2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[robrob74]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

While true it was still a really bad pick at the time and IMO is one of the better example you have of prioritizing position over the better player. Vancouver were public they wanted a dman and passed on a better player to take the position. 

 

Most of their own fans boo'd the pick at the draft party. 

 

4 minutes ago, sak22 said:

True, I do think its very fair to point to his injuries as part of his problems.  I just think its a case of reaching on a position and not drafting the guy who was ranked higher on most boards, even if he hit his draft day potential I still take what I know about Tkachuk over that any day of the week.

 

 

Definitely not saying they should have picked him, just pointing out that the career was derailed. Glad they didn't pick Tkachuk for sure!

[The_People1]

43 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Always remember that time Vancouver prioritized D, not only did they pass on the 2nd best player in the first round they also didn't get an NHL d man in a draft that produced several very great ones, even though they took the one ranked highest on most boards.  For me the only ones I take over Catton that I think could be in range are Buium and Dickinson, I would even take Iginla over Yak, I'm also certain Levshunov will be long gone and I still don't know how I feel about Silayev if he fell to #9.

 

Yes, I meant, if it came down to Dickinson vs Catton (which is a likely scenario) then I would go with Dickinson.  Not because Dickinson is clearly better but just that the margin is so close.  Prioritize D in that case.  I don't think Tkachuk and Joulevi was close at the time.  A good comparable would be Yakemchuk over Catton.  I think Catton is clearly a more impactful player than Yakemchuk.

 

I'm with you on Silayev too.  The lack of offense doesn't justify a top 10 pick.  It would be reaching for potential.  Based on what I've seen, the defense is overrated too.  Poor attack angles in the D zone and really relies on his size and reach to recover.  He's spoiled that way and it may not translate well to the NHL.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes, I meant, if it came down to Dickinson vs Catton (which is a likely scenario) then I would go with Dickinson.  Not because Dickinson is clearly better but just that the margin is so close.  Prioritize D in that case.  I don't think Tkachuk and Joulevi was close at the time.  A good comparable would be Yakemchuk over Catton.  I think Catton is clearly a more impactful player than Yakemchuk.

 

I'm with you on Silayev too.  The lack of offense doesn't justify a top 10 pick.  It would be reaching for potential.  Based on what I've seen, the defense is overrated too.  Poor attack angles in the D zone and really relies on his size and reach to recover.  He's spoiled that way and it may not translate well to the NHL.

 

 

Not saying Honzek was a big reach, but my worry is they skip on a guy because they prefer the size. I am not saying Honzek is a Keenan Kanzig reach, just that I hope he is able to surpass guys they skipped over to get his size. Hope Honzek has a good year next season, and that we draft according to the BPA and not on BPw/sizeA. 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Sam Cosentino's 2023 Mock Draft: Plenty of intrigue after No. 1 (sportsnet.ca)

 

Last year's mock from Cosentino. He had the Flames taking Honzek. Wasn't a reach by any means.

 

The hope has to be health in the coming season for Honzek.

[Thebrewcrew]

If the Flames want to trade up from 28th, I think LA is the team to call.

 

They have the 21st pick, then they don't pick again until 118th.

 

I wonder if the Flames could get 21st for 28th and 62nd. Steep price to pay, but jumping 7 spots is rather substantial.

 

I'd probably advocate for the Flames to stick at 28th, the only way trading up makes sense is if they want a centre. If they go to 21, one of Luchanko, Beaudoin, Boisvert should be available.

[MP5029]

Why is everyone saying D is the priority, Conroy stocked up a ton of young D at the TDL…I’m actually thinking that’s the best way to go given D take

so much longer to develop why draft them? 
 

draft priority should be Skill, Speed, IQ Size and RS then LS Ctrs only…you can trade a big RS skilled Ctr for a kings ransom including a number 1 D if needed why waist time focus on the money maker at Ctr you stock those you can trade for any position you need to fill out.

