Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

agree! I think people think we wanna dump his cap? I was a bit like, huh? Dumbfounded! That looks like Homer math to me. I see you being more realistic, and the flames don't have to trade him, so there is that too. 

 

We likely want to dump his contract but not his cap.  Kadri's cap hit is fair based on recent signings.  The stats are there.  $7-mil for a veteran Cup winner, 2nd line C, and plays in all situations.  Trading him for fair value should be possible.  I'm talking Kadri for Robertson straight up.  I don't believe TOR has the assets to ask us or any team in the league to retain $3.5-mil x 4.

[robrob74]

33 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We likely want to dump his contract but not his cap.  Kadri's cap hit is fair based on recent signings.  The stats are there.  $7-mil for a veteran Cup winner, 2nd line C, and plays in all situations.  Trading him for fair value should be possible.  I'm talking Kadri for Robertson straight up.  I don't believe TOR has the assets to ask us or any team in the league to retain $3.5-mil x 4.

Robertson is a fair deal? Is it because he's young? I'd want just a bit more. I'd be willing to take on a bad contract that is a year or two out to make it work, but that needs more than Robertson, maybe a 2nd round pick to go with it? 
 

Kadri is a good center, and possibly fairer value now and so I think he should have some more value? Am I over valuing him? I seem to think some guys have more value than they should. 
 

I admit I put more in a Markstrom Return, but always felt at least a first is required. I view Kadri in the just about Hanifin value. Maybe a not quite 1st rounder material, but I would think close to it. Maybe it is the time of year why it's cheap? 

[The_People1]

26 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Robertson is a fair deal? Is it because he's young? I'd want just a bit more. I'd be willing to take on a bad contract that is a year or two out to make it work, but that needs more than Robertson, maybe a 2nd round pick to go with it? 
 

Kadri is a good center, and possibly fairer value now and so I think he should have some more value? Am I over valuing him? I seem to think some guys have more value than they should. 
 

I admit I put more in a Markstrom Return, but always felt at least a first is required. I view Kadri in the just about Hanifin value. Maybe a not quite 1st rounder material, but I would think close to it. Maybe it is the time of year why it's cheap? 

 

I think at some point in the next four years, the best of Robertson's curve will intersect with Kadri's on his decline.  

 

Robertson is 23 and on the upside.  Maybe something like the Toffoli trade where the Flames took a chance at Sharangovich bounce back season.

[cberg]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I tend to scroll through Google news feed. A site there that I've never really seen before, heavy.com, and they were discussing trade rumours, that the leafs have pitched a trade for Kardri, rumoured they'd like him back.

 

they said a fan put a proposal together on puckpedia and this was their trade:

 

 

Maple Leafs get:

• Nazem Kadri (with $3.5 million retained)
• 2025 fifth-round pick
• 2026 sixth-round pick

Flames get:

• David Kampf
• Nick Robertson
• Ryan Reaves
• 2025 second-round pick

 

maybe it is what he is worth? And some of the players coming to Calgary are cap dumps, but for some reason I think Kadri is worth more, or maybe it's the 5th and 6ths we are giving up that it then just seems like we are just helping them. 
 

i guess part of it is trading him to rid gos contract before it becomes a bad one. But if we are also retaining that much salary I'd expect a lot more in return, as that means retaining beyond, and what happens if the Leafs decide to buyout? I guess we would retain less but for longer? 
 

 

but still.

That trade is a joke.  Robertson is a tweener, Reaves a cap dump and retaining 3.5mm for 5 years, 2 throw-in picks for gritty, career year, SC champion, excellent mentor Kadri, exactly what the Leafs need NOW?  Like I said, a joke.  If they want Kadri, start with their 2025/26 1st, plus their OHL hotshot  C, if they need to dump cap throw in Robertson for Minton.

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, cberg said:

That trade is a joke.  Robertson is a tweener, Reaves a cap dump and retaining 3.5mm for 5 years, 2 throw-in picks for gritty, career year, SC champion, excellent mentor Kadri, exactly what the Leafs need NOW?  Like I said, a joke.  If they want Kadri, start with their 2025/26 1st, plus their OHL hotshot  C, if they need to dump cap throw in Robertson for Minton.

agree about the joke for sure!

