Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

[kehatch]

Ah well, Johnny drew a blank on that one. He did brilliantly to get this far, he looks like a little kid even with the other college boys. I don't think I've ever seen a boy look so identical to his Mum! 

 

Kid is like 5 feet tall and already has to deal with crap.  Now you are saying he looks like his mom!  Poor guy

 

Seriously though, he is 4-years younger then the winner.  I also think he deserved it more.  But tough to go up against the senior coming back from a broken leg.  Great job to Johnny.  

[The_People1]

Was confirmed by Johnny over his twitter account. Him as well as Bill Arnold will be staying for another year.

 

From a hockey standpoint, im happy with his decision. He should use this time to work on his defensive game and put on some weight.

 

From a fan standpoint, its too bad. I would really have enjoyed watching him play in abby!

 

I agree here.  From a hockey standpoint, I think it would be beneficial for him to play one more year against NCAA competition while he develops bulk and strength.  It takes time to adjust to a new body and weird things can happen when little guys put on weight.  They lose agility and evasiveness. They don't stick handle as well.  If they put on weight wrong, it can also affect their stanima.  Plus, it would be a great confidence booster for him to rack up some serious points against younger competition.  This will help him transition to the AHL later.

 

But speaking of the AHL, he could catch the eye of NHL scouts, if not already.  His agent would be smart to advise him to not sign with the Flames and go to the destination of his choice at the rookie maximum salary.  He plays LW and the Flames are stacked on the LW in terms of contracts.  There could be better opportunities elsewhere that could allow him to go straight into the NHL.

[jjgallow]

But speaking of the AHL, he could catch the eye of NHL scouts, if not already.  His agent would be smart to advise him to not sign with the Flames and go to the destination of his choice at the rookie maximum salary.  He plays LW and the Flames are stacked on the LW in terms of contracts.  There could be better opportunities elsewhere that could allow him to go straight into the NHL.

 

Wow, that's depressing.

 

After Tim Erixon, we know it can happen.

 

The good news:  We only have one young, talented LW:   Baertschi.

 

Hopefully the Flames will balance things out in the off-season.  Either by trading one of their top LW prospects for top prospects in other positions, or Preferably:  Trading some of their veteran LWs.

 

My hope:  Baertschi gets Rookie of the Year in 2014.

 

Gaudreau gets it in 2015.

 

Cammy and Tanguay will be long gone by then.  Cervenka...who knows.  

 

All I think it means, is that IF Baertschi and Gaudreau turn out, we have the correct number of LW prospects right now.

[kehatch]

But speaking of the AHL, he could catch the eye of NHL scouts, if not already.  His agent would be smart to advise him to not sign with the Flames and go to the destination of his choice at the rookie maximum salary.  He plays LW and the Flames are stacked on the LW in terms of contracts.  There could be better opportunities elsewhere that could allow him to go straight into the NHL.

 

There aren't many teams (if any) that are going to provide a better opportunity for a small young forward to make the NHL then the Flames.  As for us having too many LWers that is a non issue.  Not only can players be moved or play their off wing, but it will be two more seasons before Gaudreau can use his option to go to another team.

[jjgallow]

There aren't many teams (if any) that are going to provide a better opportunity for a small young forward to make the NHL then the Flames.  As for us having too many LWers that is a non issue.  Not only can players be moved or play their off wing, but it will be two more seasons before Gaudreau can use his option to go to another team.

 

I suppose this does mean that it's in the Flame's best interest to sign Gaudreau to the 2015 season, and if that's not happening, then trade his rights to a team that can.   I think we have the room.   The team needs to get bigger, and Gaudreau needs to show that he can be even more dominant while putting on strength and weight.   But, maybe it's fair to say that, for contractual reasons if nothing else, we can expect Gaudreau in the NHL by 2015.   It would be foolish for the Flames to keep him past that point if they don't have him signed.   We learned that the hard way with Erixon.

[jjgallow]

Watching the award ceremony.  Man those kids look nervous.  

