2022 Offseason

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

I have a bad feeling that we are gonna regret moving Monahan…

 

the other two areas that could bite in a few years are the back Ends of Hubie and Kadri contracts….however, one thing I can say is both are highly competitive players which often extends production of really good players which these two are so it may not be that bad…I could see Hubie fall to a 2nd liner and Kadri to a 3rd liner after 35 years old which 7 and 10 mil will sting some even if the cap goes up some…the key I guess may lie in any trade or move clauses on the back end of those contracts?

 

The other sting is Cgy has moved an awfully lot of 1st round picks…which makes the prospect pool really thin at about the same time these guys are mid 30’s and the team will need theses picks we have been tossing out like candy…again, hopefully there are some options for

moving theses guys after they are 35 ish…not to say they won’t still be high level player but it would be good to have options open should it be needed…

 

ok so those are the concerns…not too bad over all…now for the positive!

 

Cgy is definitely committed to a 2-5 year window to win  now which is nice…BT seems to be all in, also hearing he’s looking at finally addressing the RW which has been a major issue since the Iggy days!

 

so mortgaging the future to

win now…well if they win could be with while 😊👍

 

Look at some of the older players out there.

Kane, Statsny, Pavelsky....

Are you thinking they are 3rd liners?

They have had career years and really good yers over the age of 30.

Sometimes you just need the right fit to excel.

Sometimes players are ageless.

We have picks over the next few years except of 1 x 1st, to be named later.

It's not a lotto pick.

 

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

We still got $2.1m in cap open...   Send vakimaki and a pick to Edmonton for Puljjaarvi and just get it over with 😁

Less $8-900,000 for Ruzicka. Damn I don't want him in the A this year but BT's running him out of real estate.

 

I'm taking a cautious approach with Kadri. Last season was a career outlier. I expect a 50-60pt season from him and a FO% a bit above 50%. Definitely a solid 2C.

If I put this in a trade context:

JG/Tkachuk = $20mil per

Kadri/Huberdeau = $17.5 per(bonus year of $12.9)

Weegar(1 yr $3.25) for Monahan and a future 1st

Artistic liberties I know. but I'm glad it went this way. I do love Mony and believe in him, but the risk is very real. I hope he's a 30 goal guy again, but that's an uphill battle after 2 years of injury nightmare.

I don't think either of JG/Tkachuk are worth their new salaries, but that's my opinion. JG is still the best skater in the game for my money, but those 2 aren't worth >20% of our cap.

There's too much to unload, so I'll put it in a nutshell.

@cross16 has been the only one to bring up this very important point: roster turnover. It takes awhile to find the synergy, so we fans will have to be patient.

We were already hard to play against and we just got harder imo. It's making me hard.lol

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Look at some of the older players out there.

Kane, Statsny, Pavelsky....

Are you thinking they are 3rd liners?

They have had career years and really good yers over the age of 30.

Sometimes you just need the right fit to excel.

Sometimes players are ageless.

We have picks over the next few years except of 1 x 1st, to be named later.

It's not a lotto pick.

 

Can't "like" mod posts, kind of a silly rule.

[bosn111]

I don’t see the mortgage of the future by trading away firsts like candy for 5 years from now. The Flames as of yesterday morning were holding 5 first round picks over the next 4 years and based on conditions of the Monahan deal, they still have 4 in the next 4 years and the only one available to trade, due to the conditions is 2023 which likely won’t move. Flames have rounds 1,2,4,6,7 in 23, 1,2,3,4,6 in 24, and 1,2,3,5,6,7 in 24. That is still plenty of picks to work with.

 

Right now, the Flames have 2 good years (with a Weegar extension) before needing to worry much about NEEDING to replace players on extend contracts. Weegar is the only really needed extension as only he, Lucic, Lewis, Valimaki, Vladar, Meloche and Mackey are up for contracts next year. Weegar is the only real impact player on the list, and if Vladar doesn’t sign, Wolf should be ready as backup. Lucic will either take huge pay cut to stay, or he is gone. All others are limited raises at best or are let go.
 

