Matthew Tkachuk

[travel_dude]

47 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Monahan should be at least half the price, so you're not far off on the 3/4. So with 1/2, Tkachuck is another half. I you have to throw in a pick or prospect, then maybe do it? This deal if you have to outbid teams:

 

Monahan, Tkachuk, Andersson

 

For

Eichel, Ristolainen

 

Gaudreau, Eichel, XXX

Mangiapane, Lindholm, Dube

Lucic, Backlund, Leivo

Nordstrom, Ryan, Ritchie

 

Hanifin, Tanev

Valamaki, Ristolainen

Kylington/Mackey, XXX

 

I actually think that adding Risto increases the cost, not just a salary dump.

Stick to the simple deal and add a pick or a prospect like Phillips if that's what it takes.

 

TBH, I don't even know if Eichel should be a target.

A lot of stink from Buffalo.

Neck surgery this summer.

 

Maybe we would do Tkachuk to Philly for Konecny and Patrick.

One of those is a risky deal.

The other is a player position we actually need.

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Konecny

Mangiapane-Monahan-Patrick

 

 

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, you can call it a stretch, but if you mention Nate MacKinnon in a different light, you are wrong.

How many players regularly score move than 20 goals per season?  More than 30?

Not many.

If your standard is Matthews, then I will agree elite is too strong.

 

 

I would use McDavid, Crosby, Draisaitl, Kane and Panarin or names like that as Elite. I think there are few players who are and are reserved for players who vie for a Hart, Art Ross Trophy perennially. 

 

Monahan wins face-offs and scores goals. He's trying to develop into a two-way player but it's affecting his game a lot/or he is injured (which happens too much in my opinion). Perhaps injuries and needing to get over them has also hindered his development over the years as well.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I actually think that adding Risto increases the cost, not just a salary dump.

Stick to the simple deal and add a pick or a prospect like Phillips if that's what it takes.

 

TBH, I don't even know if Eichel should be a target.

A lot of stink from Buffalo.

Neck surgery this summer.

 

Maybe we would do Tkachuk to Philly for Konecny and Patrick.

One of those is a risky deal.

The other is a player position we actually need.

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Konecny

Mangiapane-Monahan-Patrick

 

 

 

 

I agree! I think the team is going to want to contend. It will take 2-3 years to recoup the extra that you give up in a deal for Eichel. Will players like Zary and Pelletier move up those ranks fast enough to make up for it? Who on the farm can come in and fill the holes? 

 

I think hockey deals like you're suggesting makes more sense. We thought there'd be at least one of those last off season. I wonder how frail Patrick is? Could be a good route. If they're going to keep Monahan, I hope it gets clearer whether we'd make the playoffs or not, and if not, shut him down and let him heal then prep for next year.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I would use McDavid, Crosby, Draisaitl, Kane and Panarin or names like that as Elite. I think there are few players who are and are reserved for players who vie for a Hart, Art Ross Trophy perennially. 

 

Monahan wins face-offs and scores goals. He's trying to develop into a two-way player but it's affecting his game a lot/or he is injured (which happens too much in my opinion). Perhaps injuries and needing to get over them has also hindered his development over the years as well.

 

Elite C's are a smaller list by that standard.

Panarin and Kane don't count.

 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I agree! I think the team is going to want to contend. It will take 2-3 years to recoup the extra that you give up in a deal for Eichel. Will players like Zary and Pelletier move up those ranks fast enough to make up for it? Who on the farm can come in and fill the holes? 

 

I think hockey deals like you're suggesting makes more sense. We thought there'd be at least one of those last off season. I wonder how frail Patrick is? Could be a good route. If they're going to keep Monahan, I hope it gets clearer whether we'd make the playoffs or not, and if not, shut him down and let him heal then prep for next year.

 

Patrick is a migraine risk, so similar to a player like Ferland.

Might have to retire.

I'm just thinking that Philly needs as much a player like Tkachuk as they do Gaudreau.

He would draw the fans just as much, if not more.

They would love him there.

 

The COVID climate and pending expansion draft really lower the value of those types of trades.

Had it happened we would be down a player that might have been the wrong one to deal.

 

But, I will say it's possible that Tkachuk is injured and just won't come out.

If true, then I would send him to skating school after recovery.