 

EDIT: Not a big surprise, goes to LeBlanc.  Still a huge deal for Gaudreau to make the final three as a sophmore.  

 

Not a big surprise, no.  But I feel that Gaudreau was clearly the best US College hockey player this year.

 

I feel they gave it to Leblanc because it was his last year to win it.   Gaudreau, they probably figure he has three more years to win it anyway.  

 

Appears fairly political, with preference for older, undrafted players.

 

I believe that of the three finalists, I would have picked Gaudreau as first, Hartzell as 2nd, and any number of players who didn't make the final three as third.  Or Leblanc as third.

 

If the Flames adamantly believe that they don't have enough goaltenders (?), then Hartzell would be a good prospect to sign.

[kehatch]

Not a big surprise, no.  But I feel that Gaudreau was clearly the best US College hockey player this year.

 

I feel they gave it to Leblanc because it was his last year to win it.   Gaudreau, they probably figure he has three more years to win it anyway.  

 

Appears fairly political, with preference for older, undrafted players.

 

I believe that of the three finalists, I would have picked Gaudreau as first, Hartzell as 2nd, and any number of players who didn't make the final three as third.  Or Leblanc as third.

 

If the Flames adamantly believe that they don't have enough goaltenders (?), then Hartzell would be a good prospect to sign.

 

I agree that he was the best candidate.  But age and the broken leg story got LeBlanc the votes.  

 

I don't think the Flames are adamant that we need more goalies.  I think they are adamant we need more NHL ready goalies.  I don't know enough about Hartzell to say for sure.  But I don't see him being a better option then our older guys (Ramo, Berra) or our younger guys (Gilles, Broissoitt, Ortio).  

[jjgallow]

I agree that he was the best candidate.  But age and the broken leg story got LeBlanc the votes.  

 

I don't think the Flames are adamant that we need more goalies.  I think they are adamant we need more NHL ready goalies.  I don't know enough about Hartzell to say for sure.  But I don't see him being a better option then our older guys (Ramo, Berra) or our younger guys (Gilles, Broissoitt, Ortio).  

 

I think he is a better option now than Ramo and Berra, personally.  He's not a better option than our younger guys, no.

 

One reason for the discrepancy is that I'm already looking at the 2015 season (case in point, this is likely when Gaudreau enters the scene).  I don't mean to be a pessimist, I just mean to be a realist.  You just don't go from last place to Stanley cup during one off-season.

 

My prediction is that by 2015, we'll be done with Ramo, Berra, MacD, Kipper, Irving etc.  Shame about Irving.

 

I'm hoping that one of our younger goalies emerge by then.  Which one, I don't know.   Personally, I think we have enough in that Category.  I still include Taylor in that category based on his progressive improvement.    But for those who disagree, I think Hartzell would be a good assurance signing.

[kehatch]

I think he is a better option now than Ramo and Berra, personally.  He's not a better option than our younger guys, no.

 

Be honest though.  You clearly have a bias for the young underdog.  I am guessing you probably weren't a big fan when the Flames gave up a 2-round pick for a 27-year old Kipper.  Probably had some 22 year old that nobody every heard of that you were hoping the Flames would sign   (saying that in jest).  

 

I think a guy like Ramo has a MUCH better chance of proving to be an NHL starter next season then Hartzell.  Hartzell would be a future prospect and I think we have better options in the system.  

 

If the Flames aren't confident in Ramo/Berra/MacDonald/Kipper then they aren't going to spend another NHL contract on another unknown.  Chances they will go after an established goalie.   

[jjgallow]

I was a huge fan of the Flames acquiring Kipper, who had Just turned 26 one month before the signing, and no, he was not proven

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1663056

 

The Flames also were a young team with a lot of pieces put together at that time.

 

Coming off the Vernon retirement, goaltending was one area they still needed to address.

 

Had they addressed it pre-maturely, they would not have received the 9th-overall pick in 2003, which become Dion Phaneuf.

 

Sutter realized that he had a team on the up-swing when he gave away that 2nd-round pick (Marc-Edouard Vlasic).  It made sense.

