2023/24 Roster/Lines

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Your suggestion with Govich is fine, but who is the other winger?  Rosie has been one of the few consistent players and you want him on the 4th line?  Hunt and Greer the only other names we have right now.

Hence the, "when's Pelletier back"?

He's a big part of this puzzle, can't wait to see him. He's a good player.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

When's Pelletier back? JFC this roster. Thanks BT. So effing fragmented and buried in contracts.

No wonder he ran away from his mess. I don't give a Satoshi Nakamoto what his M.O. was, does he not have a spine? It's your team man, "just following orders" means that you don't have a spine. Accountability is on him, but he ran away.

See I think this whole M.O thing gets blown way out of proportion.  I don't think he was forced to go out and sign Kadri, I don't think he was Mr. Rebuild that people make him out to be, think anyone who's been on the same job for close to a decade wants to win now, he did his best with a bad hand and it just didn't work.  Kadri was a player he'd been interested in for a while so went after him, but I think we need to stop passing the buck for the bad contracts to BT, or ownership, the players need to own up and play better.  I don't buy into any age related decline, Kadri is lacking the intensity that always drives the opposing fans nuts, has any fanbase hated Kadri since he became a Flame besides the Flames fanbase.  But probably an unpopular opinion I haven't hated Huberdeau so far this year, and think he is trending a little more into what we expected.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Hence the, "when's Pelletier back"?

He's a big part of this puzzle, can't wait to see him. He's a good player.

 

You were talking about the now first off.  I didn't get the sense you knew where to fit Pelts in.

Which is fine, you have to find the right spot.

He's a passer more than Huberdeau.

SO, can't really play him with Huberdeau.

Kadri is a better passer than shoot, so stop just feeding him.

When Dube and Rosie were playing catch and they used the D, they scored.

Rosie scoring the way Dube can.

Lindholm can do that exact play too.

Dube scoring the way many many players should.

Where is Kadri if he's not 2 feet from the net.

Everywhere else that doesn't help.

Let him be a bumper on the PP and Little Joe tips into the net.

 

 

[travel_dude]

Vladar confirmed to be the starter against BUFF.

It's a B2B, so it makes a tone of sense.

This tended to be the opposite of what was done last year, where they went start then backup in B2B games.

[robrob74]

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/nhl-prospect-roundup-calgary-flames-connor-zary-is-electrifying-the-ahl
 

let's bring him up! We need some extra help!

[cross16]

28 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/nhl-prospect-roundup-calgary-flames-connor-zary-is-electrifying-the-ahl
 

let's bring him up! We need some extra help!

 

 

It's still early but i'm already asking how much longer the Flames can spin their wheels before they try something new. Not jus Zary but Wolf too. How much longer can you watch Vladar play below average and keep Wolf down there. 

 

Especially when Conroy has preached youth from day 1. It will get louder the longer the Flames spin their wheels. 

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

It's still early but i'm already asking how much longer the Flames can spin their wheels before they try something new. Not jus Zary but Wolf too. How much longer can you watch Vladar play below average and keep Wolf down there. 

 

Especially when Conroy has preached youth from day 1. It will get louder the longer the Flames spin their wheels. 

 

Like all Hockey players and teams, the Flames and their players are really good at telling fans what they want to hear. 

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

It's still early but i'm already asking how much longer the Flames can spin their wheels before they try something new. Not jus Zary but Wolf too. How much longer can you watch Vladar play below average and keep Wolf down there. 

 

Especially when Conroy has preached youth from day 1. It will get louder the longer the Flames spin their wheels. 

 

Zary solves one issue of forcing Govich into the C role.  I think he could do well to play on a different line as a winger.  Would involve moving Greer out and Colemen to 4th line.  Only suggesting Coleman because he is defensively responsible and could be good to help the kid get used to it.  For weak side draws, Coleman could also take draws.

 

I suppose a line of Govich-Zary-Duehr could also work.  Not a lot of vet presence but could be good to build a line.

 

Wolf is winning games (undefeated in 3), but his GAA is not so good, mostly sunk by one game.  6 GA against Abby.  Would like him to get some games but want to see his play stabilize a bit first.

[JTech780]

I was just checking out the new NHL Edge player tracking stats, it is pretty interesting. A lot of talk has been on the speed of the team so I made a list of the top speed for each Flames player so far this season.

