Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[redfire11]

I could see Utah giving up 2024 2nd 2 x 2025 2nds and 2026 second with one of the four being their own pick for Anderson

and I would take it.

[Thebrewcrew]

This time of the year it’s very, very hard to get picks in the upcoming draft.

 

Teams start to get attached to the picks because they have an idea of who they can get.

 

I think the best play is to deal Andersson at the deadline. Sell two playoff runs. I think you can get three or four pieces for him.

[420since1974]

I'm very curious as to why so many people appear to want to trade 27 year old Rasmus Andersson.

He's a solid 2/3 RSRD on a team friendly contract that runs for two more years.

His career average for an 82 game season is 36 points which he has surpassed for the last 3 seasons in a row.

The Flames don't have anyone in the organization that is likely to be able to replace him anytime soon.

So, why do so many fans want to create another major hole in an already shaky lineup?

[MP5029]

7 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I could see Utah giving up 2024 2nd 2 x 2025 2nds and 2026 second with one of the four being their own pick for Anderson

and I would take it.

No hard pass, you wait till after UFA, but before training camp. Teams that need D and missed out on top UFA D will pay about what we paid for Hamilton.

[JTech780]

7 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

I'm very curious as to why so many people appear to want to trade 27 year old Rasmus Andersson.

He's a solid 2/3 RSRD on a team friendly contract that runs for two more years.

His career average for an 82 game season is 36 points which he has surpassed for the last 3 seasons in a row.

The Flames don't have anyone in the organization that is likely to be able to replace him anytime soon.

So, why do so many fans want to create another major hole in an already shaky lineup?

For me it’s about maximizing assets. I wouldn’t move Andersson just to move him at this point. That being said with 2 years left on his deal, and the likelihood of him re-signing long term being low, you have to at least explore what you can get for him. If you can turn him into a top 10 pick in the draft then that’s a deal you definitely have to look at.

[cross16]

7 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

I'm very curious as to why so many people appear to want to trade 27 year old Rasmus Andersson.

He's a solid 2/3 RSRD on a team friendly contract that runs for two more years.

His career average for an 82 game season is 36 points which he has surpassed for the last 3 seasons in a row.

The Flames don't have anyone in the organization that is likely to be able to replace him anytime soon.

So, why do so many fans want to create another major hole in an already shaky lineup?

 

On the flipside of this, if this lineup is already bad and won't be much better for a couple of seasons likely why are we keeping a player who by the time this is good is going to be post apex?

 

I like Rasmus but I don't think retaining a player like him makes sense where the Flames are at this point in time. by the time they are better he's going to be a 30 year old UFA needing a bigger deal. Doesn't fit.

 

Go and get assets now that can help you be better in 2-3 years. I don't think he gets you a top 10 pick but I do think he gets you a good young player and that be my target. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

On the flipside of this, if this lineup is already bad and won't be much better for a couple of seasons likely why are we keeping a player who by the time this is good is going to be post apex?

 

I like Rasmus but I don't think retaining a player like him makes sense where the Flames are at this point in time. by the time they are better he's going to be a 30 year old UFA needing a bigger deal. Doesn't fit.

 

Go and get assets now that can help you be better in 2-3 years. I don't think he gets you a top 10 pick but I do think he gets you a good young player and that be my target. 

 

It's Mark Giordano all over again.

 

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's Mark Giordano all over again.

 

 

That's pretty drastic, I don't think he tips the scales drastically if he stays or goes but unlike Gio who by the time he needed to be reupped the team had Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, and Brodie and they looked on the upswing, in a year they can look to extend Andersson and I don't see the same potential for Andersson wanting to extend.  I also don't believe Gio alone destroyed things the last time.

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, sak22 said:

That's pretty drastic, I don't think he tips the scales drastically if he stays or goes but unlike Gio who by the time he needed to be reupped the team had Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, and Brodie and they looked on the upswing, in a year they can look to extend Andersson and I don't see the same potential for Andersson wanting to extend.  I also don't believe Gio alone destroyed things the last time.

 

It's not about that.  It's about timing the peak of the new core.  Look at FLA, core guys all 23 to 29... In that range.  How old will Andersson be when the Flames new core is 23-29 and ready to contend?  Better to grab a high pick who could be 23-29 by the time the rest of the core is also 23-29.

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

I'm very curious as to why so many people appear to want to trade 27 year old Rasmus Andersson.

He's a solid 2/3 RSRD on a team friendly contract that runs for two more years.

His career average for an 82 game season is 36 points which he has surpassed for the last 3 seasons in a row.

The Flames don't have anyone in the organization that is likely to be able to replace him anytime soon.

So, why do so many fans want to create another major hole in an already shaky lineup?

I definitely am in no rush to move him. Like you say, that contract is a bargain for 2 more seasons. I don't want the team completely gutted, still need leaders like him. I think many are kind of romanticizing rebuilds. Once you are completely in the gutter, it is not an easy, or fast, climb to get out of it.

