Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[redfire11]

So the Caps got Mangiapane for a 2025 2nd. WOW

[Thebrewcrew]

Just now, redfire11 said:

So the Caps got Mangiapane for a 2025 2nd. WOW

Really surprised by that return.

 

Nicely done by Conroy

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, bosn111 said:

We need to consider a few things here when discussing trades, retooling, re-build, etc. We need to consider more than just players and assets, and this should be obvious from the past 20 years of the Flames.

 

1. The GM needs to have a definitive plan about what type of team is wanted on the ice. Sutter was very much a lunch pail, hard nosed, grinding team. Feaster comes in to be more a money guy with little actual team direction. Burke was a place holder until he got the GM he wanted in Treliving who was trying to build a hybrid team based more on possession metrics. I think he got handcuffed by ownership and coaching staff (partially his own fault).

 

Because Conroy has been stuck with a few big, long contracts, it will take time to see the results of his work. Players acquired by Treliving for specific reasons may not fit Conroy’s plan, but there isn’t much he can do with some of the contracts. So what is Conroy’s vision? So far, it looks more like youth who have a blend of size and skill. 
 

I don’t see run and gun, I don’t see max possession, I don’t see defensive shut down, I don’t see lunchpail. There doesn’t appear to be a specific model he is aiming for, more focused on letting the players be who they are and do what they do best. Trying to find that magic chemistry that just works. In a way, a more traditional hockey approach, focused on size and skill.

 

So what players don’t fit that plan? 
 

Age based (over 30)

Huberdeau

Kadri

Coleman

Backlund

Rooney

Weegar

Hanley

 

Size (under 6 feet)

Mangiapane

Coronato

Kuzmenko

Coleman

Hanley

Damiani

Pelletier

 

Skill (personal opinion)

Rooney

Duehr

Hunt

Greer

Klapka

Gilbert

Okhotyuk

Clark

Schwindt

Jones

 

The skill is less needed for the 4th line, could even argue third, so I give some leniency for guys like Greer, Rooney, Klapka, and Duehr.

 

Players like Coleman overcome their size with their tenacity and playing style, while Kuzmenko, Pelletier, and Coronato use their skills better. A few years ago, Mangiapane did both, but the past 2 seasons didn’t really show either consistently.

 

Age is simply an issue that is dealt with in trades, but a few contracts make those difficult. Others like Weegar are barely on the wrong side with another 5 years or so of good service. Coleman see size. Rooney and Hanley are role players on short contracts so little issue there.

 

I would argue that Mangiapane doesn’t fit the plan overall. Andersson appears to meet the team criteria. But Andersson could also bring back a return that would be better long term. Others who might bring back reasonable pieces could be Coronato, Pelletier, Solovyov, Kuznetsov. Not that I want to get rid of them, but some teams may feel they could make the jump with a change of scenery.

 

Anyways, just some things to consider. I am interested to see how Conroy builds the team, and if it works.

This is good but there is a flaw in this, you need to project age by 2-3 years that’s gonna double disqualify a few more players (barely like you mentioned in Weegar case) in the likes of Manji and Anderson while you mentions Weegar being barely on the wrong side of 30 now will be inching towards mid 30’s and other like Backlund and Kadri later 30’s and Hubie solid mid 30’s 

 

This is kind of is a very important thing to consider, as we are talking about what kind of team we are building in the future.

[Thebrewcrew]

I really liked Mangiapane. Was passed over in his first draft, 6th rounder the following year. Really nice story. Enjoyed his game. Hope he has a big contract year in Washington.

 

It was hard to find a spot for him, playing armchair GM. Lots of wingers. He seemed to be odd-man out. I thought they'd have been looking at a 3rd or 4th in return.

[Thebrewcrew]

This is a rebuild.

[MP5029]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Really surprised by that return.

 

Nicely done by Conroy

Lol

called it, I said we was a solid 2nd pick…though I’m not sure why they traded him now…well maybe Conroy didn’t want to risk waiting, running the risk that other teams may not be interested and then have him be stuck on the team and another bad year…

 

all and all good deal.

 

now, then question is, dose Kadri really wanna stay? Dose Hubie? Dose Coleman and Backlund…heck even Weegar? All theses guys signed or are-upped with the impression that Cgy was going to contend not “re-tool” 

 

obviously some players over the past 2 years forced the flames hand to change direction…to them thank you! But none the less we are talking about a bunch of 30+ guys wanting a cup or another cup…

 

this is getting very interesting, did we retain on this? Conroy is clearly cap

space and adding draft capital…I’m wondering about a possible big move at the draft…also we have a few other teams like Det making moves…it’s already becoming the most interesting draft in a number of years…this is getting fun!

[MP5029]

Just now, Thebrewcrew said:

This is a rebuild.

Yup no doubt and about time!

[cross16]

Happy they moved Mang. Wish him the best but you need to leverage the spot alongside Backs for some youth. I also think a change of scenery will be good for Mang. solid return. I would have expected a collection of depth picks so a 2nd is nice value.
 

still not a rebuild for me. If they start to contemplate moving the likes of Weegar and/or Anderson I’d be more onboard with the idea. 

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

This is a rebuild.

its a great return for a player who, while a shallow roster, is excessive. Its a position of abundance... opens a spot for a youth to play, where there was already a logjam.

[JTech780]

Well I am happy to admit I was wrong on this one. Getting a 2nd for Mangiapane without retaining is a huge W for Conroy. Well done.