 

Forwards (NHL average top speed is 21.31mph):

Duehr              22.03

Kadri                22.01

Coleman          21.82

Mangiapane    21.66

Coronato         21.61

Lindholm         21.20

Greer               20.83

Sharangovich 20.78

Dube               20.76

Ruzicka           20.58

Backlund         20.53

Huberdeau      20.34

 

Defense (NHL average top speed is 20.72):

Zadorov           22.54

Weegar            21.74

Tanev               21.03

Hanifin             21.02

Gilbert             20.66

Andersson       20.58

Oesterle           20.30

 

Zadorov clocking the fastest top speed on the Flames this year is surprising. Dube being below average is surprising, but also lines up with his rough start. The fact that only 5 forwardds have posted above average speeds sums up this teams troubles last year and to start this year.

 

[travel_dude]

49 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Zadorov clocking the fastest top speed on the Flames this year is surprising. Dube being below average is surprising, but also lines up with his rough start. The fact that only 5 forwardds have posted above average speeds sums up this teams troubles last year and to start this year.

 

 

Interesting numbers no doubt, but I would hazard to suggest that we don't see much break out speed attempts.  By that I mean if we are not generating any speed coming out of the zone, then what we are seeing is a combination of dump and chase speed and PP entry tries, if you get what I am saying.

 

Huberdeau's speed doesn't surprise me because he rarely moves with speed on the rush.  He's constantly being checked as the passer, so teams know they just need to take his time and space away.

 

Perhaps I am misreading the info, but what I have seen is how this has played out.

[420since1974]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Zary solves one issue of forcing Govich into the C role.  I think he could do well to play on a different line as a winger. 

I agree, Sharangovich can play centre, his defensive awareness is very good, but has yet to post decent FO% stats in the NHL.

Right now, he is more effective at RW or LW.

I sure like his shot though.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, 420since1974 said:

I agree, Sharangovich can play centre, his defensive awareness is very good, but has yet to post decent FO% stats in the NHL.

Right now, he is more effective at RW or LW.

I sure like his shot though.

 

I think there is still a tendency for our identity to be a tough team.

Zadorov, Kadri, Weegar, Greer, Coleman love to hit.

But I also think that identify should be secondary.

You can be fast and tough.

Or defensively smart and tough.

Or drive the net and tough.

Or scoring threat and tough.

 

We seem to have no other thing that defines us right now.

I won't make too much of it with one home game played so far.

We won the opener because we were able to score.

Best that we make the barn a tough stop for teams on the road.

[JTech780]

I am really liking the info available with the player tracking data on the NHL Edge site, though I am not a fan of how the website displays the data.

 

One thing I found interesting is that we are 2nd in the league for shots with 202 and 3rd in the league foe percentage of time spent in the offensive zone at 43.7%, but we are well behind the pace when it comes to high danger shots. The site doesn't show a list of every team just the top 10 in each category, Nashville is 1st with 63, Tampa is 10th with 46, Calgary has 38. That tells me that we are doing lots things well, but we are settling for perimeter shots too often or aren't driving the net and looking for rebounds. They need to play in the middle of the ice more.

[conundrumed]

26 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

we are 2nd in the league for shots with 202 and 3rd in the league foe percentage of time spent in the offensive zone at 43.7%, but we are well behind the pace when it comes to high danger shots.

We're always this way. Our shooting% is way down because most shots are nothingburgers.

26 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

we are settling for perimeter shots too often or aren't driving the net and looking for rebounds.

Yup. We're not moving the puck anywhere close to as fast as most teams also. It's going to be a loooong and painful season if they don't get that figured out. Need fast exits, pace through the neutral zone and puck moving in the O-zone. We need to get moving!!

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

We're always this way. Our shooting% is way down because most shots are nothingburgers.

Yup. We're not moving the puck anywhere close to as fast as most teams also. It's going to be a loooong and painful season if they don't get that figured out. Need fast exits, pace through the neutral zone and puck moving in the O-zone. We need to get moving!!

 

We should be tracking how long players hold the puck. I think having the puck for having the puck-sake isn't the way to play hockey for puck-sake. It's one thing if you're defending a lead, but it's another to attack the net. I don't think the Flames have been able to attack the net with good consistency. When they do it's a wow moment for some of us fans, like we finally get to take a breath after holding it for however long... 

 

But it's true. You are right, they need to find ways to move the puck quicker, move it around to get D moving. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

We should be tracking how long players hold the puck. I think having the puck for having the puck-sake isn't the way to play hockey for puck-sake. It's one thing if you're defending a lead, but it's another to attack the net. I don't think the Flames have been able to attack the net with good consistency. When they do it's a wow moment for some of us fans, like we finally get to take a breath after holding it for however long... 

 

But it's true. You are right, they need to find ways to move the puck quicker, move it around to get D moving. 

 

I could care less about length of time holding the puck.  McD and Drai do it all the time, so it's not a measure of success or failure.  Gaudreau is a beast.  It's player specific.  What they do with it is more important, like successful passes, zone entry success, etc.  Giveaways and takeaways are more important to me.  Speed and creativity on the PP.  Maybe that's what you meant.