He sucks generating speed.

Gio looks better than him at times.

 

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Patrick is a migraine risk, so similar to a player like Ferland.

Might have to retire.

I'm just thinking that Philly needs as much a player like Tkachuk as they do Gaudreau.

He would draw the fans just as much, if not more.

They would love him there.

 

The COVID climate and pending expansion draft really lower the value of those types of trades.

Had it happened we would be down a player that might have been the wrong one to deal.

 

But, I will say it's possible that Tkachuk is injured and just won't come out.

If true, then I would send him to skating school after recovery.

He sucks generating speed.

Gio looks better than him at times.

 

 

 

Thing is, speed hasn't really been a problem for him until this year. You could be right about an injury and it could be a pulled leg muscle? Harder to accelerate? He hasn't been the greatest of skaters, but I don't think he has looked as terrible as he has this year. 

 

Plus the whole "trying to do too much" can be akin to Bennett. When he'd try doing it all himself it is a lot easier to stop him, and perhaps Tkachuk is doing the same. 

 

Tkachuk has been a very cerebral player. Quick hands and passes to open up space for himself. It's not the same this year. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

There should be anywhere from 5 to 10 teams making a legit run at Eichel this offseason.  Should be interesting.  I think we shouldn't even bother personally.  Getting Eichel means we try to win right away and we don't have the pieces. We will end up in mediocrity.

 

We should just retool/rebuild and target the 2022 and 2023 draft with high picks. 

If I could "like" this comment I would.

[sak22]

57 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, you can call it a stretch, but if you mention Nate MacKinnon in a different light, you are wrong.

How many players regularly score move than 20 goals per season?  More than 30?

Not many.

If your standard is Matthews, then I will agree elite is too strong.

Why is that?  Because MacKinnon had down years.  If a player at his best still isn't in the top 5 or top 10 for his position, he isn't elite.  Phil Kessel had 11 straight 20 goal seasons, I don't consider him an elite winger.  Elite is a small group, and no Flame is part of that group.

[travel_dude]

18 hours ago, sak22 said:

Why is that?  Because MacKinnon had down years.  If a player at his best still isn't in the top 5 or top 10 for his position, he isn't elite.  Phil Kessel had 11 straight 20 goal seasons, I don't consider him an elite winger.  Elite is a small group, and no Flame is part of that group.

 

I think you are getting too caught up in a word to describe top players.

And I was only talking about centres not wingers.

I would describe Monahan in the same group as MacKinnon.

Call them potatoes.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you are getting too caught up in a word to describe top players.

And I was only talking about centres not wingers.

I would describe Monahan in the same group as MacKinnon.

Call them potatoes.

 

or Potawtoes. Let’s call the whole thing off!

 

Monahan is no McKinnon 

[travel_dude]

18 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

or Potawtoes. Let’s call the whole thing off!

 

Monahan is no McKinnon 

 

I get the flack he gets for playoff performance, as well as having a down year.  He doesn't drive play himself like MacKinnon.  He doesn't score like Draisaitl.  

The depth is the problem.  Having a playmaker is great if you have multiple options for the passing.

MacKinnon has played on a better top 6 than Monahan.

[travel_dude]

I am beginning to think Tkachuk is the one that needs to go.

Unless he is severly injured, there is no excuse for his declining play.

I can't even predict what he is worth after this season.

Last 10 games where we needed wins, 2 assists, one beng on the PP.

[The_People1]

41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I am beginning to think Tkachuk is the one that needs to go.

Unless he is severly injured, there is no excuse for his declining play.

I can't even predict what he is worth after this season.

Last 10 games where we needed wins, 2 assists, one beng on the PP.

 

He plays best when he's agitating but I feel someone asked him to tone it down.  And with that, the rest of his game can't get going.  Some players need that fire and energy.

 

Tkachuk is just coasting around and he's clearly not playing with confidence around the net.  He's hesitating and missing passes.

 

He's not the first guy I trade but I don't mind shopping him to see what we can get.  There should be no untouchables after a season like this.

[rocketdoctor]

He is the first out the door for me.

 

Stupid no look passes.  Trying the fancy stuff al lthe time rather than keep it basic.   He looks like he is skating through treacle

 

The time the team needs an agitator to step up he is invisible.  When was the last time he drew a penalty?

