It's Game Day Biotches

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

Who exactly did not going on IR prevent us from getting?  It's funny the people BTCing about this now will also be the ones BTCing on draft day about a lack of picks.  I can't imagine this has been an easy year on the guy, fans and media were trading him all summer, he starts slow coming off a major surgery (not uncommon),at some point injures the other hip, probably plays through a bit a lot of nagging injuries do just go away over time, then the talk isn't about him being traded, its nobody will want him at his salary so he could be bought out.  Yes this guy makes a lot of money, but these guys go through the same stresses and mental challenges that the rest of us do.  So maybe cut the guy a little slack.

 

Almost certainly prevented us from getting Chiarot.  We did the Toffoli trade early but kept circling back to Montreal to keep the communication channels open because we needed more cap room to do more.  It was heavily rumoured we wanted both Tollofi and Chiarot.

 

Hampus Lindholm was possibly another.  Sources say we pursued Lindholm hard... Maybe we got outbid in the end and the cap space never mattered, we will never know.

 

I think these were the two names that, BT tried to acquire but we needed Monahan's cap to be gone.

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

According to BT, he wasn't complaining about it prior to Friday.

 

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

yup! This annoys me about him. It wins points with fans and teammates but ultimately screws over the team.

 

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

According to Sutter, this just happened.  Maybe not against LA, but most likely against SJS.

 

Such a bad break for him (but of course I'm thinking team first wondering why he didn't shut himself down a couple weeks earlier).  Ruzicka is already better than Monahan but was a victim of the cap.  He can now slot back into Monahan's spot.

 

I don't think the team will miss a beat.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

on top of that it is part of the culture. Hard to get mad at Monahan for doing what almost all other players would do. 
 

it’s a BS culture that needs to change and shouldn’t be celebrated, but it’s incredibly common. The culture is what should be frustrating not the individual. 

 

The question I'm thinking is can we buyout players when they are on IR?  We shouldn't do it from a moral standpoint but is it allowed in the CBA/rules?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Almost certainly prevented us from getting Chiarot.  We did the Toffoli trade early but kept circling back to Montreal to keep the communication channels open because we needed more cap room to do more.  It was heavily rumoured we wanted both Tollofi and Chiarot.

 

Hampus Lindholm was possibly another.  Sources say we pursued Lindholm hard... Maybe we got outbid in the end and the cap space never mattered, we will never know.

 

I think these were the two names that, BT tried to acquire but we needed Monahan's cap to be gone.

If theres any truth to that then good, Chairot wasnt a good target anyway.  Maybe having the cap space would have landed a higher caliber C but maybe not having the space prevented BT from making a less favorable deal.

[robrob74]

45 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

If theres any truth to that then good, Chairot wasnt a good target anyway.  Maybe having the cap space would have landed a higher caliber C but maybe not having the space prevented BT from making a less favorable deal.

I can see both sides too. 
 

but having the cap space would have allowed Ruzicka to stay up. 
 

we seemed to be winning more when he was playing. Maybe that corresponds to Monahan getting injured too. 

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Almost certainly prevented us from getting Chiarot.  We did the Toffoli trade early but kept circling back to Montreal to keep the communication channels open because we needed more cap room to do more.  It was heavily rumoured we wanted both Tollofi and Chiarot.

 

Hampus Lindholm was possibly another.  Sources say we pursued Lindholm hard... Maybe we got outbid in the end and the cap space never mattered, we will never know.

 

I think these were the two names that, BT tried to acquire but we needed Monahan's cap to be gone.

 

The Chairot part got axed because they wanted Pelletier.  Really a non-starter for a pending UFA.

Had to keep it separate, and who know how expensive it would have been.

By the sounds of it, we walked away.

 

Lindholm ended up being retained salary.

Cost a lot of picks, but whatever.

Only of interest if we could re-sign him.

Yes, it would have been good to re-sign him, but would cost us Hanifin later.

"Not that there is anything wrong with that".

 

Had Monahan been diagnozed in March and placed on LTIR (big if), it may have reduced some of the asking proces on players, but I think teams selling don't care about that.  They want the extras to retain salary.  May have missed out on Copp, but he's getting paid next year.  Other than him, were there any C's that would make a difference?  Giroux was never an option. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

I can see both sides too. 
 

but having the cap space would have allowed Ruzicka to stay up. 
 

we seemed to be winning more when he was playing. Maybe that corresponds to Monahan getting injured too. 

 

It's not just cap.

Ruzie was a roster decision, not cap.

23 max players.

Maybe we don't bring in Carpenter, but we would be down a C, waiving Richardson.

REgardless of being claimed or not, he was down due to roster limits.

