2024 Free Agency

[phoenix66]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the issue with him is the one he has had his entire time here.  They see him as a 5/6 and he feels he is a 3/4.  Sutter had used him as a 3/4.  But he got closer to 5/6 level minutes.  Huska only had him late season, so the die was cast.  He still only got 5/6 after Tanev and Hanifin trades.  

 

UNfortunately, the only place he has a chance of proving he is a 3/4 is Calgary.  Teams where he would help already have top 4's.  Utah is trying to get in the playoffs so they tend to be going with a good top 4.  Whatever the offer is from CGY, he may be better off here.  I doubt the likes of Bean, Hanley, Pachal, etc play better than him.  When we lost Hanifin's skating, he should have been a shoo0in for top minutes.  Huska seems to have believed that Kylington was only good because of Tanev.  Which is funny because that's really the only place that Hanifin made his bones.

Yep, his opportunity is likely best here by far. 

On the one hand I don't think Huska views him lower, just he hadn't played in a year and a half and needed to ease back in.. by end of season he was rounding back to form..

But totally right..by default he will initially slot into Hanifins spot .. powerplay.. higher minutes .. the perfect shot to elevate his next contract and prove he's the guy we saw break out 2 seasons ago 

I don't know who else will give him the opportunity..and definitely can't see who will pay more .. that he has ignored here ..

 

Very cold reality..  he was on his second show me deal..  cleared waivers I think more than once ..  got paid $5M to play 30+ games .. looked his best next to a dman who makes every partner look better ..  I think his agent overplayed their hand 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Yep, his opportunity is likely best here by far. 

On the one hand I don't think Huska views him lower, just he hadn't played in a year and a half and needed to ease back in.. by end of season he was rounding back to form..

But totally right..by default he will initially slot into Hanifins spot .. powerplay.. higher minutes .. the perfect shot to elevate his next contract and prove he's the guy we saw break out 2 seasons ago 

I don't know who else will give him the opportunity..and definitely can't see who will pay more .. that he has ignored here ..

 

Very cold reality..  he was on his second show me deal..  cleared waivers I think more than once ..  got paid $5M to play 30+ games .. looked his best next to a dman who makes every partner look better ..  I think his agent overplayed their hand 

 

There is no shame in going to FA to gauge the market.  Bad for him that we signed Bean, who is not remotely close to him.  There is still a spot for him out of camp, but he at least needs a one year prove it deal.  He has to up his stock somewhere to get paid or get term.  We know his strength, but he might get better minutes elsewhere.  I just don't know where.  Skating seems to be a weakness now on our back end.  Maybe that's just me thinking that, but I'm not seeing it.

 

Last year I don't think anyone really looked good away from Weegar or Tanev.  Hanifina bd Ras have offence but struggle in our zone.  But we shouldn't be shunning a skating D just because we felt his ask too high.  Circle back and work out a deal.

[redfire11]

I could see Kylington signing in Columbus

[phoenix66]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There is no shame in going to FA to gauge the market.  Bad for him that we signed Bean, who is not remotely close to him.  There is still a spot for him out of camp, but he at least needs a one year prove it deal.  He has to up his stock somewhere to get paid or get term.  We know his strength, but he might get better minutes elsewhere.  I just don't know where.  Skating seems to be a weakness now on our back end.  Maybe that's just me thinking that, but I'm not seeing it.

 

Last year I don't think anyone really looked good away from Weegar or Tanev.  Hanifina bd Ras have offence but struggle in our zone.  But we shouldn't be shunning a skating D just because we felt his ask too high.  Circle back and work out a deal.

Oh I don't think I we are shunning him..it he circles back we Should sign him.. but it Shoujd be for the deal we have on the table.  Connie's words were the door isn't shut, but it's closing..  likely meaning we're still talking to others ..

But I do think he's putting himself in a bad spot by playing hardball with us that circling back may be hard for him ( or his agent more likely ) to actually circle back ..

