So now what?

[420since1974]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

isn't the Flames' first in 2025 theirs or Montreal's? Could be the Panther's pick going to Montreal instead?

Only if Florida's pick is better than Calgary's.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

Only if Florida's pick is better than Calgary's.

Just to bring this thing in, if both picks are between 11-32, MTL gets the better pick. If Calgary's pick is within 1-10 and Florida's is not, MTL gets FLA's pick.

The other sub-scenario is dead. FLA's 2024 protected pick to Philly is Philly's, FLA's pick isn't top 10. So we have a 1st rd pick next year no matter what happens from here on out. The worst scenario is picking 11th while FLA wins the cup. We'd pick 32nd.

The mgrs meeting should think about addressing just how out of hand *conditions have gotten.

[Otown72]

Calgary needs to to be bad next year or make the playoffs. No in in-between. Sadly, I think the Flames will drafting in the 11 to 16 range. 

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

 

This board describes the way conditions are becoming in the NHL.

 

Here is another view with a "calmer" person explaining it.

 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, Otown72 said:

Calgary needs to to be bad next year or make the playoffs. No in in-between. Sadly, I think the Flames will drafting in the 11 to 16 range. 

 

Normally, i would be depressed watching the Flames win when the points don't matter anymore but the silver lining this year is Tij is in that range.  No excuse to not take him if he's there with our 12th overall pick.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Normally, i would be depressed watching the Flames win when the points don't matter anymore but the silver lining this year is Tij is in that range.  No excuse to not take him if he's there with our 12th overall pick.

 

Hope so.

 

But he is tearing it up right now at 2 points per game and a Lotta goals.

 

He's more than just a familiar name.

 

If this keeps up we will be looking for defenceman to drop to us so that we can pass them over

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Hope so.

 

But he is tearing it up right now at 2 points per game and a Lotta goals.

 

He's more than just a familiar name.

 

If this keeps up we will be looking for defenceman to drop to us so that we can pass them over

 

Name brand either pushes other great players down to us or we win the lotto.

All good.

[The_People1]

42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Name brand either pushes other great players down to us or we win the lotto.

All good.

 

Don't over think it.  Just pick Tij if he's there at 12.

[cross16]

So to be clear after spending years ripping the Flames for taking LS wingers we are now good with them taking them again?

 

Just trying to keep up

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

So to be clear after spending years ripping the Flames for taking LS wingers we are now good with them taking them again?

 

Just trying to keep up

 

 

That's why we ripped them before.

 

So we'd have defence solved when the forwards that mattered came our way. 

 

To be clear, if we lose out on Tij and we could with this winning streat, we should take the best D that drops down to us.   They tend to be bpa because gms are impatient. 

 

 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

So to be clear after spending years ripping the Flames for taking LS wingers we are now good with them taking them again?

 

Just trying to keep up

 

You think there will be a good D left at 12th?  Dream on man.  I'd take Yakemchuk over Tij for sures, if you were keeping up.

[cberg]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You think there will be a good D left at 12th?  Dream on man.  I'd take Yakemchuk over Tij for sures, if you were keeping up.

Although we always pretend that the ratings are god and actual reality, pretty much the re-drafts ALWAYS prove that ratings are not reality and there are always better, lower-picked players at every position.  

[cross16]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

You think there will be a good D left at 12th?  Dream on man.  I'd take Yakemchuk over Tij for sures, if you were keeping up.

 

I have no idea. I don't really prioritize position, I'd advocate BPA. 

 

I just think it's funny that a BPA approach that has led to LS wingers was criticized and now that same approach is cool. 

[The_People1]

17 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I have no idea. I don't really prioritize position, I'd advocate BPA. 

 

I just think it's funny that a BPA approach that has led to LS wingers was criticized and now that same approach is cool. 

 

Not just any LS LW though... 😂

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not just any LS LW though... 😂

 

That is the joke though. Approach is the same but because the name is cool now we are good. I just find it funny. 

[redfire11]

A Flame marketing strategy you take TJ

A Flame organizational need you take Yakumchuk

A Flame 3 + year retool you take BPA 

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

A Flame marketing strategy you take TJ

A Flame organizational need you take Yakumchuk

A Flame 3 + year retool you take BPA 

 

Likely the first time the player suits up in red would be in the new arena.

I'm not keen on picking wingers since we have a big hole in the middle.

Yakemchuk stats are crazy good for a D.

Unless we start losing, he may not even be available.

BPA, as long as it isn't LW LHS.

 

 

[cberg]

38 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Likely the first time the player suits up in red would be in the new arena.

I'm not keen on picking wingers since we have a big hole in the middle.

Yakemchuk stats are crazy good for a D.

Unless we start losing, he may not even be available.

BPA, as long as it isn't LW LHS.

 

 

Do those who advocate BPA think the “list” is set in stone?  We never know the Flames list, and the pundits are all over the map.  

[robrob74]

14 minutes ago, cberg said:

Do those who advocate BPA think the “list” is set in stone?  We never know the Flames list, and the pundits are all over the map.  

yup, lists are so arbitrary. All teams have their own lists, which is why you get Jankowski drafts. The Flames had him on their list. Dunno if that's Flames scouts or the ASSistant. GM at the time. 

