The Re-signing Thread

[conundrumed]

So happy I didn't call it the resigning thread.

Johnny - 8 x $10 front loaded.

Tkachuk extended by 8 x $8.8

Mangiapane 5 x $5.25

Kyl 5 x $4.85

 

Am I out to lunch?

[CheersMan]

15 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So happy I didn't call it the resigning thread.

Johnny - 8 x $10 front loaded.

Tkachuk extended by 8 x $8.8

Mangiapane 5 x $5.25

Kyl 5 x $4.85

 

Am I out to lunch?

Lunch break is over. We got to fit Gudbranson in there somewhere too.

[cross16]

The only one I would question is Kylington. i will be very surprised if the Flames go term on him. I think they go for a 1 year deal to save some cap space and also to see is he can do this again. With 2 year to UFA I don't see the rush in getting him on a long term deal personally. 

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So happy I didn't call it the resigning thread.

Johnny - 8 x $10 front loaded.

Tkachuk extended by 8 x $8.8

Mangiapane 5 x $5.25

Kyl 5 x $4.85

 

Am I out to lunch?

 

You aren't but the cap is unrealistic.

With 10F, 4D, 2G, we are $86m.

Think I did it right.

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

The only one I would question is Kylington. i will be very surprised if the Flames go term on him. I think they go for a 1 year deal to save some cap space and also to see is he can do this again. With 2 year to UFA I don't see the rush in getting him on a long term deal personally. 

 

He has played well enough to give him a decent raise.

The problem I see is that he is arbitration eligible, so he will see a significant award.

 

The two solutions are Lucic and Monahan, at least maybe the least impact.

Lucic is $4m actual after SB is paid.

Monahan has one year left and maybe harder to move unless a team needs to hit the cap floor.

Maybe Seattle could use him, since they are a wasteland.

 

The other option is Backlund.

Loss of his defensive game hurts us more, but he has known value in the NHL.

 

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

i would be suprised if they keep gubranson and zudorov cause if it means getting the core signed they will and Pat steinberg has said it they may refuse to resign them

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

i would be suprised if they keep gubranson and zudorov cause if it means getting the core signed they will and Pat steinberg has said it they may refuse to resign them

 

Well, the alternative is we sign a UFA for more money.

Guddy is more of a core guy for me than Pat's idea.

Short term for around $2m.

Zaddy is more difficult to re-sign; younger and is already making close to $4m.  

If we could get him for 2-3 years at $2.5, that would be ideal, but hard to do if you pay more to Shilly. 

This is the last year where we can hide Valimaki in the AHL.

Has to go through waivers next year.

 

We can probably survive without Zaddy, but we need to keep toughness.

Ritchie isn't enough.

[sak22]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

He has played well enough to give him a decent raise.

The problem I see is that he is arbitration eligible, so he will see a significant award.

 

The two solutions are Lucic and Monahan, at least maybe the least impact.

Lucic is $4m actual after SB is paid.

Monahan has one year left and maybe harder to move unless a team needs to hit the cap floor.

Maybe Seattle could use him, since they are a wasteland.

 

The other option is Backlund.

Loss of his defensive game hurts us more, but he has known value in the NHL.

 

 

Lucic buyout this summer does nothing, it saves $666,667 in cap space.  Don't see Lucic as a casualty this year.

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Lucic buyout this summer does nothing, it saves $666,667 in cap space.  Don't see Lucic as a casualty this year.

 

I was talking about a trade.

Some teams really suffer from being pushovers.

And their young stars have no protection.

 

I would suggest that there are at least 5 teams that would be interested in a player like that.

[sak22]

26 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was talking about a trade.

Some teams really suffer from being pushovers.

And their young stars have no protection.

 

I would suggest that there are at least 5 teams that would be interested in a player like that.

And he can block 10

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

He has played well enough to give him a decent raise.

The problem I see is that he is arbitration eligible, so he will see a significant award.

 

Oh he will get a big raise for sure. I'm thinking between 2.5 mill to 3. 

 

Have a hard time seeing him get more than that though in arbitration. It's a big raise but I still think it beats going north of 4 on a long term deal. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So happy I didn't call it the resigning thread.

