2023 Offseason

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

the fact that we are talking about Lindholm as our most critical remaining piece really tells you all you need to know about where we are at now.

different situations, but if it was a woman trying to decide whether to date me or not, or to go work in a different city, I'd be like, bye. I'd hope they'd want me to come with, but, this isn't what is possible in this situation. 
 

For me, Lindholm is nearly out the door. Mostly. It is just a matter of time now.

 

I get he wants to know what the team will be like. But there has been no team moves to warrant a decision from him outside of losing Lucic and Lewis, and a trade off of Osterle for Stone. Is Sharangovich a big enough move to sway him? It is a trade off from a guy he helped have a career year with, for someone who had one decent year.

 

There's no way he decides until game 20 or 30 depending on where they're at in the standings.... Has the team done enough to help his decision? They could be worse than last year.
 

[cross16]

I have no idea if the Flames were interested in Zadina or not. However, until the flames roster plan starts coming to fruition it's going to be awfully difficult to attract free agents. Why would Zadina considering signing here if he's not sure who is above him on the depth chart?

 

He was looking for an opportunity and it would have been really hard to sell him on one here 

[travel_dude]

 

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

different situations, but if it was a woman trying to decide whether to date me or not, or to go work in a different city, I'd be like, bye. I'd hope they'd want me to come with, but, this isn't what is possible in this situation. 
 

For me, Lindholm is nearly out the door. Mostly. It is just a matter of time now.

 

I get he wants to know what the team will be like. But there has been no team moves to warrant a decision from him outside of losing Lucic and Lewis, and a trade off of Osterle for Stone. Is Sharangovich a big enough move to sway him? It is a trade off from a guy he helped have a career year with, for someone who had one decent year.

 

There's no way he decides until game 20 or 30 depending on where they're at in the standings.... Has the team done enough to help his decision? They could be worse than last year.
 

 

I think it's safe to say that the older players on the team are wondering what we are doing.  Signing long term has a cost to it.  You may still be able to get traded down the road, but maybe not where you want to go.  You also want to know that you are part of an organization that wants to win the cup, not just re-tool every year.  BT's leaving sent a message to the players that the team was going in a slightly different direction, and nobody is sure what that is.  Hiring the A/coach to replace Sutter also sends a message; some thing will not change.   

 

Lindholm is looking at dominos.  If Hanifin and Backlund are traded for picks, then it's known that we are re-tooling to some end.  If they are traded for young-ish players on the rise or already there, then we know the direction a bit better.  I believe that Hanifin and Backlund are the lynchpin to moving forward with Lindholm.

 

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

I think it's safe to say that the older players on the team are wondering what we are doing.  Signing long term has a cost to it.  You may still be able to get traded down the road, but maybe not where you want to go.  You also want to know that you are part of an organization that wants to win the cup, not just re-tool every year.  BT's leaving sent a message to the players that the team was going in a slightly different direction, and nobody is sure what that is.  Hiring the A/coach to replace Sutter also sends a message; some thing will not change.   

 

Lindholm is looking at dominos.  If Hanifin and Backlund are traded for picks, then it's known that we are re-tooling to some end.  If they are traded for young-ish players on the rise or already there, then we know the direction a bit better.  I believe that Hanifin and Backlund are the lynchpin to moving forward with Lindholm.

 

and I get that, but they're not necessarily going to get dealt until The TDL if prices remain where they're at. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

and I get that, but they're not necessarily going to get dealt until The TDL if prices remain where they're at. 

 

TDL is an extreme worst case scenario.  I think it's a given that both Hanifin and Backlund are getting dealt.  Holding off trading them just puts the team in limbo.  Can't get reads on some players due to depth chart, can't improve, can't make changes due to cap, can't get anything for them if injured.

 

We started by trading Toffoli, a top scoring F, for a lesser scoring player and a draft pick we originally gave away.  If we managed to trade Hanifin for a top 6 F and Backlund for a depth D + pick, then that shows we are committed to the top end.  When we had Chucky and Johnny, we never did anything to improve the top end, other than a last ditch effort to bring in Toffoli.  Only after we were losing JH and Chucky did we attempt to bring in a top 6 C and a top 6 winger.  