 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

He plays best when he's agitating but I feel someone asked him to tone it down.  And with that, the rest of his game can't get going.  Some players need that fire and energy.

 

Tkachuk is just coasting around and he's clearly not playing with confidence around the net.  He's hesitating and missing passes.

 

He's not the first guy I trade but I don't mind shopping him to see what we can get.  There should be no untouchables after a season like this.

 

4 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

He is the first out the door for me.

 

Stupid no look passes.  Trying the fancy stuff al lthe time rather than keep it basic.   He looks like he is skating through treacle

 

The time the team needs an agitator to step up he is invisible.  When was the last time he drew a penalty?

 

 

 

 

 

So a bit of both.  If Sutter is aware of any supposed requests, then he should have shut it down.

He looks like a fish out of water.

[pikey7883]

I have been very unimpressed by Tkachuk lately, and I am a very big fan of his. I’m a generational fan of that family, Keith is the reason I where 7 to this day. 
But other than being a good sell high option. What are the pros and cons of moving on from a player like this. He is basically on par with Corey Perry compared to his first 5 seasons, he is a lot further ahead that Marchand in his first five seasons. 
Knowing the careers they’ve had, could you imagine teams giving up on those players? Both of those guys eventually went on to help their teams win Stanley Cups. 
For me he has been invisible and irritating (and not in a good way), but if we trade him, this team is in terrible shape (signifying an abysmal high end talent analysis and development) losing a 4OA and a 6OA in one year. 2 guys that should’ve been who you build a team around. Not sure who that’s gonna be on, but it’s not time to cash in chips for Tkachuk

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I have been very unimpressed by Tkachuk lately, and I am a very big fan of his. I’m a generational fan of that family, Keith is the reason I where 7 to this day. 
But other than being a good sell high option. What are the pros and cons of moving on from a player like this. He is basically on par with Corey Perry compared to his first 5 seasons, he is a lot further ahead that Marchand in his first five seasons. 
Knowing the careers they’ve had, could you imagine teams giving up on those players? Both of those guys eventually went on to help their teams win Stanley Cups. 
For me he has been invisible and irritating (and not in a good way), but if we trade him, this team is in terrible shape (signifying an abysmal high end talent analysis and development) losing a 4OA and a 6OA in one year. 2 guys that should’ve been who you build a team around. Not sure who that’s gonna be on, but it’s not time to cash in chips for Tkachuk

 

He has one year left where he makes $9m and we have to qualify him at that at a minimum.

If he's truly part of the solution, then he needs to step up big time or shut it down and get whatever surgery he needs.

This half-arsed play is wasting play.

Killing offense.

Causing turnovers.

 

Any trade involving Tkachuk is for the future.

Future cap.

Future dynamic players.

[ABC923]

2 hours ago, pikey7883 said:

I have been very unimpressed by Tkachuk lately, and I am a very big fan of his. I’m a generational fan of that family, Keith is the reason I where 7 to this day. 
But other than being a good sell high option. What are the pros and cons of moving on from a player like this. He is basically on par with Corey Perry compared to his first 5 seasons, he is a lot further ahead that Marchand in his first five seasons. 
Knowing the careers they’ve had, could you imagine teams giving up on those players? Both of those guys eventually went on to help their teams win Stanley Cups. 
For me he has been invisible and irritating (and not in a good way), but if we trade him, this team is in terrible shape (signifying an abysmal high end talent analysis and development) losing a 4OA and a 6OA in one year. 2 guys that should’ve been who you build a team around. Not sure who that’s gonna be on, but it’s not time to cash in chips for Tkachuk

I have to agree. that trading him would likely be a mistake. If he's part of a package bringing in a guy like Eichel I can get my head around that, but otherwise we are moving a guy who scored at a 70+ point pace two seasons in a row because he had an off season in a year where the team was bad as a whole with only a handful of players not having a bad season. He's only 23, and we (as fans) have gone from future captain to locker room poison and relative bust in four short months.  The whole team needs a reset at the very least in the offseason, a clear their heads, get patched up if possible, and try to forget this miserable season. I'd look for Tkachuk to start fresh next season with more of his regular fire.

