Playoffs GDT - FLAMES @ Oilers - Tues 24 May 2022

[conundrumed]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

It was supposed to be a waste of 8 days for the Oilers.  What happened?

Don't get too high, don't get too low.lol

We can win 3, just like they just did.

[The_People1]

27 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Move Tkacuk to Backlund?

 

 

Tkachuk is dragging down Gaudreau so, it's worth a try.  Would be great to have Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm... Gaudreau could be the play driver to feed Toffoli... but then they need a good Center to play big minutes.  Dube?  No.  Jarnkrok?  No.  Lewis?  No.  Ruzicka?  No.

[travel_dude]

Just now, conundrumed said:

I'm still oddly calm. Only caught the 30 minute replay this morn, games are just too late for my sked rn.

How bad was Kyl? The 30 min replay didn't reflect well. Does he sit next game or what? Him and Stone out with 3:30 left is a head-scratcher.

Move Tkacuk to Backlund?

Kyler away from Tanev was not good.

Kyler with Tanev was fine.

Only goal Kyler was out for was a poor play by the wingers.

And of course letting Nuge get the better of him.

That started by not recognizing the threa

 

I think that you have two guys playing really well with Backlund.

Tkachuk has been a non-factor on the top line.

I don't know if you want to just rely on him and Coleman, but it makes some sense.

Dube on the 3rd line wing is doing nothing positive this series.

Sutter is seeing all that, and I thought he would have used the blender.

But the come back didn't allow for that.

 

Top line is not getting inside positioning.

Bread can do that, but would that result in more or less chances.

A couple of options that could change things.  Desperate times.  LOL.

 

Option 1

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Gaudreau

Coleman-Backlund-Tkachuk

Dube-Jarnkrok-Toffoli

 

Option 2

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Coleman

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Dube-Jarnkrok-Toffoli

 

Option 3

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Mangiapane-Backlund-Tkachuk

Coleman-Jarnkrok-Dube

 

Only the 3rd option really changes all three lines.  Short of bringing in Rozie on the 3rd line and inserting Jarnkrok on the 4th line, there has to be some dressing down of the top line.

[rocketdoctor]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Think of me as the EBUG.

Emergency Back Up Goaltender.

It's just going to be the element of surprise that thwarts an Oilers victory.  

 

but do you drive a Zamboni?

[taz89]

Sutter would never do this, but I say bring in Wolf in goal....i bet the oilers would never expect that and gets in their head if he makes some big saves.  Can he be any worse than what we have right now? Replace Kylington with Valimaki.  Bring in Ruzcika....the current lineup is NOT WORKING no matter how you re-arrange the lines.  Hell, bring in Pelletier for a shot in the arm, i dunno..but some radical change is needed is what i am getting at.  You can start laughing at me or ban me now...🤐

[zima]

I thought for sure when I suggested bring in Wolf I would have been laughed at I think Marks is not playing a stelar game right now I don't understand what has happened to him. This is the last kick at the can we better make it happen and marks is not right now.

 

[Heartbreaker]

So, let me get this straight...

 

You fellas want to bring in a very young goaltender, who has ZERO NHL experience, but is the best goalie prospect that we've had maybe ever... and put him in against literally the best player in the world, a top 5 player in the world, and a couple of wingers that are eating our defence alive?

 

AND in order to do that, you need to take him out of his current league, where he is in the conference final, in a series up 2-0 in a best of five where he hasn't yet allowed a goal?

That sounds like:
a) a recipe for disaster

b) a really great way to ruin your best prospect

 

I mean, I get that the sky is falling, and the series will likely end on Saturday, but we've got to go with what got us here. You can't play an AHL team because the Oilers least expect it and expect to win. That's mailing in the season, Fellas. We need to have some pride in our team. Even when they lose. And, to make matters worse, even when they lose badly... to their provincial rivals... in Edmonton.

I'm going to set up bets with Jesse from Breaking Bad, Wayne Gretzky, and Auston Matthews about which of you guys is going to start the "BURN IT DOWN" thread.

 

Or maybe, there's still some hockey to be played. There's at least one more game, so I'm behind my boys until the buzzer sounds.

Love.