2 years away is the big one with Backlund, Lindholm, Toffoli, Dube, Rooney, Pelletier, Hanifin, Tanev, Zadorov, Kylington, Schwindt, Klapka, Kuznetsov, Solovyov and Wolf all due for new contracts.

 

A 5 year extension for Weegar significantly lessens the impact of that contract heavy summer. Lindholm likely gets a solid raise, Backlund pay decrease as he will be 35. Hanifin likely gets a raise but if asking too much, I see him traded. If Toffoli and Kylington really step up, they could need significant raises, if not then minor raises only at best. Tanev likely takes a pay cut due to age. 
 

In 3 years, Mangiapane is the only current expiring contract. Play will dictate raise or not. For prospects you have Zary, Kerins, Nikolayev, And Poirier. A couple of possible future big team players, but don’t know when.
 

4 years are currently Andersson and Markstrom. Andersson will be 29, right in his prime, while Markstrom will be past prime at 36.

 

Based on contracts, I would say that the Flames currently have a 2 year win now window. In order to keep Lindholm, you need prospects to replace Hanifin, Backlund, Toffoli, Tanev, and Kylington or have above players take cuts or limited raises depending on players.

 

If the Flames can extend Lindholm, who will be 29, and not downgrade too much from the other 2 year FAs then the second window is 4 years. Who knows what will happen at that point, but any solid first rounder picked in the next 2 years should be close to stepping in by that time, current prospects should all be stepping up by then or likely won’t make the big club.

 

It is basically impossible to consider anything beyond that as there are too many other variables at play. So 2 year window for sure, possible 4 year window. Other than that is anyone’s guess.

 

 

[conundrumed]

12 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I subtracted Dube for a particular reason and I won't go into it.

I think it's because you enjoy making mistakes.

[LouCifer]

I wouldn’t be so confident BT is holding on to the 2023 pick to use it at the draft. If this team explodes this year, it will be on the table at the TDL to go for a cup. In saying this, I do believe P.Kane will be targeted by BT. 

[phoenix66]

51 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Less $8-900,000 for Ruzicka. Damn I don't want him in the A this year but BT's running him out of real estate.

 

I'm taking a cautious approach with Kadri. Last season was a career outlier. I expect a 50-60pt season from him and a FO% a bit above 50%. Definitely a solid 2C.

If I put this in a trade context:

JG/Tkachuk = $20mil per

Kadri/Huberdeau = $17.5 per(bonus year of $12.9)

Weegar(1 yr $3.25) for Monahan and a future 1st

Artistic liberties I know. but I'm glad it went this way. I do love Mony and believe in him, but the risk is very real. I hope he's a 30 goal guy again, but that's an uphill battle after 2 years of injury nightmare.

I don't think either of JG/Tkachuk are worth their new salaries, but that's my opinion. JG is still the best skater in the game for my money, but those 2 aren't worth >20% of our cap.

There's too much to unload, so I'll put it in a nutshell.

@cross16 has been the only one to bring up this very important point: roster turnover. It takes awhile to find the synergy, so we fans will have to be patient.

We were already hard to play against and we just got harder imo. It's making me hard.lol

Agreed.  We're not adding Kadri for his 85 pts . We're adding everything he brings. The grit we lost with Chucky..somebody who can help his wingers be productive , so that Backlund can be a 3rd pair shutdown center with some offensive ability . If he can center a line of 20-30 goal scorers , and be a total PITA to the competition he will have earned his salary IMO . He is pretty much the perfect Sutter player 

 

 

In terms of understanding the Monahan trade, found this.. it's funny , genius and perfect at the same time lol 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[phoenix66]

13 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I wouldn’t be so confident BT is holding on to the 2023 pick to use it at the draft. If this team explodes this year, it will be on the table at the TDL to go for a cup. In saying this, I do believe P.Kane will be targeted by BT. 

