2023 Offseason

[conundrumed]

So generally, we seem to have a bunch of toxic vets around, "We want to win now" tends to go hand-in-hand with spreading the idea that this team has no chance to do that. Gotta get that attitude gone. Spend this year getting the cap in order and getting rid of what is becoming clearer and clearer what(who) the problem is. Backlund should have been gone at tdl last year. Instead he's a growing cancer that many want to be the captain. He's captaining something alright. He's gotta go. 2 2nds, fine, just get him out of here. "Winning now" is kind of on you dumb Blockchains that see no reason to hold yourselves accountable. Gotta get rid of the complacency and this ridiculous entitlement that they assume they deserve. Let someone else pay for those attitudes rather than just whitewash it. We paid them, we owe them zero.

If Lindholm accepts that rumoured offer and it's 8 x $9, that will be Conroy's first gigantic fail that will ensure that he's making trades of the other guys in a "make the playoffs now" mindset that is virtually set up to fail.

We need to take a step back and breathe. The entire fanbase is okay with it and a lot weary of the constant, insufferable negative rumours. The city and fans deserve better than these worn out Satoshi Nakamototy attitudes.

[conundrumed]

10 minutes ago, Adrian_Flames_Fan said:

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and a CGY Flames fan from Switzerland. 
Unfortunately I didn't find a forum to introduce myself, but I will keep looking 🙂 If someone can tell me, that would be great! 

I am a bit split between rebuilt or retooling. 

Personally, I think that it makes no sense after Huby, Kadri and Weegsi have their longer-term contracts to give Lindy a 5+ contract. 

For me as an outsider and not Canadian it is better for the club now, where it is still possible to get profit from the players who are not 100% committed to the club.

I would: 
Trade: Hanifin, Toffoli, Backs (if he wants more than a 2 year contract). 
Keep and look at the TDL: Lindy, Tanev.

If possible the 3 trades so that there are picks (2023) and young players close or ready to play NHL Hockey. 

What really hurts in in whole is that the 1Rd pick could be gone in 2024 or 2025.... Depending on which MTL gets from us. 

 

The thing is, the only "information" on talks I get here are Twitter, this forum and some headliners in the net... so I really don't know what is accurat news and what is "looking for klicks" news 🤷‍♂️

Welcome Adrian!

Your takes are pretty accurate so you're doing a good job deciphering the news. We're at a crossroads so we're all waiting with baited breath to see the direction of the new GM.

Like you, I really don't know between a full rebuild or a couple of seasons of re-tooling. We have cap issues, player issues and way too much drama in the news.

There's a lot to fix. Management HAS to make a decision. Toeing-the-line is the one we all dread but tend to expect. Delaying the inevitable is what we fear the most. Conroy would need to turn every trade into solid gold and that is highly unlikely.

[Adrian_Flames_Fan]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Welcome Adrian!

Your takes are pretty accurate so you're doing a good job deciphering the news. We're at a crossroads so we're all waiting with baited breath to see the direction of the new GM.

Like you, I really don't know between a full rebuild or a couple of seasons of re-tooling. We have cap issues, player issues and way too much drama in the news.

There's a lot to fix. Management HAS to make a decision. Toeing-the-line is the one we all dread but tend to expect. Delaying the inevitable is what we fear the most. Conroy would need to turn every trade into solid gold and that is highly unlikely.

Thx for the feedback.

I believ Conroy is the one, with Iggy as AGM or so called special advisor 😉 how are, with his positiv way and love to the city of Calgary to turn this team around.

I hope the moste of the trades are made befor or at the draft..... so let's wait and se 🙄

[travel_dude]

54 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So generally, we seem to have a bunch of toxic vets around, "We want to win now" tends to go hand-in-hand with spreading the idea that this team has no chance to do that. Gotta get that attitude gone. Spend this year getting the cap in order and getting rid of what is becoming clearer and clearer what(who) the problem is. Backlund should have been gone at tdl last year. Instead he's a growing cancer that many want to be the captain. He's captaining something alright. He's gotta go. 2 2nds, fine, just get him out of here. "Winning now" is kind of on you dumb Blockchains that see no reason to hold yourselves accountable. Gotta get rid of the complacency and this ridiculous entitlement that they assume they deserve. Let someone else pay for those attitudes rather than just whitewash it. We paid them, we owe them zero.

