Seattle Expansion Draft

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

So you prefer Josh Leivo back?  A player who, if he's not scoring then he's not doing anything else for you.  Because he was finally starting to look good end of the season when the season was basically over?  The guy who lost his spot on the lines to Brett Ritchie? 

 

Ritchie doesn't score enough.  Yes.  But he excels in other departments that the team needs.

 

My complaint about using him is when he gets minutes and we won't even try out Ruzicka or Phillips.

I like the idea of Ritchie pounding the p*ss out of Khaira or Nurse.

Or the resident douchebags from other teams.

I don't consider him a viable option for a line with Gaudreau.

He has his uses, but not 82 games a year.

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

My complaint about using him is when he gets minutes and we won't even try out Ruzicka or Phillips.

I like the idea of Ritchie pounding the p*ss out of Khaira or Nurse.

Or the resident douchebags from other teams.

I don't consider him a viable option for a line with Gaudreau.

He has his uses, but not 82 games a year.

 

Yups.  Sutter should give him a lesser role.. like a Tevor Lewis, Jordan Nolan, etc.  Just go out there and grind for 8 minutes a night on the 4th line.  This is admittedly kind of useless during the regular season but vital to playoff success.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

So you prefer Josh Leivo back?  A player who, if he's not scoring then he's not doing anything else for you.  Because he was finally starting to look good end of the season when the season was basically over?  The guy who lost his spot on the lines to Brett Ritchie? 

 

Ritchie doesn't score enough.  Yes.  But he excels in other departments that the team needs.

What interesting is I think the opposite is true, and that is what the data would support to. Ritchie is tough yes but outside of that he literally brings nothing. He’s a black hole offensively, terrible defensively, he literally brings no value other than a couple of big hits and the odd fight. Now I acknowledge that is more important to some others than me and that’s fine but yes I would have brought back Leivo. Leivo was finding his scoring touch while still being pretty good away from the puck. 
 

like I said I get why they did this as Sutter would never play Leivo anyway but I just don’t agree with it. Having toughness and size in your bottom 6 is a good thing but I also believe that player should still bring other positives too. Ritchie doesn’t. 

[The_People1]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

What interesting is I think the opposite is true, and that is what the data would support to. Ritchie is tough yes but outside of that he literally brings nothing. He’s a black hole offensively, terrible defensively, he literally brings no value other than a couple of big hits and the odd fight. Now I acknowledge that is more important to some others than me and that’s fine but yes I would have brought back Leivo. Leivo was finding his scoring touch while still being pretty good away from the puck. 
 

like I said I get why they did this as Sutter would never play Leivo anyway but I just don’t agree with it. Having toughness and size in your bottom 6 is a good thing but I also believe that player should still bring other positives too. Ritchie doesn’t. 

 

I get why fans don't care for players like Ritchie, especially in the past 5 years or so where the game has changed.  But what Ritchie brought was energy at a time when the team was floating along without emotion and had no spark.

 

Sometimes it's a fight or one hit that changes a game.  I can appreciate what Leivo brought for about 20-games but boy that first half was forgettable.

 

And lastly, a team needs "parts" to form a whole.  Ritchie is something we are missing.  At the end of the day, we are talking about what the ideal 4th line player is at $900k.  Leivo can get you 10-goals while doing nothing when he's not scoring VS Ritchie will score 2-goals and give you lots of hitting and rough stuff all year long.

[sak22]

52 minutes ago, cross16 said:

What interesting is I think the opposite is true, and that is what the data would support to. Ritchie is tough yes but outside of that he literally brings nothing. He’s a black hole offensively, terrible defensively, he literally brings no value other than a couple of big hits and the odd fight. Now I acknowledge that is more important to some others than me and that’s fine but yes I would have brought back Leivo. Leivo was finding his scoring touch while still being pretty good away from the puck. 
 

like I said I get why they did this as Sutter would never play Leivo anyway but I just don’t agree with it. Having toughness and size in your bottom 6 is a good thing but I also believe that player should still bring other positives too. Ritchie doesn’t. 

That would've been my choice to sign, but sounds like he wants to test the waters and I can't blame him.  For the exposure requirements it really seemed like it was Ritchie or bust once Nordstrom left as I don't think any of the others were too happy.

[Thebrewcrew]

Who's gonna be stopping pucks for the Kraken?

Talbot?

Allen?

Bishop?

Vanecek?