 

at first I was like, ya we could use eventually trading Kadri, but i think he can be worth a lot to the team. Doesn't mean he is a great leader that he enjoys remembering the excitement of being new to the NHL, but I still think that is great. 
 

agree at least a first.

[tmac70]

Really if there is a trade with TO for Kadri it has to be:

 

TO; Kadri

 

CGY 2026  1st, Easton Cowan, Robertson + Roster player

 

Kadri is your biggest chip right now, proven, cup winner would make an impact for sure. He has to bring back similar if not higher than what Lindholm got. 

 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

Really if there is a trade with TO for Kadri it has to be:

 

TO; Kadri

 

CGY 2026  1st, Easton Cowan, Robertson + Roster player

 

Kadri is your biggest chip right now, proven, cup winner would make an impact for sure. He has to bring back similar if not higher than what Lindholm got. 

 

 

I have to agree. Last year we were like, we gotta rid him for anything, but as we go a year later, this might not be agreeable, but he is close to Lindholm as a player. I get Lindholm is more 200' but I think Kadri can be better offensively. 
 

maybe he should bring back close to what Lindholm got, maybe not as much, but close. To your point, you could be trading for a cup. 
 

I would do Cowan, Robertson and a cap dump to make it work. Or a first instead of Cowan. Or do Cowan and a 1st and then cap dump players to make it work...

 

im on your wave length though. Maybe I'm slightly under what you suggest, but close.
 

I think Kadri could be worth more than has been suggested online . Is the TDL when that worth is there? 

[420since1974]

I feel that last season, Kadri was well worth his $7M Cap Hit even just looking at his stats (29g+46a=75p).

I'm basing that on the fact that on average, forwards in the NHL make about $1M for every 10 points.

Additionally, Kadri plays at a premium position (C) and has won a Stanley Cup.

So, If a team wants Calgary to retain part of his Cap Hit for 4 seasons, I feel that they should pay a premium in a trade.

[conundrumed]

57 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

I feel that last season, Kadri was well worth his $7M Cap Hit even just looking at his stats (29g+46a=75p).

I'm basing that on the fact that on average, forwards in the NHL make about $1M for every 10 points.

Additionally, Kadri plays at a premium position (C) and has won a Stanley Cup.

So, If a team wants Calgary to retain part of his Cap Hit for 4 seasons, I feel that they should pay a premium in a trade.

Yeah, I'm not the guys biggest fan, but I see no reason to trade him, like, at all.

Young players are going to need to see leadership. I have no problem with him being one of them. He hasn't pissed and moaned about wanting out, or any of that stuff.

We have to stop pretending that 12yr vets hit 34 and forget how to play hockey. Losing a step is okay, because they know how to be conservative all over the ice. Backlund's a great example of that. It's nice to have a few young bats out of hell, but you can't have an entire team like that. Older players have great instincts of what they can and can't do. They're great teachers for young, burgeoning players.

edit

You always have great, balanced takes 420. I'll take whatever you're smoking. lol

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah, I'm not the guys biggest fan, but I see no reason to trade him, like, at all.

Young players are going to need to see leadership. I have no problem with him being one of them. He hasn't pissed and moaned about wanting out, or any of that stuff.

We have to stop pretending that 12yr vets hit 34 and forget how to play hockey. Losing a step is okay, because they know how to be conservative all over the ice. Backlund's a great example of that. It's nice to have a few young bats out of hell, but you can't have an entire team like that. Older players have great instincts of what they can and can't do. They're great teachers for young, burgeoning players.

edit

You always have great, balanced takes 420. I'll take whatever you're smoking. lol

 

Reason #1:  He produced this season but the final two years of his contract is expected to show decline.  At $7-mil-per, it's a good reason to get rid of a future problem today.

 

Reason #2:  Easton Cowan + 1st round pick would look pretty good in about 3 to 4 years from now.

 

Reason #3: You can find his type of "leadership" at about $3-mil x 3-years on the open market.