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Lunch break is over. We got to fit Gudbranson in there somewhere too.

 

1 hour ago, The_Snowbear said:

i would be suprised if they keep gubranson and zudorov cause if it means getting the core signed they will and Pat steinberg has said it they may refuse to resign them

 

Give Zadorov's money to Gudbranson and then give Gudbranson's money to Valimaki.  Next year go with Valimaki - Gudbranson as the 3rd pair. Zadorov is gone.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

The only one I would question is Kylington. i will be very surprised if the Flames go term on him. I think they go for a 1 year deal to save some cap space and also to see is he can do this again. With 2 year to UFA I don't see the rush in getting him on a long term deal personally. 

 

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

He has played well enough to give him a decent raise.

The problem I see is that he is arbitration eligible, so he will see a significant award.

 

I'm okay with a one year extension because that leaves room for Valimaki to challenge Kylington for top 4 minutes.  I agree, get Kylington signed to $3-mil for one year and then see if he can repeat this season's success.  If so, then give him the term and money.  He's a great player but I don't see a scenario where Kylington puts on a Norris-level performance next season and then demands $7-mil+.  Doing a one year deal is safe.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So happy I didn't call it the resigning thread.

Johnny - 8 x $10 front loaded.

Tkachuk extended by 8 x $8.8

Mangiapane 5 x $5.25

Kyl 5 x $4.85

 

Am I out to lunch?

 

Johnny - 8 x $10.5

Tkachuk - 8 x $9.5

Mangiapane - 5 x $6

Kylington - 1 x $3

Gudbranson - 3 x $4

 

Zadorov and Monahan gone.  We also get Troy Brouwer's $1.5-mil off the books next year.

 

 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Give Zadorov's money to Gudbranson and then give Gudbranson's money to Valimaki.  Next year go with Valimaki - Gudbranson as the 3rd pair. Zadorov is gone.

 

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

I'm okay with a one year extension because that leaves room for Valimaki to challenge Kylington for top 4 minutes.  I agree, get Kylington signed to $3-mil for one year and then see if he can repeat this season's success.  If so, then give him the term and money.  He's a great player but I don't see a scenario where Kylington puts on a Norris-level performance next season and then demands $7-mil+.  Doing a one year deal is safe.

 

First off, Valimaki isn't currently counted in the cap for next year, even in my calcs.

Vali for Zaddy says about $2m if Zaddy cost the exact same as this year.

 

I'm not sure where the $3m comes from.

Graves signed for 3 year @ $3.166m in 2020 instead of arbitration

Weegar signed for 3 years @ $3.25m (same as Graves).

Those guy had similar production to Kylington, well actually less.

I hevn't looked too hard into similar ones that actually went to award.

[cross16]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

First off, Valimaki isn't currently counted in the cap for next year, even in my calcs.

Vali for Zaddy says about $2m if Zaddy cost the exact same as this year.

 

I'm not sure where the $3m comes from.

Graves signed for 3 year @ $3.166m in 2020 instead of arbitration

Weegar signed for 3 years @ $3.25m (same as Graves).

Those guy had similar production to Kylington, well actually less.

I hevn't looked too hard into similar ones that actually went to award.

 

Because no Dman has in 2 years. Last player to settle in arbitration was Tyler Bertuzzi in 2020. 

 

It's pretty hard to find a direct comparable because last season Kylington had no case and was on waivers. He is popping this year so to find a direct comparison over the last 2 years is tough. He's pretty comparable to Weegar, Gustav Forsling, Graves with Forsling being maybe his best comp. The most common numbers are 3.1 to 3.7 but in most cases you see more duration over the career than you see with Kylington. Both were in sort of in and out of the lineup for multiple seasons and then found traction. In a shortened seasons last year Forsling numbers are really close to what Kylington has done so far this year. He got 2.6 over 3 years. 

 

I'm not really seeing the comps that can support Kylington getting more than 3mill on a 1 year deal. 

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Johnny - 8 x $10.5

Tkachuk - 8 x $9.5

Mangiapane - 5 x $6

Kylington - 1 x $3

Gudbranson - 3 x $4

 

Zadorov and Monahan gone.  We also get Troy Brouwer's $1.5-mil off the books next year.

