Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

In the toilet with nobody left to trade for draft capital because we blew it all away for 1 prospect? Sounds like a 10 yr rebuild.

 

I thought you were pretty high on the 10th pick... (Dickinson, Catton, Helenius).  Not worth it?  Plus we going to pick top 4 next season after losing Andersson.

[The_People1]

Also, Pospisil is too injury prone.  If we can trade him for something good then just do it before he's IR'd for the rest of his career.  Not to mention he crosses the line too many times.

 

NJD wants/needs a player like that for playoff hockey.  Flames aren't playoff bound for the remainder of Pospisil's career (5 years).

[conundrumed]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Flames players aren't very hot commodities right now.

Evidently you missed the World Hockey Championship. Pospisil was Slovakia's best player. Not by hype, not by rose-coloured glasses. He was their best player up until the injury. Without question. Nobody would argue that.

He's 24. Do you honestly think teams don't want a piece of that action?

You just developed a really good player. Yet, you can't trade him fast enough.

Then, you'll piss and moan that we suck at development.

It's a no-win situation.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Evidently you missed the World Hockey Championship. Pospisil was Slovakia's best player. Not by hype, not by rose-coloured glasses. He was their best player up until the injury. Without question. Nobody would argue that.

He's 24. Do you honestly think teams don't want a piece of that action?

You just developed a really good player. Yet, you can't trade him fast enough.

Then, you'll piss and moan that we suck at development.

It's a no-win situation.

 

To quote Rhett Warrener "what the hell are we talking about here?  Seems like everyone but downtown Calgary knows the only way to exit a rebuild is to first amass a bunch of picks".

 

What we are doing is having bad timing.  Pospisil and Sharangovich are peaking out of sync with the rest of the team.

 

Let's setup a situation where 5 years from now, Dickinson + Catton peak together with the new core we have.  Now we are talking.

[cberg]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's not a huge overpay.

 

Markstrom is worth a late 1st + mid tier prospect

Andersson is worth a late 1st + low end prospect

Pospisil is worth a 2nd round pick

 

Would you trade the Flames #9 for two late 1sts, a 2nd, and a couple low/mid end prospects?  Quality over quantity here.

You SEEM to know what Markstrom is worth, yet since he hasn’t been traded we only have the failed NJ trade as evidence, where it was related to be mid- level first and a mid to high- level prospect for Markstrom straight up.  Addin a Hanifin level value for Anderson, plus an unknown but high level return for Pospisil (Tkachuk lite) and your proposal becomes ludicrous.  Heck, Pospisil alone may have more value than the 10th pick.  If Conroy accepted that trade he should be fired on the spot…

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cberg said:

You SEEM to know what Markstrom is worth, yet since he hasn’t been traded we only have the failed NJ trade as evidence, where it was related to be mid- level first and a mid to high- level prospect for Markstrom straight up.  Addin a Hanifin level value for Anderson, plus an unknown but high level return for Pospisil (Tkachuk lite) and your proposal becomes ludicrous.  Heck, Pospisil alone may have more value than the 10th pick.  If Conroy accepted that trade he should be fired on the spot…

 

In regards to Markstrom, that was rumoured to be salary retention though.  I'm suggesting without salary retention he's only worth a late first + mid-tier prospect (Holtz (bordering bust)).  Also, Markstrom would've given NJD 3 runs.  He's now only giving 2.  Also, it's TDL so healthy bodies are worth more than usual.  It's draft season now so drafts are worth more than healthy bodies.  All things considered here.

 

Hanifin got a 2026 1st and we already counting it like a lotto pick when it could easily be a 25+.   We simply don't know.

 

Pospisil is not worth a 10oa.  A 2nd though is possible.  He's becoming a solid 3rd line Winger at a good cap hit.  Plays with an edge.  There is value absolutely but not 10oa.  He's not worth Dickinson, Buium, Catton, Iginla, etc.