Tbh , I heard his cryptic comments on that and my first thought was he already has plans for it .. just like I don't think it's coincidence Huberdeau chose 10 over 91( I believe it was his choice . Just think he might have known somebody else may be wanting it )

To expand on that.. the pick we gave up was to not eat salary..  the 2023 pick could make another team eat salary .

Just as an example..not saying he's a target but he could be... Taylor Hall at $6m is too expensive ...but Taylor Hall at $3m wouid be an awesome add

[LouCifer]

15 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Tbh , I heard his cryptic comments on that and my first thought was he already has plans for it .. just like I don't think it's coincidence Huberdeau chose 10 over 91( I believe it was his choice . Just think he might have known somebody else may be wanting it )

To expand on that.. the pick we gave up was to not eat salary..  the 2023 pick could make another team eat salary .

Just as an example..not saying he's a target but he could be... Taylor Hall at $6m is too expensive ...but Taylor Hall at $3m wouid be an awesome add

I thought BT had a rare slip on his media availability when he said something to the affect of “we have too many D” and tried to correct himself by saying something to the effect of “we have strength in D”. Now, anyone can see that we have too many D signed, so it isn’t a great “revelation” or anything, but for me it does confirm that he’s not done and the likely next move involves shipping out a defenseman. I also believe this is why Weegar’s contract extension is lying in waiting - BT is ensuring he has flexibility for plan A, B, and C. 

[phoenix66]

11 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I thought BT had a rare slip on his media availability when he said something to the affect of “we have too many D” and tried to correct himself by saying something to the effect of “we have strength in D”. Now, anyone can see that we have too many D signed, so it isn’t a great “revelation” or anything, but for me it does confirm that he’s not done and the likely next move involves shipping out a defenseman. I also believe this is why Weegar’s contract extension is lying in waiting - BT is ensuring he has flexibility for plan A, B, and C. 

That and I believe Steinberg does know  things.  He called Kadri.. and did say Weegar was as good as in the bank.. basically it's not urgent to finish.. huberdeau was urgent to shut people up . Tho I do believe hanaifn can't be tradeable unless Weegar is signed 

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Tbh , I heard his cryptic comments on that and my first thought was he already has plans for it .. just like I don't think it's coincidence Huberdeau chose 10 over 91( I believe it was his choice . Just think he might have known somebody else may be wanting it )

To expand on that.. the pick we gave up was to not eat salary..  the 2023 pick could make another team eat salary .

Just as an example..not saying he's a target but he could be... Taylor Hall at $6m is too expensive ...but Taylor Hall at $3m wouid be an awesome add

 

There is no way a team gives up a 1st to reduce a salary like Hall.

PLD or Laine possibly.

A lot of the TDL deals include 2nds or later, depending on the value and the player involved.

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There is no way a team gives up a 1st to reduce a salary like Hall.

PLD or Laine possibly.

A lot of the TDL deals include 2nds or later, depending on the value and the player involved.

Ya like I said just the first name that came to mind ..but it definitely is a weapon for a high name player at half price .. and wouid need to have some term left 

[conundrumed]

58 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Tbh , I heard his cryptic comments on that and my first thought was he already has plans for it .. just like I don't think it's coincidence Huberdeau chose 10 over 91( I believe it was his choice . Just think he might have known somebody else may be wanting it )

To expand on that.. the pick we gave up was to not eat salary..  the 2023 pick could make another team eat salary .

Just as an example..not saying he's a target but he could be... Taylor Hall at $6m is too expensive ...but Taylor Hall at $3m wouid be an awesome add

Because he's a better LWer than Huberdeau or Mangiapane?

I love the romanticism it would bring to the BoA, but nothing else. Don't need him, we have better.

