The Re-signing Thread

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

When your top line makes a combined 18 million dollars I think you can afford to have a bottom pairing pulling in $5.5. When that same top line is probably going to cost at least another 5-6 million next year you lose the luxury of having a bottom pairing be that expensive. 

 

Reality is that both Z and Gudbranson are very likely gone unless they are willing to play on discounts. 

 

I am hoping that Guddy is back, but like you I hope it's in the $2m range.

Don't know if that's reasonable or not.

His career had gone sideways before coming here.

He's 30, so not young.

Zaddy is okay, and has looked better over the course of the season.

Wasn't worth his salary to start.

Still young but I don't know any way we can afford him.

$2m is about all we could afford.

And that's stretching it with Valimaki needing waivers.

[conundrumed]

What I'm wondering is Kylington. Should we try to go long? Or a 1 yr, or something like Dube's? Do we need him to prove more?

[sak22]

27 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

What I'm wondering is Kylington. Should we try to go long? Or a 1 yr, or something like Dube's? Do we need him to prove more?

I think I'm in the 1 year camp.  Wasn't long ago this guy could've been had for free, even Seattle could've taken him.  I don't doubt he can repeat on a one way, but I don't think there is a significant leap from him to make it foolish not to go with term now.  I don't really see a difference in value if you go long term this summer vs. next, the main difference is with a prove it deal you should get over a million and a half over what it would cost for long term, next summer Monahan and Lucic are both up and moving Backlund with one year left may be easier to move.

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

What I'm wondering is Kylington. Should we try to go long? Or a 1 yr, or something like Dube's? Do we need him to prove more?

 

I think it will come down to some kind of bridge deal, much like we did with Brodie.

Not because I want that, but because that's what we can afford.

 

I don't know that we need to see more of Kylington to know what he is.

The questions about his game have pretty much been removed.

Overall, I think he plays pretty much the same game as his other seasons.

The difference is that he's cleaned up the bad stuff.

Just my opinion, but I think he improves on offense in the future.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

What I'm wondering is Kylington. Should we try to go long? Or a 1 yr, or something like Dube's? Do we need him to prove more?

 

I don't mind trying term but it would have to be a wicked deal for the Flames. I don't think, mostly due to the cap, that it makes sense to find a fair long term deal it would only make sense if he wants to give you a bit of a deal on the AAV. Not suggestion he should do this but if your the Flames it doesn't hurt to ask but unless they are wiling to move our either Gaudreau or Tkachuk I just don't see a scenario where they can give him a fair long term AAV. 

 

For multiple reasons I think 1 year makes sense. i don't want to sound harsh because he's been a great story but I'm still not a believer he is making the difference some think he is. I think he's still playing well don't get me wrong but I think he's cooled off from the start he had and I chalk up a lot of the success to Chris Tanev. I think that pairing is really what helped Kylington find his game and Tanev is the perfect compliment to Kylington's style. 

 

So long story short I don't really see the benefit to the Flames going term unless they get a deal and if I were Kyliington I wouldn't want to give them a deal so I'm not seeing how they get middle ground. if he's willing to sign for under 4 on term I'd be wiling but I think he bets on himself so 1 year should work well for both sides. I don't personally think this turns into a situation where the Flames would get burned by not offering up a longer term deal. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

When your top line makes a combined 18 million dollars I think you can afford to have a bottom pairing pulling in $5.5. When that same top line is probably going to cost at least another 5-6 million next year you lose the luxury of having a bottom pairing be that expensive. 

 

Reality is that both Z and Gudbranson are very likely gone unless they are willing to play on discounts. 

 

if Gudbranson can be signed for a touch less, i would be willing to do that? Maybe a 1.5m or 2 might be ok? I think he’s been a breath of fresh air. He has admitted that this was a refresh in his career and that he was worried about getting a contract. I don’t mean to hold that against him in terms of what he is worth. I just think that he’s not a 4m guy and I think he’d understand that. 
 

maybe you pay him in relation to what Engelland got?