[cberg]

49 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

In regards to Markstrom, that was rumoured to be salary retention though.  I'm suggesting without salary retention he's only worth a late first + mid-tier prospect (Holtz (bordering bust)).  Also, Markstrom would've given NJD 3 runs.  He's now only giving 2.  Also, it's TDL so healthy bodies are worth more than usual.  It's draft season now so drafts are worth more than healthy bodies.  All things considered here.

 

Hanifin got a 2026 1st and we already counting it like a lotto pick when it could easily be a 25+.   We simply don't know.

 

Pospisil is not worth a 10oa.  A 2nd though is possible.  He's becoming a solid 3rd line Winger at a good cap hit.  Plays with an edge.  There is value absolutely but not 10oa.  He's not worth Dickinson, Buium, Catton, Iginla, etc.

Nobody knows the true worth of Markstrom, but you do make some good points. He alone could be the missing key to put the NJD right in the SC contender mix, and I’m not discounting that to anyone.  Also, although only signed for 2 years, I’d bet he has 4-5 good years left and re-signing likely.  As far as Pospisil goes, he’s big, fast, physical, brings an edge that adds spine to teammates and a curiously great winning record when he is in the lineup, and he can score.  He is no 3rd liner, the line he is on usually turns out to be the best.  Hence my Tkachuk-lite prediction.  As for comparisons to those potential draftees, I’d be happy if they reach Pop’s level, but do agree they may have some upside that we haven’t seen yet in Pospisil(eg Center).  In terms of overall team value I’d rate them pretty even(Pospisil already proven) and he certainly is no throw-in.  So, 3 MAJOR pieces for 10th Oa?  Give your head a shake.  

[cross16]

I have no problem with the idea of trading Markstrom, Andersson or Pospisil. I can get behind arguments for why all 3 should be moved. I already think Markstrom and Andersson should be moved and while I like Pospisil, there's logic there too. 

 

Moving all 3 for 1 pick? That is an awful idea.

[redfire11]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Moving all 3 for 1 asset? That is an awful idea. 

Especially an unproven asset

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

Especially an unproven asset

 

But Conundrumed said.

 

Dickinson is proven and will be worth it.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I have no problem with the idea of trading Markstrom, Andersson or Pospisil. I can get behind arguments for why all 3 should be moved. I already think Markstrom and Andersson should be moved and while I like Pospisil, there's logic there too. 

 

Moving all 3 for 1 pick? That is an awful idea.

 

3 for 2 then.  Take back Holtz too.  We not getting Mercer though.

 

But honestly, that's the price.  Markstrom and Anderson gets us two late 1sts.  As you said, late 1sts are overrated.  

[The_People1]

16 hours ago, cberg said:

So, 3 MAJOR pieces for 10th Oa?  Give your head a shake.  

 

We don't have a single piece in the organization worthy of a 10oa straight across.  It's going to take 3 lesser pieces to get the deal done.  Also, it's only MAJOR pieces to us because we don't have much.

[MP5029]

16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

3 for 2 then.  Take back Holtz too.  We not getting Mercer though.

 

But honestly, that's the price.  Markstrom and Anderson gets us two late 1sts.  As you said, late 1sts are overrated.  

Again, I think you absolutely can get Mercer and the 10 OA pick but you need to address the needs that NJD have and also lessen the blow of giving up a top 10 first by giving a later 1st.

 

NJD’s needs per their GM are:

 

1. Goalie

2. grit up front with some scoring

3. Another D 

 

originally I was thinking Manji but maybe Pos…vs Manji for the grit up front with some scoring would probably be a better fit for NJD.  
 

Holtz is more of a roster dump for NJD with some potential up side for the gaining team.  He’s a gamble muck like Kuzy was/is.  He’s had some good seasons and a bad one last year…not unlike Shar, he just wasn’t fitting in to NJD but his first round draft value is dropping so he’s more of a dump for NJD…

 

my opinion and thoughts are:

 

to NJD

1. Markstrom 

2. Pos.

3. Anderson

4. VCR’s first 

 

to Cgy:

1. Mercer

2. NJD’s first 10 OA

3. Holtz 

 

Cgy is in a spot where they totally have the assets that fit NJD’s needs..they can also take the risk on Holtz, part of that is only if Mercer is in the deal, and Cgy also has a sweeter play by being able to offer a later 1st rounder which definitely not many teams can do.