If Lindholm accepts that rumoured offer and it's 8 x $9, that will be Conroy's first gigantic fail that will ensure that he's making trades of the other guys in a "make the playoffs now" mindset that is virtually set up to fail.

We need to take a step back and breathe. The entire fanbase is okay with it and a lot weary of the constant, insufferable negative rumours. The city and fans deserve better than these worn out Satoshi Nakamototy attitudes.

There may be a bit of Sutter no-Sutter stuff going on, though I don't think that is the reason why Backlund wants out.  He thinks he belongs on the top line, though he never was able to elevate his game to top line material.  He thinks he's the captain due to seniority.  Like it's a union.  So, my reaction to Backlund is thanks, but it's time for you to move regardless.  As you said, he's had his playoffs here and hasn't done anything more than acted a bit tougher.  

 

I think Lindholm should be a 5 year deal, but that may not be what the owners/GM want.  Should have started with that, so that any long term offer (7 max IMHO) would be lower AAV.  They are already maxing out on the offer.  I get it, come in strong with your top offer.  I never agreed with that idea.

 

Who wants to stay.  Never should have got to the point where players are "publicly" asking for a trade.  Lindholm, should we decide to trade him, should get the most, but it should be for a younger, less proven C.  You don't give up your top C for less.  He may not be an Eichel, but he's never had a big (possibly) career ending injury.  He is not at risk of having a botched surgery.  SHould be a similar return.  Nobody coming back over the age of 24.  

 

Hanifin should have a bunch of suitors and while I was hot to trade him, I think he has a lot of value.  He wants a trade so buh bye.  Reward his loyalty by trading him to Arizona. 

 

Toffoli is questionable.  I don't know if I truly believe he wants out or just wants more clarity.  His fave coach was fired and replaced with the A/coaches and the old guard is now in charge of the GM area.  If you make other moves, you see what the team is starting to look like and make the decision then.  If you know he won't re-sign, then you size up the offers and make the move.  Or you hold on till TDL.

 

Keeping Backlund till TDL would be a huge mistake.  He's gonna kill the room.  If Toffoli is the same way or is still vocal, then same for him.     

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

There may be a bit of Sutter no-Sutter stuff going on, though I don't think that is the reason why Backlund wants out.  He thinks he belongs on the top line, though he never was able to elevate his game to top line material.  He thinks he's the captain due to seniority.  Like it's a union.  So, my reaction to Backlund is thanks, but it's time for you to move regardless.  As you said, he's had his playoffs here and hasn't done anything more than acted a bit tougher.  

 

I think Lindholm should be a 5 year deal, but that may not be what the owners/GM want.  Should have started with that, so that any long term offer (7 max IMHO) would be lower AAV.  They are already maxing out on the offer.  I get it, come in strong with your top offer.  I never agreed with that idea.

 

Who wants to stay.  Never should have got to the point where players are "publicly" asking for a trade.  Lindholm, should we decide to trade him, should get the most, but it should be for a younger, less proven C.  You don't give up your top C for less.  He may not be an Eichel, but he's never had a big (possibly) career ending injury.  He is not at risk of having a botched surgery.  SHould be a similar return.  Nobody coming back over the age of 24.  

 

Hanifin should have a bunch of suitors and while I was hot to trade him, I think he has a lot of value.  He wants a trade so buh bye.  Reward his loyalty by trading him to Arizona. 

 

Toffoli is questionable.  I don't know if I truly believe he wants out or just wants more clarity.  His fave coach was fired and replaced with the A/coaches and the old guard is now in charge of the GM area.  If you make other moves, you see what the team is starting to look like and make the decision then.  If you know he won't re-sign, then you size up the offers and make the move.  Or you hold on till TDL.

 

Keeping Backlund till TDL would be a huge mistake.  He's gonna kill the room.  If Toffoli is the same way or is still vocal, then same for him.     

