Given where he is in his development Ramo is probably our best bet to find a starter this season.  He hasn't been that bad.  His stats aren't very good, but neither is Mac's.  Ramo had the starts against the tougher teams with his first three starts against the Capitals, Sharks, and Kings.  I only fault him on one of the goals against Dallas.  I thought he was really good in the Kings game and for most of the Dallas game.  

 

Its a rebuild.  Patience people.  We can't be ready to throw a goalie under the bus after 4-starts.   

 

I am just going to say that I disagree with a number of the points made in here.

 

It's probably not worth going around in circles at this point.

 

I do agree that it's far to early to make a decision on Ramo, and he needs more games.

[DirtyDeeds]

Well I have pretty much been on the fence towards the goaltenders. I have made up my mind it is pretty senseless to throw anyone under the bus this early in the season **. Our goalies haven't been lights out and they haven't really been terrible yet either.

 

Ramo played well tonight however. Well enough to deserve another start. Maybe if he can string a few good games together we can do what Hartley has envisioned for this team this season. Compete for a playoff spot for those that missed that message.

 

** Well maybe the Oiler fans can continue to throw both their goaltenders under their Oiler Bus but that is a different story & thread*

[travel_dude]

Well I have pretty much been on the fence towards the goaltenders. I have made up my mind it is pretty senseless to throw anyone under the bus this early in the season **. Our goalies haven't been lights out and they haven't really been terrible yet either.

 

Ramo played well tonight however. Well enough to deserve another start. Maybe if he can string a few good games together we can do what Hartley has envisioned for this team this season. Compete for a playoff spot for those that missed that message.

 

** Well maybe the Oiler fans can continue to throw both their goaltenders under their Oiler Bus but that is a different story & thread*

The weird thing is that the Flames current sit 17th in the League, tied with Montreal.  In the West, we sit 2 points back of 8th.

 

Hartley is winning in spite of some of his decisions.  The things he is to be applauded for are the following:

- Giving Ramo a shot 

- Going back with the Sven-Mony-Huds line

- Recognizing the skill of Colborne and rewarding him with decent line mates (Cammi and Gali)

- Using McGrats and Jackman sparingly of late

- Sensing the skill and compete level that Russell has

 

I hope that Hartley does understand that we need to see what the prospects have at the NHL level.  Butler and SOB are adequate (at times), but we have more in the pipe.  I can accept a trade for a top 2 potential defenseman, but only if that also is a long term solution.

Even if we are still in the playoff hunt by TDL, I really hope we don't trade for any short-term rental types.

[jjgallow]

Ramo did play well last night, particularly in the third.

[Louis23]

I say take advantage of the Ducks goalie situation. There is this guy Andersen who seems like he's gonna be good (already had very great numbers in the AHL) with Fasth and Hiller, so something's gotta give.

[phoenix66]

The weird thing is that the Flames current sit 17th in the League, tied with Montreal.  In the West, we sit 2 points back of 8th.

 

Hartley is winning in spite of some of his decisions.  The things he is to be applauded for are the following:

- Giving Ramo a shot 

- Going back with the Sven-Mony-Huds line

- Recognizing the skill of Colborne and rewarding him with decent line mates (Cammi and Gali)

- Using McGrats and Jackman sparingly of late

- Sensing the skill and compete level that Russell has

 

I hope that Hartley does understand that we need to see what the prospects have at the NHL level.  Butler and SOB are adequate (at times), but we have more in the pipe.  I can accept a trade for a top 2 potential defenseman, but only if that also is a long term solution.

Even if we are still in the playoff hunt by TDL, I really hope we don't trade for any short-term rental types.

 

Im going to slightly disagree. I would love to see us pick up a seasoned, top 2 dman. We need a stable teacher type back there, someone the kids can emulate.at the same time its gotta be someone that fits our system. Right now I dont know who that is, , nor would I give up the farm to get him. Giordano is great, but I think we need a respected vet back there on a short term deal, until we can ease the wothherspoons, the Seiloffs etc into the lineup full time. Pretty sure butler gets cut loose somehow after this season..that may be on the ufa shopping list.

 

I say take advantage of the Ducks goalie situation. There is this guy Andersen who seems like he's gonna be good (already had very great numbers in the AHL) with Fasth and Hiller, so something's gotta give.

Disagree..we need to run the gamut in our system first. I would agree if goaltending was costing us wins but so far that hasnt been the case

[conundrumed]

I say take advantage of the Ducks goalie situation. There is this guy Andersen who seems like he's gonna be good (already had very great numbers in the AHL) with Fasth and Hiller, so something's gotta give.

 

We should be looking to solidify our G spot, errr, goalie spot.

If Minny's tending were in Vancouver, we'd have a Schneider/Luongo predicament.

Harding's gotta be realizing he's been 2nd fiddle long enough, and Minnesota can't hold him back beyond this year I wouldn't think.

Not that we should race out and sell the farm, as Ramo is just entering into his chance to be our guy.

It would be horrible business to not give Ramo a real good shot, as we undoubtedly had to make a guarantee of it for him to leave Russia. But we should keep an ear to the ground for tending just in case.

I hope Ramo does well and we get to here analysts mutter over and over again about how they were wrong!

[Wreckening]

I say we stick with what we have but give Ramo the lion's share of the load.  MacDonald will be good trade bait to a team going into the playoffs without a solid back up.  Bring up Berra after the trade deadline and go from there.  We still have the likes of Ortio, Brossoit and Gillies in the pipeline so I would prefer we not go out looking for a No. 1 just yet.  We're just starting this rebuild lets see what we have talent-wise first before we start dropping dollars and picks on someone.

[conundrumed]

.  We're just starting this rebuild lets see what we have talent-wise first before we start dropping dollars and picks on someone.

 

I like all of your other points, but I'd consider picks/prospects for a goalie that is playing his way out of a backup role on a goalie-laden team.

Our history with developing goalies makes me very gun-shy.

[Wreckening]

I like all of your other points, but I'd consider picks/prospects for a goalie that is playing his way out of a backup role on a goalie-laden team.

Our history with developing goalies makes me very gun-shy.

I hear you on the development record, but I'd like to think we have the proper people in charge now to make sure that improves.  As for going out and getting a goalie this year I think you can write that off. I believe they've made a commitment to give it at least this season and see where everyone is at before even attempting to go outside the organization to acquire a goalie.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason though as there are some big name UFA's and RFA's hitting the market. With the cap more than likely going up it will leave Calgary in a very enviable position of being able to spend on a quality tender without giving up any picks or assets.  We'll just have to wait and see.