2021 Offseason Thread

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Sorry TD, you say we haven’t brought up prospect D in the past couple of years? What about Andersson and Valimaki? Both put in time in Stockton before moving up. Kylington also put in time in Stockton before coming up but couldn’t grab and hold a spot. Mackey has been paying his dues all season prior to a late call up and had put in time in college first. 

 

Well, actually I was talking about Russians and other FA signings.

Since you bring up Kylington, I will counter the argument that he hasn't grabbed a spot.

He wasn't given a spt even after earning a longer look.

Forbort and Gus both got the games.

Neither of them was anything special.

Who was it before them?

 

I get that if you have a world class D, you don't have room for Kylington's mistakes.

We weren't even that close to a playoff spot this past season, and only were short a couple of wins because MTL sucked the last few weeks.

And yet we chose to use either Nesterov or Stone.

Both pending UFA's.

 

I've got no issue with the AHL as a development league, so using spots there for fringe players isn't sensible.

You want them to help younger players, not be the team.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, actually I was talking about Russians and other FA signings.

Since you bring up Kylington, I will counter the argument that he hasn't grabbed a spot.

He wasn't given a spt even after earning a longer look.

Forbort and Gus both got the games.

Neither of them was anything special.

Who was it before them?

 

I get that if you have a world class D, you don't have room for Kylington's mistakes.

We weren't even that close to a playoff spot this past season, and only were short a couple of wins because MTL sucked the last few weeks.

And yet we chose to use either Nesterov or Stone.

Both pending UFA's.

 

I've got no issue with the AHL as a development league, so using spots there for fringe players isn't sensible.

You want them to help younger players, not be the team.

I fully agree! 
we did develop Andersson well, but other than that, Kylington is a dumpster fire. Kulak,  maybe you could make a case for him over someone as he’d fit in ok in our bottom 6. I say that because I’d rather Valamaki get big minutes in the AHL instead of rotting with 6-10 min a game. 
 

other than that, I don’t think the AHL were deep on D. We’d have seen more graduation if they were. And I think that if we didn’t draft D because we thought we had too many, that was poor foresight because now we don’t have any.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I fully agree! 
we did develop Andersson well, but other than that, Kylington is a dumpster fire. Kulak,  maybe you could make a case for him over someone as he’d fit in ok in our bottom 6. I say that because I’d rather Valamaki get big minutes in the AHL instead of rotting with 6-10 min a game. 
 

other than that, I don’t think the AHL were deep on D. We’d have seen more graduation if they were. And I think that if we didn’t draft D because we thought we had too many, that was poor foresight because now we don’t have any.

What irritates me is that you have the middling guys like Kulak, Hathaway and Lomberg wanting raises that they've earned and BT, instead of running on the faith in the player, washes his hands of them.

Add in waiving Byron, you just washed your hands of 3 guys that would be very useful today. So your stuck with a terrible bottom 6 of camp invites because you didn't see the need for effective bottom 6 guys in your system to give modest raises to. Playing hardball with your low paid guys is idiotic. They do their best and are dedicated to the jersey, you reward them with a slap in the face. Fla and MTL thank you for developing them.

Now look at that mess of a bottom 6. It's terrible. Fix your mess, by not doing what you've been doing with lazy fixes. Camp invites terrify me because I know we'll need at least 2 non-NHLers. Never fails.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

What irritates me is that you have the middling guys like Kulak, Hathaway and Lomberg wanting raises that they've earned and BT, instead of running on the faith in the player, washes his hands of them.

Add in waiving Byron, you just washed your hands of 3 guys that would be very useful today. So your stuck with a terrible bottom 6 of camp invites because you didn't see the need for effective bottom 6 guys in your system to give modest raises to. Playing hardball with your low paid guys is idiotic. They do their best and are dedicated to the jersey, you reward them with a slap in the face. Fla and MTL thank you for developing them.

Now look at that mess of a bottom 6. It's terrible. Fix your mess, by not doing what you've been doing with lazy fixes. Camp invites terrify me because I know we'll need at least 2 non-NHLers. Never fails.

