The Sutter Impact

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Where do I start...the bottom 6 adding Pitlick and Lewis. Adding to Lucic. 

Not bad at all.

Zadorov? Why? Because he controls the play. No one wants to mess with his side of the ice. All of the dump ins will be his side. Sutter can exploit that.

As I said before, these are Sutter driven moves.

He's dumb like a fox.

 

Lewis is way too old.

Lucic is way too slow.

4th line doesn't have a Center.

 

We just going to roll 3 lines this season?

 

 

[conundrumed]

45 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lewis is way too old.

Lucic is way too slow.

4th line doesn't have a Center.

 

We just going to roll 3 lines this season?

 

 

Seems like the perfect spot to get Ruzicka started.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Seems like the perfect spot to get Ruzicka started.

 

Ruzicka is playing in that spot on the national team in Slovakia right now.

Good to not just have LW's.

I think you mentioned that Gawdin is too slow?

Ruzicka has looked good in the AHL and his limited play in NHL.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ruzicka is playing in that spot on the national team in Slovakia right now.

Good to not just have LW's.

I think you mentioned that Gawdin is too slow?

Ruzicka has looked good in the AHL and his limited play in NHL.

Gawdin's foot speed is total sketch. I think he's a lumbering skater that doesn't have good lateral movement. By NHL standards.

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Gawdin's foot speed is total sketch. I think he's a lumbering skater that doesn't have good lateral movement. By NHL standards.

 

Pretty limited viewing.

Basically stapled to a 4th line for 8 minutes.

I've seen better from him, but if speed is an issue, it will be a tough road ahead for him.

[kehatch]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Seems like the perfect spot to get Ruzicka started.

 

Our bottom 6 is going to look fine in my opinion. A few good additions and some kids that can fill gaps. Same with the bottom 2 pairs, though we could use an addition on the right side. 

 

The concerns I have are top 6 scoring (particularly at C), top pairing, and to a lesser extent goal. 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

Our bottom 6 is going to look fine in my opinion. A few good additions and some kids that can fill gaps. Same with the bottom 2 pairs, though we could use an addition on the right side. 

 

The concerns I have are top 6 scoring (particularly at C), top pairing, and to a lesser extent goal. 

Monahan back to form helps that a lot.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Monahan back to form helps that a lot.

if you go with the usual Monahan line they need to find new ways of entering the zone because they concentrate on Johnny and the line gets easily shut down. They have the room to work the PP, but are a mess 5v5 if it’s going as per usual. Even with Lindholm on the line it went stale in the 2nd half of the year the Flames went 2nd overall and it was worse in the playoffs. 
 

I want them to succeed too, but it’s been more that 2 seasons. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

if you go with the usual Monahan line they need to find new ways of entering the zone because they concentrate on Johnny and the line gets easily shut down. They have the room to work the PP, but are a mess 5v5 if it’s going as per usual. Even with Lindholm on the line it went stale in the 2nd half of the year the Flames went 2nd overall and it was worse in the playoffs. 
 

I want them to succeed too, but it’s been more that 2 seasons. 

 

What is the Monahan line?

The one that was successful in the 2018/19 season with Lindholm?

The one that was successful when reunited in January in 2019/20?

The one that was not great in 2020/21 with you name it as a RW?

 

Lots of blame to pass around for playoff failures and poor PP setup, but let's keep it in perspective.

There were a lot of poor efforts in the playoffs and the PP was stagnant at times in regular season.

If the C and other winger can't get open in the zone, JH is not going to be able to do as much.

With Monahan struggling this season with health, they had nobody to play with him.

 

For most of the time they played as a 3 player unit, JH, EL and SM thrived.

They needed to make the switch this season was due to Monahan.

Most people say he was injured most of the year.

[kehatch]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Monahan back to form helps that a lot.

 

I hope Sutter is good for Monahan, and I think he will be. Monahan is a good offensive centre outside of last season. But he needs to be better defensively and Sutter may help with that. 

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What is the Monahan line?

