2023 Offseason

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

 

It would be an interesting swap. Hanifin is proven and still young , Lafrenier is still finding his way in the NHL. 
 

Huberdeau -Lafranier-Pelletier 

Kadri-Lindholm-Mangiapane

 

It could be a start…I think we get a better player back than Lafrenier for Hanifin tbh. 

 

Been months since I’ve posted on here…the team is even more of a mess than when I left! Happy Summer and Canada Day (belated) to everyone. Looks like our Flames need some work! 
 

 

 

 

This is what I have been saying…only move Kadri to RW and keep Manji on LW but this idea…

 

also I think they are looking at the new guys from NJD with Hubby and Lindy but otherwise that’s what I was kinda thinking of…

[jjgallow]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

There was zero market for Phillips in trade.

 

Maybe not.   I kind of feel like there was when he was younger.   He hit a point per game pretty early in the ahl. 2020?

 

If the Flames didn't seriously see him advancing to the NHL then, and they shouldn't have if they were holding onto Gaudreau and Mangiapane, that would have been a good time.

 

I mean there were a lot of ways to slice it.  We held onto more smallish skilled LWs than an NHL team looking to compete in the playoffs can hold onto.

 

But anyway.  old news.   Hope he does well.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Sarasti said:

 

This off season is a shot of reality for sure but I think you're overselling the urgency a bit.

May be a tough season but the fact Lindholm isn't signed or traded yet isn't a sky-is-falling scenario.

Knee-jerk reactions almost always make the team worse.

 

my only thing is, if he hasn't made up his mind already, I feel like that is an answer. It's almost like Johnny all over again. Or at least beginning to feel that way

[robrob74]

39 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Maybe not.   I kind of feel like there was when he was younger.   He hit a point per game pretty early in the ahl. 2020?

 

If the Flames didn't seriously see him advancing to the NHL then, and they shouldn't have if they were holding onto Gaudreau and Mangiapane, that would have been a good time.

 

I mean there were a lot of ways to slice it.  We held onto more smallish skilled LWs than an NHL team looking to compete in the playoffs can hold onto.

 

But anyway.  old news.   Hope he does well.

that is asset management. I'd say recoup a pick at least, even if it's a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th rounder, get something? Plus, it might have given him a chance to play somewhere else.

[phoenix66]

41 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

my only thing is, if he hasn't made up his mind already, I feel like that is an answer. It's almost like Johnny all over again. Or at least beginning to feel that way

Fwiw.. I've read more than one report that they're talking..  that's putting his resigning at about 80/20 

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Fwiw.. I've read more than one report that they're talking..  that's putting his resigning at about 80/20 

 

I have been doing my very best cheerleading of Conroy thus far, let's see something happen that doesn't make me put those pom poms down

 

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I have been doing my very best cheerleading of Conroy thus far, let's see something happen that doesn't make me put those pom poms down

 

I can think of a thing or 2... Looks like a certain ex Calgary gm has some salary dumping to do .  I'm sure Conroy can lend him a hand 👌😎

 

 

 

 

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I can think of a thing or 2... Looks like a certain ex Calgary gm has some salary dumping to do .  I'm sure Conroy can lend him a hand 👌😎

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's see a 5-player trade that involves 3 first rounders from Toronto

[tmac70]

 TO is going to have to either move Nylander or trade a few others to open space, One freedom Trevling has is no accountability for spending, it is an open vault.

[tmac70]

If NYR would be open to a Laferiane trade for Hanifin that would be something of interest, They are a little shallow on the D end. Laferiane has not done much, change could be what is needed.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

 TO is going to have to either move Nylander or trade a few others to open space, One freedom Trevling has is no accountability for spending, it is an open vault.

 

Treliving with cap space is the most dangerous thing we have ever seen.  Conroy has learned to avoid his predecessor's fomo.

 

That or no one wants to come here, so.  In any event, I'm happy we didn't sign anyone in UFA (of significance anyways).  Building a team through UFA is the worst way to build a team.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Treliving with cap space is the most dangerous thing we have ever seen.  Conroy has learned to avoid his predecessor's fomo.

 

That or no one wants to come here, so.  In any event, I'm happy we didn't sign anyone in UFA (of significance anyways).  Building a team through UFA is the worst way to build a team.

He did say he would leave spots open for kids to win. Osterle is a smart move considering we don't really have any kids at this time that would make the team. They need at least one more year to season. 
 

Klingberg is probably 1-2 mil over priced? 
for TO, and him, I'd liked to have seen him get a plan. It feels like he just doesn't ever have one. 

[jjgallow]

37 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Treliving with cap space is the most dangerous thing we have ever seen.  Conroy has learned to avoid his predecessor's fomo.

 

That or no one wants to come here, so.  In any event, I'm happy we didn't sign anyone in UFA (of significance anyways).  Building a team through UFA is the worst way to build a team.

 

10000%

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Treliving with cap space is the most dangerous thing we have ever seen.  Conroy has learned to avoid his predecessor's fomo.

