cberg Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 Hanifin is the key, once that is sorted and he is either re-signed or said he's leaving, things will happen. Hopefully very soon. Can't see the Flames going scorched earth rebuild, so assume we will have Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Backlund, Anderson, Kylington, Sharangovich, Mangiapanne Coleman and Markstrom for a few years. I would like to add Kuzmenko and continue to add kids maturing up from the AHL. If we trade Hanifin, and Tanev this month there likely will be several additional vets traded and we'd be looking at a 2027 target for "Success" to coincide with the new building. If we re-signed both D and Conroy continues savvy pick-ups/selective trades of under-utilized skilled players I think they could probably remain relevant and slowly grow into the future. Looking at other teams failures, I don't think there is any way to get above the 5-6 pick (outside of the lottery) so success is going to be through great scouting and development over drafting a 'blue chip' superstar or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 On 2/5/2024 at 10:48 AM, robrob74 said: ya, I don't want to trade for a player like that. Dubois only plays when he feels it, same with Laine. Duchesne seems to have played a bit better but still wasn't a player I'd want. In terms of skill and under-utilization both PLD and Laine seem like great, cheap targets, unfortunately their 'other' issues make success highly problematic, as already proven on multiple teams. Does the Flames management, including Conroy, Iginla, others have what it takes to rebuild broken careers...? Can the Flames build a powerhouse out of "misfits", kind of like Vegas did with all those players left unprotected and picked up in the expansion draft.... who had a chip on their shoulders to prove former teams wrong? That would be a sneaky way to build talent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, cberg said: Hanifin is the key, once that is sorted and he is either re-signed or said he's leaving, things will happen. Hopefully very soon. Can't see the Flames going scorched earth rebuild, so assume we will have Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Backlund, Anderson, Kylington, Sharangovich, Mangiapanne Coleman and Markstrom for a few years. I would like to add Kuzmenko and continue to add kids maturing up from the AHL. If we trade Hanifin, and Tanev this month there likely will be several additional vets traded and we'd be looking at a 2027 target for "Success" to coincide with the new building. If we re-signed both D and Conroy continues savvy pick-ups/selective trades of under-utilized skilled players I think they could probably remain relevant and slowly grow into the future. Looking at other teams failures, I don't think there is any way to get above the 5-6 pick (outside of the lottery) so success is going to be through great scouting and development over drafting a 'blue chip' superstar or anything else. We're on what...a 4 game road trip?.. my prediction is hanifin comes home signed..or doesn't come home at all... The ultimatum has been given .. Laine is one i'd take a chance on.. he's never struck me as a lazy player..just perhaps a misused one .. he's another one who does what he does well.. but needs a partner in crime . He doesn't generate many of his own chances but he finishes them really well Pld has been a lazy prima Donna since his sophomore year .. I called that a bad trade and deal for LA when it was made 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: We're on what...a 4 game road trip?.. my prediction is hanifin comes home signed..or doesn't come home at all... The ultimatum has been given .. Laine is one i'd take a chance on.. he's never struck me as a lazy player..just perhaps a misused one .. he's another one who does what he does well.. but needs a partner in crime . He doesn't generate many of his own chances but he finishes them really well Pld has been a lazy prima Donna since his sophomore year .. I called that a bad trade and deal for LA when it was made Not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing. Just playing on the hypothetical of your suggestions: Does Huberdeau play with Kuzmenko or Laine? Huberdeau, Sharangovich, Kuzmenko Zary, Kadri, Laine Pelletier, Backlund, Coleman Greer, Rooney, Pospisil Laine would push Pospisil out, and maybe (like you said) we trade Mangiapane and retain on his contract to make it attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 34 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing. Just playing on the hypothetical of your suggestions: Does Huberdeau play with Kuzmenko or Laine? Huberdeau, Sharangovich, Kuzmenko Zary, Kadri, Laine Pelletier, Backlund, Coleman Greer, Rooney, Pospisil Laine would push Pospisil out, and maybe (like you said) we trade Mangiapane and retain on his contract to make it attractive. At that stage is where you start to have problems that are good to have .. but ya at his tag right now I'd have no issues moving mange.. in the above scenario I'd be Tempted to swap Laine and Pelletier .. playing with backs and Coleman keeps you with more time.in the O zone.. backs can set upaine for his shot when he's not doing pp time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 Laine has been benched by multiple coaches now for his effort level and attention to details. I've seen shifts where he won't even move and just sit there waiting for the puck. Totally get trying to work with a player strengths but I don't' think you win with players like Laine. I woudln't take him for free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 8 minutes ago, cross16 said: Laine has been benched by multiple coaches now for his effort level and attention to details. I've seen shifts where he won't even move and just sit there waiting for the puck. Totally get trying to work with a player strengths but I don't' think you win with players like Laine. I woudln't take him for free. Isn't he on player assistance right now, so not even available for trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 29 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Isn't he on player assistance right now, so not even available for trade? He can be traded.. just like an ltir player can..he just brings his designation with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: He can be traded.. just like an ltir player can..he just brings his designation with him So, help me understand. He has a M-NTC. He's away from the team under the Player Assistance program. How would they be allowed to trade him while on the program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 I would be interested in Klim Kostin from Detroit as a start for a trade for Hannifin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 41 minutes ago, redfire11 said: I would be interested in Klim Kostin from Detroit as a start for a trade for Hannifin Any trade involving Hanifin or Tanev has got to focus on another D coming back. Its getting too thin back there already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, robrob74 said: Not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing. Just playing on the hypothetical of your suggestions: Does Huberdeau play with Kuzmenko or Laine? Huberdeau, Sharangovich, Kuzmenko Zary, Kadri, Laine Pelletier, Backlund, Coleman Greer, Rooney, Pospisil Laine would push Pospisil out, and maybe (like you said) we trade Mangiapane and retain on his contract to make it attractive. I'd probably keep the top two lines intact, with Pospisil on Kadri's RW. Make Mangiapanne and the 4th flexible, fitting the best of Mangiapanne, Pelletier, Coronato and fill in the blank... Laine may not work, especially if his work & team ethic is problematic. A development/trade focus would be replacements for Kadri/Backlund/Coleman in the next year or three... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: So, help me understand. He has a M-NTC. He's away from the team under the Player Assistance program. How would they be allowed to trade him while on the program? He would just have to agree to the trade...would not change his being in the program at all and the flames would just have to treat him as such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, phoenix66 said: He would just have to agree to the trade...would not change his being in the program at all and the flames would just have to treat him as such I don't see how that would fly. A player gets a NTC because he negotiates it in. The team just can't trade him due to being away on a NHL sponsored program. The league has to approve the trade, to see if his NTC was respected. On a what makes sense view, you are on a break for mental health, substance abuse or such and the team is allowed to move you at will? How to does contribute to getting healthy again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I don't see how that would fly. A player gets a NTC because he negotiates it in. The team just can't trade him due to being away on a NHL sponsored program. The league has to approve the trade, to see if his NTC was respected. On a what makes sense view, you are on a break for mental health, substance abuse or such and the team is allowed to move you at will? How to does contribute to getting healthy again? my bet is Phoenix is thinking he'd have to waive. I get it's negotiated in but teams still ask if players would wave. It's not like it has never been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Just spitballing now that Sergachev is out for TBL Hannifin 50% retained salary and a 2024 3rd to TBL Lilleberg and Hagel to Cgy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 13 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: Any trade involving Hanifin or Tanev has got to focus on another D coming back. Its getting too thin back there already. same-position trades are possible but hard to do. best way to accomplish that imho is to trade for picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 9 hours ago, travel_dude said: I don't see how that would fly. A player gets a NTC because he negotiates it in. The team just can't trade him due to being away on a NHL sponsored program. The league has to approve the trade, to see if his NTC was respected. On a what makes sense view, you are on a break for mental health, substance abuse or such and the team is allowed to move you at will? How to does contribute to getting healthy again? I think you mistook... I didnt mean he HAS to waive .. you asked how it's possible, I mean it's like a normal trade IF he agrees.. being in the program doesn't preclude a trade being allowed to happen .same as being on IR.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 9 hours ago, redfire11 said: Just spitballing now that Sergachev is out for TBL Hannifin 50% retained salary and a 2024 3rd to TBL Lilleberg and Hagel to Cgy That's a stiff price to pay to get back a decent LW. At the very least, a retained salary transaction should not have us include any other assets. Can't say I know anything about Lilleberg, but maybe he should be the cost to retain salary. Honestly, TB is going to be difficult to deal with. They have spent their wad to get a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: I think you mistook... I didnt mean he HAS to waive .. you asked how it's possible, I mean it's like a normal trade IF he agrees.. being in the program doesn't preclude a trade being allowed to happen .same as being on IR.. What I was getting at was that a player on the program probably should be left alone. It's a tough enough business when you are not away from the game, facing criticism by fans and media, impact to home life and possibly having to uproot your family due to a last minute trade. I don't think a player going on this program says that they want a trade and can't play for the team anymore. That would be more of a Zadorov type thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Tampa isn't locked into the playoffs and don't have the ability to sign Hanifin next year. I don't see why they'd be interested and I definitely don't see then giving up Hagel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, jjgallow said: same-position trades are possible but hard to do. best way to accomplish that imho is to trade for picks. Ya agreed. Usually the team acquiring the D needs D and don't have D to give back. Easier to find a team that has lots of D and needs Forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 36 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Ya agreed. Usually the team acquiring the D needs D and don't have D to give back. Easier to find a team that has lots of D and needs Forwards. That would be my expectation. With Lindholm trade, I didn't expect to get a F back. But we did get two D future prospects. I would want a C back in a trade for Hanifin (or Tanev), but that may not work. At the very least we should be getting a 1st ++. We can always later trade the 1st for a C for a team needing a draft pick, but they didn't want to make the trade during the season. I know that sounds dumb, but sometimes that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 6 hours ago, travel_dude said: That would be my expectation. With Lindholm trade, I didn't expect to get a F back. But we did get two D future prospects. I would want a C back in a trade for Hanifin (or Tanev), but that may not work. At the very least we should be getting a 1st ++. We can always later trade the 1st for a C for a team needing a draft pick, but they didn't want to make the trade during the season. I know that sounds dumb, but sometimes that works. I think it really depends on the other teams needs and what they might need to offload. In the Lindholm trade, they needed to trade away Kuzmenko or Zadorov, and we weren't taking Zaddy back for it to work. Are there teams with a D that is a good NHLer but doesn't fit the system? One can look at Montour as a guy that was like that but is good for his new team? Not the same, but Hanifin is a guy that can probably play anywhere with the way he plays, so would be desired by teams looking for a D... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 32 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I think it really depends on the other teams needs and what they might need to offload. In the Lindholm trade, they needed to trade away Kuzmenko or Zadorov, and we weren't taking Zaddy back for it to work. Are there teams with a D that is a good NHLer but doesn't fit the system? One can look at Montour as a guy that was like that but is good for his new team? Not the same, but Hanifin is a guy that can probably play anywhere with the way he plays, so would be desired by teams looking for a D... I would say the only way we get a D back in trade now is if they have a young one that they want to swap with a vet D. I don't think is likely to happen. Van was a team that had too many F and getting a C/RW meant they had to cut a F. And we actually didn't have any depth on F unless we got back a F. The trade, even without Kuz, was still a good trade. I doubt we see that same level of return for Hanifin or Tanev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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