The one that was successful in the 2018/19 season with Lindholm?

The one that was successful when reunited in January in 2019/20?

The one that was not great in 2020/21 with you name it as a RW?

 

Lots of blame to pass around for playoff failures and poor PP setup, but let's keep it in perspective.

There were a lot of poor efforts in the playoffs and the PP was stagnant at times in regular season.

If the C and other winger can't get open in the zone, JH is not going to be able to do as much.

With Monahan struggling this season with health, they had nobody to play with him.

 

For most of the time they played as a 3 player unit, JH, EL and SM thrived.

They needed to make the switch this season was due to Monahan.

Most people say he was injured most of the year.

 

so what is his excuse for the season before? 

 

they were successful for about a half a season, maybe a bit more. 
 

they’re good on the PP together. That’s about it. I will be happy if they can prove me wrong. In season is fine, but success isn’t just making the playoffs. 

[The_People1]

14 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Monahan back to form helps that a lot.

 

Hate to be negative here but we have to give Giordano-Brodie some credit for the top line's explosive season that year.  Those two were statistically one of the top 3 pairs in the NHL and Giordano takes home the Norris trophy that season.  74-points from the backend to boost the numbers of the top line.  There may never be a transitioning D-pairing as good as those two that particular season ever again, and certainly not this season at least.

 

Where is that level of scoring help from the blueline coming from this season?  And where is it coming from under a Sutter system?  Maybe Hanifin and Andersson give us 35-points each from the blueline and Valimaki emerges and goes into the 30s as well.  Man, that's about it.  Good luck to Monahan returning to 80-point form.  60-points is a stretch.  More like 50-points max.  We going to try to win 2-1 every night.

[pikey7883]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Hate to be negative here but we have to give Giordano-Brodie some credit for the top line's explosive season that year.  Those two were statistically one of the top 3 pairs in the NHL and Giordano takes home the Norris trophy that season.  74-points from the backend to boost the numbers of the top line.  There may never be a transitioning D-pairing as good as those two that particular season ever again, and certainly not this season at least.

 

Where is that level of scoring help from the blueline coming from this season?  And where is it coming from under a Sutter system?  Maybe Hanifin and Andersson give us 35-points each from the blueline and Valimaki emerges and goes into the 30s as well.  Man, that's about it.  Good luck to Monahan returning to 80-point form.  60-points is a stretch.  More like 50-points max.  We going to try to win 2-1 every night.

If that’s the case bringing in a Center like Dvorak would be ideal. And Lindholm playing on Monahans line allows them to both take draws on their strong side. I agree that the D group currently is a toss up, have the potential to surprise and see a couple of them break out or make that next step or be what they are. 
 

[conundrumed]

*bump*

We're definitely going to be needing this thread all year. Just make them play hard for 60 minutes is all I ask!!

[The_People1]

17 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

*bump*

We're definitely going to be needing this thread all year. Just make them play hard for 60 minutes is all I ask!!

 

I'm interested to see if we improve our defensive structure with the players we have.  Our offense isn't competitive and so we will need to win a lot of 2-1 games.  If we can't defend as a group and/or Markstrom doesn't come through then this is going to be a long season.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm interested to see if we improve our defensive structure with the players we have.  Our offense isn't competitive and so we will need to win a lot of 2-1 games.  If we can't defend as a group and/or Markstrom doesn't come through then this is going to be a long season.

I agree. They have to play as a group. Sutter's very demanding, but I think guys like Lewis and Richardson can help teach this team about hard work and the payoff with Sutter.

Making Coleman and Pitlick pretty good adds because they're both blue collar players. The Gudbranson thing still has me scratching my head hard though. He just isn't good at anything. But may reach his goal of playing for all 32 teams.lol

[tmac70]

39 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

*bump*

We're definitely going to be needing this thread all year. Just make them play hard for 60 minutes is all I ask!!

This. Your point has always been my bone of contention with this club. Put forth an effort to be proud of, win or lose.