 

I was just hearing , and didn't realize that we didn't have to pay his full salary over that time, but chose to 

[tmac70]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There is no shame in going to FA to gauge the market.  Bad for him that we signed Bean, who is not remotely close to him.  There is still a spot for him out of camp, but he at least needs a one year prove it deal.  He has to up his stock somewhere to get paid or get term.  We know his strength, but he might get better minutes elsewhere.  I just don't know where.  Skating seems to be a weakness now on our back end.  Maybe that's just me thinking that, but I'm not seeing it.

 

Last year I don't think anyone really looked good away from Weegar or Tanev.  Hanifina bd Ras have offence but struggle in our zone.  But we shouldn't be shunning a skating D just because we felt his ask too high.  Circle back and work out a deal.

I was listening to Conroy speak on Kylinton, his body language and tone were that of being offended by what was happening. I think some mention that because CGY backed and paid him for 2 years he owed the Flames some form of loyalty, I disagree, the Flames handled this perfectly.  Frankly, I would have handled it differently however that is me. We also have to be aware that Oliver may not want to be here and the stress of answering questions or maybe  CGY is a trigger that creates a recurring episode. A fresh start may be what's best for him mentally. 

 

For Conroy and the Flames, what are they investing in with the player?  Oliver's current track record is reoccurring mental health issues with a short below-average reappearance. Skates well and can move the puck, is not physical,  not overly strong defensively below-average shot.  The only intangible Oliver has is his skating ability, with the HOPE he improves in his areas of weakness. For me, that's a 1.75-2 million per year deal for a max of 1-2 years.  IMHO Conroy is dancing around the Kylington situation lightly, I think deep down, Kylington gambled and lost and will not return, our GM just hasn't vocalized it publicly. 

[phoenix66]

17 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

If you want to talk about mistakes from the past to learn then i'm all ears. Sam Bennett wasn't developed well, why and what do we do differently. Perfectly fine conversation. 

 

Looking back and trying to speculate and assign blame, useless IMO. Especially considering the place the Flames are today is where most wanted/want to be. 

 

Not advocating for strict rules just pointing out that there are differences in what is a valuable discussion and less valuable. 

I couldn't agree more .. easy to blame , but reality is decisions were made that only hindsight proved them to be detrimental ..

 

Nobody saw James Neal falling off a cliff ...

 

We reacted too quickly to the overachieving 2014 team..should have stayed the course ..

 

Scouts mentioned valimaki in the same breath as Heiskenen..so it made sense BT was reluctant to trade him..

 

BT should have been more business and set a deadline for a Johnny decision.. but Johnny should have made up his mind faster .. 

 

2014 made us keep Bennett up the next year .he Shoujd have gone to the A anyway.. we say he wasnt used right , but he also didn't make us use him differently.. 

 

 

The list goes on....it's not blame, only hindsight shows it to have been wrong decisions ..we made good ones too 

 

Now we find ourselves close to where we  were when we drafted Monahan..id say well ahead with a vet core we didn't have then..

 

We need to not repeat mistakes of the past .. and i like Connie's plan better .. play for now but stress the future . Develop the kids but give them the vet structure ..

 

 

 

I will debate anybody that likely only one team in NHL history has been purposely bad and started a championship team ..that was the 80s penguins and Lemieux ..

 

Others were just bad .

Oilers didn't tank .. they were bad ..they were trying to win but we're managed badly .

 

Chicago were bad.. won a lottery to jump up 5 spots to get Kane ...

 

Colorado was an aging post cup team core that finally collapsed .. 

 

The Crosby penguins won a league lottery that wasn't even weighted due to the lockout 

 

Tampa was also a team flipping from aging cup core to being bad .. 

 

Teams like Buffalo tried doing it on purpose ..Ottawa .. nothing to show for it .. 

 

Connie is doing it right so far imo.. shoot for playoffs .. but don't overreact to the successful steps 

[redfire11]

Just Me . But I think Kylington should test other teams Mental Health policies and then get back to the Flames when he Really wants to be here. 

[JTech780]

Personally I would move on from Kylington. I think Bean has his spot and is pretty comparable in regards to skill and he wants to be in Calgary.