[cross16]

I think lists should be arbitrary because not every team is looking for the same thing in terms of players, character, attitude, skill sets etc. This idea there there should be consensus when it comes to drafting is flawed and always has been. 

 

I'd much rather take a player that my scout(s) believe in or have conviction over than looking at some consensus list of watered down opinions. You'll win some and you'll lose some but IMO it is 100% the better way to go. 

 

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

yup, lists are so arbitrary. All teams have their own lists, which is why you get Jankowski drafts. The Flames had him on their list. Dunno if that's Flames scouts or the ASSistant. GM at the time. 

 

What gets lost in the Jankowksi discussion, is you look at the actual analysis/scouting of the player I don't think the Flames were wrong on the player nor was Jankowski an egregious pick. 

 

Sabres traded up and took Girgenson. He's played more games sure, but in terms of their impact you'd be hard pressed to convince me he was a much better pick. 

He's had a better career than Grigorenko who was taken 2 spots before the Flames were picking. He was better than the number 8 and 10 pick in that draft.

30th in his draft class for goals. 

Outside of Vaslivesky who is the "OMG they passed on this guy?". Ceci? Hertl? Wilson? Good players sure but an egregious miss to take Janko over those guys?

 

If you remove the hype and how the Flames handled him I don't think the Jankowski picks is near as egregious as it's made out to be by fans. It was a bad draft year. 

 

Obviously Vasilevsky is the outlier and I have no idea what led to them not liking him or having Janko higher. My suspicion would be is at the time they likely weren't well set up to be scouting Russia as that was pretty much ignored under Sutter but they clearly learned from that afterwards. 

[jjgallow]

14 hours ago, cberg said:

Although we always pretend that the ratings are god and actual reality, pretty much the re-drafts ALWAYS prove that ratings are not reality and there are always better, lower-picked players at every position.  

 

Not sure how you define ALWAYS, but in a as much as that statement Might be valid,  it's also valid that teams who consistently go off the board ALWAYS get wrecked (unless they have an Actual hack, like the Russian-drafting red wings of years ago).

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

What gets lost in the Jankowksi discussion, is you look at the actual analysis/scouting of the player I don't think the Flames were wrong nor was Jankowski an egregious pick. 

 

Sabres traded up and took Girgenson. He's played more games sure, but in terms of their impact you'd be hard pressed to convince me he was a much better pick. 

He's had a better career than Grigorenko who was taken 2 spots before the Flames were picking. He was better than the number 8 and 10 pick in that draft.

30th in his draft class for goals. 

Outside of Vaslivesky who is the "OMG they passed on this guy?". Ceci? Hertl? Wilson? Good players sure but an egregious miss to take Janko over those guys?

 

If you remove the hype and how the Flames handled him I don't think the Jankowski picks is near as egregious as it's made out to be by fans. It was a bad draft year. 

 

Obviously Vasilevsky is the outlier and I have no idea what led to them not liking him or having Janko higher. My suspicion would be is at the time they likely weren't well set up to be scouting Russia as that was pretty much ignored under Sutter but they clearly learned from that afterwards. 

 

Ok straight up. who brought Jankowski into this lol.

 

I've been agreeing with a lot of your posts lately.  

 

But Jankowski was an all-time worst bad decision for the franchise, case closed.

 

You said it yourself, with "oh but what if we look at by ignoring the best goalie in modern times, and half of the other available players".

 

thing is, it wasn't that bad of a draft.  the only way it doesn't look aggregarious is if you literally ignore all the professional scouting consensus in the first round.    Then, sure, looking only at the 2nd round, Jankowski looks like a steal of a deal.  

 

Let's not.  Lol.     This should be a dead end.    

[jjgallow]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:52 AM, travel_dude said:

 

This board describes the way conditions are becoming in the NHL.

 

Here is another view with a "calmer" person explaining it.

 

 

So are we red, orange, yellow or green?

 

This is the simplest explanation of our picks I have seen in a long time.    That's what I need, color coding.

 

Do I understand it correctly that if we're green, we get...the Sedin twins?

[cross16]

14 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Ok straight up. who brought Jankowski into this lol.

 

I've been agreeing with a lot of your posts lately.  

 

But Jankowski was an all-time worst bad decision for the franchise, case closed.

 

You said it yourself, with "oh but what if we look at by ignoring the best goalie in modern times, and half of the other available players".

 

thing is, it wasn't that bad of a draft.  the only way it doesn't look aggregarious is if you literally ignore all the professional scouting consensus in the first round.    Then, sure, looking only at the 2nd round, Jankowski looks like a steal of a deal.  

 

Let's not.  Lol.     This should be a dead end.    

 

Actually i said the opposite. I said Vasilevsky is the player that makes you scratch your head. I'm simply offering the possibility that it's likely the Flames didn't have a good read on him as they were not scouting Russia much at the time. 

 

I don't think passing on a few good, but not great players, makes it an all time bad decision nor does it mean they were way off on their evaluation of the player. It makes it a bad pick but bad picks happen all the time by every franchise. 

 

I wouldn't put Janko in the top 5 worst picks in Flames history, let alone call him an all time worst decision but if you want to go over the top by all means.