 

Certainly doesn't look like they'll be getting a Marc-Andre Fleury to kick-start their franchise

[420since1974]

Mark Giordano Buyout

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (CGY)
2021-22	$6,750,000	$6,750,000	$0	$2,250,000	$2,250,000	$4,500,000	$2,250,000
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$2,250,000	$2,250,000	-$2,250,000	$2,250,000
TOTAL	$6,750,000	$6,750,000	$0	$4,500,000	$4,500,000	$2,250,000	$4,500,000

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Who's gonna be stopping pucks for the Kraken?

Talbot?

Allen?

Bishop?

Vanecek?

 

Certainly doesn't look like they'll be getting a Marc-Andre Fleury to kick-start their franchise

They get to pick 3 right?

 

Talbot

Hill

Holtby

 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

Mark Giordano Buyout

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (CGY)
2021-22	$6,750,000	$6,750,000	$0	$2,250,000	$2,250,000	$4,500,000	$2,250,000
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$2,250,000	$2,250,000	-$2,250,000	$2,250,000
TOTAL	$6,750,000	$6,750,000	$0	$4,500,000	$4,500,000	$2,250,000	$4,500,000

 

The buyout makes a little sense, just to give Gio the choice to re-sign with CGY.

Keeps him away from Seattle and being traded to a team not on his no trade lost.

 

But, it makes little sense to the Flames.  We lose another asset as a result.

We end up PO'ing the player.

Do we really want to re-sign him to multiple years after this?

We would probably have to pay him 3-4m to compete with other offers.

And that brings with it recapture penalties if he retires early.

[cross16]

18 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I get why fans don't care for players like Ritchie, especially in the past 5 years or so where the game has changed.  But what Ritchie brought was energy at a time when the team was floating along without emotion and had no spark.

 

Sometimes it's a fight or one hit that changes a game.  I can appreciate what Leivo brought for about 20-games but boy that first half was forgettable.

 

And lastly, a team needs "parts" to form a whole.  Ritchie is something we are missing.  At the end of the day, we are talking about what the ideal 4th line player is at $900k.  Leivo can get you 10-goals while doing nothing when he's not scoring VS Ritchie will score 2-goals and give you lots of hitting and rough stuff all year long.

and to be fair it shouldn’t be Leivo vs Ritchie because Leivo likely wasn’t an option. I’m just saying that’s the move I would have preferred but I also acknowledge it likely wasn’t an option. So this isn’t really arguing that the flames should have signed Leivo. 
 

I will only have a problem with this if Ritchie plays a regular role. I have no problem with players providing energy or physicality, you need that. Where I am coming from is if they are bad players outside of that they are not helping your team and Richie is not a good player.they should want that skill set but in a player who is actually a help so I hope the plan is to find that type of player and not play Ritchie. 

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

and to be fair it shouldn’t be Leivo be Ritchie because Leivo likely wasn’t an option. I’m just saying that’s the move I would have preferred but I also acknowledge it likely wasn’t an option. So this isn’t really arguing that the flames should have signed Leivo. 
 

I will only have a problem with this if Ritchie plays a regular role. I have no problem with players providing energy or physicality, you need that. Where I am coming from is they are bad players outside of that they are not helping your team and Richie is jot a good player.they should want that skill set but in a player who is actually a help so I hope the plan is to find that type of player and not play Ritchie. 

 

I watched a couple of games where Ritchie was in the slot for a chance, and he completely whiffed on the shot.  Like completely missed the puck.  

He was in on plays where a competent player could have got a decent chance, but we saw a lot of nothing.

Maybe I am being harsh, but I saw about 5 games where he had an impact to the good.

Ruzicka had a bigger impact on the game in the little time he got.

And that's not really pumping Ruzicka.

 

He's no Lucic; he can fight but doesn't scare anyone.  Lucic has an up and down game, but I would rather watch Lucic for 15 minutes than Richie for 10.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I watched a couple of games where Ritchie was in the slot for a chance, and he completely whiffed on the shot.  Like completely missed the puck.  

He was in on plays where a competent player could have got a decent chance, but we saw a lot of nothing.

Maybe I am being harsh, but I saw about 5 games where he had an impact to the good.

Ruzicka had a bigger impact on the game in the little time he got.

And that's not really pumping Ruzicka.

 

He's no Lucic; he can fight but doesn't scare anyone.  Lucic has an up and down game, but I would rather watch Lucic for 15 minutes than Richie for 10.