 

some risk for both teams but also a possibility of a win, win deal for both and the trade is relatively fair off the start.

 

If and only If, Cgy and NJD pulls this off, Manji needs to be moved and maybe even Kuzy at some point.

 

 

[robrob74]

20 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Evidently you missed the World Hockey Championship. Pospisil was Slovakia's best player. Not by hype, not by rose-coloured glasses. He was their best player up until the injury. Without question. Nobody would argue that.

He's 24. Do you honestly think teams don't want a piece of that action?

You just developed a really good player. Yet, you can't trade him fast enough.

Then, you'll piss and moan that we suck at development.

It's a no-win situation.

 

I will jump in... 

 

Have to say, I thought we sucked at development and scouting, sometimes of course there is a botched player development or trade for a guy, but when the playoffs came around, many of our previous players were out having fun going for a Cup. It is/was cool to see for them. 

 

I don't want to trade Andersson or Pospisil for 10oa. I think it should be Markstrom and Mangiapane with some retained money, for Holtz and 10. Hoping to turn the guy around. 

 

Not to give the Oilers credit, but apparently Paul Coffey has done wonders for them in helping prep their D, which is why they're a bit more bought in to that side of the game. More doesn't mean they're good.   just that more than they were. I only bring that up because wondering if Holtz can be coached? If they can be coached up north, then maybe anyone can... 

[sak22]

I don't really know where Andersson is a fit with the Devils, I don't really view their D as bad as is especially with Hamilton back, Nemec and Marino also on the right side, then Hughes, Bahl and Siegenthaler.  Would Andersson be an upgrade on some, its an area where I think NJ could be looking at D if they keep #10 because I don't know if they have much in the pipeline to be excited about besides Casey.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

my opinion and thoughts are:

 

to NJD

1. Markstrom 

2. Pos.

3. Anderson

4. VCR’s first 

 

to Cgy:

1. Mercer

2. NJD’s first 10 OA

3. Holtz 

 

It's a fair trade.  I just don't feel NJD cares to draft.  Mercer > 28th pick in terms of where NJD wants to be.  Mercer is entering prime.  The 28th pick is 5 years away.

 

Not to mention, the team who should make the pick is the Flames.  NJD will tell us to keep the pick and they keep Mercer.  To get Mercer we need to give them a ready NHL player.

 

Just do,

 

To NJD,

Markstrom

Andersson

Pospisil 

 

To CGY,

10oa

Holtz

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

3 for 2 then.  Take back Holtz too.  We not getting Mercer though.

 

But honestly, that's the price.  Markstrom and Anderson gets us two late 1sts.  As you said, late 1sts are overrated.  

 

Maybe it is but that doesn't make it smart.  

 

I think Anderson gets your more and likely should get a roster player/prospect type. Giving up that, plus multiple other picks for 1 pick is just not smart business. 

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't really know where Andersson is a fit with the Devils, I don't really view their D as bad as is especially with Hamilton back, Nemec and Marino also on the right side, then Hughes, Bahl and Siegenthaler.  Would Andersson be an upgrade on some, its an area where I think NJ could be looking at D if they keep #10 because I don't know if they have much in the pipeline to be excited about besides Casey.

 

I'm just going off the Devil's fan's YouTube video.  Their wish list is a G, 2F and 2D... Sounds like they'd like to dump off a D or two who aren't producing and upgrade to someone like Andersson.  Arguably an upgrade over Marino and Siegenthaler.  Also, Hughes and Nemec are still young and need to be sheltered.

[cross16]

9 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't really know where Andersson is a fit with the Devils, I don't really view their D as bad as is especially with Hamilton back, Nemec and Marino also on the right side, then Hughes, Bahl and Siegenthaler.  Would Andersson be an upgrade on some, its an area where I think NJ could be looking at D if they keep #10 because I don't know if they have much in the pipeline to be excited about besides Casey.