[cross16]

I don't see the Flames having a small window at all in fact i'd argue they are looking at a good 4 year span here where they should be a good to great team. Assuming Weegar signs, which sounds like a formality, the next trigger point is Lindholm but there is plenty of money left for him. Yes they have a lot of expiring deals in 2 years but it's mosty (outside of Lindholm) the support players. Critical yes but replaceable via the farm or in FA. 

 

On top of that I thikn they have assets they can move. Dube likely has value, Hanifin has value, they've got prospects and picks. They are not asset rich by any means but they've got flexibility under the cap and they've got options to play around with to fill those holes and move salary around. 

 

I don't see this as a 2 year thing. 

 

 

 

[cross16]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Because he's a better LWer than Huberdeau or Mangiapane?

I love the romanticism it would bring to the BoA, but nothing else. Don't need him, we have better.

 

I got the Hall fascination a few years ago but now I don't get it at all. Why do we want to tie up more money in a LS LW?

[sak22]

35 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I got the Hall fascination a few years ago but now I don't get it at all. Why do we want to tie up more money in a LS LW?

Add in Boston is more in win now mode than the Flames are and will be without Marchand until December.  I don't see any urgency for Boston to use Hall as a cap dump.

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I don't see the Flames having a small window at all in fact i'd argue they are looking at a good 4 year span here where they should be a good to great team. Assuming Weegar signs, which sounds like a formality, the next trigger point is Lindholm but there is plenty of money left for him. Yes they have a lot of expiring deals in 2 years but it's mosty (outside of Lindholm) the support players. Critical yes but replaceable via the farm or in FA. 

 

On top of that I thikn they have assets they can move. Dube likely has value, Hanifin has value, they've got prospects and picks. They are not asset rich by any means but they've got flexibility under the cap and they've got options to play around with to fill those holes and move salary around. 

 

I don't see this as a 2 year thing. 

 

 

 

 

I would consider Dube or Hanifin to get better.  Like moving Hanfin for a bigger top 6 winger.

Or Dube for a similar ceiling player that plays a different style.

Depends on the player coming back.

[bosn111]

I guess I worded it poorly in my mentioning the 2 year window. It is 2 years with the current group as is. After 2 years, changes will occur for certain due to contracts which will potentially extend the window to 4 years. Depending on the moves made, and how various prospects turn out (Wolf for example) that window could even be bigger.

The Flames may be perennial contenders with the right moves. I am not psychic so I can only point out what is currently on the table.

 

Honestly it will be interesting to see what happens in Edmonton post McDavid. He is the big draw for Free Agents to play there. Without him, what is the pull? Calgary has shown the desire to always want to compete and will go after big targets to attain their goal. This is a draw for players who want to succeed.

 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I don't see the Flames having a small window at all in fact i'd argue they are looking at a good 4 year span here where they should be a good to great team. Assuming Weegar signs, which sounds like a formality, the next trigger point is Lindholm but there is plenty of money left for him. Yes they have a lot of expiring deals in 2 years but it's mosty (outside of Lindholm) the support players. Critical yes but replaceable via the farm or in FA. 

 

On top of that I thikn they have assets they can move. Dube likely has value, Hanifin has value, they've got prospects and picks. They are not asset rich by any means but they've got flexibility under the cap and they've got options to play around with to fill those holes and move salary around. 

 

I don't see this as a 2 year thing. 

 

 

 

 

While the new core will still be here after 2 years, you've got to believe they will start to decline in production.  We are not serious contenders if Huberdeau is a 75-point guy and Kadri declines into a 3rd line checking forward strictly.  I mean, unless the cap explodes upwards (hyperinflation)... Otherwise, that's a lot of money tied to two players past their primes.

 

[tmac70]

Love the adds but still when you look at this roster there is a piece still missing. I think Mags to the top line is fine but outside of him there is nothing. Kadri is going to require some wingers, Toffoli lacks speed but can shoot, Dube has speed but thats it. Maybe Ruzica is similar version to Nichuskin, but from all accounts has never played wing. Rodriugues would be a good add but another RW maybe with Kadri but whos your left winger, Dube kind of defeats the purpose. I like Dube as a player he just leaves you wanting more IMHO. Milano could be a choice but hes defensive play is what kills him, Flashy offensive guy lacks detials in the D side of things, could Sutter turn him around, is it worth a risk at an low cap hit? 