 

 

I’d rather keep Monahan…move Backlund for pick/prospect to flip? And move Dube and big Z for (not sure how this shakes out but cap Wise would work with the proposed signing above…

 

1. Buf’s Hagg LD

2. Chi’s Haggel LW

3. Chi’s D. Strome C

 

then in no particular line order or

D pairs you have:

 

Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tachuck

Hagel/Monahan/Toffoil

manji/Strome/Coleman

Lucic/Ruzicka/Lewis or maybe other

 

Hanifin/Tanev

Kylington/Haag

Anderson/Gunny 

 

clearly, if we leveraged this TDL and moved Dube some of those could be a great fit now like Haag and Hagel…strome

would be an off-season move…but would fit the short term needs for a push now and long term in terms Young enough to keep the core and cup window open for a few more years with minor adjustments…also as Much as we All love Dube he’s not

fitting in where he should so keeping is not fair to him or the team he can be far better he just can’t get the opportunity here sadly…also, moving Backlund for the right return we could flip to upgrade on him with a Ctr lime Strome in the off season…i

do not see any sense in messing with the Manji/Backlund/Coleman line this close to the post season and the chemistry they have…all be it they do seem to run hot and cold For offensive output, they are a solid line even if not scoring much…upgrade that 3rd line LW and I think it will offset the cold streaks of offence on our current 2nd line…it’s an affordable move that make sense in all areas now and moving forward. 

 

 

[CheersMan]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Give Zadorov's money to Gudbranson and then give Gudbranson's money to Valimaki.  Next year go with Valimaki - Gudbranson as the 3rd pair. Zadorov is gone.

It’s a little premature for this thread as plenty of season still needs to be played out, but it is harmless nonetheless. The further we go in the playoffs the more $$ unsigned players wants. The big Z could be the odd man out on D. He is entering UFA and will be looking at the highest bidder no question. Gudbranson is UFA as well, but he may be happy with the stability being offered here and may accept something less than present Z money. That would leave some change for Kylinton. The forward group is exploding with Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Mang looking for raises. The Tkachuk family have never left money on the table, Gaudreau will be swinging for the fences and Mang’s agent thinks he is top 10 in the league, something big needs to give in the forward group and it could be 1 of the 3 mentioned above heading out of here. This will be the offseason that challenges BT the greatest.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, CheersMan said:

It’s a little premature for this thread as plenty of season still needs to be played out, but it is harmless nonetheless. The further we go in the playoffs the more $$ unsigned players wants. The big Z could be the odd man out on D. He is entering UFA and will be looking at the highest bidder no question. Gudbranson is UFA as well, but he may be happy with the stability being offered here and may accept something less than present Z money. That would leave some change for Kylinton. The forward group is exploding with Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Mang looking for raises. The Tkachuk family have never left money on the table, Gaudreau will be swinging for the fences and Mang’s agent thinks he is top 10 in the league, something big needs to give in the forward group and it could be 1 of the 3 mentioned above heading out of here. This will be the offseason that challenges BT the greatest.

 

Gudbranson was making $4-mil-per previous to the Flames and he signed with the Flames the final week before camp because, I think he was holding out for a better offer somewhere else but nothing came.  I'm sure he wants $4-mil-per again on a 3-year.  Depending on how we do from here, I'd like to have him back.  The RHS RD, size, toughness, fighting, PK abilities, etc.  We haven't had this since Derek Engellend and we miss it.  Gudbranson has been playing well so I assume that means he's happy here and happy to play under Sutter.  Hope he stays.  Zadorov is making more money than Gudbranson but Gudbranson is the more steady Dman.  Zadorov gives you more flash but it's not translating too well too often.  Valimaki could replace Zadorov with less toughness but more upside.

 

I do agree that Mangiapane's contract might be the toughest of them all.  He's potentially going to score 40-goals this season.

 

Gaudreau should be looking at something between Panarin and Kaprizov.  We could see as high as $11.5-mil x 8.