I'm wondering if this is foreshadowing the Kraks taking Looch and needing to keep a little muscle in the lineup.  Lets be honest, without Looch or a Ritchie type player this instantly becomes one of the softest teams in the league.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I'm wondering if this is foreshadowing the Kraks taking Looch and needing to keep a little muscle in the lineup.  Lets be honest, without Looch or a Ritchie type player this instantly becomes one of the softest teams in the league.

 

We are missing the grit on D.  Gio may yell at a player "Go back to the gym", and Ras yells "Boom", but those are two guys that are just solid, not that tough.

Bennett was the guy that laid out players with a big hit, but who was that on D?

 

I want our team to be tougher to play against.  Lucic is the nuclear option, but takes penalties for going close to the edge.  Same with Matty.

Yes, you need forwards that can take and deliver a hit on the other team, but only if that doesn't leave us mismatched on transition.

We struggled more in the D-zone, so let's fix that first.

Hammer McD and Draisaitl when they are on the wall.       

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

and to be fair it shouldn’t be Leivo be Ritchie because Leivo likely wasn’t an option. I’m just saying that’s the move I would have preferred but I also acknowledge it likely wasn’t an option. So this isn’t really arguing that the flames should have signed Leivo. 
 

I will only have a problem with this if Ritchie plays a regular role. I have no problem with players providing energy or physicality, you need that. Where I am coming from is they are bad players outside of that they are not helping your team and Richie is not a good player.they should want that skill set but in a player who is actually a help so I hope the plan is to find that type of player and not play Ritchie. 

 

In philosophy, would you prefer a "specialized skill set" VS a "jack-of-all-trades and master of none"?

 

That's how I see this.  One player brings "elite" physicality, fighting, energy, etc and lacks in other areas.  The other player does everything very average and vanilla but excels at nothing. 

 

In the end, we need a balance to offset each other's weaknesses and that's where I feel Ritchie's specialization is much needed on this particular roster.

 

Now that we've signed Ritchie, I would also prefer we sign a 4th line LW who specializes in the PK.  Someone like Reider.  If you are paying $900k, then aim for that player to do something special so they can be used in special situations.  They are only playing 8-minutes a game anyways.  Make it count.

[LouCifer]

48 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

In philosophy, would you prefer a "specialized skill set" VS a "jack-of-all-trades and master of none"?

 

That's how I see this.  One player brings "elite" physicality, fighting, energy, etc and lacks in other areas.  The other player does everything very average and vanilla but excels at nothing. 

 

In the end, we need a balance to offset each other's weaknesses and that's where I feel Ritchie's specialization is much needed on this particular roster.

 

Now that we've signed Ritchie, I would also prefer we sign a 4th line LW who specializes in the PK.  Someone like Reider.  If you are paying $900k, then aim for that player to do something special so they can be used in special situations.  They are only playing 8-minutes a game anyways.  Make it count.

 

This.

 

I've been a proponent for players that have specialized skill sets for a long time. The 200ft player gets you lots of miles on the odometer, but if you expect them to be your scorer, your defender, your essentially "everything", that my friend is called a unicorn. It doesn't exist, let alone putting together an entire team of them. Balancing your lines with complimentary and opposite skill sets will render better results. 

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

This.

 

I've been a proponent for players that have specialized skill sets for a long time. The 200ft player gets you lots of miles on the odometer, but if you expect them to be your scorer, your defender, your essentially "everything", that my friend is called a unicorn. It doesn't exist, let alone putting together an entire team of them. Balancing your lines with complimentary and opposite skill sets will render better results. 

 

That may be the case, but I would be happier if Lucic was a 4th liner and we had productive 3rd liners that would be ahead of Lucic.

 

3rd line - Dube-Backlund-Garland

4th line - Lucic-Ruzicka-Gawdin/Phillips

 

Isn't that more productive than using Ritchie on a full time basis?  Balanced?  Yes.

[LouCifer]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

That may be the case, but I would be happier if Lucic was a 4th liner and we had productive 3rd liners that would be ahead of Lucic.

 

3rd line - Dube-Backlund-Garland

4th line - Lucic-Ruzicka-Gawdin/Phillips

 

Isn't that more productive than using Ritchie on a full time basis?  Balanced?  Yes.

 

I don't disagree. I imagine BT (in an effort to get out of the Neal contract and get Lucic to agree to waive to come to Calgary) may have guaranteed him he wouldn't be slotted on the 4th line. Promised him opportunity to play. My 2 cents. But you're right. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

I don't disagree. I imagine BT (in an effort to get out of the Neal contract and get Lucic to agree to waive to come to Calgary) may have guaranteed him he wouldn't be slotted on the 4th line. Promised him opportunity to play. My 2 cents. But you're right. 

