GDT Bruins @ Flames Feb 28/23 Start time 7pm

[tmac70]

2 minutes ago, rickross said:

I’m not even sure what a favourable schedule is to this team. I’d be very concerned about teams playing spoiler…Flames have struggled against bad teams this year. I can’t even remember the last winning streak that lasted longer than 2 games. Gotta win 4 out of 7 !…have the Flames even had a 4 game win streak this season ? 🤔 
 

 

 

Nope

[tmac70]

The things that kill us are goaltending and goal-scoring. In his presser even Hubie said the same thing. We outshoot every team and is it that the goalies are that good or we can't find the back of the net?

[rocketdoctor]

Well it's not like we have any good goalies in the pipepline........

[conundrumed]

Even the completely homer Boston commentators said after the first that it should be 0-0 if not for goaltending.

There really is no point now if there's no change in net. It went from a problem to a complete reality. Every. Single. Game. Doesn't matter who the opponent is.

[tmac70]

5 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Well it's not like we have any good goalies in the pipepline........

I watch a lot of the Wranglers. Is Wolf a good prospect, sure, but is not a franchise savior. I think it may be premature to put him in this situation.

[cross16]

11 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I watch a lot of the Wranglers. Is Wolf a good prospect, sure, but is not a franchise savior. I think it may be premature to put him in this situation.

 

He doesn't need to be a franchise savior, he just needs to be a league avg goalie. There are other issues going on for sure but the fact of the matter is with even just league average goaltending the Flames are in the playoffs right now.  The flames make errors sure (so do all teams though) but they keep shots and chances low overall. Think it be a pretty good spot to put a young goalie in actually. 

 

But it doesn't matter now anyway I think it's too late, but if the Flames still think they can/want to make the playoffs I would agree that calling up Wolf is the only option. Short of making a goalie trade. There is nothing in either of their games right now that make me think Vladar/Markstrom are turning this around. 

[tmac70]

The game from a Flame's perspective was well played. You have 57 shots against the best team in the league, 3 breakaways, over 8 chances in the slot, low level 2 on 1's, and get 3 goals, and 2 posts, it's not like the opportunity to score was not there. Neither of the Bruins first 2 goals should have went in. Plus with the amount of quailty chances you need more offense. 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, rickross said:

I’m not even sure what a favourable schedule is to this team. I’d be very concerned about teams playing spoiler…Flames have struggled against bad teams this year. I can’t even remember the last winning streak that lasted longer than 2 games. Gotta win 4 out of 7 !…have the Flames even had a 4 game win streak this season ? 🤔 
 

 

 

 

We don't even need more than 3 game win streaks.  But we need a bunch of them.

[tmac70]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

He doesn't need to be a franchise savior, he just needs to be a league avg goalie. There are other issues going on for sure but the fact of the matter is with even just league average goaltending the Flames are in the playoffs right now.  The flames make errors sure (so do all teams though) but they keep shots and chances low overall. Think it be a pretty good spot to put a young goalie in actually. 

 

But it doesn't matter now anyway I think it's too late, but if the Flames still think they can/want to make the playoffs I would agree that calling up Wolf is the only option. Short of making a goalie trade. There is nothing in either of their games right now that make me think Vladar/Markstrom are turning this around. 

 With the way the season of negativity is with this club, exposing or risking damage to a good prospect I am not sure is worth it at this point. 

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 With the way the season of negativity is with this club, exposing or risking damage to a good prospect I am not sure is worth it at this point. 

 

If he can't handle it then he likely isn't a good prospect.

 

I also don't think it's near as negative in the room as the fans feels it is. They've played a great game last night, against one of the top teams in the league which would signal to me that there is still some belief/comradery in that room. 

 

I know they won't call him up so this isn't really a worthwhile argument. I don't think there'd be any appetite to having 3 goalies around anyway. Just saying that if they really want to be in the playoffs then calling up Wolf would be necessary IMO. 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

He doesn't need to be a franchise savior, he just needs to be a league avg goalie. There are other issues going on for sure but the fact of the matter is with even just league average goaltending the Flames are in the playoffs right now.  The flames make errors sure (so do all teams though) but they keep shots and chances low overall. Think it be a pretty good spot to put a young goalie in actually. 