 

To suggest that we would forego other areas of improvement and inflate our team's true performance next year via a top goaltender, is not something I would support.  If we have a shot at the cup next year, then fine.  But otherwise, I'd rather focus on our forwards, our defence, and a top center.  Maybe do it like Pittsburg, and get two top-centers.

 

 

When we become that 2003-2004 team, and if our goaltending is still as much of an issue, then let's spend that big 2nd-rounder.  But until then, let's hold off on handing out our 2nd-round picks for blind shots in the dark at a potential future need that we haven't quantified yet.

 

Yes, I'm talking about Ramo.

 

And yes, if you work out the math, we traded Iginla for Ramo.  Let's stop doing that for the moment.

[DirtyDeeds]

I don't see why the Flames would trade draft picks / players and ask for prospect goalies only to turn around and sign a NHL ready one now. It appears to me they are going to put them all in the training camp / preseason and let them play their way on / off the roster type competition.

 

I suppose that could change if the right guy surfaced say with roster / cap cuts / buyouts but it doesn't appear that way to me right now.

[TrippinVdUb]

I don't see why the Flames would trade draft picks / players and ask for prospect goalies only to turn around and sign a NHL ready one now. It appears to me they are going to put them all in the training camp / preseason and let them play their way on / off the roster type competition.

 

I suppose that could change if the right guy surfaced say with roster / cap cuts / buyouts but it doesn't appear that way to me right now.

Im not so sure that managment has any idea right now what there going to do in net, I think they look at the possibility of Kipper leaving and the fact that there is no one there to take over the role and panic has set in. Now instead of going out and over paying an aging vet or sighning a well known back up they are gonna throw the dice with the best unkowns they can find and hope they hit it big. 

[Keyro]

Isn't this the Johnny Gaudreau thread?

[jjgallow]

Isn't this the Johnny Gaudreau thread?

 

Whoops sorry.

 

Go Gaudreau!!!

[PokernHockey]

I was a huge fan of the Flames acquiring Kipper, who had Just turned 26 one month before the signing, and no, he was not proven

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1663056

 

The Flames also were a young team with a lot of pieces put together at that time.

 

Coming off the Vernon retirement, goaltending was one area they still needed to address.

 

Had they addressed it pre-maturely, they would not have received the 9th-overall pick in 2003, which become Dion Phaneuf.

 

Sutter realized that he had a team on the up-swing when he gave away that 2nd-round pick (Marc-Edouard Vlasic).  It made sense.

 

To suggest that we would forego other areas of improvement and inflate our team's true performance next year via a top goaltender, is not something I would support.  If we have a shot at the cup next year, then fine.  But otherwise, I'd rather focus on our forwards, our defence, and a top center.  Maybe do it like Pittsburg, and get two top-centers.

 

 

When we become that 2003-2004 team, and if our goaltending is still as much of an issue, then let's spend that big 2nd-rounder.  But until then, let's hold off on handing out our 2nd-round picks for blind shots in the dark at a potential future need that we haven't quantified yet.

 

Yes, I'm talking about Ramo.

 

And yes, if you work out the math, we traded Iginla for Ramo.  Let's stop doing that for the moment.

 

I feel like that is a bit of revisionist history.  The flames were no closer to a playoff team until kipper came into the fold in 03/04 then they were the year earlier. On the day we acquired kipper, we were in 14th place based on points, 12th based on points per game. The year before we ended in 12th place. http://dropyourgloves.com/Games/AnyDateStandings.aspx?Date=2011-11-17&League=1  Based on the timing of the trade, we only acquired him because of injuries at the position. Would we have acquired him if not?  Sutter knew him from his time with the sharks, but kipper didn't exactly get many starts under sutter in the shark tank. and we had a solid backup already. Turek was also the starter and Vernon the backup the year before Vernon retired. Turek was also heralded as a legitimate #1 goalie rather then the old stopgap measure that the flames had been employing in the nets the years before.