 

Unfortunately, it seems that BT takes the word of the coach as gospel.  Hathaway never should have gotten to FA, but he is one of the few that actually got the coach's trust.

Byron waived because we wanted an extra goalie and some useless forward.  I don't get why BP turfed Kulak.  He played with Stone when Stone was really bad.  Lomberg really didn't get much of a chance here, so I'm not sure that they played hardball with him.  The only thing he got from FLA was the one way deal.

 

Here is where I do agree that BT is being a tool.  Two way deals.  Kylington being given a two way deal.  Come on.  I get not giving one to Lomberg for 11 NHL games (even if I don't agree with being so cheap), but Kylington?  Why so cheap?  It's such a small amount of cash to the club but so big a difference to a player.  $70k.  Yet there is no concern about paying an over the hill invite to eat popcorn.

 

[sak22]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

What irritates me is that you have the middling guys like Kulak, Hathaway and Lomberg wanting raises that they've earned and BT, instead of running on the faith in the player, washes his hands of them.

Add in waiving Byron, you just washed your hands of 3 guys that would be very useful today. So your stuck with a terrible bottom 6 of camp invites because you didn't see the need for effective bottom 6 guys in your system to give modest raises to. Playing hardball with your low paid guys is idiotic. They do their best and are dedicated to the jersey, you reward them with a slap in the face. Fla and MTL thank you for developing them.

Now look at that mess of a bottom 6. It's terrible. Fix your mess, by not doing what you've been doing with lazy fixes. Camp invites terrify me because I know we'll need at least 2 non-NHLers. Never fails.

It's not like there was no attempt to resign Hathaway.  Guy probably wanted to be out east, let him go and half the fanbase criticizes if he beats the offer Washington gave him the other half of the fanbase will criticize.  No win situation.  Are we really still hung up on Kulak, Montreal added bodies at the deadline that would push him out of the lineup, we let him go to give younger guys like Kylington and Valimaki a shot, Paul Byron was 26 when he was let go, he essentially lost his job to younger guys like Ferland, Bennett, Jooris and Granlund.  Some of those didn't pan out, but the only memories I have of Paul Byron as a Flame were his cheap shot on a Sedin and the many missed breakaways, good for him making the most of his time in Montreal, but I don't think he's that much of a miss.  I don't think any of them are that big of misses.

[JTech780]

Get bigger and meaner on the back end.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Get bigger and meaner on the back end.

 

I like the move myself.  Doesn't provide offense, but we lacked bite in our end.

Not sure of the trade terms though.

[JTech780]

 

[cross16]

Better be for pretty cheap. 
 

I get the target, this is 100% a Sutter style defender, but I don’t like it. It’s ok if the acquisition and extension are reasonable because Zadarov is more if a bottom pairing dman than a top 4 for me 

[JTech780]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

I like the move myself.  Doesn't provide offense, but we lacked bite in our end.

Not sure of the trade terms though.

Yeah I will wait and see the pick and the new contract, but I think he provides a needed element. He will fit with what Sutter likes to do with his defense.

[JTech780]

 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

Yeah I will wait and see the pick and the new contract, but I think he provides a needed element. He will fit with what Sutter likes to do with his defense.

 

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Better be for pretty cheap. 
 

I get the target, this is 100% a Sutter style defender, but I don’t like it. It’s ok if the acquisition and extension are reasonable because Zadarov is more if a bottom pairing dman than a top 4 for me 

 

The only saving grace is that is may allow Valimaki some breathing room to grow.

Not really sure which partner would be best for him.

As a partner for Ras, you could expect more offense from Ras.

Don't see the fit with Stone or Tanev.

[JTech780]

 

[JTech780]

So as of right now:

Hanifin-Tanev

Zadorov-Andersson

Valimaki-?