[cross16]

24 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

if Gudbranson can be signed for a touch less, i would be willing to do that? Maybe a 1.5m or 2 might be ok? I think he’s been a breath of fresh air. He has admitted that this was a refresh in his career and that he was worried about getting a contract. I don’t mean to hold that against him in terms of what he is worth. I just think that he’s not a 4m guy and I think he’d understand that. 
 

maybe you pay him in relation to what Engelland got?

 

Unless they are planning on moving out a couple big salaries it's all they are going to be able to afford. I'm not sure they can even bring him back at 1.5 unless the numbers on Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Mang and Kylington come in much lower than expected. 

 

I mean good on Gudbranson for having a career year and proving many (including myself) wrong but in the end this isn't a hard decision for me. You've had a player who for the vast majority of his career hasn't been very good and now you have him performing a career year at the age of 30 in the midst of a career year for many on the team. I think the Flames would be making a huge mistake tying to prioritize Gudbranson.

 

I think it's a situation where if there is mutual interest you see what is left over and see if a deal can be had but there are other priorities to take care of. 

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Unless they are planning on moving out a couple big salaries it's all they are going to be able to afford. I'm not sure they can even bring him back at 1.5 unless the numbers on Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Mang and Kylington come in much lower than expected. 

 

I mean good on Gudbranson for having a career year and proving many (including myself) wrong but in the end this isn't a hard decision for me. You've had a player who for the vast majority of his career hasn't been very good and now you have him performing a career year at the age of 30 in the midst of a career year for many on the team. I think the Flames would be making a huge mistake tying to prioritize Gudbranson.

 

I think it's a situation where if there is mutual interest you see what is left over and see if a deal can be had but there are other priorities to take care of. 

 

I agree on proving wrong, me too!
 

i wonder how much of his career was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Has he ever been given a role to play to his strengths.

 

maybe he has never really been a Top4 and had been overrated. 

[JTech780]

Gaudreau 8x$10.5m

Tkachuk 8x$10m

Mangiapane 5x$5m

Kylington 1x$2.75m

Lewis 1x$800k

 

I would like to bring back Zadorov and Gudbranson but I don't see how that will work. Sutter turned both of their careers around, and I think he could probably do it with other similar defensemen that would be cheaper. Plus we have Valimaki and Mackey who will be pushing for regular playing time next year.

 

I think Ritchie and Richardson both walk, I could see us bringing Lewis back for another year at league minimum,.

[robrob74]

How much is a 40goal scorer worth? 
 

i guess Mangiapane doesn’t get a lot of assists so that helps keep his money down? 

[LouCifer]

Gudbranson has jumped around a bit. Maybe he’ll stick around for a team friendly price if there’s some term. I like the fit. We more than likely lose Zad ($3.75m). Monahan should not be on this team next season ($6m). Brouwer’s $1.5m comes off the books as well. That’s over $11m in cap space freed up. 
 

On the cheap, we keep Dube and he slots into 3C. Ruzie as 4C. Valimaki comes up. Kyller signs for 1 or 2 years. Lucic’s current contract expires at the end of next season and he re-signs with a team-friendly deal. 

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Gudbranson has jumped around a bit. Maybe he’ll stick around for a team friendly price if there’s some term. I like the fit. We more than likely lose Zad ($3.75m). Monahan should not be on this team next season ($6m). Brouwer’s $1.5m comes off the books as well. That’s over $11m in cap space freed up. 
 

On the cheap, we keep Dube and he slots into 3C. Ruzie as 4C. Valimaki comes up. Kyller signs for 1 or 2 years. Lucic’s current contract expires at the end of next season and he re-signs with a team-friendly deal. 

 

While I understand that one of Lucic, Monahan or Backlund probably has to sacrificed to pay Johnny/Matty/Andy/Shilly, only Lucic occupies a position that is somewhat redundant.  Dube has yet to solidify himself as a C.  Monahan is the 3rd best C overall.  Ruzie may be able to jump up to fill a void, but not ideal.  Not quite yet.  That isn't improving the team, that is treading water with a weight belt.

 

Some decisions have to be made.

Do we sacrifice Monahan or Backlund to maintain the rest of the team.

Do we use Dube and Backlund (or Monahan) to bring in a cheaper 2C and fill the other void with Pelletier.