In addition to that, a few years earlier we acquired Roman Turek. Kipper was similar to the pick up of Ramo [both were 5th round picks traded for a second that were unproven at the NHL level], and he caught fire, whereas Turek was a proven #1 goalie. Based on that, this years team is in a similar position as the flames of 03/04 pre-kipper.  We have a proven NHL starter who isn't getting it done consistently with a team in front of him that nobody considered to be very good (kipper now, turek then).  Kipper was picked up to back up Mclennan until Turek healed, Ramo was picked up to potentially play in the NHL post kipper.  When we picked up Ramo last year, we were actually closer to the playoffs then when we picked up kipper. in November of the 03/04 season I do not think that anyone considered the flames to be a goalie away from the Stanley cup finals. The chemistry that resulted from the confidence in kippers play was unreal.

I also do not see how your math works out to 'we traded Iggy for Ramo.'

Ramo was aquired along with Cammy for BORK and a (mid) 2nd.

iggy was traded for a (late) 1st and two quality prospects (without much name recognition).

 

2nd rounder=1st rounder+2 prospects?

[travel_dude]

I suppose this does mean that it's in the Flame's best interest to sign Gaudreau to the 2015 season, and if that's not happening, then trade his rights to a team that can.   I think we have the room.   The team needs to get bigger, and Gaudreau needs to show that he can be even more dominant while putting on strength and weight.   But, maybe it's fair to say that, for contractual reasons if nothing else, we can expect Gaudreau in the NHL by 2015.   It would be foolish for the Flames to keep him past that point if they don't have him signed.   We learned that the hard way with Erixon.

What is the rush here? Johnny Hockey will probably stay in school for two more year, at which time he will sign with the Flames after the Frozen Four (if BC makes it that year).

 

- What has you believing that he would opt out of signing with the Flames? I see nothing in his character to believe he would pull a Schultz.

- He can't sign until he leaves college, or he gives up NCAA eligibility.

- Erixon was a hold-out, so that should have been a warning sign. 

- The Flames have a few years to build a team that benefits players like Baer, Backlund, Gaudreau, Janko, etc.

- By the time Gaudreau is ready, we (hopefully) will have a team constructed to play the bigger teams in the West.

[s4xon]

FYI, I changed the title of this thread because he doesn't really need to be watched any more.  Johnny Gaudreau has proven himself to the point the Flames want him in the lineup, right now.

[jjgallow]

I also do not see how your math works out to 'we traded Iggy for Ramo.'

 

 

It works out, trust me.  But as suggested earlier, it's really best for another thread.

[jjgallow]

What is the rush here? Johnny Hockey will probably stay in school for two more year, at which time he will sign with the Flames after the Frozen Four (if BC makes it that year).

 

- What has you believing that he would opt out of signing with the Flames? I see nothing in his character to believe he would pull a Schultz.

- He can't sign until he leaves college, or he gives up NCAA eligibility.

- Erixon was a hold-out, so that should have been a warning sign. 

- The Flames have a few years to build a team that benefits players like Baer, Backlund, Gaudreau, Janko, etc.

- By the time Gaudreau is ready, we (hopefully) will have a team constructed to play the bigger teams in the West.

 

By the time they're holdouts, it's too late.  You can't get back similar return.

 

There's no way Gaudreau will stay in the NCAA for two more years, unless he has a major setback next year.  He's already the best player in US College hockey and it was obvious...don't let the Hobey Baker fool you.  Next year, we can expect it to be even more obvious, possibly to the point of embarrassing.  There's no way he'll be in College hockey come 2015.

 

His future in 2015 is the AHL or the NHL.  If that doesn't happen, I would consider that holding out, and the Flames should trade him.

[kehatch]

It works out, trust me.  But as suggested earlier, it's really best for another thread.