 

Proof is in the pudding, of the UFA’s we traded this year Hanifin, Big Z, Tanev, Lindhom, Toff (did I miss anyone?) it doesn’t matter…the absolute best return was the Lindhom deal probably as good on its own as all the other deals combined less Hanifin…having said that Lindhom deal was far better than Hanifin…oh right Marksstrom now too but even that was far less than Lindhom who was to be honest not as good at Hanifin, Tanev or Markstrom…point in case RS Ctrs with skill and size draft develop and when needed use to buy the holes you need filled via trades

[conundrumed]

27 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Why is everyone saying D is the priority, Conroy stocked up a ton of young D at the TDL…I’m actually thinking that’s the best way to go given D take

so much longer to develop why draft them? 
 

draft priority should be Skill, Speed, IQ Size and RS then LS Ctrs only…you can trade a big RS skilled Ctr for a kings ransom including a number 1 D if needed why waist time focus on the money maker at Ctr you stock those you can trade for any position you need to fill out.

 

Proof is in the pudding, of the UFA’s we traded this year Hanifin, Big Z, Tanev, Lindhom, Toff (did I miss anyone?) it doesn’t matter…the absolute best return was the Lindhom deal probably as good on its own as all the other deals combined less Hanifin…having said that Lindhom deal was far better than Hanifin…oh right Marksstrom now too but even that was far less than Lindhom who was to be honest not as good at Hanifin, Tanev or Markstrom…point in case RS Ctrs with skill and size draft develop and when needed use to buy the holes you need filled via trades

That isn't proof at all. Those dmen are meh.

Hampus Lindholm was traded in his last year for a 1st, 2-2nds and 2 prospects. So for more than Elias Lindolm.

You're dreaming if you think Conroy has acquired bonafide top 4 D prospects via trade. He hasn't. Our D prospect pool is pretty much a trainwreck.

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[tmac70]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If the Flames want to trade up from 28th, I think LA is the team to call.

 

They have the 21st pick, then they don't pick again until 118th.

 

I wonder if the Flames could get 21st for 28th and 62nd. Steep price to pay, but jumping 7 spots is rather substantial.

 

I'd probably advocate for the Flames to stick at 28th, the only way trading up makes sense is if they want a centre. If they go to 21, one of Luchanko, Beaudoin, Boisvert should be available.

Has that discussion with a fellow Flames fan, Is trading up worth the risk

[tmac70]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

That isn't proof at all. Those dmen are meh.

Hampus Lindholm was traded in his last year for a 1st, 2-2nds and 2 prospects. So for more than Elias Lindolm.

You're dreaming if you think Conroy has acquired bonafide top 4 D prospects via trade. He hasn't. Our D prospect pool is pretty much a trainwreck.

Yup and if it doesn't get address its going to be a loooooong year for the tenders

[Thebrewcrew]

7 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Has that discussion with a fellow Flames fan, Is trading up worth the risk

I don't think so. Personally, I'd rather keep the 2nd's or 3rd's it would take to move at. Extra chances at finding a player.

 

I think they'll explore moving up though.

[JTech780]

In this draft I would trade up from 28th. I think the talent drops off pretty dramatically after about 20th. The Flames also lack top end prospects, so if you can add two this summer I would move some of the surplus picks.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If the Flames want to trade up from 28th, I think LA is the team to call.

 

They have the 21st pick, then they don't pick again until 118th.

 

I wonder if the Flames could get 21st for 28th and 62nd. Steep price to pay, but jumping 7 spots is rather substantial.

 

I'd probably advocate for the Flames to stick at 28th, the only way trading up makes sense is if they want a centre. If they go to 21, one of Luchanko, Beaudoin, Boisvert should be available.

 

At 21 Hage may be available.  

A trade of 2 picks to get the player vs waiting in hopes he drops or somebody else you like does.

Honestly, it depends on what teams are picking up to that point.

If the player you covet is gone, then don't bother.

I don't know how fast Connie is on the draw, though.

He's still not as savy as some so he may not be able to swing in time.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Why is everyone saying D is the priority, Conroy stocked up a ton of young D at the TDL…I’m actually thinking that’s the best way to go given D take

so much longer to develop why draft them? 
 

draft priority should be Skill, Speed, IQ Size and RS then LS Ctrs only…you can trade a big RS skilled Ctr for a kings ransom including a number 1 D if needed why waist time focus on the money maker at Ctr you stock those you can trade for any position you need to fill out.