Do we send Lucic to another team after paying his SB?  Cap savings for us and he makes $1m actual elsewhere.

Can we afford Guddy and Valimaki.

 

Thanks there Conumdrumed for giving us all headaches about the cap when we are in the middle of going for it.  😅

[sak22]

With Gudbranson, he has exceeded expectations and been a solid 3rd pairing guy.  Is it a case of a late-bloomer or a result of Sutter and limited expectations.  If the price is too high I think they are better rolling the dice and trying to find another underachiever with the same physical tools.  I just trust Sutter without Gudbranson a lot more than I do Gudbranson without Sutter, I don't think Sutter is committing past next season so I don't know if committing to Gudbranson past Sutter is a good idea at the moment.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Unless they are planning on moving out a couple big salaries it's all they are going to be able to afford. I'm not sure they can even bring him back at 1.5 unless the numbers on Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Mang and Kylington come in much lower than expected. 

 

I mean good on Gudbranson for having a career year and proving many (including myself) wrong but in the end this isn't a hard decision for me. You've had a player who for the vast majority of his career hasn't been very good and now you have him performing a career year at the age of 30 in the midst of a career year for many on the team. I think the Flames would be making a huge mistake tying to prioritize Gudbranson.

 

I think it's a situation where if there is mutual interest you see what is left over and see if a deal can be had but there are other priorities to take care of. 

 

 

I wouldn't prioritize Gudbranson either but I think we have $3.5-mil x 3 for him.  That's basically Zadorov's money and Valimaki replaces Zadorov next season.  Just shifting bodies around while keeping our overall D cap the same as this season.

 

I guess the question could become, do we move earth and sky to keep Monahan at $6.35-mil and then find two new D at $1.5-mil for the bottom pair?  

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

While I understand that one of Lucic, Monahan or Backlund probably has to sacrificed to pay Johnny/Matty/Andy/Shilly, only Lucic occupies a position that is somewhat redundant.  Dube has yet to solidify himself as a C.  Monahan is the 3rd best C overall.  Ruzie may be able to jump up to fill a void, but not ideal.  Not quite yet.  That isn't improving the team, that is treading water with a weight belt.

 

Some decisions have to be made.

Do we sacrifice Monahan or Backlund to maintain the rest of the team.

Do we use Dube and Backlund (or Monahan) to bring in a cheaper 2C and fill the other void with Pelletier.

Do we send Lucic to another team after paying his SB?  Cap savings for us and he makes $1m actual elsewhere.

Can we afford Guddy and Valimaki.

 

Thanks there Conumdrumed for giving us all headaches about the cap when we are in the middle of going for it.  😅

I think the situation that we are in is basically going to be like treading water unless there’s some clean up. Of course we don’t know what deals are to be made (signings, trades or buyouts).

 

will Monahan return to form. Is There a player that can replace Backlund and who would be willing to take his contract on? 
 

are there C FA that can replace Monahan if we decide those routes? And is it worth it, especially if the only option is to buy any of them out? 

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

I wouldn't prioritize Gudbranson either but I think we have $3.5-mil x 3 for him.  That's basically Zadorov's money and Valimaki replaces Zadorov next season.  Just shifting bodies around while keeping our overall D cap the same as this season.

 

I guess the question could become, do we move earth and sky to keep Monahan at $6.35-mil and then find two new D at $1.5-mil for the bottom pair?  

 

are we ok with a bottom pair D who might not be quite at league level. The strength of the D this year is that the Top4 isn’t being overly taxed due to the ability to role the pairs as needed. 
 

i go Gudbranson at 1.75 and Valamaki at his salary. The Top4 is all reasonably priced. 
 

maybe we have to buy out both Monahan and Lucic? Can you then re-sign Lucic at a cap friendly deal that works? I haven’t done the math, but could they buy him out and then sign him to 1m…. I guess it is still a bit of savings?

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

maybe we have to buy out both Monahan and Lucic? Can you then re-sign Lucic at a cap friendly deal that works? I haven’t done the math, but could they buy him out and then sign him to 1m…. I guess it is still a bit of savings?