 

That or no one wants to come here, so.  In any event, I'm happy we didn't sign anyone in UFA (of significance anyways).  Building a team through UFA is the worst way to build a team.

 

And he doesn't even have cap space to work with.  He has LTIR to work with and now that is gone.  One goalie of note signed and their real guy waiting on an extension.  They don't even have any buyout options.  I suspect that Willie Nee is going soon.  At this point, Willie for Hanifin would be a win for BT.  They will let Samsonov go to arbitration to open the buyout window for Murray.  That's $4M in cap savings this year.  

 

We could then turn around and deal Vladar for Robertson and still they come out ahead.  This almost seems believable that BT would do this.  It's fits his MO.  It gets him out of the cap issues this year by barely enough.  It gets him 2 players that he loves.

 

As far as the CGY side, it creates problems next year.  We are going to need to trade Backlund for scraps as it is or make another move to open cap.  Having Nylander means we should not keep Mangiapane.  

[phoenix66]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And he doesn't even have cap space to work with.  He has LTIR to work with and now that is gone.  One goalie of note signed and their real guy waiting on an extension.  They don't even have any buyout options.  I suspect that Willie Nee is going soon.  At this point, Willie for Hanifin would be a win for BT.  They will let Samsonov go to arbitration to open the buyout window for Murray.  That's $4M in cap savings this year.  

 

We could then turn around and deal Vladar for Robertson and still they come out ahead.  This almost seems believable that BT would do this.  It's fits his MO.  It gets him out of the cap issues this year by barely enough.  It gets him 2 players that he loves.

 

As far as the CGY side, it creates problems next year.  We are going to need to trade Backlund for scraps as it is or make another move to open cap.  Having Nylander means we should not keep Mangiapane.  

Yep. I know he's with the enemy now and he always had his detractors here ..but I give him his due, he was always a master at contracts and the cap(yes he had Snow here and just as good support there . But using your experts is still a skill) 

With expected LTIR he's $2.4m over the cap now . A Hanifin for Nylander trade almost zeros him out on its own ..hadn't even considered the Murray buyout. That's $4m to finish the roster ..

But it's funny to read Toronto fan and media reactions to his moves so far .. they haven't seen anything like him before ..just when you think he's sunk he pulls a rabbit out of his hat . He's perfect for Toronto.  They always believe every player is wanting to come to Toronto.  And BT is always linked to every deal already .. 

 

I certainly wouldn't be avoiding giving him a "win" if we win too 

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Yep. I know he's with the enemy now and he always had his detractors here ..but I give him his due, he was always a master at contracts and the cap(yes he had Snow here and just as good support there . But using your experts is still a skill) 

With expected LTIR he's $2.4m over the cap now . A Hanifin for Nylander trade almost zeros him out on its own ..hadn't even considered the Murray buyout. That's $4m to finish the roster ..

But it's funny to read Toronto fan and media reactions to his moves so far .. they haven't seen anything like him before ..just when you think he's sunk he pulls a rabbit out of his hat . He's perfect for Toronto.  They always believe every player is wanting to come to Toronto.  And BT is always linked to every deal already .. 

 

I certainly wouldn't be avoiding giving him a "win" if we win too 

 

I don't think it's a win for him, in that the fans think Willie is worth 4 first rounders.  They think a trade gets you NcDavid or Drysaitl for him.  But overall, Hanifin + Bert + Domi makes them a lot tougher in the playoffs.  Gets them goals they don't score there.  And eliminates the $10M extension.  Big picture.  Murray bought out is a win.  I couldn't believe that his actual salary this year is $8M.  ANd Dorion still has a job!

[phoenix66]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't think it's a win for him, in that the fans think Willie is worth 4 first rounders.  They think a trade gets you NcDavid or Drysaitl for him.  But overall, Hanifin + Bert + Domi makes them a lot tougher in the playoffs.  Gets them goals they don't score there.  And eliminates the $10M extension.  Big picture.  Murray bought out is a win.  I couldn't believe that his actual salary this year is $8M.  ANd Dorion still has a job!

I hate speaking I'll of the dead but when the Ottawa owner passed away Dorion suddenly transformed into a good gm.  Were it not for the "summer of Brad" taking the headlines last summer Dorion won it hands down ..

 

Only thing that really makes me nervous about a potential Nylander trade is it almost guaranteed has to include a prospect..and BT you gotta know is gonna want Wolf or Coronato..

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I hate speaking I'll of the dead but when the Ottawa owner passed away Dorion suddenly transformed into a good gm.  Were it not for the "summer of Brad" taking the headlines last summer Dorion won it hands down ..

 

Only thing that really makes me nervous about a potential Nylander trade is it almost guaranteed has to include a prospect..and BT you gotta know is gonna want Wolf or Coronato..

 

Non starter.  I don't have an issue in including Vladar in the deal for Nylander, but has to include equivalent of a 2nd or 3rd coming back.  Holmberg or Robertson.  Balances out the money a bit better.