 

And Tkachuk, I mean, I think he's happy here now with Giordano gone.  I do feel the Flames want to make him the next captain and will dangle that to get him to extend for 8-years.  He's posting career numbers and at 24-years-old, you've gotta think his next 3 years will continue to be his best.  It's scary to think this but he could get $10-mil-per x 8.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I’d rather keep Monahan…move Backlund for pick/prospect to flip? And move Dube and big Z for (not sure how this shakes out but cap Wise would work with the proposed signing above…

 

1. Buf’s Hagg LD

2. Chi’s Haggel LW

3. Chi’s D. Strome C

 

then in no particular line order or

D pairs you have:

 

Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tachuck

Hagel/Monahan/Toffoil

manji/Strome/Coleman

Lucic/Ruzicka/Lewis or maybe other

 

Hanifin/Tanev

Kylington/Haag

Anderson/Gunny 

 

clearly, if we leveraged this TDL and moved Dube some of those could be a great fit now like Haag and Hagel…strome

would be an off-season move…but would fit the short term needs for a push now and long term in terms Young enough to keep the core and cup window open for a few more years with minor adjustments…also as Much as we All love Dube he’s not

fitting in where he should so keeping is not fair to him or the team he can be far better he just can’t get the opportunity here sadly…also, moving Backlund for the right return we could flip to upgrade on him with a Ctr lime Strome in the off season…i

do not see any sense in messing with the Manji/Backlund/Coleman line this close to the post season and the chemistry they have…all be it they do seem to run hot and cold For offensive output, they are a solid line even if not scoring much…upgrade that 3rd line LW and I think it will offset the cold streaks of offence on our current 2nd line…it’s an affordable move that make sense in all areas now and moving forward. 

 

Well, we may have to move both Monahan and Backlund to make cap space... because I think we still need a legit #1 Center this off-season.  Those two free up cap to land a big fish.

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Because no Dman has in 2 years. Last player to settle in arbitration was Tyler Bertuzzi in 2020. 

 

It's pretty hard to find a direct comparable because last season Kylington had no case and was on waivers. He is popping this year so to find a direct comparison over the last 2 years is tough. He's pretty comparable to Weegar, Gustav Forsling, Graves with Forsling being maybe his best comp. The most common numbers are 3.1 to 3.7 but in most cases you see more duration over the career than you see with Kylington. Both were in sort of in and out of the lineup for multiple seasons and then found traction. In a shortened seasons last year Forsling numbers are really close to what Kylington has done so far this year. He got 2.6 over 3 years. 

 

I'm not really seeing the comps that can support Kylington getting more than 3mill on a 1 year deal. 

 

All I was saying is that there really hasn't been any recent arbitration cases that match his circumstances.

The two sides are usually far apart.

I don't know that there is any benefit for Kyl to sign a one year deal outside of the process.

It may be the best thing to do, but who knows what the players wants.

[cross16]

38 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

All I was saying is that there really hasn't been any recent arbitration cases that match his circumstances.

The two sides are usually far apart.

I don't know that there is any benefit for Kyl to sign a one year deal outside of the process.

It may be the best thing to do, but who knows what the players wants.

 

You don't need arbitration cases to make your point though. The system is based on what comparable players have signed for not necessarily previous awards. 

 

I think it's best for both sides to avoid arbitration and I don't really think either is going to get what they want by going through the process. 

[cross16]

When your top line makes a combined 18 million dollars I think you can afford to have a bottom pairing pulling in $5.5. When that same top line is probably going to cost at least another 5-6 million next year you lose the luxury of having a bottom pairing be that expensive. 

 

Reality is that both Z and Gudbranson are very likely gone unless they are willing to play on discounts. 

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

You don't need arbitration cases to make your point though. The system is based on what comparable players have signed for not necessarily previous awards. 

 

I think it's best for both sides to avoid arbitration and I don't really think either is going to get what they want by going through the process. 

 

It's really the only leverage he has.

Just to force the issue more than anything else.

I would prefer to have him locked in for a longer term, but that is just for known cap reasons.

I think 3 years buys one year of UFA, so I don't know that is anty real benefit.

 

We have bigger cap issues than Kylington, so I am interested to see how BT approaches it.