 

I hope Kylington finds a team and does well, I just don’t think he is a top 4 defenseman and from the sounds of it he was looking for a multi year deal at over $2m a season and I don’t think he is worth that.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We tend to stay away from players that have a history, where EDM welcomes them.  In most cases I can think of, Flames set players straight.  Neal is the one caviat to that.  But it becomes a team thing here.  Then again we have only a couple of players from the last time Gaudreau and Tkachuk played here.

 

My interest in Roslovic dated back to when he was rising in WPG.  Then the stories started.  My interest now is that he's a bit of a project but may have top 6 potential at C.  If we weren't so thin there I wouldn't bother.  I didn't see many UFA's at that age or younger that had decent stats as a C.  But maybe that's the best place to look; a young C who was moved to depth winger or doesn't fit the system they played.  FA is sprinkled with a lot of 30's players.  There is almost no C's available.

 

Perhaps the best course is a trade.  Coleman is nearing the part of his career where he has just a few good seasons left.  Like a Tanev where you love the guy but need him to help you in the playoffs.  More likely a TDL move.

Moot point on Roslovic now, 1x $2.8 mil with the Canes.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Personally I would move on from Kylington. I think Bean has his spot and is pretty comparable in regards to skill and he wants to be in Calgary.

 

I hope Kylington finds a team and does well, I just don’t think he is a top 4 defenseman and from the sounds of it he was looking for a multi year deal at over $2m a season and I don’t think he is worth that.

Looking beyond his mental health, I'm fairly meh about Kylington also. He's pretty much a bottom pairing guy.

[MP5029]

On 7/4/2024 at 12:00 PM, phoenix66 said:

I couldn't agree more .. easy to blame , but reality is decisions were made that only hindsight proved them to be detrimental ..

 

Nobody saw James Neal falling off a cliff ...

 

We reacted too quickly to the overachieving 2014 team..should have stayed the course ..

 

Scouts mentioned valimaki in the same breath as Heiskenen..so it made sense BT was reluctant to trade him..

 

BT should have been more business and set a deadline for a Johnny decision.. but Johnny should have made up his mind faster .. 

 

2014 made us keep Bennett up the next year .he Shoujd have gone to the A anyway.. we say he wasnt used right , but he also didn't make us use him differently.. 

 

 

The list goes on....it's not blame, only hindsight shows it to have been wrong decisions ..we made good ones too 

 

Now we find ourselves close to where we  were when we drafted Monahan..id say well ahead with a vet core we didn't have then..

 

We need to not repeat mistakes of the past .. and i like Connie's plan better .. play for now but stress the future . Develop the kids but give them the vet structure ..

 

 

 

I will debate anybody that likely only one team in NHL history has been purposely bad and started a championship team ..that was the 80s penguins and Lemieux ..

 

Others were just bad .

Oilers didn't tank .. they were bad ..they were trying to win but we're managed badly .

 

Chicago were bad.. won a lottery to jump up 5 spots to get Kane ...

 

Colorado was an aging post cup team core that finally collapsed .. 

 

The Crosby penguins won a league lottery that wasn't even weighted due to the lockout 

 

Tampa was also a team flipping from aging cup core to being bad .. 

 

Teams like Buffalo tried doing it on purpose ..Ottawa .. nothing to show for it .. 

 

Connie is doing it right so far imo.. shoot for playoffs .. but don't overreact to the successful steps 

Actually I think I was opposed to James Neil as was a few others.

 

However, crying over spilled Milk at this point, but I feel Conroy is on the right track.  He sees young, Big and skilled players are the way to go.. I don’t think we see anymore Valimaki and Bennett mismanaged players moving forward under Conroy thankfully.

 

i feel Bean will develop into a solid top 4 D over the next few years, and will be an excellent pair with Bhal…

 

our recent Draft and Young TDL acquisitions look like we

should have a very good D moving forward in a few years….G looks promising and so

too do the Wings.