[sak22]

43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Reason #1:  He produced this season but the final two years of his contract is expected to show decline.  At $7-mil-per, it's a good reason to get rid of a future problem today.

 

Reason #2:  Easton Cowan + 1st round pick would look pretty good in about 3 to 4 years from now.

 

Reason #3: You can find his type of "leadership" at about $3-mil x 3-years on the open market.

For Toronto sure, not I'd say highly unlikely the Flames get either for Kadri.  The Kadri talk is a little crazy, a few teams maybe see if Craig will sell low due to the state of the team, don't get carried away with bidding wars or overpays, if he is moved it is to fit the player and once you make a move for the players benefit you lose negotiating power.  The insiders know the system nowadays, mention a Canadian team and get clicks.

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, sak22 said:

For Toronto sure, not I'd say highly unlikely the Flames get either for Kadri.  The Kadri talk is a little crazy, a few teams maybe see if Craig will sell low due to the state of the team, don't get carried away with bidding wars or overpays, if he is moved it is to fit the player and once you make a move for the players benefit you lose negotiating power.  The insiders know the system nowadays, mention a Canadian team and get clicks.

yup! 
I don't see a reason to trade him either other than two reasons:

 

1. a team wants him and will pay the cost.

2. he wants to be traded and the Flames grant him that.

 

i think there is worth him being in Calgary. For us tanker fans, it's too bad we don't trade him as we will win a few games on him alone, but I think the culture needs to be maintained, and like some have said, the kids need to understand the NHL game. He helps them by mentoring.  

 

[sak22]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

yup! 
I don't see a reason to trade him either other than two reasons:

 

1. a team wants him and will pay the cost.

2. he wants to be traded and the Flames grant him that.

 

i think there is worth him being in Calgary. For us tanker fans, it's too bad we don't trade him as we will win a few games on him alone, but I think the culture needs to be maintained, and like some have said, the kids need to understand the NHL game. He helps them by mentoring.  

 

You can still be pretty bad with him in the lineup, post deadline they were playing at a pace bad enough to be the worst.  Most last place teams still have good players, I do think there is value in keeping him because A) they need to hit the cap floor, b) our C depth isn't good, I know people want to test Pospisil there but if that doesn't pan out or you get hit with injuries what else do you have?   

[cberg]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

You can still be pretty bad with him in the lineup, post deadline they were playing at a pace bad enough to be the worst.  Most last place teams still have good players, I do think there is value in keeping him because A) they need to hit the cap floor, b) our C depth isn't good, I know people want to test Pospisil there but if that doesn't pan out or you get hit with injuries what else do you have?   

There are multiple guys on the Wranglers… not saying as good, but then again that isn’t the objective.  

[sak22]

56 minutes ago, cberg said:

There are multiple guys on the Wranglers… not saying as good, but then again that isn’t the objective.  

Who?

[cberg]

8 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Who?

Schwindt, Kerins, Morton, Stromgren, Bell…

[robrob74]

23 minutes ago, cberg said:

Schwindt, Kerins, Morton, Stromgren, Bell…

maybe if you're thinking TDL to trade Kadri. It could be the time as it gives younger players the chance to play, and a team looking for an extra punch at center might work.
 

I am on the fence for trading him. If he can help teach the kids, great! I think there is a place for them to learn nuances of the game. They do help him too.
 

So I dunno, I really think it's neat to see this change, and I hope the Flames continue to maintain this as a norm, where guys who wanna be a Flame stay. If they want more to stay, I think that's the answer. To me I ship those ones off. Maybe no one stays, but I think they need to get away from that mentality, it makes it look like you only play in Calgary if they get grossly overpaid. 
 

if they concentrate on drafting and development, I think it's the future of the team. Possibly need a Kadri for that. Backlund might only be around another year? 

[sak22]

2 hours ago, cberg said:

Schwindt, Kerins, Morton, Stromgren, Bell…

Stromgren isn’t a C, Bell also not a C and needs to play in the AHL.  Morton I think will be a winger if he makes the jump.  Schwindt I don’t feel is an NHLer and Kerins I guess we’ll see.  I’m not a fan of throwing kids to the wolves because fans want to lose, not how you develop players.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I’m not a fan of throwing kids to the wolves because fans want to lose, not how you develop players.