One of Conroys first statements was  "if you dont want to be here then you're gone",  well even if you're not voicing your non comittal to the team, sitting on the fence till the 11th hour speaks volumes. I dont know if retaining some of the previous coaching/mgmt personell from last year is part of the players issue but the line need to be drawn or else whats to stop any player on an expiring contract from doing the same?

 

Unofficially I would ship them all to Arizona. It's already the leagues dumping ground for bad contracts so it may as well be the dumping ground for bad attitudes.

[sagacity7]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

One of Conroys first statements was  "if you dont want to be here then you're gone",  well even if you're not voicing your non comittal to the team, sitting on the fence till the 11th hour speaks volumes. I dont know if retaining some of the previous coaching/mgmt personell from last year is part of the players issue but the line need to be drawn or else whats to stop any player on an expiring contract from doing the same?

 

Unofficially I would ship them all to Arizona. It's already the leagues dumping ground for bad contracts so it may as well be the dumping ground for bad attitudes.

That would end the drama, not sure what the return would be. I agree though. You can’t let the cancer stick around and it’s time to move on from discontent. Hopefully this doesn’t grow into an Ottawa situation from a few years ago. That was more owner issues but still that may be part of the problem here too. Better to deal the players elsewhere and try to maximize the return for those not wanting to stay. You can’t just give them a “time out” for bad behaviour.

[cross16]

I think there's too much focus on the "wanting out" piece. I think circumstances play a large part in this in particular the 7 UFAs. I think the tough part of this is while i'm sure the Flames like Hanifin and Toffoli as players the contracts they are asking for are likely something you don't like. I've said this plenty but while I like Hanifin as a player he is not a player i'd commit a large contract too. Is Toffoli someone, at age 31, you want to give a big deal to? I understand that is the primary factors here, not these players not wanting to be here it's mostly contract driven. 

 

Then you look further. If your Backlund and you want to win a cup how are you feeling about things if the Flames aren't brining back Toffoli/Hanifin? If your LIndholm are you wanting to stay here for 8 years knowing what the next few years look like? It spirals but at the end of the day I don't think the root of this is players wanting out, it's just a reality of where the team stands right now. 

 

And I actually don't think it's unhealthy either. The only negative for me in all of this is I'm not sure this was plan A for Conroy and the Flames so what is Plan B? I don't get the sense the Flames planned to have this much exodus so what is the reaction and what is plan B. I think the skepticism argument here is that plan B is what the Flames always do and that's find a way to scrape into the playoffs moving forward. That would obviously be the unhealthy choice IMO

 

next month will be telling. 

[JTech780]

I guess not a lot of surprises when you look at the exit interviews. 
 

Like I said before I can see Zadorov sticking around, and quite honestly you need guys like him that want to play here and will play hard here if they go through a rebuild or a retool.

[cross16]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Could this be a bad time to go into a rebuild due to the Monahan deal? I read that a fan looked until it and that puck Montreal got, they said, could be a Flames pick that is anywhere from 2-32 in 2025 I think they said?

 

Theoretically yes, but in order for it to be the Flames giving up a top 10 pick 2 things have to happen. 

1- Habs pass on using the Flames 2024 first rounder (can use it if it's between 20-32

2 - Florida would have to be a lottery pick team in 2025. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

50 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think there's too much focus on the "wanting out" piece. I think circumstances play a large part in this in particular the 7 UFAs. I think the tough part of this is while i'm sure the Flames like Hanifin and Toffoli as players the contracts they are asking for are likely something you don't like. I've said this plenty but while I like Hanifin as a player he is not a player i'd commit a large contract too. Is Toffoli someone, at age 31, you want to give a big deal to? I understand that is the primary factors here, not these players not wanting to be here it's mostly contract driven. 

 

Then you look further. If your Backlund and you want to win a cup how are you feeling about things if the Flames aren't brining back Toffoli/Hanifin? If your LIndholm are you wanting to stay here for 8 years knowing what the next few years look like? It spirals but at the end of the day I don't think the root of this is players wanting out, it's just a reality of where the team stands right now. 