[manu12]

Very good return if we did no retention, a 2025 pick which could very well be in the upper half of next years 2nd round.

Good move by the Flames as they needed to create a spot for one of the near ready prospects in the top9.

All the best to Andrew, who I saw a bit critical at the beginning of his pro career, but qickly turned my mind with his good play on the 4th line with Ryan and Hathaway and than later with 3M 2.0. Unfortunately he couldn't be that consistant 25-30 goal scorer.

He is probably a replacement for one of Mantha and Pacioretty for the Caps as they are still looking to make the playoffs, even with their core guys getting old.

 

[MP5029]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Well I am happy to admit I was wrong on this one. Getting a 2nd for Mangiapane without retaining is a huge W for Conroy. Well done.

Hey if he waited till TDL and Manj had a bad season, I’m not sure you would have been wrong…but totally get they being happy to be wrong I’d be too, can’t complain about a 2nd and also this opens more cap space which may add more picks?

 

we are now officially the team

with the 5th most cap space…barely but still…also we have few if any holes to plug…this can be weaponized…

[The_People1]

Did we get capfriendly as a throw in?  Please?

[Thebrewcrew]

Sets up an interesting camp.

 

If they don't sign a winger, this opens up a spot with Coleman/Backlund. Expect a  good battle between Coronato/Pelletier for that role.

 

Also looks like there's a 4th line spot open. Opportunity for a Schwindt or Klapka to earn a job.

[manu12]

I stand corrected it's not Washington's pick which I originally thought, but Colorado's.

Still a very good trade.
 

[robrob74]

Keep in mind, Mangiapane is a good two way player, is a valuable penalty killer, and with the right center is a goal scorer. I felt he had some value and a 2nd is decent. He isn't Debincrat, but I feel maybe a bit closer than some give him credit for. He can score 20, was hamstrung a bit this year with some bad luck, and maybe with the East style of play may score a bit more than last year?

[sak22]

I did not expect a pick that high regardless of the year or no retention.  Hard to be disappointed in this, drafted a guy in the 6th round got 100 goals and 200 points out of him and then turned him to a 2nd, not too shabby.  But honestly I have no idea what Washington is doing this offseason.

[Otown72]

Is there any 'bad' contracts out there? Could get more picks.

Skinner might have been worth it for the 11th but that ship has sailed😄

 

Laine perhaps. I dunno.

Curious as to what's coming during the draft and July 1st.

[tmac70]

51 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Happy they moved Mang. Wish him the best but you need to leverage the spot alongside Backs for some youth. I also think a change of scenery will be good for Mang. solid return. I would have expected a collection of depth picks so a 2nd is nice value.
 

still not a rebuild for me. If they start to contemplate moving the likes of Weegar and/or Anderson I’d be more onboard with the idea. 

100%, the minute they move Kadri or Anderson  than its a rebuild

[cross16]

Debrusk continues to be linked to the flames too. Certainly savy to get a 2nd and then pick up a similar player 

 

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Lol

called it, I said we was a solid 2nd pick…though I’m not sure why they traded him now…well maybe Conroy didn’t want to risk waiting, running the risk that other teams may not be interested and then have him be stuck on the team and another bad year…

 

all and all good deal.

 

now, then question is, dose Kadri really wanna stay? Dose Hubie? Dose Coleman and Backlund…heck even Weegar? All theses guys signed or are-upped with the impression that Cgy was going to contend not “re-tool” 

 

obviously some players over the past 2 years forced the flames hand to change direction…to them thank you! But none the less we are talking about a bunch of 30+ guys wanting a cup or another cup…

 

this is getting very interesting, did we retain on this? Conroy is clearly cap

space and adding draft capital…I’m wondering about a possible big move at the draft…also we have a few other teams like Det making moves…it’s already becoming the most interesting draft in a number of years…this is getting fun!

That is an amazing return really.. love the player ..but he's being paid for the career season he may likely never do again..

2nd rounder form a team likely to suck next year .. so almost as good as a late first .. 

And reading between the lines likely indicated he was not keen on resigning 

 

We have almost $29 M in cap room now .. room for Coronato..

This has throw some money at Debrusk and Duclair written all over it 

 

Just saw it was Colorado's pick.. so late 2nd but still a great return for no retention 

[Thebrewcrew]

For what it's worth, the 2nd is Colorado's. Likely in the 58-64 range, knowing how good the Avs are.

[MP5029]

7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

For what it's worth, the 2nd is Colorado's. Likely in the 58-64 range, knowing how good the Avs are.

For now, I’m not confident we keep that pick till 2025, or if we do it’s cause we move ours to move up or in a trade/draft.

[Thebrewcrew]

this would be a significant move from the Panthers, but probably a smart one. Injuries have always been an issue with Ekblad. Hes

coming off a 51 game season where he had 18pts.

1yr left. He will be 29 when an extension kick in. Zito isn’t afraid to make the big trade.

[MP5029]

14 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

That is an amazing return really.. love the player ..but he's being paid for the career season he may likely never do again..

2nd rounder form a team likely to suck next year .. so almost as good as a late first .. 

And reading between the lines likely indicated he was not keen on resigning 

 

We have almost $29 M in cap room now .. room for Coronato..

This has throw some money at Debrusk and Duclair written all over it 

 

Just saw it was Colorado's pick.. so late 2nd but still a great return for no retention 

Mmm I don’t get that feeling, it has use the cap space to take bad contracts, get more Picks feel.