 

Pain of losing is the best teacher.

[sak22]

33 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Pain of losing is the best teacher.

No it isn’t.  

[travel_dude]

[travel_dude]

I posted that because it helps when we talk about positions.

Can't say how accurate it really is.

I think they missed our new goalies signed out of Europe.

[MP5029]

9 hours ago, sak22 said:

No it isn’t.  

Actually yes it is.  To fail is ok, as long as you learn and grow from that.  
 

Having said that, it depends on a few factors:

 

1. The individual character 

2. support

while I do get where your coming from, Cgy has done the rely on the vets far too often.  While I get your perspective of having mentorship and some sheltering too many vets clog the pipeline, and has proven to be a play it safe approach that never works.

 

Cgy needs to go very young and build a young core group.  The likes of Backlund, Hubie, Coleman and Kadri will be far too old by the time this happens and it’s best to send them on their way sooner rather than later for 2 reasoned.  Firstly to do right by the players and let them chase a cup, and secondly to get as much asset value return as possible for the team.

 

development comes at the AHL level, it’s longer for some than others.  But Cgy has had a bad history of over seasoning their prospects in favour of playing it safe and going with a Vet…Wolf for example should have been playing regularly in the NHL last year but holding on to Markstrom the vet in the misplaced hope to slide into a playoff spot what the goal…team play however showed otherwise and had nothing to do with trades of key players, they were bad all year.

 

another example of going young, was the playoff run with the Monahan, Tachuck, Gaudreau, Lindhom core…mostly a young team that took time to develop before that.  Mismanagement of players and contracts by BT pooched that and eventually they all

wanted out.  By mismanagement of players and contract some was having been stuck With the likes of

Lucic and some was not locking Tachuck and Gaudreau up longer term.

 

anyway, hopefully the 1 year dealy has not stunted Wolf’s development we will have to wait and see.

 

as for veterans, moving Kadri, Backlund and Huby for any sort of positive return must be done sooner rather than later.  Weegar and Anderson will bridge the leadership gap and with any luck one or of the younger prayers can slide into a leadership role now and another a few years from now when Weegar will also need to be replaced.

 

as for this year, Corroy should really have been looking to bomb, keep as many younger players in the AHL to develop and bring in bad contracts on a 1-2 year term remaining and just tank.  Having said that, it’s too late for that with the likes of Pos, Zary and Wolf all being regular players your point of a loosing culture can’t be ignored they need to develop a win/win attitude and this starts with the C and the coach….this will be a bad team this year with some

surprises of break out or career years, which if coached properly can also avoid the loosing culture by keeping the player motivated to improve personally and as a team day by day…keeping guys over 30 as mentors is not really gonna make that happen, it may make it easier for the coach but ultimately it’s on the coach to do that.

[conundrumed]

Can confirm it was as empty as the pic suggests. 30+C outside on a Sunday, I guess.

Can't get in trouble with the wife when you take her.lol

The never-ending saga of strangers gravitating to my wife for conversation...I think I met every set of player's families. I've been telling her this for years, and she rolls her eyes.

I took to introducing myself as "Lori's Boyfriend" on stage a few years ago. She was completely not impressed, but got over it.lol

Everyone loves it. I am literally her sidekick.lol

So I kind of watched 2 games yesterday. It's not like she's a supermodel (except to me). I think it's her laugh.

 

The US is effing loaded with talent on both teams, we need to watch out. Their development is next level.

Awesome to see Musty finally forgiven for going the OHL route. Cole Hutson is going to be a great player. I couldn't help but think drafting him would have been fantastic.

But we had a great draft nonetheless.

https://teamusa.usahockey.com/news_article/show/1314862

[cberg]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I posted that because it helps when we talk about positions.

Can't say how accurate it really is.

I think they missed our new goalies signed out of Europe.

Thanks, good to see.  I believe, from past history multiple of those positions are fluid, eg Lipinski. Guess we'll see.