 

Lucic's contract is bulletproof.

If you buy it out, we are still stuck with about $4.6m cap hit.

EDM gets stuck with $660k this year as well.

Next year it isn't as bad.

 

The thing about Lucic is his signing bonus is due in July.

His actual salary next season is $1m.

It's a great deal for a cap floor team.

If Lucic wouldn't mind a year in Arizona.

[JTech780]

The thing with Lucic is that he has a role on this team, and he plays that role very well. He is overpriced for that role, there is no doubt about that, but he has a role.

 

Monahan is the likely buyout candidate if we can't find a taker for him. Monahan doesn't have a clear role and now that Toffoli took his spot on the top PP, his role becomes even less clear.

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

are we ok with a bottom pair D who might not be quite at league level. The strength of the D this year is that the Top4 isn’t being overly taxed due to the ability to role the pairs as needed. 
 

i go Gudbranson at 1.75 and Valamaki at his salary. The Top4 is all reasonably priced. 
 

maybe we have to buy out both Monahan and Lucic? Can you then re-sign Lucic at a cap friendly deal that works? I haven’t done the math, but could they buy him out and then sign him to 1m…. I guess it is still a bit of savings?

 

Unlike most teams, we don't have that one stud D who costs us over $7-mil so thus, we should be able to afford a bottom pair D at $4-mil... of course I hope Gudbranson would stay for $3-mil x 3 or even lower.  Valimaki - Gudbranson pairing doesn't break the bank as a 4th pair considering Hanifin-Andersson is an affordable top pair.  But if Gudbranson can get over $4-mil on the open market then we can't bring him back.  It's just too much.

 

Gudbranson has proved he can play 20-minutes a night and be dependable on the PK.  Plus he fights and defends his goalie.  I'm afraid someone will give him $4-mil... after all, RHS RD, second pairing, 6'-5"... so here's hoping he has built a good working relationship with Sutter and loves the city of Calgary and would like to stay for the next 3 years.

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, JTech780 said:

The thing with Lucic is that he has a role on this team, and he plays that role very well. He is overpriced for that role, there is no doubt about that, but he has a role.

 

Monahan is the likely buyout candidate if we can't find a taker for him. Monahan doesn't have a clear role and now that Toffoli took his spot on the top PP, his role becomes even less clear.

 

100%.  Lucic is still useful (to everyone's surprise).  We thought he'd decline to the point of retirement by now but no, he's still getting it done.  The guy's one of the best conditioned players on the team and has one of the best work ethics.  Absolute veteran leader.

 

Monahan, admittedly he's playing better now and the Lucic - Monahan - Toffoli line could save his career.  Let's see how it goes from here.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

100%.  Lucic is still useful (to everyone's surprise).  We thought he'd decline to the point of retirement by now but no, he's still getting it done.  The guy's one of the best conditioned players on the team and has one of the best work ethics.  Absolute veteran leader.

 

Monahan, admittedly he's playing better now and the Lucic - Monahan - Toffoli line could save his career.  Let's see how it goes from here.

As a 4th liner. Need Dube back with Mony-Toffoli. Those 2 are slow enough without adding Lucic.

Back to Lucic-Ruzicka-Lewis.

That's our 4th line. Richardson is too small and Ritchie is too void of any offence whatsoever. The on-the-fly line changes that put JG on the ice with Ritchie are laughable.

I believe Rozie's potted 2 while caught out with JG and MT.

[phoenix66]

I believe Gubrandson is back on a good contract just based on he's finally found a fit. If there's a candidate for a hometown discount he's it..

 

Mangiapane is gonna get paid.. I don't see it being under 6, ..and that's only on a 7-8 year deal 

 

I see no scenario where Monahan is on this team next year..and unless we win the cup it's gonna really suck but they have to find a way to lose Lucic's contract if they don't want to be forced to lose a top player .. if we win it all he might just retire anyway 

 

Either way..offseason is gonna be a very interesting one to watch 

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I believe Gubrandson is back on a good contract just based on he's finally found a fit. If there's a candidate for a hometown discount he's it..