 

Proof is in the pudding, of the UFA’s we traded this year Hanifin, Big Z, Tanev, Lindhom, Toff (did I miss anyone?) it doesn’t matter…the absolute best return was the Lindhom deal probably as good on its own as all the other deals combined less Hanifin…having said that Lindhom deal was far better than Hanifin…oh right Marksstrom now too but even that was far less than Lindhom who was to be honest not as good at Hanifin, Tanev or Markstrom…point in case RS Ctrs with skill and size draft develop and when needed use to buy the holes you need filled via trades

 

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That isn't proof at all. Those dmen are meh.

Hampus Lindholm was traded in his last year for a 1st, 2-2nds and 2 prospects. So for more than Elias Lindolm.

You're dreaming if you think Conroy has acquired bonafide top 4 D prospects via trade. He hasn't. Our D prospect pool is pretty much a trainwreck.

 

Basically, Conroy has added depth D to our prospect pool.  But the high end top pair D are still missing and those are not easily acquired from trade.  You have to draft them or you won't have any.

 

Dickinson and Buium would have top pair potential and could be available at 9.  Prioritize that. Personally, I'm not too high on Silayev but I understand the potential there.  I wouldn't be sad if he was our 9th pick.

 

The only player I would be sad we took is Eiserman.

[cberg]

25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Basically, Conroy has added depth D to our prospect pool.  But the high end top pair D are still missing and those are not easily acquired from trade.  You have to draft them or you won't have any.

 

Dickinson and Buium would have top pair potential and could be available at 9.  Prioritize that. Personally, I'm not too high on Silayev but I understand the potential there.  I wouldn't be sad if he was our 9th pick.

 

The only player I would be sad we took is Eiserman.

Disagree on the D, final results remain to be seen.

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

That is the lowest I've seen Fischer on any list at 86. I entirely disagree with a rash of dmen ahead of him.

He'd be a quality pick at 62, but he could be gone by then. It'll be close. On the other hand, 74th would be fantastic. I just can't see it. Too much growth potential and he has the size, skating and tools to be a top 4.

I think the trend here is being on terrible teams affects your ranking. Never fails.

[MP5029]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That isn't proof at all. Those dmen are meh.

Hampus Lindholm was traded in his last year for a 1st, 2-2nds and 2 prospects. So for more than Elias Lindolm.

You're dreaming if you think Conroy has acquired bonafide top 4 D prospects via trade. He hasn't. Our D prospect pool is pretty much a trainwreck.

I disagree, just cause they are all young and unproven but so too are many of you young forwards.

 

 not saying ignore it, and in H. Lindholm was traded in a year that was better than this year.  I figured this year was like always for Cgy bad timing give UFA this year is far better than last year’s.  I don’t think H. Lindholm would have fetched as much as Hanifin this year.  But E. Lindholm fetched quite a bit even with a down TDL year, and a down season in terms of his play.

 

Ctrs, especially RS with some

speed and skill always fetch a good return and development much faster than D (all be it slower than W) but they are most definitely the better draft choice unless your drafting a super star W like Ovi or something, your Ctrs will get you a solid return every time without fail unless they are simply not NHL material then no, but that goes for D, G and W.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I disagree, just cause they are all young and unproven but so too are many of you young forwards.

 

 not saying ignore it, and in H. Lindholm was traded in a year that was better than this year.  I figured this year was like always for Cgy bad timing give UFA this year is far better than last year’s.  I don’t think H. Lindholm would have fetched as much as Hanifin this year.  But E. Lindholm fetched quite a bit even with a down TDL year, and a down season in terms of his play.

 

Ctrs, especially RS with some

speed and skill always fetch a good return and development much faster than D (all be it slower than W) but they are most definitely the better draft choice unless your drafting a super star W like Ovi or something, your Ctrs will get you a solid return every time without fail unless they are simply not NHL material then no, but that goes for D, G and W.

Hampus Lindholm is better than Hanifin. Tiggy wanting to be a center hardly makes him a center.