 

[MP5029]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

I like it he’s a great LD big mean body and his contract is 1 year at 3.2 and he’s 26…not a great offensive D replacement for Gio but a great element we have been missing, this is a great move by BT, now a few more like this and the ship could be righted very easily…however, a few like the Neil and Lucic deals and we are gonna tip…wait and see, but if this is the path, how great woulda Hamilton signing be for the D now?:

 

Hanifin/Hamliton

zerdov /Anderson

Valimaki/Tanev 

 

that would totally fix the back end for a few years, 3-5 anyway, and provide a lot of stability and possibly some

more back end punch being able to activate Hamilton or Hanifin, Anderson and Valimaki at any given time..

 

again-wait and see, but if…that’s a huge makeover that could really change things…

[cross16]

3rd rounder isn’t terrible. The contract part worries me a bit because I think even has qualifying offer is a bit high so not really interested in term at anything close to 4 mill. 
 

he fits a perceived need but I really don’t like dmen who can’t move the puck and he is terrible at it. Maybe he fits with Rasmus and this works out better than I think. 
sutters also got his work cut out for him with penalties. Zadarov takes way too many. 

[sak22]

So it's now 8 from the 2013 first round that have been part of the organization.  Hard to believe it was a highly touted class.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

3rd rounder isn’t terrible. The contract part worries me a bit because I think even has qualifying offer is a bit high so not really interested in term at anything close to 4 mill. 
 

he fits a perceived need but I really don’t like dmen who can’t move the puck and he is terrible at it. Maybe he fits with Rasmus and this works out better than I think. 
sutters also got his work cut out for him with penalties. Zadarov takes way too many. 

 

That's Sutter hockey though, put a big physical defensive defenseman with a more mobile puck moving defenseman.

[bosn111]

Well I guess that answers the question of whether they have belief and in Mackey being ready for a full time NHL role. Zadorov likely pushes Mackey back to the AHL. Not the best move having Mackey at 7 unless it is more of a platoon with Zadorov rotating depending on team played. But I doubt that. 
 

If Zadorov gets a multi year deal, likely means Mackey will only ever see spot duty at best with the Flames. Also means Kuznetsov and Solovyov likely don’t see time with the big club for at least the length of the Zadorov contract.

 

 

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

3rd rounder isn’t terrible. The contract part worries me a bit because I think even has qualifying offer is a bit high so not really interested in term at anything close to 4 mill. 
 

he fits a perceived need but I really don’t like dmen who can’t move the puck and he is terrible at it. Maybe he fits with Rasmus and this works out better than I think. 
sutters also got his work cut out for him with penalties. Zadarov takes way too many. 

All correct. One positive you missed is that he is completely magnetic with teammates and fans alike.

[travel_dude]

Just now, bosn111 said:

Well I guess that answers the question of whether they have belief and in Mackey being ready for a full time NHL role. Zadorov likely pushes Mackey back to the AHL. Not the best move having Mackey at 7 unless it is more of a platoon with Zadorov rotating depending on team played. But I doubt that. 
 

If Zadorov gets a multi year deal, likely means Mackey will only ever see spot duty at best with the Flames. Also means Kuznetsov and Solovyov likely don’t see time with the big club for at least the length of the Zadorov contract.

 

 

 

Mackey or Kylington is currently 6 on the depth chart.

I would imagine they would like an upgrade to RD for 3rd pairing.

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

That's Sutter hockey though, put a big physical defensive defenseman with a more mobile puck moving defenseman.

Yup I’m not surprised by this deal at all I just don’t like it and I don’t think it actually makes the Flames better. 
 

but it was very predictable 

[conundrumed]

An old Avs tweet.

 

[bosn111]

Kylington and Mackey are both LD, meaning yes they still need another RD. Hanifin, Valimaki and Zadorov block both Kylington and Mackey on the left side.

 

Only way either gets a shot is if there is an injury or Valimaki falters (unlikely).

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, bosn111 said:

Kylington and Mackey are both LD, meaning yes they still need another RD. Hanifin, Valimaki and Zadorov block both Kylington and Mackey on the left side.

 

Only way either gets a shot is if there is an injury or Valimaki falters (unlikely).

 

Kylington can play RD, but I would look for an upgrade.

Mackey is exempt, so he can stay in the AHL to get better.