 

 

 

 

 

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I got the Hall fascination a few years ago but now I don't get it at all. Why do we want to tie up more money in a LS LW?

I can see I need to stop using names as examples in my analogies ..lol.. I wasn't targeting hall his was just a name that came to mind how we can get. $6m player for $3m .. I definitely wouldn't use a 2023 1st on him 

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

I guess I worded it poorly in my mentioning the 2 year window. It is 2 years with the current group as is. After 2 years, changes will occur for certain due to contracts which will potentially extend the window to 4 years. Depending on the moves made, and how various prospects turn out (Wolf for example) that window could even be bigger.

The Flames may be perennial contenders with the right moves. I am not psychic so I can only point out what is currently on the table.

 

Honestly it will be interesting to see what happens in Edmonton post McDavid. He is the big draw for Free Agents to play there. Without him, what is the pull? Calgary has shown the desire to always want to compete and will go after big targets to attain their goal. This is a draw for players who want to succeed.

 

 

 

When we're capped out so hard, yes it depends on the prospects because we probably can't add any star players from UFA for the next 7 years.  We need Coronato to score 40-G in 3 years.  Wolf to push Markstrom as the new starter and Vezina level goaltender.  One of Poirier or Kuznetsov to emerge as a new top pair LD.  And we need to hit a homerun in the late rounds like maybe Rory Kerins becomes our #1 Center point-per-game level. Etc, etc.  It could happen but needs all the planets to align.

[zima]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Love the adds but still when you look at this roster there is a piece still missing. I think Mags to the top line is fine but outside of him there is nothing. Kadri is going to require some wingers, Toffoli lacks speed but can shoot, Dube has speed but thats it. Maybe Ruzica is similar version to Nichuskin, but from all accounts has never played wing. Rodriugues would be a good add but another RW maybe with Kadri but whos your left winger, Dube kind of defeats the purpose. I like Dube as a player he just leaves you wanting more IMHO. Milano could be a choice but hes defensive play is what kills him, Flashy offensive guy lacks detials in the D side of things, could Sutter turn him around, is it worth a risk at an low cap hit? 

 

 

 

 

 

You know what I think doesn't matter what this team does you will never be satisfied. Only disappointment I have is losing Mony now that he is in full recovery we paid a team to take him off our hands I feel that was very disrespectful to hi9om and he will put up 30 goals this yr and we paid a team a1st plus gave them 30 extra goal for the season I would have rather paid to move Loooch and showed Mony we appreciate all he has done for us.  

[zima]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

When we're capped out so hard, yes it depends on the prospects because we probably can't add any star players from UFA for the next 7 years.  We need Coronato to score 40-G in 3 years.  Wolf to push Markstrom as the new starter and Vezina level goaltender.  One of Poirier or Kuznetsov to emerge as a new top pair LD.  And we need to hit a homerun in the late rounds like maybe Rory Kerins becomes our #1 Center point-per-game level. Etc, etc.  It could happen but needs all the planets to align.

If you are relying on Coronato your going to be disappointed I think he will sign in the US. As far as extra money I was under the impression that the cap will go up considerably?  Ohh and by the way I am more than happy to eat crow if Cor signs with us I highly doubt it but would be very happy if he does just to bad I won't be around to see if it takes a 4 yrs to happen. 

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, zima said:

If you are relying on Coronato your going to be disappointed I think he will sign in the US. As far as extra money I was under the impression that the cap will go up considerably?  Ohh and by the way I am more than happy to eat crow if Cor signs with us I highly doubt it but would be very happy if he does just to bad I won't be around to see if it takes a 4 yrs to happen. 

 

You won't be around in 4 years?