 

I agree, I don't see Anderson as something they will target. The D they are looking for is depth, not top 3.  Already have Nemec and Mario on the right side.

 

Need to strengthen their 4-6. 

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Maybe it is but that doesn't make it smart.  

 

I think Anderson gets your more and likely should get a roster player/prospect type. Giving up that, plus multiple other picks for 1 pick is just not smart business. 

 

There is risk putting all eggs in one basket, sure.  But you want to cast a wide net and get lots of assets in hopes a couple of them workout long term.  Andersson gets a late 1st and low end NHL player.

 

Thing is, the Flames need the high end core guys.  We need and should take these chances.

[The_People1]

The more I think about,

 

Markstrom + Andersson + Pospisil

 

The more I think OTT would do that deal for the 7oa.  It checks off everything they need.

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

There is risk putting all eggs in one basket, sure.  But you want to cast a wide net and get lots of assets in hopes a couple of them workout long term.  Andersson gets a late 1st and low end NHL player.

 

Thing is, the Flames need the high end core guys.  We need and should take these chances.

 

and fundamentally I could get behind this, but I don't think that is what you are accomplishing here. IMO pick 10 this year is not going to get you a high end core guy. Might not even get you a core guy. 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's a fair trade.  I just don't feel NJD cares to draft.  Mercer > 28th pick in terms of where NJD wants to be.  Mercer is entering prime.  The 28th pick is 5 years away.

 

Not to mention, the team who should make the pick is the Flames.  NJD will tell us to keep the pick and they keep Mercer.  To get Mercer we need to give them a ready NHL player.

 

Just do,

 

To NJD,

Markstrom

Andersson

Pospisil 

 

To CGY,

10oa

Holtz

 

That is so bad it would be a firing offense.

If Markstrom was being offered for (rumour) an unknown level 1st (possibly 16-20) plus Holtz, why would they settle for a slightly better draft pick by including two players with value.

 

If a 1st is offered by NJ it would be next year.  They may have some conversations with Connie that say if we can't get player X by 10, then we will make the Markstrom trade.  The 10th might drive up the retention amount or require us to pony up Pospisil, but I don't think it includes a valuable asset like Ras.  I tend to think NJ just picks 10th and uses next year's 1st if they go that way.  Or they do Mercer straight up.  

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't really know where Andersson is a fit with the Devils, I don't really view their D as bad as is especially with Hamilton back, Nemec and Marino also on the right side, then Hughes, Bahl and Siegenthaler.  Would Andersson be an upgrade on some, its an area where I think NJ could be looking at D if they keep #10 because I don't know if they have much in the pipeline to be excited about besides Casey.

I feel the same and am unsure about Devils fan's video saying D is a need. That's 6 solid guys, and Nemec and Hughes will only get better.

For me, their biggest concern after G is Jack Hughes. Upon his 1st injury this year, NJ visited Detroit. 'Ol Mickey Redmond talked about young guys racing without a concern until it's a concern. It was Hughes he was talking about. It keeps happening. NJ needs to figure out how to get him to pick his spots.

[The_People1]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That is so bad it would be a firing offense.

If Markstrom was being offered for (rumour) an unknown level 1st (possibly 16-20) plus Holtz, why would they settle for a slightly better draft pick by including two players with value.

 

If a 1st is offered by NJ it would be next year.  They may have some conversations with Connie that say if we can't get player X by 10, then we will make the Markstrom trade.  The 10th might drive up the retention amount or require us to pony up Pospisil, but I don't think it includes a valuable asset like Ras.  I tend to think NJ just picks 10th and uses next year's 1st if they go that way.  Or they do Mercer straight up.  

 

TDL deals are inflated for the team offering the player.

 

Draft deals are inflated for the team offering the draft pick.

 

That's just how it is.  You want the 10oa, it's going to cost a lot.  In my opinion, we should pay because we are a team in need of as many top 10 as we can get.  Same philosophy for teams loading up going into the playoffs... Pay the price to land the final pieces.  Whatever it takes.