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

One of the things that Gaudreau talked about last year was that Monahan had real trouble taking draws, that he was lame for about a minute after it.  If he had a long term injury, then he would have poor faceoff stats up to the LA game.  In recent weeks, his only sub 50% games were SJS and NJ.   

 

Really though, it's anyone's guess when it happened.

One day he is good, the next he can't go.

Fair point…definitely sucks either way for both Monahan and the team.

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

What a truly terrible story this is turning out to be. I feel for Monahan he just wants to do what he can for his team and his body is just totally letting him down. 
Just awful luck. 

Well

said he’s a trooper hopefully that’s it for him and when he comes back he’s good to go and has some

more affordable results…god knows he’s earned it 

[MP5029]

5 hours ago, sak22 said:

Who exactly did not going on IR prevent us from getting?  It's funny the people BTCing about this now will also be the ones BTCing on draft day about a lack of picks.  I can't imagine this has been an easy year on the guy, fans and media were trading him all summer, he starts slow coming off a major surgery (not uncommon),at some point injures the other hip, probably plays through a bit a lot of nagging injuries do just go away over time, then the talk isn't about him being traded, its nobody will want him at his salary so he could be bought out.  Yes this guy makes a lot of money, but these guys go through the same stresses and mental challenges that the rest of us do.  So maybe cut the guy a little slack.

Well said, I’m hoping Monahan has a solid rehab and comes back and makes people

eat crow for doubting him…he’s still a fav for me, and hopefully he comes back and has some favourable results next year…keeping in mind Sutter has sheltered Sean a lot this year, because of the surgery last year…kinda smart in my books…kid is still only 27 so give another year and see how things go…he may be sheltered to start next year again but got a feeling if things go well we see him potting some goals and racking up some

assists too 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

The question I'm thinking is can we buyout players when they are on IR?  We shouldn't do it from a moral standpoint but is it allowed in the CBA/rules?

Not allowed no, unless the player agrees to it which they likely would not. 
 

Depending on Monahans recovery they may not be ably to buy him out. We’ll see. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Almost certainly prevented us from getting Chiarot.  We did the Toffoli trade early but kept circling back to Montreal to keep the communication channels open because we needed more cap room to do more.  It was heavily rumoured we wanted both Tollofi and Chiarot.

 

Hampus Lindholm was possibly another.  Sources say we pursued Lindholm hard... Maybe we got outbid in the end and the cap space never mattered, we will never know.

 

I think these were the two names that, BT tried to acquire but we needed Monahan's cap to be gone.

The rumored ask for Chiarot was Pelletier, Chiarot does nothing for me I consider him massively overrated and barely and upgrade over Zad, glad we didn't get that one.  Lindholm is an upgrade over Kylington and Zad for sure, but I don't know if I like him over Hanifin.  Personally the only area I see for improvement on the defense is goal scoring, I know I'm in the minority that liked our unit as is on the deadline day, 2nd in the league in GA must be doing something right.

 

Upgrading at C would've been the best case, but the options weren't really there.  

 

It's easy to look at what Florida and Tampa and say were are missing out.  Tampa can get away with overpaying in picks for players, they have a core locked up for years to come.  Florida is also in a good spot going forward.  The Flames aren't there, neither of those guys put them there either.  I just don't like the emptying of draft capital.  Lose Johnny and your hoping to find another like him in the 4th round, keep him and you risk running into the same issues with Iggy of never giving him help in the later years of that contract.  I like the all-in attitude some fans have, but Ben Chiarot is like going all in with a pair of 4's.

[The_People1]

21 minutes ago, sak22 said:

The rumored ask for Chiarot was Pelletier, Chiarot does nothing for me I consider him massively overrated and barely and upgrade over Zad, glad we didn't get that one.  Lindholm is an upgrade over Kylington and Zad for sure, but I don't know if I like him over Hanifin.  Personally the only area I see for improvement on the defense is goal scoring, I know I'm in the minority that liked our unit as is on the deadline day, 2nd in the league in GA must be doing something right.

 

Upgrading at C would've been the best case, but the options weren't really there.  

 

It's easy to look at what Florida and Tampa and say were are missing out.  Tampa can get away with overpaying in picks for players, they have a core locked up for years to come.  Florida is also in a good spot going forward.  The Flames aren't there, neither of those guys put them there either.  I just don't like the emptying of draft capital.  Lose Johnny and your hoping to find another like him in the 4th round, keep him and you risk running into the same issues with Iggy of never giving him help in the later years of that contract.  I like the all-in attitude some fans have, but Ben Chiarot is like going all in with a pair of 4's.

 

I was just answering your question.