 

But it doesn't matter now anyway I think it's too late, but if the Flames still think they can/want to make the playoffs I would agree that calling up Wolf is the only option. Short of making a goalie trade. There is nothing in either of their games right now that make me think Vladar/Markstrom are turning this around. 

 

And Korpisalo went to the Kings for Quick.  Was other parts, but another one off the market.

We could recycle Talbot at a cost.

\Want to hear something crazy?

Campbell has a .884 SA% a 3.48 GAA and a 17-8-4 record.

Skinner is .912 a 2.91 GAA and is 15-13-4

 

Score one more goal per game and we aren't fretting about goalies as much.

We make backups look like stars.

 

There is more than just one problem here.

The talent was there in nets and somehow got skewered.

We dominate games except on the scoreboard.

When we barely show up, it's lopsided.

 

We can win enough games to get in.

But I don't think we have the right coach to get there.

[The_People1]

30 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

He doesn't need to be a franchise savior, he just needs to be a league avg goalie. There are other issues going on for sure but the fact of the matter is with even just league average goaltending the Flames are in the playoffs right now.  The flames make errors sure (so do all teams though) but they keep shots and chances low overall. Think it be a pretty good spot to put a young goalie in actually. 

 

But it doesn't matter now anyway I think it's too late, but if the Flames still think they can/want to make the playoffs I would agree that calling up Wolf is the only option. Short of making a goalie trade. There is nothing in either of their games right now that make me think Vladar/Markstrom are turning this around. 

 

Should the goalie coaches be fired?  Feels like they've ruined enough of our goaltenders over the years.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Even the completely homer Boston commentators said after the first that it should be 0-0 if not for goaltending.

There really is no point now if there's no change in net. It went from a problem to a complete reality. Every. Single. Game. Doesn't matter who the opponent is.

 

it has also gotten to a point where they played both goalies into playing very bad. One was rolling but they continued to go with the one that wasn't and effectively misused the one that was.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

it has also gotten to a point where they played both goalies into playing very bad. One was rolling but they continued to go with the one that wasn't and effectively misused the one that was.

 

44 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Should the goalie coaches be fired?  Feels like they've ruined enough of our goaltenders over the years.

 

I really don't know whose decision it was to sit the hot goalie and go with the starter.

It was as simple as that. 

Up to the All Star break, Valadar was fine and actually better than just fine.

1-2-1 and one pull since then.

Marky is 2-2-3, one of the OTL being a replacement.

 

The 5 goal DET loss, the Vegas goals against (OTL) and the 2 goals against BOS are the bad.

The coach's decisions seem to have brought out the worst ion the goalies.

Sutter has zero faith in Vladar, whether he is playing better or worse than the starter.

Frustrating to Vladar, where he to be perfect or not get the coach to run him.

 

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Should the goalie coaches be fired?  Feels like they've ruined enough of our goaltenders over the years.

 

So my caveat here is I don't feel I can judge a position coach. That work takes place behind the scenes so IMO fans don't really have insight.

 

But I also don't' think you put this on a coach. Their goaltending was among the best in the league last year so unless they completely overhauled their program (unlikely) they clearly did something right last year. I also don't think it's fair to blame a position coach when a player's confidence goes to heck which is IMO what's happened to Vladar and Markstrom this year. 

 

I don't really have a strong opinion on firing them or keeping them because I don't know what happens behind the scenes but based what i've heard, read, and seen I don't see coaching as a problem there. 

[zima]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

So my caveat here is I don't feel I can judge a position coach. That work takes place behind the scenes so IMO fans don't really have insight.

 

But I also don't' think you put this on a coach. Their goaltending was among the best in the league last year so unless they completely overhauled their program (unlikely) they clearly did something right last year. I also don't think it's fair to blame a position coach when a player's confidence goes to heck which is IMO what's happened to Vladar and Markstrom this year. 