[sak22]

13 minutes ago, taz89 said:

Sutter would never do this, but I say bring in Wolf in goal....i bet the oilers would never expect that and gets in their head if he makes some big saves.  Can he be any worse than what we have right now? Replace Kylington with Valimaki.  Bring in Ruzcika....the current lineup is NOT WORKING no matter how you re-arrange the lines.  Hell, bring in Pelletier for a shot in the arm, i dunno..but some radical change is needed is what i am getting at.  You can start laughing at me or ban me now...🤐

Correction no coach would.  Good way to destroy 2 goalies confidence too.  Put in a goalie who has never in a regular season game in a do or die situation in front of the biggest crowd he's played in.  Also we are telling a goalie that we have signed for 4 more years at a significant cap hit that we don't believe in him.  This is the playoffs and it happens.  Kipper had bad series before, Fleury has had some stinkers, Roy, Vernon, Brodeur, Vasilevskiy, I honestly can't think of a goalie that's played in multiple series who hasn't, even the guy he's going against for the Vezina was pretty brutal last series falling down 3-1.  Lets see if Marky can bounce back, but this other goalie would be better crap is what we made fun of Edmonton fans for all year.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, zima said:

You guys think they can come back from a 2 game lose? I think the only way that happens is if we bring up Wolf Marks is not playing great hockey for some reason and without his stellar play we will lose he is the last line of defense and he is not playing great hockey. Now I'm not sure of the actual dangerous shot attempts but we did out shoot them last night but doesn't seem to matter . I would have never thought that smith could out play Marks.

 

Smith looks like crap most of the time that we drive play.  Juicy rebounds that we don't attack or miss out on.  3 goals that he should have stopped last night.  We are making it too easy on a goalie because we are not sustaining pressure or give him easy shots to feel the game.

 

Marky was fine in game 4.  Was okay in game 2, gave us enough without having to face two breakaways to finish out a tie game.  Maybe Sutter changes goalie to put it on the players on the ice to win it or a backup to steal one, but I think he knows we are that close to winning games.  It's all or nothing in game 5, so you go with the team that got you there.  Expect better.  Maybe tweak a few things, but the margin between success and failure is so thin.

 

The top line has done almost nothing this series.  The best line in hockey all season long is minus for this series.  Scored on 5v5, 4v4, 5v4.  Not scoring 5v5, 5v4 etc.  Tkachuk has been quiet for 10 out of 11 games and was only good in part of game 1 this series.      

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

So, let me get this straight...

 

You fellas want to bring in a very young goaltender, who has ZERO NHL experience, but is the best goalie prospect that we've had maybe ever... and put him in against literally the best player in the world, a top 5 player in the world, and a couple of wingers that are eating our defence alive?

 

AND in order to do that, you need to take him out of his current league, where he is in the conference final, in a series up 2-0 in a best of five where he hasn't yet allowed a goal?

That sounds like:
a) a recipe for disaster

b) a really great way to ruin your best prospect

 

I mean, I get that the sky is falling, and the series will likely end on Saturday, but we've got to go with what got us here. You can't play an AHL team because the Oilers least expect it and expect to win. That's mailing in the season, Fellas. We need to have some pride in our team. Even when they lose. And, to make matters worse, even when they lose badly... to their provincial rivals... in Edmonton.

I'm going to set up bets with Jesse from Breaking Bad, Wayne Gretzky, and Auston Matthews about which of you guys is going to start the "BURN IT DOWN" thread.

 

Or maybe, there's still some hockey to be played. There's at least one more game, so I'm behind my boys until the buzzer sounds.

Love.

 

Right on man.  You don't play Vladar right now.  You certainly don't play Wolf right now.  You go with your Vezina nominee who got you here.  Changing goalies right now is something Ward would do because he has no other good ideas.  You especially don't put an untested goalie for the rationale that it will "get in the head" of the opponent.  It will only take the best player in the NHL currently about two shifts to adjust to the new goalie and it's game over.   It's panic and over coaching to many degrees.

 

Sure, move Tkachuk with Backlund to confuse them or use 5 forwards on the PP.  Strategies that give you a different look but maintain the overall quality of skill, talent, and experience on the ice.  When it all comes down to it, Markstrom needs to steal at least one game in this series for us to have a chance to win 3 straight.  He's capable of that.  He just has to do it.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Right on man.  You don't play Vladar right now.  You certainly don't play Wolf right now.  You go with your Vezina nominee who got you here.  Changing goalies right now is something Ward would do because he has no other good ideas.  You especially don't put an untested goalie for the rationale that it will "get in the head" of the opponent.  It will only take the best player in the NHL currently about two shifts to adjust to the new goalie and it's game over.   It's panic and over coaching to many degrees.