[conundrumed]

It looks like everything is solved!!

 

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It looks like everything is solved!!

 

 

Interesting.  Like that top line, if Rosie can shoot more.  He has an excellent pass, but Lindy's first pass would be LW.  I can see Dube getting more shots if he creeps into the middle.

 

The Huberdeau line is a study in frustration.  Almost like try it enough times and it will work out.  To me Huberdeau needs to pass less and shoot more.  Kadri can pass to Coronato.  He's the best shooter on that line (so far anyway).

 

Hunt to the sidelines, which probably makes the most sense.  Don't get the love for him based on one pre-season game that was good.  Maybe put a RHS at C?  Somebody like Zary?  Greer is fine, but he seems to be about the level of Lucic for scoring.  Can't we expect better?

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Interesting.  Like that top line, if Rosie can shoot more.  He has an excellent pass, but Lindy's first pass would be LW.  I can see Dube getting more shots if he creeps into the middle.

 

The Huberdeau line is a study in frustration.  Almost like try it enough times and it will work out.  To me Huberdeau needs to pass less and shoot more.  Kadri can pass to Coronato.  He's the best shooter on that line (so far anyway).

 

Hunt to the sidelines, which probably makes the most sense.  Don't get the love for him based on one pre-season game that was good.  Maybe put a RHS at C?  Somebody like Zary?  Greer is fine, but he seems to be about the level of Lucic for scoring.  Can't we expect better?

I don't care for the lines much. If we lose Sunday, he'll change them again. It's what we do.

1. Don't come out of camp ready.

2. Keep changing everything or not based on last game results.

3. Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman stay together because something something consistency.

 

Aaaand Van just destroyed St. Loo with their starting goalie. "but..but..St. Loo was tired". whatevs...

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't care for the lines much. If we lose Sunday, he'll change them again. It's what we do.

1. Don't come out of camp ready.

2. Keep changing everything or not based on last game results.

3. Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman stay together because something something consistency.

 

Aaaand Van just destroyed St. Loo with their starting goalie. "but..but..St. Loo was tired". whatevs...

 

We seem to use camp as a way of trying out yong players in spots they will never get into.  Schwindt kept longer than Zary.  Belief that Rooney was somehow going to be better than his mediocre AHL results would suggest.  Solo kept longer but had to wait for a suspension to get in.  Coronato played good with whome in the pre-season?  Don't think it was Huberdeau or 4th line.  

 

Some of the line choices so far were just weird.  Kadri on RW?  Seriously?  It took Gaudreau to turn Tkachuk into a RW'er and really Tkachuk was just a 10 foot scorer, so it didn't matter.  I don't know how to fix Huberdeau, but let's worry about the other players more so.  What has looked the best?  Maybe Huberdeau on Backlund's wing to help with his horrid turnovers?  Rosie and Dube together was a thing, but I don't think the C matters.  Lindholm needs a player that can gain the zone with eaze.  Maybe that's Rosie, don't know since nothing else really worked.  

 

Backlund is always a slow starter, so I can't judge the line as such.  HE has zero goals.  Mange is leading in scoring I believe.  My biggest problem with Mange is he plays big but can't stand up to the heat.  He probably has to change his pants and jersey because they are soaking wet after all the snow he soaks up laying on the ice.  I would almost consider Mange on the 4th line RW and move Govich up to RW with Backlund and Coleman.  Assuming we had a C to play there, I don't know, maybe ZARY?  

[JTech780]

Zary with a goal today, is now up to 9 points in 5 games with the Wranglers. This is the year where he is going to force the Flames’ hand and get him some games with the big club.

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Zary with a goal today, is now up to 9 points in 5 games with the Wranglers. This is the year where he is going to force the Flames’ hand and get him some games with the big club.

 

Considering how cold some players are to start the season, why not get a guy up to push them for better.  Right now, the best players are the youngest ones.  Over 30 crowd not moving the needle much.

[travel_dude]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:23 PM, conundrumed said:

It looks like everything is solved!!

 

 

 

What a difference a day make....

 

#Flames lines/pairings Saturday in Edmonton:

 

Hunt–Lindholm–Dube
Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman
Huberdeau-Kadri-Coronato
Greer-Sharangovich-Duehr
Ruzicka
 
Hanifin-Weegar
Solovyov-Tanev 
Zadorov-Gilbert
Oesterle-Andersson

 

Markstrom
Vladar

[conundrumed]

It's about time Hunt got a look on the top line. Now replace him with Rozie.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It's about time Hunt got a look on the top line. Now replace him with Rozie.

 

Next up Greer.  If we had extra D that we could trust, I would slot in Zadorov as a F.  Who would be stopping him?