[tmac70]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm interested to see if we improve our defensive structure with the players we have.  Our offense isn't competitive and so we will need to win a lot of 2-1 games.  If we can't defend as a group and/or Markstrom doesn't come through then this is going to be a long season.

I agree but disagree. I belive we should have offensively more punch, for me it all depends on the D. If Sutters systems can make our D core 25% better we could be in for a surprize. We have to remember out side of Doughty he didn't have stars in LA nor did he have rock stars here in 04. We had solid goal tending and were defensivley sound, with one line leading the way. We have potetnially 5-6 forwards of 20+ goals each, Mags, JG, Lindy, MT, Mony Coleman and possibly Dube. IMHO our offense should improve the intangible is " IF" Markstrom plays any where close to his potential and Sutter can impliment a system for our D players we could look better than what we believe. Despite what past may have looked like Sutter wanted Gubranson and Zadorov for a reason

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I agree. They have to play as a group. Sutter's very demanding, but I think guys like Lewis and Richardson can help teach this team about hard work and the payoff with Sutter.

Making Coleman and Pitlick pretty good adds because they're both blue collar players. The Gudbranson thing still has me scratching my head hard though. He just isn't good at anything. But may reach his goal of playing for all 32 teams.lol

 

I haven't watched too much of Gudbranson to comment but I imagine he is an upgrade to Stone.  And we do have Stone as insurance if Gudbranson really goes bad.  The way we play under Sutter should play into Gudbranson's strength.  Will have to see how things play out here.

 

And that bottom 6... We struggled to score last season and didn't help it much with the changes.  Sutter will deploy them as a waste of time to grind the clock down.  That's Sutter hockey but unfortunately works better in the playoffs than in the regular season.  We need run support but won't get much.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

I agree but disagree. I belive we should have offensively more punch, for me it all depends on the D. If Sutters systems can make our D core 25% better we could be in for a surprize. We have to remember out side of Doughty he didn't have stars in LA nor did he have rock stars here in 04. We had solid goal tending and were defensivley sound, with one line leading the way. We have potetnially 5-6 forwards of 20+ goals each, Mags, JG, Lindy, MT, Mony Coleman and possibly Dube. IMHO our offense should improve the intangible is " IF" Markstrom plays any where close to his potential and Sutter can impliment a system for our D players we could look better than what we believe. Despite what past may have looked like Sutter wanted Gubranson and Zadorov for a reason

 

I know what you are trying to say but Sutter did have game breakers on his Flames and Kings teams.  Iginla was a Rocket Richard winner.  Kings had Doughty, Kopitar, Carter, Richards, etc.

 

We have Gaudreau and that's about it.  Not even close to the offense Sutter had on previous teams.

 

We are going to need at least 220 to 230 goals to make the playoffs.  5-6 20-goal scorers don't add up.  We need 8-10 20-goal scorers. Our D will provide almost no run support.  Andersson and Hanifin project to be 30-points.  Maybe Valimaki gives us 30-points.  We don't have that 50-point Dman.

 

Depending on what the lines are, that bottom 6 probably doesn't factor into many goals.  Lucic, Lewis, Richardson, Ritchie, and Pitlick won't give much offense.  Coleman and Dube... Not sure where they will play.  

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know what you are trying to say but Sutter did have game breakers on his Flames and Kings teams.  Iginla was a Rocket Richard winner.  Kings had Doughty, Kopitar, Carter, Richards, etc.

 

We have Gaudreau and that's about it.  Not even close to the offense Sutter had on previous teams.

 

We are going to need at least 220 to 230 goals to make the playoffs.  5-6 20-goal scorers don't add up.  We need 8-10 20-goal scorers. Our D will provide almost no run support.  Andersson and Hanifin project to be 30-points.  Maybe Valimaki gives us 30-points.  We don't have that 50-point Dman.

 

Depending on what the lines are, that bottom 6 probably doesn't factor into many goals.  Lucic, Lewis, Richardson, Ritchie, and Pitlick won't give much offense.  Coleman and Dube... Not sure where they will play.  