 

I don't really have a strong opinion on firing them or keeping them because I don't know what happens behind the scenes but based what i've heard, read, and seen I don't see coaching as a problem there. 

Is it just my imagination or does it seem that we have a great season one yr and the next this team can no longer match play of the yr before Marky last yr was a vezina finalist and this yr he can't stop a beach ball. I guess my biggest question is why  one yr were top or close to top in our division and the next we can't put 3 straight wins together? This is not the first time we have done this our coach becomes coach of the yr of course we don't get past the second round for that season and the next yr we are removing the coach and looking to trade our picks for more dead weight. I really hate to say this but I think it is time to clear the front office and trade all our dead weight for picks and start over again remove Nas Coleman Huber keep up pel bring up Phillips and perhaps zary. BURN it DOWN

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

So my caveat here is I don't feel I can judge a position coach. That work takes place behind the scenes so IMO fans don't really have insight.

 

But I also don't' think you put this on a coach. Their goaltending was among the best in the league last year so unless they completely overhauled their program (unlikely) they clearly did something right last year. I also don't think it's fair to blame a position coach when a player's confidence goes to heck which is IMO what's happened to Vladar and Markstrom this year. 

 

I don't really have a strong opinion on firing them or keeping them because I don't know what happens behind the scenes but based what i've heard, read, and seen I don't see coaching as a problem there. 

 

I find it odd that medium danger shots are going in too frequently.

We limit high danger and get burned by medium ones?

Something has changed in the structure or playbook in front.

But when goalies are beat regularly by shots like inside far post, or upper corners you have to wonder.

Too many times the goalies are losing their spot in the net.

What used to miss the net is now in the net.

Goalies playing too deep or on their knees.

[zima]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I find it odd that medium danger shots are going in too frequently.

We limit high danger and get burned by medium ones?

Something has changed in the structure or playbook in front.

But when goalies are beat regularly by shots like inside far post, or upper corners you have to wonder.

Too many times the goalies are losing their spot in the net.

What used to miss the net is now in the net.

Goalies playing too deep or on their knees.

Marky is turning into a price lost all his abilities to see the puck what I don't understand is why we don't take a chance on Wolf I don't see what we have to lose?

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I find it odd that medium danger shots are going in too frequently.

We limit high danger and get burned by medium ones?

Something has changed in the structure or playbook in front.

But when goalies are beat regularly by shots like inside far post, or upper corners you have to wonder.

Too many times the goalies are losing their spot in the net.

What used to miss the net is now in the net.

Goalies playing too deep or on their knees.

 

That's all confidence IMO. I think both are losing fundamentals because they are trying to hard. I'm not going to blame Markstrom for the tying goal last night but at the same time he was in a poor position. There was no need for him to be that far out of his net and not seeing a guy on the door step. Again not at all his fault, but just details like that. Think he's overanxious trying to prove something. 

 

Don't think there is anything structurally different. The breakdowns this year, vs last, are chalked up to communication. When you play man to man you need a high level of communication and comfort level with your partner and that's been an issue for this team this year. A lot of high danger chances come off of that IMO. 

 

And now you just have players trying to hard to be a different, like Z last night. That hit was stupid but I think it's just a player trying to hard to be a difference and I can appreciate why this team is at that level right now. 

[taz89]

Can we just bring up the entire wrangler team to play the rest of the season?  i think they will do better...

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That's all confidence IMO. I think both are losing fundamentals because they are trying to hard. I'm not going to blame Markstrom for the tying goal last night but at the same time he was in a poor position. There was no need for him to be that far out of his net and not seeing a guy on the door step. Again not at all his fault, but just details like that. Think he's overanxious trying to prove something. 

 

Don't think there is anything structurally different. The breakdowns this year, vs last, are chalked up to communication. When you play man to man you need a high level of communication and comfort level with your partner and that's been an issue for this team this year. A lot of high danger chances come off of that IMO. 