 

And I actually don't think it's unhealthy either. The only negative for me in all of this is I'm not sure this was plan A for Conroy and the Flames so what is Plan B? I don't get the sense the Flames planned to have this much exodus so what is the reaction and what is plan B. I think the skepticism argument here is that plan B is what the Flames always do and that's find a way to scrape into the playoffs moving forward. That would obviously be the unhealthy choice IMO

 

next month will be telling. 

I dont know if I would call it unhealthy but my main concern is the fact that the news of a players non extension makes it out to the media. This makes things alot more difficult for the team to get the best possible return when the player gets moved which in my mind is a bit of an a**hole move, wether its the player or agent that does it, it causes undo difficulties for the team. This would mostly affect small market Canadian teams the most.

[JTech780]

Can’t wait to listen to this at lunch while I play Diablo 4.

 

Flames targeting Duclair is not surprising, put up 30 goals playing with Huberdeau. Good contract, but he is another guy that is a year away from UFA, though he might want to just stick somewhere for awhile.

 

Backlund being offered the captaincy is not surprising, and signals that they would prefer to keep him, but it sounds like he feels like he might have a better chance to win elsewhere.

 

I do like that Calgary is being tight on term, when you look at the player’s ages here that only makes sense.

[tmac70]

 

 

This is where Conroy can make a statement as well, things are going to change. I am on the side of this is a positive thing for this organization. The Hanifin for Duclair trade is stupid frankly, it's actually laughable. Going after Duclair I can understand but under no way is that an equal swap, that's a huge Fing win for FLA. Also what is interesting is we have a mass exodus as i thought the big bad coach was the only issue. The fact you allow the inmates to run the asylum this is what you get, you give them what they wanted but yeah I want more. 

 

We all know this club is nowhere near a contender, personally, I like Kadri as a player but have to believe that 90% of the issues we have now are because of him. The other issue is you have players that are aging out and this is not a club that is going to win a cup anytime soon. Lindy, Hanifin, Backs, and Toffoli can cash out for that I don't blame them. So now trade them out. If we can get 2-3 first-rounders for these guys this year then do it. What pisses me off the most is Trevling , he screwed this club so far into the ground before he left. This all was a calculated move and why he was not returning, rant over. 

 

So is there a possible way to move up in the draft to a top 3-5 spot? I keep going back to CLB and the 3rd overall. 

 

To CLB

Lindholm, Zadorov CGY 1st 

 

CGY 

CLB # 1st (3)  CLB 2nd Sillinger and roster player to balance the numbers 

 

Adding Zadorov and Gubranson back together with the adds they have made makes CLB a way better team. If CLB is in a win now situation and Lindy would sign yeah this moves the neddle fast for them 

[The_People1]

42 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont know if I would call it unhealthy but my main concern is the fact that the news of a players non extension makes it out to the media. This makes things alot more difficult for the team to get the best possible return when the player gets moved which in my mind is a bit of an a**hole move, wether its the player or agent that does it, it causes undo difficulties for the team. This would mostly affect small market Canadian teams the most.

 

It's looking like the difference between Conroy and BT is that Conroy will leak stuff to the media.  Or, perhaps the leaks are intentional because it helps paint the team as the victim and so will be forgiven for what's about to transpire.  It could be a tactic to gauge fan appetite for a rebuild... If Conroy is that smart of course.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Can’t wait to listen to this at lunch while I play Diablo 4.

 

Flames targeting Duclair is not surprising, put up 30 goals playing with Huberdeau. Good contract, but he is another guy that is a year away from UFA, though he might want to just stick somewhere for awhile.

 

Backlund being offered the captaincy is not surprising, and signals that they would prefer to keep him, but it sounds like he feels like he might have a better chance to win elsewhere.

 

I do like that Calgary is being tight on term, when you look at the player’s ages here that only makes sense.

The first point sounds like guesswork

The second I kinda agree with

No interest in Duclair. I'd rather retain Zad. He seems like someone who wants to stay.

Was it a particular issue/player and has that already been resolved?

 

It's the time of year where everyone becomes an analyst and has all the answers (this board included). I'll wait until the dust settles before I worry or celebrate the upcoming season(s).