 

There could have been more potential trades where BT said "you must take Monahan's salary" and the phone hung up on him.  We will never know about those.

[The_People1]

42 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Not allowed no, unless the player agrees to it which they likely would not. 
 

Depending on Monahans recovery they may not be ably to buy him out. We’ll see. 

 

Good to know thanks.  We were thinking Monahan was someone we can move out this summer but now it's looking bleak.  Can't buy him out.  No team wants to trade for that contract.

[The_People1]

51 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Well said, I’m hoping Monahan has a solid rehab and comes back and makes people

eat crow for doubting him…

 

I can appreciate the fan perspective.  However, at $6.375-mil, you must deliver and there's nothing less that's expected.  He's not a $1-mil reclamation project.  But well, what other choice do we have?  We are stuck with him now.

[sak22]

53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Good to know thanks.  We were thinking Monahan was someone we can move out this summer but now it's looking bleak.  Can't buy him out.  No team wants to trade for that contract.

Who knows, some teams may need to hit the floor whether he can be moved to those teams is a different story.

[conundrumed]

Hopefully getting out on the road lends some much needed focus. It's going to have to!!

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Hopefully getting out on the road lends some much needed focus. It's going to have to!!

The Cali trips have always been a test, this should be a good time to get out of their own heads and back on track.

[travel_dude]

On 4/2/2022 at 7:10 PM, The_People1 said:

 

I can appreciate the fan perspective.  However, at $6.375-mil, you must deliver and there's nothing less that's expected.  He's not a $1-mil reclamation project.  But well, what other choice do we have?  We are stuck with him now.

 

A trade is the likely solution.

We can possibly afford to keep him if we trade Lucic.

But really, what is the value of a 4C that could play up to a 2C at best?

And that assumes he comes back stronger than last September.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Hopefully getting out on the road lends some much needed focus. It's going to have to!!

 

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

The Cali trips have always been a test, this should be a good time to get out of their own heads and back on track.

 

4 point game to start.  Yikes, it's so close now.

Time to reset and pull away, stuck at 88 or 89 for so long.

Oilers went on a tear at home.

First road win since March 1st.

[cross16]

On 4/2/2022 at 7:05 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Good to know thanks.  We were thinking Monahan was someone we can move out this summer but now it's looking bleak.  Can't buy him out.  No team wants to trade for that contract.

 

Unless he has a setback in his recovery or something else is uncovered through this I'm not too worried about a buyout, it will likely be an option. Rules are not clear but the spirit of the rule seems to be in place to prevent teams from buying out players who have long term injuries. For Monahan, who is expecting to play next year as of now, I think it's unlikely he'd fall in that category. 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Unless he has a setback in his recovery or something else is uncovered through this I'm not too worried about a buyout, it will likely be an option. Rules are not clear but the spirit of the rule seems to be in place to prevent teams from buying out players who have long term injuries. For Monahan, who is expecting to play next year as of now, I think it's unlikely he'd fall in that category. 

 

What are the actual dates of the 2nd buyout window?  I'm assuming that one of the RFA's selects arbitration.  A buyout sucks for the player, but does allow him to get signed by some team taking a chance.  

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What are the actual dates of the 2nd buyout window?  I'm assuming that one of the RFA's selects arbitration.  A buyout sucks for the player, but does allow him to get signed by some team taking a chance.  

 

Depends on when that player goes to arb. 

 

 

Quote

 

Buyouts Outside of the Regular Period

Clubs whom have 1 or more arbitration filings may be permitted to perform a buyout outside of the regular window. This gives teams another opportunity to become cap compliant following an arbitration case.

Clubs are permitted to perform a buyout outside the regular period during the 48 hour period beginning on the third day after the final of [CBA 13(c)ii]:

1. Settlement of the Club's final arbitration case, or
2. Receipt of the Club's last arbitration award

 

1.  

[travel_dude]

So, reading into that, it's a very short window.  We had Zaddy due to go on August 26th last year, but I think that was a little later than normal.

 

It's not super important at this point, was just curious.  Timing wise, it would seem that Monahan would be fit to return sometime in August.  If we don't buy him out in the first window, perhaps this is an option for the Flames.  I say this because they will have signed Gaudreau by then, possibly Matty or Mangiapane or Kylington and have a better idea of what they have left.  One of the last three will probably have elected arb.  But who knows.

 

In an ideal world, we are able t trade Lucic or Monahan or both to allow us to complete the roster.  Somehow, I don't think BT is really worried about it.

[conundrumed]

What do we need to call up Rozie?

Guessing Kyl back, Mackey down, Ritchie to IR?

I'm growing deeply annoyed at the Carpenter acquisition at the expense of Ruzicka.