[Thebrewcrew]

I wonder if taking a "step back" for the Flames is actually on the table.

 

They don't have much cap space, but you can exceed the cap in the summer. Look at Toronto.

 

The Toffoli trade makes them worse, on paper. A Hanifin deal will as well. If anything, Calgary would be taking on bad money in a Hanifin trade.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I wonder if taking a "step back" for the Flames is actually on the table.

 

They don't have much cap space, but you can exceed the cap in the summer. Look at Toronto.

 

The Toffoli trade makes them worse, on paper. A Hanifin deal will as well. If anything, Calgary would be taking on bad money in a Hanifin trade.

 

I think a lot of deals that happened were teams loading up for this year.  The team mimics its winners.  Bigger tougher is the new normal.  The smarter GM's are looking strategically.  Compher is a pay now save later deal.  Bert is a pay now and pay a lot more later or just a one year get tougher.  

 

We picked the wrong year to take a step back.  If it's just a year then it makes little sense.  Trading Toffoli is meant to create competition for the top RW spot, but right now we don't have those top 6 RW defaults.  So we have like Ward had in Lindholm-Dube.  Deserved maybe but no competition.  I would like to see an actual top 6 RW brought in.  Let them fight and claw with other to get the #1 job.  

 

Perhaps some buy low candidates get you some decent play:

Erne, Comtois, Patrick, Puljujarvi

[phoenix66]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Non starter.  I don't have an issue in including Vladar in the deal for Nylander, but has to include equivalent of a 2nd or 3rd coming back.  Holmberg or Robertson.  Balances out the money a bit better.

Agreed ..im not trading either of those guys ..

 

[phoenix66]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think a lot of deals that happened were teams loading up for this year.  The team mimics its winners.  Bigger tougher is the new normal.  The smarter GM's are looking strategically.  Compher is a pay now save later deal.  Bert is a pay now and pay a lot more later or just a one year get tougher.  

 

We picked the wrong year to take a step back.  If it's just a year then it makes little sense.  Trading Toffoli is meant to create competition for the top RW spot, but right now we don't have those top 6 RW defaults.  So we have like Ward had in Lindholm-Dube.  Deserved maybe but no competition.  I would like to see an actual top 6 RW brought in.  Let them fight and claw with other to get the #1 job.  

 

Perhaps some buy low candidates get you some decent play:

Erne, Comtois, Patrick, Puljujarvi

Also ..i think a lot deals are being held up waiting for Debrincat, Karlsson, Tarasenko ..and to a lesser extent Dumba to fall ..

 

The losers in that will be circling once those chips fall 

 

I still like Puuljarvi..he's almost a free signing he will be on IR the bulk of this season ..won't even count 

[MP5029]

12 hours ago, tmac70 said:

If NYR would be open to a Laferiane trade for Hanifin that would be something of interest, They are a little shallow on the D end. Laferiane has not done much, change could be what is needed.

I agree but personally NYR would need to add a bit only cause a team

would want some assurance on the gamble with Laferiane, especially when your talking a player in the likes of Hanifin…he’s proven, young and affordable where as Laferiane could simply be a dud too big a risk for a straight up…

 

having said that, the general consensus is Hanifin should bring in:

 

1st

High prospect or good roster player

prospect 

 

I’d say Laferiane would cover the high prospect slot

 

NYR had a first rounder next year and the year after and would probably be a later 1st rounder so they may be inclined to do that..

 

b-level prospect that’s a hard call, not sure..they may opt to send Cgy a player for cap space rather than a prospect…which if a younger player could make

sense for Cgy 

 

on the surface NYR could totally make a move for Hanifin 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Also ..i think a lot deals are being held up waiting for Debrincat, Karlsson, Tarasenko ..and to a lesser extent Dumba to fall ..

 

The losers in that will be circling once those chips fall 

 

I still like Puuljarvi..he's almost a free signing he will be on IR the bulk of this season ..won't even count 

Maybe.  Bear is also a buy low LTIR option.

Not that I would build a team based on LTIR.

You have to mitigate against Tanev or Ras injuries on the RD.

 

Get that cap space without LTIR is you can or just go ahead and trade for top players.

I think we could be quietly strong this season as is, assuming a few players moving out.

Ruzie with a better role, Pelletier in a position to score, Kylington back in the top 4.

Weegar will rebund as will Hubey.

If we trade Lindholm for futures, all bets off.

 

I think we should try to maximize the perceived values of Backlund and Mangiapane.

While they both are good for us, a drop off in play is not.

They take up important minutes for us.

As a package, they might make a team lik CHI a stronger team.

Lukas Reichel and Raddysh for the pair.

Really a cap dump for futures, but both are gong to be good.

Then we can look at Dumba as a FA and trade Hanifin for whatever we like.

[travel_dude]

Sorry for all the dumb ideas.  I think there are so many ways we can improve overall this summer.  Trades are necessary.  Rolling out the same has its value but it doesn't get us any cap relief.