 

Sure, move Tkachuk with Backlund to confuse them or use 5 forwards on the PP.  Strategies that give you a different look but maintain the overall quality of skill, talent, and experience on the ice.  When it all comes down to it, Markstrom needs to steal at least one game in this series for us to have a chance to win 3 straight.  He's capable of that.  He just has to do it.

We have had more than enough chances on the PP to have a bunch of goals.

It looks stale at times.  And not really sure of the rationale of using Hanifin on PP1.

Nor am I convinced that you have even a second unit.

 

We have a set play on the PP1, which is use someone behind the net to Lindholm in the slot.

Okay, great, except when that is not free.

Diagonal from the left point to the right circle has a RHS, so too much time to set up.

The Oiler use cross crease and blast from the point, with a battle for the rebound.

Our option is a LHS wrister from 50 feet.

Too easy to freeze it.

 

The PP has looked stale for the last month.  No point in loading up with the best players if they are not scoring at 5v5.  Try some new looks and have a PP2 that doesn't just kill the clock.  Backlund is a possession beast, but has little options.  He gives up and just wrists it at times.  

 

An alt setup for the two units.  

 

PP1

Lucic

Mangiapane-Lindy-JH

Ras

 

PP2

Coleman

Toffoli-Backlund-Tkachuk

Kylington (or Hanifin)

 

We sacrifice Tkachuk to the 2nd unit.  It puts off wingers on both sides to get the quick shot.

On PP1, it has to be a guy in the face of Smith that doesn't get boxed out.  His possession helps a bit.

We lose a bit of the back and forth behind the net, but free up a couple of gamers.  Coleman really

get in the face of goalies and is at home there.  Substitute Lucic with Lewis if needed.  That might make

more sense to have a 2nd C out there.  

 

[phoenix66]

3 hours ago, zima said:

You guys think they can come back from a 2 game lose? I think the only way that happens is if we bring up Wolf Marks is not playing great hockey for some reason and without his stellar play we will lose he is the last line of defense and he is not playing great hockey. Now I'm not sure of the actual dangerous shot attempts but we did out shoot them last night but doesn't seem to matter . I would have never thought that smith could out play Marks.

I truly do.. coming home we can limit Tanev to where we really need him . Basically anytime Conner is on the ice .. the basis of how we played last night is how we need to play ..

We win game 5, Oilers are gonna feel some pressure to end it in game 6.. pressure makes mistakes ..just have to not make them ourselves ..

Game 7 ..crapshoot but winnable absolutely..

 

 

[cross16]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It was supposed to be a waste of 8 days for the Oilers.  What happened?

 

Well that was fans being overconfident IMO. While many picked the Flames to win I think it was always going to be a tight series. What did we not bank on?

- Markstrom playing poorly

- McDavid going to yet another level 

- Both of those 2 things throwing the Flames off their game

- Tanev not playing

 

People underrated the Oilers 5 on 5 game going into this series. They made some serious strides in that area since the hired Woodcroft and you've seen it in this series. They are very well prepared for what the Flames are doing and IMO have exposed the Flames weaknesses. I think that getting exposed has put them on their heels and now they are playing a different game, what we saw last night, that relies on very good to great goaltending and they did not get that last night. 

[phoenix66]

Just a little History Reminder .. 

last BOA 1991

Flames down 3 games to 1

 

Fleury scored in game 6 OT to send it to game 7

( where we led 3-0 after 1 ) but lost in OT game 7 

we can do this again !   with hopefully a different end result 

 

[robrob74]

What if we went:

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Backlund, Tkachuk

Coleman, Jarnkrok, Dube

Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie

 

who knew Ritchie would be one of the higher scorers of this series for the Flames?

 

The Backlund line has been going so well, but I wonder if this set up for a bit can generate more depth scoring?

[rickross]

Rumour has it Kane might miss this game due to birth of his child.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, rickross said:

Rumour has it Kane might miss this game due to birth of his child.

 

Media is suggesting that he will be playing tonight.  That doesn't surprise me.  Such a class act.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

30 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

What if we went:

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Backlund, Tkachuk

Coleman, Jarnkrok, Dube

Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie

 

who knew Ritchie would be one of the higher scorers of this series for the Flames?