Or is it Helenius or Catton you want? Centers, not wannabe centers. Guys that haven't been moved to wing because they are good centers.

[cross16]

13 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don't think so. Personally, I'd rather keep the 2nd's or 3rd's it would take to move at. Extra chances at finding a player.

 

I think they'll explore moving up though.

 

I agree. While there is a drop off i don't think it's large enough to give up the extra lottery ticket mentality. The flames need as many swings at the plate as they can with what they are planning. 

 

I'd move down before I moved up. 

[Kulstad]

42 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Hampus Lindholm is better than Hanifin. Tiggy wanting to be a center hardly makes him a center.

Or is it Helenius or Catton you want? Centers, not wannabe centers. Guys that haven't been moved to wing because they are good centers.

on a huuuugggge tangent, I think we just found Tij Iginla's new nickname, regardless where he ends up 😁

[cross16]

Only thing I'll add to the D vs Center discussion is you can discuss the position value all you want but you also have to consider the strength of the draft and the value at the spot. 

 

I'm in favor of taking D in this draft because I think the way the board is looking that will be the better value at the spot. IMO a number 1 center is the most critical position in hockey but you are not getting one of those at 9 in this draft. Might get a number 1 D though. 

 

Argument on both side as to what is better positional value, but IMO you have to relate that back to the quality of the draft. 

 

Also agree it's important to not overrate what conroy has picked up. He's acquired quantity sure, but the quality isn't all that high. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Only thing I'll add to the D vs Center discussion is you can discuss the position value all you want but you also have to consider the strength of the draft and the value at the spot. 

 

I'm in favor of taking D in this draft because I think the way the board is looking that will be the better value at the spot. IMO a number 1 center is the most critical position in hockey but you are not getting one of those at 9 in this draft. Might get a number 1 D though. 

 

Argument on both side as to what is better positional value, but IMO you have to relate that back to the quality of the draft. 

 

Also agree it's important to not overrate what conroy has picked up. He's acquired quantity sure, but the quality isn't all that high. 

 

In regards to the strength of draft, are we not anticipating another chance at top 10 next year?  If we thinking we are picking top 5, and there are small/skilled LHS C... Maybe pass on Catton this year?  Take Dickinson or Silayev.

 

Next year,

James Hagen 5'-10" 160 lbs

Ivan Ryabkin 6'-0" 170 lbs

 

There are also three RD ranked in top 10 next year.  

 

[cross16]

24 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

In regards to the strength of draft, are we not anticipating another chance at top 10 next year?  If we thinking we are picking top 5, and there are small/skilled LHS C... Maybe pass on Catton this year?  Take Dickinson or Silayev.

 

Next year,

James Hagen 5'-10" 160 lbs

Ivan Ryabkin 6'-0" 170 lbs

 

There are also three RD ranked in top 10 next year.  

 

 

 

This is incredibly flawed decision making IMO. Way too many factors outside your control. 

[sak22]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

In regards to the strength of draft, are we not anticipating another chance at top 10 next year?  If we thinking we are picking top 5, and there are small/skilled LHS C... Maybe pass on Catton this year?  Take Dickinson or Silayev.

 

Next year,

James Hagen 5'-10" 160 lbs

Ivan Ryabkin 6'-0" 170 lbs

 

There are also three RD ranked in top 10 next year.  

 

Can’t really operate based on early projections, take the player you like best now.  What were projections last year for this year?  Sure no change at #1, but Eiserman was largely projected to be a top 5 pick and is now not even top 10.  Iginla was a 2nd rounder, etc.  Can’t look too far ahead.  Some will rise and others will fall, nobody next year should influence this year’s decisions.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, Kulstad said:

on a huuuugggge tangent, I think we just found Tij Iginla's new nickname, regardless where he ends up 😁

Dude, I've had to listen to Oilers tangents for weeks. I need to unwind.

I liked what Yzerman had to say in his presser. To the effect of, draft bpa. If there are 2 or 3 guys in the mix at that pick, draft for needs in your prospect pool.

Another great presser from him and questions from the media-heads. We get Conroy on frigging fart-burner.

Not quite pointless, but not far off. You don't know the capacity of tangents I keep to my inside voice. lol