 

And now you just have players trying to hard to be a different, like Z last night. That hit was stupid but I think it's just a player trying to hard to be a difference and I can appreciate why this team is at that level right now. 

 

Combine the hit with Mangiapane within 2 feet of him.

That leaves 3 guys open.  

You don't go for the hit but he was using it as a defensive play.  Didn't work in either case.

 

I agree both seems to be overplaying it.  

Which is odd, because a lot of goals are little movement on the shot.

Wave at puck.  That kind of thing.

But yeah, fundamentals seem to be off.

[rickross]

13 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Nope

Wow ..it really has been that frustrating a year? Not even 1 four game win streak this season?? Yikes! Major inconsistency issues across the board. I don’t think that would bode well for our playoff chances if we even make it! 1st rd exit damn near guaranteed 

[rickross]

6 minutes ago, taz89 said:

Can we just bring up the entire wrangler team to play the rest of the season?  i think they will do better...

Wouldn’t be surprised if they salvaged the season for us. What we got right now ain’t getting it done

[tmac70]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That's all confidence IMO. I think both are losing fundamentals because they are trying to hard. I'm not going to blame Markstrom for the tying goal last night but at the same time he was in a poor position. There was no need for him to be that far out of his net and not seeing a guy on the door step. Again not at all his fault, but just details like that. Think he's overanxious trying to prove something. 

 

Don't think there is anything structurally different. The breakdowns this year, vs last, are chalked up to communication. When you play man to man you need a high level of communication and comfort level with your partner and that's been an issue for this team this year. A lot of high danger chances come off of that IMO. 

 

And now you just have players trying to hard to be a different, like Z last night. That hit was stupid but I think it's just a player trying to hard to be a difference and I can appreciate why this team is at that level right now. 

Have to agree this is how I view it as well. There are outside forces at work that adds to the internal pressure of playing better. The pressure to perform has astronomical effects on their performances. I do think that the mental strain is becoming more and more apparent. Really players can't get away from it, media fans management.   

 

You can see it with Hubie, Kadri, Lindholm, Tanev ect. It's been stated many times that your best players have to be better, these guys have not. The reality is they are paid for this reason.  Do I see Sutter in their everyday browbeating them, no, but the message has been delivered, hounded on by the social media, the media, and the fans. Most professional athletes put more pressure on themselves to perform than anyone else could but the constant negativity can get overbearing, welcome to the Canadian market. 

 

Confidence is fragile and can change very quickly in either direction. Hubie mentioned in his presser simple passes this year are complicated this year just not working. This is not a coaching issue its more of an internal pressure to perform. He was signed to be a difference maker, be the game changer, and carry the team is what he would be thinking with his contract and extension. The internal pressure would be overwhelming for these guys as the harder they try the worse it gets. Unless you have been in that situation it's difficult to explain. You can do 90-95 of things right but that 5-10% you don't overshadow the rest. I have lived in my pro golf days and seen it firsthand in some of my high-level students. The only thing to do is simple easy things to bring back confidence. I use to have my students play from the front tees to regain the mentality and feeling of shooting lower scores. When you do it more often, see it more often, and feel it more often it becomes easier to believe. Just a thought I would make the nets smaller for practice, For the goalies, it would be harder to get scored on and that would bring back simple confidence they can still stop a puck. For the players, it would be harder to score in practice however the nets would look huge in a game. Simply subtle changes can make huge differences in confidence. I really see this whole season as not a coaching and systems problem as a player confidence issue. 

[travel_dude]

Just now, rickross said:

Wow ..it really has been that frustrating a year? Not even 1 four game win streak this season?? Yikes! Major inconsistency issues across the board. I don’t think that would bode well for our playoff chances if we even make it! 1st rd exit damn near guaranteed 

 

I think the playoff chances are better than our chances to get into them.

Odd, but we wear teams down.

We tend to knock a player out of the lineup.

In a 4-7 game set, we could easily take out two or three players.