 

If the rumors are true that it's Hanifin for Nylander (or some other top 6'er) make it happen and finish the roster.  Sign or deal Lindholm but pick a direction.  There's useful players available as UFA's, but only if you know what you need and the players know what the direction is.

[sak22]

31 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

different situations, but if it was a woman trying to decide whether to date me or not, or to go work in a different city, I'd be like, bye. I'd hope they'd want me to come with, but, this isn't what is possible in this situation. 
 

For me, Lindholm is nearly out the door. Mostly. It is just a matter of time now.

 

I get he wants to know what the team will be like. But there has been no team moves to warrant a decision from him outside of losing Lucic and Lewis, and a trade off of Osterle for Stone. Is Sharangovich a big enough move to sway him? It is a trade off from a guy he helped have a career year with, for someone who had one decent year.

 

There's no way he decides until game 20 or 30 depending on where they're at in the standings.... Has the team done enough to help his decision? They could be worse than last year.
 

Keep in mind nobody has really signed extensions yet, Matthews, Nylander, Aho.  Next years shaping up to be a better free agent class with a cap expected to get its biggest rise since 2019.  I don't take it personal as much as it is business, he had his worst goal output since he's been a Flame so I can see why he might want to bet on himself, he saw what it did for Johnny.  

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

different situations, but if it was a woman trying to decide whether to date me or not, or to go work in a different city, I'd be like, bye. I'd hope they'd want me to come with, but, this isn't what is possible in this situation. 
 

For me, Lindholm is nearly out the door. Mostly. It is just a matter of time now.

 

I get he wants to know what the team will be like. But there has been no team moves to warrant a decision from him outside of losing Lucic and Lewis, and a trade off of Osterle for Stone. Is Sharangovich a big enough move to sway him? It is a trade off from a guy he helped have a career year with, for someone who had one decent year.

 

There's no way he decides until game 20 or 30 depending on where they're at in the standings.... Has the team done enough to help his decision? They could be worse than last year.
 

 

Yups.     We don't use relationship analogies enough here lol.

 

I look at it like this:

 

If Lindholm is our best player, then we are in a rebuild.

 

Him staying or going won't change that.  I'm much more interested in where Coronato and Honzek and Wolf will play this year.  Not that I don't care, but, we don't have anyone left that can really change our outcome one way or another.

[The_People1]

28 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Keep in mind nobody has really signed extensions yet, Matthews, Nylander, Aho.  Next years shaping up to be a better free agent class with a cap expected to get its biggest rise since 2019.  I don't take it personal as much as it is business, he had his worst goal output since he's been a Flame so I can see why he might want to bet on himself, he saw what it did for Johnny.  

 

Agreed, Lindholm needs to look out for Lindholm first and foremost.  It only benefits him to play out a career year and then hit UFA with the cap rising.  There's no rush to answer the Flames extension offers.

 

So knowing this, what should the Flames do?  Be passive?  Or take control of own destiny and trade him?

[cross16]

I know the impression is they are just waiting/sitting on their hands for whatever Lindholm decides and I'm not sure that is the case. I think that's the public stance but I'm betting behind the scenes they have a deadline of when they want to/need to hear back and I'm also betting they have a good understanding of what teams are interested and what teams are willing to pay for Lindholm. If he informed them today he wasn't going to re-sign I doubt very much it would take long to figure out trades. 

 

I think the vast majority of what clubs say publicly is PR spin but I think it is especially true of the Flames right now. There not going to come out and say there is a deadline, they aren't coming to come out and say he isn't welcome in camp etc as none of that does them any good. The only reason to talk about deadlines etc is to try a placate the impatient section of your fan base. 

 

It is a big decision with lots of variables at play and if he is afforded time why woudln't he take it?

[conundrumed]

I'm a little sad Sundqvist signed a 1yr/$750,000 back to St. Loo. I was thinking he'd make a nice RS 4C.

[The_People1]

On 7/11/2023 at 12:03 PM, cross16 said:

I know the impression is they are just waiting/sitting on their hands for whatever Lindholm decides and I'm not sure that is the case. I think that's the public stance but I'm betting behind the scenes they have a deadline of when they want to/need to hear back and I'm also betting they have a good understanding of what teams are interested and what teams are willing to pay for Lindholm. If he informed them today he wasn't going to re-sign I doubt very much it would take long to figure out trades. 