 

Agreed, 

 

Let's just say this, 

 

If things don't go well, you can only fire so many coaches in a row to "solve the problem".

[The_Tribal Chief]

From Tre the Captaincy will wait and see there not in a rush to just place a c to anyone they will see during training camp how things go...

His other comments Trades didnt Happen and itseeemed from his presser more cause he didnt have Dance partner then anything to trade with

[sak22]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know what you are trying to say but Sutter did have game breakers on his Flames and Kings teams.  Iginla was a Rocket Richard winner.  Kings had Doughty, Kopitar, Carter, Richards, etc.

 

We have Gaudreau and that's about it.  Not even close to the offense Sutter had on previous teams.

 

We are going to need at least 220 to 230 goals to make the playoffs.  5-6 20-goal scorers don't add up.  We need 8-10 20-goal scorers. Our D will provide almost no run support.  Andersson and Hanifin project to be 30-points.  Maybe Valimaki gives us 30-points.  We don't have that 50-point Dman.

 

Depending on what the lines are, that bottom 6 probably doesn't factor into many goals.  Lucic, Lewis, Richardson, Ritchie, and Pitlick won't give much offense.  Coleman and Dube... Not sure where they will play.  

Not many teams in this era have 8-10 20 goal scorers.  Its less about the amount of 20 goal scorers for me, but improving on some of the numbers in the bottom 6, Ryan 2 in 43, Nordstrom 1 in 44, Ritchie 4 in 32 and Bennett 4 in 38.  Those were some pretty ugly one and not good enough when most of the top guys were down.  I'd love for the depth scoring to return to what it was in 2019, but even then it was Ryan 13, Bennett 13, Janko 14, Hathaway 11 and Mange 8 in 44g.

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Not many teams in this era have 8-10 20 goal scorers.  Its less about the amount of 20 goal scorers for me, but improving on some of the numbers in the bottom 6, Ryan 2 in 43, Nordstrom 1 in 44, Ritchie 4 in 32 and Bennett 4 in 38.  Those were some pretty ugly one and not good enough when most of the top guys were down.  I'd love for the depth scoring to return to what it was in 2019, but even then it was Ryan 13, Bennett 13, Janko 14, Hathaway 11 and Mange 8 in 44g.

 

Ya no run support from the bottom 6 last season for sure.  I'm not sure how our lines will play out but adding Coleman and Pitlick will help our 3rd line score,

 

1st line = 75 to 100 goals (Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk)

2nd line = 50 to 60 goals (Mangiapane - Monahan - Dube)

3rd line = 30 to 40 goals (Coleman - Backlund - Pitlick)

4th line = 5 to 10 goals (Lucic - Richardson - Lewis)

Extras = 10 goals (Ritchie, Froese, Gawdin, Ruzicka, etc)

 

Hopefully our D can pitch in with 25 to 40 goals combined.

 

We have to win a lot of 2-1 games because Sutter hockey will stress defense first.  D won't be active (not that we have offensive minded D anyways).  I still argue a large part of our 2018/19 success was because Giordano was out of his mind with two-way play and that top line benefitted.  We don't have that two-way Norris D on this roster.

 

Anyways, the Pacific division is weak.  Our roster is competitive with the others and should push for a 3/4th seed.

[Horsman1]

4 forward lines seems so old fashioned when special teams now a days makes or breaks a season..I prefer a top 9 forward list.. of which we are in pretty darn good shape.. withMonahan/Gaudreau/ Tkachuk/Backlund/Coleman/Lindholm/Mangiapane and Dube.. this leaves one spot open int he top 9 and Lucic/Pitlick/Richardson/ Ritchie and Lewis fighting for 2 or 3 openings on Special teams.. The Defence of Tanev/Hanafin..Anderson/Zadorov and Valamaki/Stone isn.t horrible with Gudbranson  backing them up.. with maybe one more of the 30 other dmen we have on payroll..