 

our glaring weaknesses maybe short on another Rw or

two and mostly C is a area that will need heavy attention over the next few years.  If Conroy keeps going the way he has by 2027/2028 this team is poised to be competitive and while maintaining a good prospect pool for years to come…

[jjgallow]

Kylington a non-factor.

 

Should we bring Giordano home?   Let him mentor some kids?

[cberg]

37 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Kylington a non-factor.

 

Should we bring Giordano home?   Let him mentor some kids?

I'd say no, we already have mentors, so not needed and not exactly a lot of empty spaces for Gio to take up at the expense of said prospects. No, no, no.

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Kylington a non-factor.

 

Should we bring Giordano home?   Let him mentor some kids?

 

Having Gio here kinda ruined how we developed Andersson.

Andersson picked up all of Gio's habits but not with Gio's vision.

I would prefer Kyl over the old boys network member Gio.

He was great while here and we lost him for nothing.

You want to hire him instead?

Like a Paul Coffee?

 

Pass.

 

[jjgallow]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Having Gio here kinda ruined how we developed Andersson.

Andersson picked up all of Gio's habits but not with Gio's vision.

I would prefer Kyl over the old boys network member Gio.

He was great while here and we lost him for nothing.

You want to hire him instead?

Like a Paul Coffee?

 

Pass.

 

 

Fair enough 

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

Kylington a non-factor.

 

Should we bring Giordano home?   Let him mentor some kids?

No too old and slow he really shouldn’t be playing anymore, retire already!

 

plus we have Weegar who’s as good a mentor for young D as you could

want.

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

Kylington a non-factor.

 

Should we bring Giordano home?   Let him mentor some kids?

IMHO no, I never thought Gio was a good leader outside of he trained hard. If they bring him back in any capacity it would be for off-ice details, but as a player, Hard Hard pass on that.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

IMHO no, I never thought Gio was a good leader outside of he trained hard. If they bring him back in any capacity it would be for off-ice details, but as a player, Hard Hard pass on that.

I agree. Coming back to assist in development is fine, but to play? I don't think that's a great idea. Not due to his capacity as a leader or any of that stuff. Just that we've been turning a page for a year now. We don't need to turn backwards.

We've chosen to re-whatever they wanna call it. Just stick to the program.

[Otown72]

Kylington signs with Colorado  

One year deal 1.05 Mil.

Wonder why it couldn't be done with CGY.

Colorado seems to to have a knack for resurrecting players.

Oh well.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, Otown72 said:

Oh well.

You read my mind. lol

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Otown72 said:

Kylington signs with Colorado  

One year deal 1.05 Mil.

Wonder why it couldn't be done with CGY.

Colorado seems to to have a knack for resurrecting players.

Oh well.

 

That's okay.  They get Kylington, we will get Makar when he's a UFA.

I think the offer from CGY may have reduced to a one year prove it deal, so he chose contender.

He would have been fighting for minutes here against Bean and Pachal.

And given the coach used to coach his defense, I'm not sure it would work out.

Probably felt Tanev was propping him up.

[conundrumed]

I believe the Bean signing was pivoting away from Kylington. So talks probably weren't great.

No big loss. 5-7 guy.

Wish him well and hope his healing path is a good one.

[robrob74]

Kylington was probably bummed the Flames wanted a "show me" contract, and then was thinking he'd get some offers. Maybe lack of offers were unnerving and panicking to sign a "show me" deal with Colorado. 
 

like Conundrum said, the Flames signed bean as a response to Kylington not signing. Maybe both sides are butt hurt of each other.

[Thebrewcrew]

Think Kylington is going to have to compete with Brannstrom for NHL games.

 

He's not going to be an everyday player in Denver.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I believe the Bean signing was pivoting away from Kylington. So talks probably weren't great.

No big loss. 5-7 guy.

Wish him well and hope his healing path is a good one.

 

I had a better opinion of him.  Considering the neg stiff I have heard about Bean, is it an improvement?  The name bothers me because sometimes it seems like it was to appease a certain group of people with tons of money.  I don't know, he never seemed to hit with his drafting team or the BJ's.  What is he really?

 

Bahl should get the top 4 minutes.  But who knows.