 

Considering Lucic almost retired under BP, I would say it was just a question of honoring the NMC until the draft.

TBH, minutes really determine what line you are on.

A more offensive role might be more fun for Looch.

Backlund is getting you D-zone starts.

Maybe Ruzicka gets you sheltered starts and you can pad your stats.

[cross16]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

In philosophy, would you prefer a "specialized skill set" VS a "jack-of-all-trades and master of none"?

 

That's how I see this.  One player brings "elite" physicality, fighting, energy, etc and lacks in other areas.  The other player does everything very average and vanilla but excels at nothing. 

 

In the end, we need a balance to offset each other's weaknesses and that's where I feel Ritchie's specialization is much needed on this particular roster.

 

Now that we've signed Ritchie, I would also prefer we sign a 4th line LW who specializes in the PK.  Someone like Reider.  If you are paying $900k, then aim for that player to do something special so they can be used in special situations.  They are only playing 8-minutes a game anyways.  Make it count.

I think we clearly differ on Ritchie. Rather than go back and forth here is a visual of why I don’t like him. There’s nothing “special” about his game. 
 

in theory I prefer specialized skill sets but my number one thing with my bottom 6, and I wouldn’t compromise it especially for size, is they can’t get run over 5 on 5. I think hits, physical play and the odd fight are useless and don’t help if the line is constantly chasing the game and giving up chances. 
 

but what is getting lost here is that they had to do this so signing him is really not a question. The question only enters if they plan on actually using him in a regular role and that remains to be seen. They still can, and imo should be, looking to upgrade the spot. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I think we clearly differ on Ritchie. Rather than go back and forth here is a visual of why I don’t like him. There’s nothing “special” about his game. 
 

in theory I prefer specialized skill sets but my number one thing with my bottom 6, and I wouldn’t compromise it especially for size, is they can’t get run over 5 on 5. I think hits, physical play and the odd fight are useless and don’t help if the line is constantly chasing the game and giving up chances. 
 

but what is getting lost here is that they had to do this so signing him is really not a question. The question only enters if they plan on actually using him in a regular role and that remains to be seen. They still can, and imo should be, looking to upgrade the spot. 

 

There is nothing special about his overall game for sure.  He is special in hitting, energy, fighting, grinding, grit, etc.   He's not going to generate anything 5-on-5.  That's not his specialty.

 

Of course, even a vanilla player is useless if his line is chasing the puck all game.  That goes without saying.  I know you can appreciate what he brings in key moments of the season.  He needs to improve his overall game for sure.  So does every $900k UFA.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

That may be the case, but I would be happier if Lucic was a 4th liner and we had productive 3rd liners that would be ahead of Lucic.

 

3rd line - Dube-Backlund-Garland

4th line - Lucic-Ruzicka-Gawdin/Phillips

 

Isn't that more productive than using Ritchie on a full time basis?  Balanced?  Yes.

 

I didn't like what I saw from Gawdin last season.  There's not enough grit there.  He's not particularly fast.  He's actually very vanilla too and excels at nothing.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I didn't like what I saw from Gawdin last season.  There's not enough grit there.  He's not particularly fast.  He's actually very vanilla too and excels at nothing.

Very limited viewing.  What did he play 8 minutes with Ritchie?

(Checks notes)

7 games with 6, 2, 4, 10, 5, 11 and 8 minutes.

He got his only point when he played 11.

But that's also like saying Phillips and Ruzicka will do nothing in the NHL.

 

I don't know what he is; a C or a RW, a shutdown guy or a passer.

Has to show something, but Sutter very much unwilling to give guys much runway.

Needs to come into camp with an attitude and prove it.

 

 

[cross16]

this is a surprise to me. Good asset for Seattle to have. 
don’t really understand this for Columbus. 
 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

this is a surprise to me. Good asset for Seattle to have. 
don’t really understand this for Columbus. 
 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/columbus-blue-jackets-max-domi-surgery/c-325182268

 

Probably due to his surgery, although there's still a chance he plays this season. Looks like they'd rather protect Jenner if Domi ends up exposed.

[travel_dude]

The consensus in EDM is that Klefbom isn't back this season.

I find that to be quite unusual.

Had successful surgery in March, looking at a 6 month recovery.

Was ruled by NHL to not be exempt from expansion draft.

 

Whay I am wondering is whether his medical reports are allowed to be reviewed by Seattle.

Holland telling people he isn;t going to play sounds like a smokescreen.