 

The Backlund line has been going so well, but I wonder if this set up for a bit can generate more depth scoring?

Ritchies goals were more good timing as opposed to good skill. Tanev is still far from 100%, the loss of Ritchie for 7 minutes is offset by being able to match Tanev against the Oilers top line. I would run 11 - 7 again.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

What if we went:

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Backlund, Tkachuk

Coleman, Jarnkrok, Dube

Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie

 

who knew Ritchie would be one of the higher scorers of this series for the Flames?

 

The Backlund line has been going so well, but I wonder if this set up for a bit can generate more depth scoring?

 

If it wasn't a BOA game, I would take Lucic out of the lineup.

Too many goals against on his watch.

Alternately, you have to sit Lucic.

You can shorten the bench and get Lewis out there with 2 other guys to switch things up.

 

For sure have to go 11-7 if Tanev is available.

If you are not changing the top line (at home they were both good and bad), then double shift them

Gaudreau or Tkachuk with Coleman and Backlund.

Tkachuk or Gaudreau with Jarny and Toffoli.

 

Not using the shooters where they can get shots.

Unless Dube comes on strong, consider stapling him to the bench.

Nothing against him, but he's doing little offensively out there.

Good on the cycle until he gets crushed.

Good on the break until he enters the zone and gets crushed.

I get that he's a N/S player, but the boards are not his friend.

 

[flames for life]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If it wasn't a BOA game, I would take Lucic out of the lineup.

Too many goals against on his watch.

Alternately, you have to sit Lucic.

You can shorten the bench and get Lewis out there with 2 other guys to switch things up.

 

For sure have to go 11-7 if Tanev is available.

If you are not changing the top line (at home they were both good and bad), then double shift them

Gaudreau or Tkachuk with Coleman and Backlund.

Tkachuk or Gaudreau with Jarny and Toffoli.

 

Not using the shooters where they can get shots.

Unless Dube comes on strong, consider stapling him to the bench.

Nothing against him, but he's doing little offensively out there.

Good on the cycle until he gets crushed.

Good on the break until he enters the zone and gets crushed.

I get that he's a N/S player, but the boards are not his friend.

 

I wouldn’t sit Lucic, I’d have him play HIS game.  How many hits has he had?  One notable disruption on Smith.  That’s pretty much it.  His line was far more noticeable in the Dallas series, creating annoyance and, dare I say it, trepidation!  When players start to hesitate their moves, that becomes our advantage.  That can include McDavid, people!!  Do we think he would be willing to do his “spinnerama” move if a player was there to knock his -ss onto the ice?  Calgary did a better job on him last game, but still not as well as they did during the season.

Toffoli should be no where near the top 2 lines!  If anyone plays up, it should be Mangie on line 1, or possibly even Dube.  Dube’s speed may benefit with Gaudreau’s accuracy and allow our cycle to become faster.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, flames for life said:

I wouldn’t sit Lucic, I’d have him play HIS game.  How many hits has he had?  One notable disruption on Smith.  That’s pretty much it.  His line was far more noticeable in the Dallas series, creating annoyance and, dare I say it, trepidation!  When players start to hesitate their moves, that becomes our advantage.  That can include McDavid, people!!  Do we think he would be willing to do his “spinnerama” move if a player was there to knock his -ss onto the ice?  Calgary did a better job on him last game, but still not as well as they did during the season.

Toffoli should be no where near the top 2 lines!  If anyone plays up, it should be Mangie on line 1, or possibly even Dube.  Dube’s speed may benefit with Gaudreau’s accuracy and allow our cycle to become faster.

 

Lucic was effective in game 1.  Laid out McD, as did Zaddy.

But we were lucky in that game that McD didn't get out of the zone with Lucic on the ice.

We have last change, as yeah I know Sutter doesn't line match, but let's be honest.

The 4th line gets caved in with McD out there.

Almost every line actually.

Was less skill in the Dallas series.

 

Lucic has a role, but he has to limit his play to it.

Forechecking and hard hits.

I don't expect more.

Get someone out there with him that benefits from a heavy forecheck and possession.

Dube didn't seem to be thee right choice.

 

IMHO, you have to exploit Toffoli's shooting.

He's not getting the puck at all.