 

I think the vast majority of what clubs say publicly is PR spin but I think it is especially true of the Flames right now. There not going to come out and say there is a deadline, they aren't coming to come out and say he isn't welcome in camp etc as none of that does them any good. The only reason to talk about deadlines etc is to try a placate the impatient section of your fan base. 

 

It is a big decision with lots of variables at play and if he is afforded time why woudln't he take it?

 

I know the team hasn't made official deadlines but if Conroy said he doesn't want to do the Gaudreau situation again, then it's kind of implied Lindholm and Hanifin are either extended by training camp or traded.  I know it's possible to extend or trade them during the season but what a distraction that would be for this team.

 

So all said, the deadline is set at either training camp or game 1 of the regular season.  Wouldn't you agree?

[robrob74]

56 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm a little sad Sundqvist signed a 1yr/$750,000 back to St. Loo. I was thinking he'd make a nice RS 4C.

he was a guy I wanted a few years ago and would have been happy to have in Calgary. I get that we want space for the rooks though. 

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know the team hasn't made official deadlines but if Conroy said he doesn't want to do the Gaudreau situation again, then it's kind of implied Lindholm and Hanifin are either extended by training camp or traded.  I know it's possible to extend or trade them during the season but what a distraction that would be for this team.

 

So all said, the deadline is set at either training camp or game 1 of the regular season.  Wouldn't you agree?

 

Man oh man...I hope a distraction like that wouldn't lead to higher draft picks for us, that would be aweful.

 

I mean...the whole expiring contract situation isn't new for us, been like that pretty much most years with BT and he'd typically end up empty-handed.   Conroy's already got Toffoli done, and lots of time still.

 

That said, your proposed deadlines are reasonable.   With the caveat that catastrophies are also acceptable as long as we don't lose draft picks over it.

[cross16]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know the team hasn't made official deadlines but if Conroy said he doesn't want to do the Gaudreau situation again, then it's kind of implied Lindholm and Hanifin are either extended by training camp or traded.  I know it's possible to extend or trade them during the season but what a distraction that would be for this team.

 

So all said, the deadline is set at either training camp or game 1 of the regular season.  Wouldn't you agree?

 

It be earlier than that for me but I obviously can't speak for the Flames. 

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

he was a guy I wanted a few years ago and would have been happy to have in Calgary. I get that we want space for the rooks though. 

He had a pretty good wage for a bottom 6 player, but that's a really solid, responsible player at league min. My guess is that St. Louis is home for him. I know a lot of players hated to see him go when he was traded to Detroit as part of the Leddy deal. Minny got him for a 4th at tdl, which may or may not have given us a little nudge into the playoffs. But how can you go wrong with Nick Ritchie and an 8 dman?*spit

Now I want Pius Suter at 4C/wing rover if he's nearly as cheap. Gotta replace Lucic/Lewis with at least a bit of scoring touch. He's a solid role player with speed and solid D awareness while still having good hands. We need to work on depth because if the reliance is on prospects and goes sour after 20 games, we're going to be toast.

Rosie is my biggest question mark. Can...he...be...consistent? This is his last chance to prove it.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

He had a pretty good wage for a bottom 6 player, but that's a really solid, responsible player at league min. My guess is that St. Louis is home for him. I know a lot of players hated to see him go when he was traded to Detroit as part of the Leddy deal. Minny got him for a 4th at tdl, which may or may not have given us a little nudge into the playoffs. But how can you go wrong with Nick Ritchie and an 8 dman?*spit

Now I want Pius Suter at 4C/wing rover if he's nearly as cheap. Gotta replace Lucic/Lewis with at least a bit of scoring touch. He's a solid role player with speed and solid D awareness while still having good hands. We need to work on depth because if the reliance is on prospects and goes sour after 20 games, we're going to be toast.

Rosie is my biggest question mark. Can...he...be...consistent? This is his last chance to prove it.

 

It would be interesting to see if he is used in a consistent role.  He deserved some criticism for tailing off after his great start, mind you he was dropped from top line to 4th line.  