SJ is having a tidy offseason so far, and will have a great draft, like last year when they drafted Will Smith, Musty, Haltunnen. Great picks.

Still some years away from getting out of the gutter. They'll have Celebrini and Smith down the middle, awesome. It's still going to be awhile.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I definitely am in no rush to move him. Like you say, that contract is a bargain for 2 more seasons. I don't want the team completely gutted, still need leaders like him. I think many are kind of romanticizing rebuilds. Once you are completely in the gutter, it is not an easy, or fast, climb to get out of it.

SJ is having a tidy offseason so far, and will have a great draft, like last year when they drafted Will Smith, Musty, Haltunnen. Great picks.

Still some years away from getting out of the gutter. They'll have Celebrini and Smith down the middle, awesome. It's still going to be awhile.

 

The faster we take the first steps, the faster we get to the destination.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The faster we take the first steps, the faster we get to the destination.

The gutter? lol

[tmac70]

We are currently teetering on the fence of rebuilding or retooling. If they move Anderson or Kadri I see no reason why you try to keep this thing afloat, which to me is more dangerous they retooling, I just see SJ, ANA, BUFF, and EDM as never being able to get over that hurdle for many many years, I just don't see the fans buying into yup I will pay thousands of dollars to wallow in the basement for ever. 

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

We are currently teetering on the fence of rebuilding or retooling. If they move Anderson or Kadri I see no reason why you try to keep this thing afloat, which to me is more dangerous they retooling, I just see SJ, ANA, BUFF, and EDM as never being able to get over that hurdle for many many years, I just don't see the fans buying into yup I will pay thousands of dollars to wallow in the basement for ever. 

 

Whatever pronoun makes you feel better bro.  Rebuilding, retooling,... we going to turn the roster over and go young.  We need to.  We should.  It's the natural cycle of sports franchises.  If we embrace it and work hard at it, then we could come out the Florida Panthers.  Those were some bleak years when they drafted Ekblad, Barkov, Huberdeau, etc.  But it's got to be done.

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

We are currently teetering on the fence of rebuilding or retooling. If they move Anderson or Kadri I see no reason why you try to keep this thing afloat, which to me is more dangerous they retooling, I just see SJ, ANA, BUFF, and EDM as never being able to get over that hurdle for many many years, I just don't see the fans buying into yup I will pay thousands of dollars to wallow in the basement for ever. 

And Detroit.😢

[tmac70]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Whatever pronoun makes you feel better bro.  Rebuilding, retooling,... we going to turn the roster over and go young.  We need to.  We should.  It's the natural cycle of sports franchises.  If we embrace it and work hard at it, then we could come out the Florida Panthers.  Those were some bleak years when they drafted Ekblad, Barkov, Huberdeau, etc.  But it's got to be done.

It's the continually spiraling down that doesn't compute with me from a financial perspective. The fact that there is no guarantee of a positive upside. So we draft 6 players in the first rounds in the next 3 years, there is no certainty that we don't have a Monahan, Chucky, and Bennett situation in 4 to 5 years once again. FLA has Ekblad and Barkov the rest were trades that made this roster. Multiple 1st that didn't pan out on their drafted team. Bennet, Chucky and Reinhart of which we have 2. Its not that we have not had the players in the past few years, its just tough to get everything to line up 

[The_People1]

9 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

It's the continually spiraling down that doesn't compute with me from a financial perspective. The fact that there is no guarantee of a positive upside. So we draft 6 players in the first rounds in the next 3 years, there is no certainty that we don't have a Monahan, Chucky, and Bennett situation in 4 to 5 years once again. FLA has Ekblad and Barkov the rest were trades that made this roster. Multiple 1st that didn't pan out on their drafted team. Bennet, Chucky and Reinhart of which we have 2. Its not that we have not had the players in the past few years, its just tough to get everything to line up 

 

That's why the faster we bottom out the better.  Slow bleed is the worst.  It drags out the overall timeline.

 

Furthermore, we have a good idea who would be there at 6oa.  Unlike next year's draft which is largely unknown.  This year is more clear.  If Utah prefers Andersson than to draft, then let's take advantage of it.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I definitely am in no rush to move him. Like you say, that contract is a bargain for 2 more seasons. I don't want the team completely gutted, still need leaders like him. I think many are kind of romanticizing rebuilds. Once you are completely in the gutter, it is not an easy, or fast, climb to get out of it.

SJ is having a tidy offseason so far, and will have a great draft, like last year when they drafted Will Smith, Musty, Haltunnen. Great picks.

Still some years away from getting out of the gutter. They'll have Celebrini and Smith down the middle, awesome. It's still going to be awhile.

 

Just to clarify my position I don't want to trade Rasmus to race to the gutter. I want to trade him now because I think with 2 years left on his deal you can extract more young/players and prospects. The more you wait the more that's going to change to just picks. 

 

It's an asset management discussion for me. 

[sak22]

 

A look at what the cost will be around to move up from 9.  