 

Your going to try and argue that the Pittsburgh 1st will be in a similar spot to the Calgary 2nd and we gave up the Calgary 2nd for Ramo.  Therefore we trade Iginla for Ramo.  Facts:

• We don't know where the Calgary/Pittsburgh picks are yet
• We didn't expect to be a bottom 5 team when the Ramo trade was made.  Classic hindsight critisism.  
• Two prospects came with the first for Iginla.  One of those prospects will play with the team tomorrow.  
• You have no idea if Montreal would have done the trade of Holland/Bourque for Cammalleri.  One of the sillier arm chair GM things that we do is try and pull part B out of a trade and say we should have went ahead with part A.  Nobody knows if Part A was available without Part B.  There was no Ramo for a 2nd.  There was Holland, 2nd, Bourque for Cammalleri, Ramo, 5th.  Either you like the trade as a whole or you don't.

Even if you ignore those facts and assume we gave up a high second for Ramo and got a late first for Iginla there is still zero connection between the two.  Implying we traded Iginla for Ramo is ludicrous.  You make some of the strangest leaps of logic.  For instance I will never understand how you can have so much hate for Ramo but so much love for Taylor.  But whatever.  

 

Back to Gaudreau.  If we are having this conversation next season I will be concerned.  Once he is at year four there is very little incentive to sign with the Flames.  Most high end prospects opt out after year 3.  The B and C prospects don't have the attention to make it worthwhile to go to free agency.  Schultz was an exception in that his year of junior allowed him to be a free agent after year three.  Gaudreau will have his pick of 30 teams all offering him a max ELC contract.  There is no reason he wouldn't go to Boston or the team of his choice.  

 

But as others have said chances are he goes pro next season.  In which case his only option is to sign with the Flames.  

[jjgallow]

Your going to try and argue that the Pittsburgh 1st will be in a similar spot to the Calgary 2nd and we gave up the Calgary 2nd for Ramo.  Therefore we trade Iginla for Ramo.  Facts:

• We don't know where the Calgary/Pittsburgh picks are yet
  • But, we kinda do.  I can wait until to the draft to lay it on thick, if that's better.  We know where this is headed.
• We didn't expect to be a bottom 5 team when the Ramo trade was made.  Classic hindsight critisism.
  • Let the records show that my criticism of the trade, the picks, and of Ramo were far, far earlier than hindsight.  Hindsight had nothing to do with it.  Basic principles of Not trading your future away had everything to do with it, as well as basic goalie evaluation.
• Two prospects came with the first for Iginla.  One of those prospects will play with the team tomorrow.
  • Meh.  To be confirmed shortly.  Nothing we couldn't acquire on the UFA market.
• You have no idea if Montreal would have done the trade of Holland/Bourque for Cammalleri.
  • I have a quote from Feaster stating that the 2nd was specifically from Ramo, and that he had the option of doing it with, or without the 2nd for Ramo.  Do I believe him?  Who cares, I expect honesty or silence.  But, who knows where that quote is now.  I'll find it for draft day, as mentioned above

Even if you ignore those facts and assume we gave up a high second for Ramo and got a late first for Iginla there is still zero connection between the two.  Implying we traded Iginla for Ramo is ludicrous.  You make some of the strangest leaps of logic.  For instance I will never understand how you can have so much hate for Ramo but so much love for Taylor.  But whatever.  

    I don't hate Ramo, he's just never been a good goaltender and I think that's finally becoming public knowledge.  I don't blame people on here for believing Feaster at the time, but I DO blame Feaster, because he really should have known better.   I don't love Taylor either.   I just see him as yet another goaltending asset that's been mishandled. 

 

Back to Gaudreau.  If we are having this conversation next season I will be concerned.  Once he is at year four there is very little incentive to sign with the Flames.  Most high end prospects opt out after year 3.  The B and C prospects don't have the attention to make it worthwhile to go to free agency.  Schultz was an exception in that his year of junior allowed him to be a free agent after year three.  Gaudreau will have his pick of 30 teams all offering him a max ELC contract.  There is no reason he wouldn't go to Boston or the team of his choice.  

 

But as others have said chances are he goes pro next season.  In which case his only option is to sign with the Flames.  

 

Well, we agree on Gaudreau.  That's all that matters going forward.