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

He had a pretty good wage for a bottom 6 player, but that's a really solid, responsible player at league min. My guess is that St. Louis is home for him. I know a lot of players hated to see him go when he was traded to Detroit as part of the Leddy deal. Minny got him for a 4th at tdl, which may or may not have given us a little nudge into the playoffs. But how can you go wrong with Nick Ritchie and an 8 dman?*spit

Now I want Pius Suter at 4C/wing rover if he's nearly as cheap. Gotta replace Lucic/Lewis with at least a bit of scoring touch. He's a solid role player with speed and solid D awareness while still having good hands. We need to work on depth because if the reliance is on prospects and goes sour after 20 games, we're going to be toast.

Rosie is my biggest question mark. Can...he...be...consistent? This is his last chance to prove it.

 

Yup, I mentioned Suter last week sometime. I say go for it! If we are trading Backlund we need the C depth anyway.

[robrob74]

I think Lindholm wants to bet on himself and play out the year and hope for an extra half mil to 1.5 mil when the cap goes up on top of what we offered. Maybe he believes he is more like a 9.5 or 10 guy, like Huberdeau.

 

this is a one and done scenario letting Lindholm play out his contract. The trade off would be having his 8.75-9.5 mill in Cap when he leaves. Maybe we can sign a UFA next summer...
 

Let's Trade Noah. If we can deal him with no money coming back, then  we can sign Tarasenko to a 1yr deal and go for it. So a Hanifin deal would basically be for picks and prospects and if need be a guy who is low. This means we can deal to an American team like Chicago.

 

Trade Mangiapane for Pesce...

 

a going for it, one year and then going rebuild after since we can't keep anyone. Go for a deep run. Not saying this is good enough, but maybe there's another depth signing like Pius Suter to round out the roster....

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Tarasenko

Dube, Kadri, Coronato

Pelletier, Backlund, Sharangovich

Coleman, Zary, Duehr

Suter

Weegar, Andersson

Kylington, Pesce

Osterle, Zadorov

 

guys can be moved around...

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think Lindholm wants to bet on himself amd play out the year and hope for an extra half mil to 1.5 mil when the cap goes up. 
 

Let's Trade Noah. If we can deal him with no money coming back, then  we can sign Tarasenko to a 1yr deal and go for it. 

 

Trade Mangiapane for Pesce...

 

a going for it, one year and then going rebuild after since we can't keep anyone. Go for a deep run. Not saying this is good enough, but maybe there's another depth signing like Pius Suter to round out the roster....

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Tarasenko

Dube, Kadri, Coronato

Pelletier, Backlund, Sharangovich

Coleman, Zary, Duehr

Weegar, Andersson

Kylington, Pesce

Osterle, Zadorov

 

 

Who did you get back in trading Tanev?

Why is Zary in over Ruzicka?  Hasn't pla6yed a NHL game yet.

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Who did you get back in trading Tanev?

Why is Zary in over Ruzicka?  Hasn't pla6yed a NHL game yet.

Oh yeah, was thinking Tanev in the Canes deal. And Ruzicka, those will be camp decisions, too fluid to tell. It depends on Zary's development. You could even say maybe Schwindt got some juice from ending the year on the top line on the Wranglers. I think those spots are too fluid to determine until Camp.

[robrob74]

I guess I'm torn on Ruzicka. He will be there somewhere, I too want to see some urgency out of him.

[travel_dude]

Just now, robrob74 said:

Oh yeah, was thinking Tanev in the Canes deal. And Ruzicka, those will be camp decisions, too fluid to tell. It depends on Zary's development. You could even say maybe Schwindt got some juice from ending the year on the top line on the Wranglers. I think those spots are too fluid to determine until Camp.

 

Well, if we aren't playing Ruzie, he's gone on waivers.

[robrob74]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Well, if we aren't playing Ruzie, he's gone on waivers.

he can be on the roster. There are spare spots, I'm betting he goes on waivers or traded for a 3rd rounder.

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, if we aren't playing Ruzie, he's gone on waivers.

or maybe we keep Tanev and he's a 3rd pair in this scenario?

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Tarasenko

Dube, Kadri, Coranato

Pelletier, Backlund, Shargovich

Coleman, Ruzicka/Zary, Duehr
Suter

 

Weegar, Andersson

Zadorov, Pesce

Kylington, Tanev

Osterle

 

 

[tmac70]

13 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

It be earlier than that for me but I obviously can't speak for the Flames. 

I have to agree, there is no reason to get to camp with guys that are not going to be part of the club. Once it gets to that point I your trending into very dangerous waters