 

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 

To CLB

Lindholm, Zadorov CGY 1st 

 

CGY 

CLB # 1st (3)  CLB 2nd Sillinger and roster player to balance the numbers 

 

Dream on lol

 

If Conroy can land 3oa with Lindholm+ then he deserves to win GM of The Year.

[travel_dude]

Really, if Duclair is a target, then they should be offering no more than Backlund.

Duclair is often injured, and not exactly a good contract term remaining.

If you want to be bold, then Hanifin and Backlund for Duclair, Lundell and Michael Benning.

No picks involved.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont know if I would call it unhealthy but my main concern is the fact that the news of a players non extension makes it out to the media. This makes things alot more difficult for the team to get the best possible return when the player gets moved which in my mind is a bit of an a**hole move, wether its the player or agent that does it, it causes undo difficulties for the team. This would mostly affect small market Canadian teams the most.

 

I don't really agree. What leverage do the Flames gain if this doesn't get out? Other GMs arn't going to know the reason why Hanifin is being moved is he wants out? Deceit doesn't' get you very far IMO. 

 

works both ways too. Part of the reason the Flames got a brutal return for Phaneuf was Sutter didn't put it out there he was willing to move him. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Can’t wait to listen to this at lunch while I play Diablo 4.

 

Flames targeting Duclair is not surprising, put up 30 goals playing with Huberdeau. Good contract, but he is another guy that is a year away from UFA, though he might want to just stick somewhere for awhile.

 

Backlund being offered the captaincy is not surprising, and signals that they would prefer to keep him, but it sounds like he feels like he might have a better chance to win elsewhere.

 

I do like that Calgary is being tight on term, when you look at the player’s ages here that only makes sense.

 

Zadorov for Duclair is a fair trade.  But if the Flames are losing Hanifin in a separate deal, then who is playing D next season?  Not to mention, losing Lucic, Ritchie, etc... then to also lose Zadorov... that's lots of muscles leaving this team.  Will we get pushed around next season?

[cross16]

The Duclair thing is speculation on the part of the hosts. Not a rumor and they didn't even say they know the Flames have interest. 

 

Man.. this is gonna be a tough summer. Starting to prepare myself for a lot of overaction, negativity and scapegoating...... 

 

I already see we are back to scapegoating's another GM even though the Flames are in the same situation they were in 10 yeas ago. Wonder what hasn't changed in that time frame.....

[sak22]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Zadorov for Duclair is a fair trade.  But if the Flames are losing Hanifin in a separate deal, then who is playing D next season?  Not to mention, losing Lucic, Ritchie, etc... then to also lose Zadorov... that's lots of muscles leaving this team.  Will we get pushed around next season?

We still have Dennis Gilbert, maybe I'm wrong but I thought he had more fights than anyone on the Flames last year.

 

Lots of areas you can go though, honestly if you can find situation where you can take on a contract another team wants to get rid of and get picks for doing so, for example Ghost to Arizona worked out well for them, that's what I'd look for. 

[JTech780]

I could see Florida coveting Hanifin, seems like he play the style they like. It would make sense for Calgary to target Duclair as part of the return, as they really want to get Huberdeau going.

 

IMO Florida still has to add a pretty legit piece to this deal to make it work. I would love to get Anton Lundell, but I am not sure that that is something Florid would be willing to do. They just don’t have many other assets.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Man.. this is gonna be a tough summer. Starting to prepare myself for a not of overaction, negativity and scapegoating...... 

 

We wouldn't have a message board if it wasn't for overreactions, negativity, and scapegoating.  I mean, we have a dedicated positivity thread because all threads are negative by default lol.

[zima]

So with most of our players wanting to leave where does that leave us with a new arena why would Alberta and Calgary invest in a team that can't keep there star players? 

[phoenix66]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

This is the official wording,

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/draft/2024?pick=5

A lot of spinning wheels in there but I think it always ends up being lottery protected unless it gets to 2025 or something like that 

[sak22]

 

Frank might be wrong on this, I don't believe her name is Barb.