 

Mangiapane is gonna get paid.. I don't see it being under 6, ..and that's only on a 7-8 year deal 

 

I see no scenario where Monahan is on this team next year..and unless we win the cup it's gonna really suck but they have to find a way to lose Lucic's contract if they don't want to be forced to lose a top player .. if we win it all he might just retire anyway 

 

Either way..offseason is gonna be a very interesting one to watch 

I really have to agree with the bolded. I know it's a short career and you want to capitalize on your earnings, but it's also are you happy or are you under constant criticism? Both him and Z are in a place where they are rock stars. That can't be overlooked. Have a good investment strategy.lol

Mangia will be painful. Give him his arb, take the year. I'd top out at about $5.4 if DeBrincat is $6.4.

Lucic's last year definitely needs to be addressed. If Pelletier has a killer off-season training, suddenly you can't make him go away.

A LW spot will need to open up. Based on Pelletier's history of jumping leagues.

Mony could be traded at the draft table. Does a 2nd and Mony recoup a 1st?

Then we still need a replacement strategy. So I'm not so sure the whole "buyout candidate" is viable.

[phoenix66]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I really have to agree with the bolded. I know it's a short career and you want to capitalize on your earnings, but it's also are you happy or are you under constant criticism? Both him and Z are in a place where they are rock stars. That can't be overlooked. Have a good investment strategy.lol

Mangia will be painful. Give him his arb, take the year. I'd top out at about $5.4 if DeBrincat is $6.4.

Lucic's last year definitely needs to be addressed. If Pelletier has a killer off-season training, suddenly you can't make him go away.

A LW spot will need to open up. Based on Pelletier's history of jumping leagues.

Mony could be traded at the draft table. Does a 2nd and Mony recoup a 1st?

Then we still need a replacement strategy. So I'm not so sure the whole "buyout candidate" is viable.

I believe mony Is tradeable .. won't need a buyout..may have to do the asset to take the contract , but either way he's tradeable ..

A team like Seattle might give you decent picks and player ..cuz they can certainly redoup a first at tdl..  Arizona is gonna have floor issues 

Lucic is interesting.. if he goes you need a player like him ..  I wonder what the rule is on trading a player to be bought out and then resigning him? We already know you can resign your own buyout .. getting him back at a better number would be a win 

I would put Mangiapane ahead of Debrincat..

Mange is doing at all with no special teams , no first line minutes and mostly 5x5...  I said for years if to could merge Johnny and mange into one player you'd have a super stud..  now suddenly Johnny is playing with Mangiapane grit and mange is just doing what he does .. he doesn't have Johnny's skill but I bet if you have him Johnny's spot and minutes he'd have twice the points that he does now  ..I say $6.5 minimum 

[cross16]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

I wouldn't prioritize Gudbranson either but I think we have $3.5-mil x 3 for him.  That's basically Zadorov's money and Valimaki replaces Zadorov next season.  Just shifting bodies around while keeping our overall D cap the same as this season.

 

I guess the question could become, do we move earth and sky to keep Monahan at $6.35-mil and then find two new D at $1.5-mil for the bottom pair?  

 

I don't think they do, that money isn't needed to Gudbranson it's to sign everyone else. The Flames have options here but it is very tight for next season. 

 

Gaudreau (9.5) Lindholm (4.85) Tkachuk (9)

Mang (5.4) Backs (5.35) Coleman (4.9)

Lucic ( 5.25) Monahan (6.3) Toffoli (4.25)

Dube (2.3) ???   ????

 

Hanifin (4.95) Andersson (4.55)

Kyl (2.75) Tanev (4.5)

Valimaki (1.55) ???

 

Goalies 6.75

 

That team counts 82.15mill and the cap is projected to be 82.5 and I think that's with me being conservative on what contracts will be. Buying out Monahan opens up 4 million but you need 2.5 to 3 just to complete that team so that is spoken for. Not to mention buying out Monahan leaves a gap down the middle so who fills that?

 

I don't really see a scenario where the Flames can a pay a bottom pairing dman more than 2 mill. Your moving out a pretty sizable salary (in addition to Monahan) in order to do that.