[bosn111]

We need to consider a few things here when discussing trades, retooling, re-build, etc. We need to consider more than just players and assets, and this should be obvious from the past 20 years of the Flames.

 

1. The GM needs to have a definitive plan about what type of team is wanted on the ice. Sutter was very much a lunch pail, hard nosed, grinding team. Feaster comes in to be more a money guy with little actual team direction. Burke was a place holder until he got the GM he wanted in Treliving who was trying to build a hybrid team based more on possession metrics. I think he got handcuffed by ownership and coaching staff (partially his own fault).

 

Because Conroy has been stuck with a few big, long contracts, it will take time to see the results of his work. Players acquired by Treliving for specific reasons may not fit Conroy’s plan, but there isn’t much he can do with some of the contracts. So what is Conroy’s vision? So far, it looks more like youth who have a blend of size and skill. 
 

I don’t see run and gun, I don’t see max possession, I don’t see defensive shut down, I don’t see lunchpail. There doesn’t appear to be a specific model he is aiming for, more focused on letting the players be who they are and do what they do best. Trying to find that magic chemistry that just works. In a way, a more traditional hockey approach, focused on size and skill.

 

So what players don’t fit that plan? 
 

Age based (over 30)

Huberdeau

Kadri

Coleman

Backlund

Rooney

Weegar

Hanley

 

Size (under 6 feet)

Mangiapane

Coronato

Kuzmenko

Coleman

Hanley

Damiani

Pelletier

 

Skill (personal opinion)

Rooney

Duehr

Hunt

Greer

Klapka

Gilbert

Okhotyuk

Clark

Schwindt

Jones

 

The skill is less needed for the 4th line, could even argue third, so I give some leniency for guys like Greer, Rooney, Klapka, and Duehr.

 

Players like Coleman overcome their size with their tenacity and playing style, while Kuzmenko, Pelletier, and Coronato use their skills better. A few years ago, Mangiapane did both, but the past 2 seasons didn’t really show either consistently.

 

Age is simply an issue that is dealt with in trades, but a few contracts make those difficult. Others like Weegar are barely on the wrong side with another 5 years or so of good service. Coleman see size. Rooney and Hanley are role players on short contracts so little issue there.

 

I would argue that Mangiapane doesn’t fit the plan overall. Andersson appears to meet the team criteria. But Andersson could also bring back a return that would be better long term. Others who might bring back reasonable pieces could be Coronato, Pelletier, Solovyov, Kuznetsov. Not that I want to get rid of them, but some teams may feel they could make the jump with a change of scenery.

 

Anyways, just some things to consider. I am interested to see how Conroy builds the team, and if it works.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Just to clarify my position I don't want to trade Rasmus to race to the gutter. I want to trade him now because I think with 2 years left on his deal you can extract more young/players and prospects. The more you wait the more that's going to change to just picks. 

 

It's an asset management discussion for me. 

 

Easier to to reply to one person.

Ras is at discussion because it is the same situation as Markstrom was.  You have an asset that is signed for a few more years.  Has a lot of value in trade.  Unless you are 100% convinced he is core and will re-up him whatever he costs, you have to view him as whether he has high value that can change the franchise, not just get an asset back.

 

I'm still a bit iffy on whether he has enough to be a #1 on this team.  He doesn't do some things that I feel would make him a 1.  That's just me, but I am still in wait and see mode.  If someone blows you away with an offer and it means you are way better off, then it should be a no brainer

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, sak22 said:

 

A look at what the cost will be around to move up from 9.  

As I mentioned before, SJ has been having a solid offseason so far.

Serravelli reported a lot of GMs had no idea about Walman being moved with a 2nd and are a bit miffed about not knowing.

Something's up that involves Detroit and SJ. Why not waive Walman? He would have likely been claimed. Why not try that first?

Something's up. 11 going to Detroit? Maybe they want Eiserman? Need a snipe.

I'm just surmising, but there has to be more to giving away Walman and a 2nd.

 

[JTech780]

Any interest in Brannstrom? The only way it makes sense to me is if they can’t get Kylington signed.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Any interest in Brannstrom? The only way it makes sense to me is if they can’t get Kylington signed.

 

Nope. Doesn't fit their style and not really worth even a roll of the dice at this point. Doesn't defend well

[manu12]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

As I mentioned before, SJ has been having a solid offseason so far.

Serravelli reported a lot of GMs had no idea about Walman being moved with a 2nd and are a bit miffed about not knowing.

Something's up that involves Detroit and SJ. Why not waive Walman? He would have likely been claimed. Why not try that first?

Something's up. 11 going to Detroit? Maybe they want Eiserman? Need a snipe.

I'm just surmising, but there has to be more to giving away Walman and a 2nd.

 

Yeah that Walman trade got me bit baffled, too. I'm sure there would have been at least a couple of teams, who would take him from waivers.

And how funny would that be if GM Yzerman announces the selection of Eiserman 😂