 

As an aside, it's probably worth noting he is shooting 7.9% compared to his career average of 12.2. If he shot his average, he'd have 5 more goals and be on pace for 61 points and 26 goals over 82 games, a decent if unspectacular season by his standards.

[bigfaninlethbridge]

tkachuk got screwed by his team mates.  he wore his heart on his sleeve and everybody else sat back and watched while he was knee deep in the shizz. then his team mates stabbed him in the back telling him that basically he was the problem with stirring crap up.  funny that wasn't a problem when the team was winning though was it?  i don't blame him for losing interest, his team did long ago.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

I have to agree. that trading him would likely be a mistake. If he's part of a package bringing in a guy like Eichel I can get my head around that, but otherwise we are moving a guy who scored at a 70+ point pace two seasons in a row because he had an off season in a year where the team was bad as a whole with only a handful of players not having a bad season. He's only 23, and we (as fans) have gone from future captain to locker room poison and relative bust in four short months.  The whole team needs a reset at the very least in the offseason, a clear their heads, get patched up if possible, and try to forget this miserable season. I'd look for Tkachuk to start fresh next season with more of his regular fire.

 

As an aside, it's probably worth noting he is shooting 7.9% compared to his career average of 12.2. If he shot his average, he'd have 5 more goals and be on pace for 61 points and 26 goals over 82 games, a decent if unspectacular season by his standards.

 

Compared to the team he doesn't look so bad.

Yes, it would be a mistake to trade him and see him get 70 points.

But there is something broken here.

Whether that is Gio, or and injury or him being coached to do things a certain way, it's not working.

 

If you are going to commit to $9m, then it has to be a player that is 100% driven.

Last year's Tkachuk at worst.

50% Tkachuk is not worth it.

If he wants out, then trade him for the best possible.

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, bigfaninlethbridge said:

tkachuk got screwed by his team mates.  he wore his heart on his sleeve and everybody else sat back and watched while he was knee deep in the shizz. then his team mates stabbed him in the back telling him that basically he was the problem with stirring crap up.  funny that wasn't a problem when the team was winning though was it?  i don't blame him for losing interest, his team did long ago.

 

The Muzzin incident.  Literally no one on the ice saw what happened because the horn sounded and everyone skating to the bench.  So can't blame the teammates really.  It was mass confusion for them. Tkachuk was immature slamming the door on his linemates.

[bigfaninlethbridge]

53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The Muzzin incident.  Literally no one on the ice saw what happened because the horn sounded and everyone skating to the bench.  So can't blame the teammates really.  It was mass confusion for them. Tkachuk was immature slamming the door on his linemates.

I wasn't talking specifically about the muzzin incident at all, but yes that is part of it.  and nobody left the ice, they sat there and watched him take it with nobody coming to his side.

Here's the video... the entire line was right there watching and doing nothing else.  Not one of them left the ice.  BUT, when you do see your linemate deep into it with four opposing jerseys on top of him you leap in to help them.  You don't leisurely skate up there to who wants tea and crumpets.  You steamroll the dicks that are pounding on your line mate.  This team is not cohesive, they don't like each other, and will not take a punch for one another.  The one player who would got blasted by his own team for it.  Ridiculous.  (OK there are two, Lucic too)

 

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, bigfaninlethbridge said:

I wasn't talking specifically about the muzzin incident at all, but yes that is part of it.  and nobody left the ice, they sat there and watched him take it with nobody coming to his side.

Here's the video... the entire line was right there watching and doing nothing else.  Not one of them left the ice:

 

 

I meant no one saw what happened.  I'm sure if they did then everyone would've responded differently.  

[bigfaninlethbridge]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

I meant no one saw what happened.  I'm sure if they did then everyone would've responded differently.  

Yes I figured that when I re-read your post.  I edited mine to address that.   When you turn back and see your team mate surrounded by opposing jerseys you defend him first and ask questions later.  This team did nothing of the sort.

[The_People1]

46 minutes ago, bigfaninlethbridge said:

Yes I figured that when I re-read your post.  I edited mine to address that.   When you turn back and see your team mate surrounded by opposing jerseys you defend him first and ask questions later.  This team did nothing of the sort.

 

One reason I feel we have to bring back Ritchie next season is he actually stands up for teammates so yes, this team lacks the will to stand up for one another.  It's something to address for sure.