 

I will say that, given his size and uncertainty of us signing him, I would find it acceptable for the Flames to trade him to upgrade one of their draft picks in THIS particular draft.  

 

I would agree that this is very unlikely though, and I am very much looking forward to him with the Flaming C in 2015, as a top Rookie-Of-The-Year candidate.

 

I agree with the title-change too.  At the College level, Gaudreau is a known entity.   Not that we won't watch him next year. 

 

In fact.....here's the next question:

 

WHAT happens if it gets embarrassing next year, and he operates at say... greater than 2 ppg?  Which, in my opinion, may not be the best thing for his development.

 

Could he jump ship mid-season and sign with the Flames?  

 

Just wondering.

[PokernHockey]

Could he jump ship mid-season and sign with the Flames?  

 

Just wondering.

 

NHL teams are not allowed to talk to NCAA players until their season is over.  My understanding is that means when they are out of the playoffs, however I doubt there is anything stopping a player from "dropping out of school" and then signing beyond the bad press it would garner for the NHL team. Could you imagine how much the NCAA, and media would scream about how the flames pressured a kid to drop out of school?

The biggest deterrent is that as soon as there is a hint that they are professional they are ineligible to play in College any further. For a guy who is guaranteed a contract, is that really a threat? (If the NCAA caught wind that the flames gave him a free stick that counts as him going professional - for example, college prospects who attend NHL rookie camps have to pay their own way or they are ineligible)

[ScottMacMahon]

It works out, trust me.  But as suggested earlier, it's really best for another thread.

 

I agree 200% with Kehatch on this one man. You are WAY, WAY out to lunch by implying that we traded Iggy for Ramo, for the reasons Kehatch listed among many, many others.

 

By the time they're holdouts, it's too late.  You can't get back similar return.

 

There's no way Gaudreau will stay in the NCAA for two more years, unless he has a major setback next year.  He's already the best player in US College hockey and it was obvious...don't let the Hobey Baker fool you.  Next year, we can expect it to be even more obvious, possibly to the point of embarrassing.  There's no way he'll be in College hockey come 2015.

 

His future in 2015 is the AHL or the NHL.  If that doesn't happen, I would consider that holding out, and the Flames should trade him.

 

Your not taking a bunch of factors into consideration. Have you considered that maybe Johnny values his education and wants to complete his degree before turning pro? Especially since he is so small it is probably the safe option to ensure that you finish your university education in case you don't turn out at the professional level. Im not saying that I don't think he will... Im just saying that from his point of view, I would most likely want to finish my University education if I had already invested 3 years into it... 

 

I don't think there is any chance that Gaudreau will pull a Schultz. ZERO CHANCE. Not only is it not in his character, but all you ahve to do is listen to a couple of interviews that he is done and you will see how much he values the flames faith in him and the opportunity before him. Worst comes to worst, he will give us the opportunity to trade him if he doesn't want to sign with us.

[cross16]

The theory that giving up future's for Ramo is fine I agree with it. It's not a move I agree with either but I agree trying to link it to saying the Flames traded Iginla for Ramo is ridculous and off base. It makes far more sense to just stick with the concept that the Flames should not give up a future pick like that for Ramo and I think thats a far more sound argument.

 

In terms of Gaudrea I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. I'm not suprised he wants to go back to college for two reasons. 1- his team is excellent and really shoud have been in the frozen four and that probably burns him a bit. 2- his brother will be there and playing with family is a pretty rare opportunity in a hockey career. The AHL isn't going anywhere and I don't think he was going to be in the NHL so why not continue to develop, be competitive and play with your brother all with risking nothing.

 

If he starts to waiver about signing you flip him for something and move on.

[jjgallow]

It's not a move I agree with either but I agree trying to link it to saying the Flames traded Iginla for Ramo is ridculous and off base.

 

Off-base by maybe 4 to 6 positions, and a couple college players that likely never stick (contract eaters)...

 

People can say that it's off-base, and that they're unrelated trades, and that there's a host of other variables...and that it's ridiculous...

 

But the result is the same.