Matthew Tkachuk

[bigfaninlethbridge]

There are 3 players on this team IMO that are carrying the load in the "heart" department.  Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Lucic.  Mango is still too young and not established, To me it's between Lucic and Tkachuk.  Lucic has the heart of a lion but is aging and slowing and just doesn't have the talent.  Tkachuk is IMO the defacto captain anyways.  Give him the real leadership and see if this team starts to follow him.

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, bigfaninlethbridge said:

There are 3 players on this team IMO that are carrying the load in the "heart" department.  Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Lucic.  Mango is still too young and not established, To me it's between Lucic and Tkachuk.  Lucic has the heart of a lion but is aging and slowing and just doesn't have the talent.  Tkachuk is IMO the defacto captain anyways.  Give him the real leadership and see if this team starts to follow him.

the thing is, maybe Tkachuk cares too much why he’s playing like crap this year, but I just haven’t seen it. 
 

Id maybe say Ryan has been that guy who continues to perform his play. 
 

you could also add Dube to your list, but is still too young to be effective enough. 
 

Tanev might be another but when it’s the new guy outplaying everyone, then the teams got problems. 
 

[MP5029]

12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I think I saw that Laughton is 27. If he costs too much, then no. 

 

I think that it would take a lot more to get Reinhart and Eichel than Gaudreau, Monahan and a pick or prospect. I think it takes one more big piece for it to happen if it's Monahan and Gaudreau. Monahan, Lindholm and Gaudreau, or soemthing like that. I think that Monahan and Gaudreau won't get it done for Eichel. Maybe Tkachuk and Lindholm. But I don't think that Tkachuk and Monahan would get it done. I almost think they'd need a C back. I could see it being, Gaudreau, Monahan, and Dube or Mangiapane for Eichel, possibly even more? I am not trying to devalue our players, just that I think a lot of people probably would see their value as being lowered and Eichel is a franchise centerman. 

 

The biggest issue I see us having is that we don't have a #1C to trade with them. Do they see themselves as having one in the pipelines? Tough call. 

Yes I did see that too...he could be a good option if they decide to trade Lindholm 

[robrob74]

11 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Yes I did see that too...he could be a good option if they decide to trade Lindholm 

 

I think if you're planning to use Lindholm at C and trading Monahan or keeping Monahan and trading Lindholm, either way we are going to need a 3rd line C. I doubt they trade Backlund. I dont know if Backlund is a #2 or #3. I think he has played poorly because he doesn't have his normal #2 guys with him. He normally props people up and you can only prop Lucic up so far. 

[MP5029]

Backlund is and always has been a solid #3 Ctr...only on the flames was he a #2...which sure, he’s capable of filling in at #2 Ctr but he’s best suited for 3rd line Ctr duties

 

bit 

[JTech780]

This pretty much sums up Tkachuk's season. Tries to go for the skilled highlight reel play, instead of making the direct/correct play (passing to Gaudreau streaking up the wing). It's like he watched his highlights on repeat in the offseason and then decided that's who he is.

 

His success comes from making the smart play, the direct play, the skilled plays (between the legs goals) were always gravy, but that's not what made him special as a player.

 

Hopefully he figures it out soon. I think Sutter needs to show him some tough love.

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

This pretty much sums up Tkachuk's season. Tries to go for the skilled highlight reel play, instead of making the direct/correct play (passing to Gaudreau streaking up the wing). It's like he watched his highlights on repeat in the offseason and then decided that's who he is.

 

His success comes from making the smart play, the direct play, the skilled plays (between the legs goals) were always gravy, but that's not what made him special as a player.

 

Hopefully he figures it out soon. I think Sutter needs to show him some tough love.

 

This theme seems to be all too familiar.  The falling part is almost what you expect from a toddler.  Yeah, he blew and edge, but if you can't skate on your edges, don't use them.   A minute 45 and the goalie just leaving the net, and he won't even make a direct play to get the puck in deep.  I don't think the way they broke out as a group was very smart, but it seemed like everyone was waiting for Tkachuk to pass, except Tkachuk.  Much like the Scheifele goal where he fell, he's looking like he gives up way to easily.

 

Perhaps there is some friction about playing a skill game, but Tkachuk isn't making the simple things look good.  Monahan was played on the 2nd PP unit, yet he is not the biggest liability out there.  In fact, he is playing with more intelligence than our highest paid player.  He's only rarely doing good things on the PP.  Maybe give Gaudreau and Lindholm a player that gives 100% (or a crap).  

 

EDIT - Criticizing Tkachuk here, but both Gaudreau and Valimaki gave the pucks away on multiple occasions.  Hanifin's play on the shortie was key as well.  When your mistakes end up in the net, then you aren't going to win many games.

[cross16]

I've said this before but for me Tkachuk is trying to do too much this year. It started with public comments he made early in the season about how he felt he needed to be the guy to get them going and it's really shown up in his play. I think he means well, he's trying to take over in the leadership department but that tends to come organically and he's trying to manufacture it. I feel for him, but it's got to be like quick sand right now where he just can't get out of it. 

 

I'm not sure if it's tough love or not, but for me Tkachuk needs to start realizing what his game is and where his limitations lie. He seems to think he can be the guy who leads a team and puts them on his back with his play and for me he isn't that guy and doesn't have that in his game. He can drag his teammates into the fight with his heart, character and will, he can be a top notch offensive complimentary piece, but I don't think he's Iginla like in that he can just go "ok guys watch me" and will them to win. Needs to find his way again I think. 

 

Poor time for a slump too given he's an RFA next summer and due a 9mill qualifying offer. Adding him to list of potential issues this organization needs to start sorting out. 

[JTech780]

As much as I like Tkachuk, which is a lot, I would be looking to move him this offseason. Not saying they have to move him, but I would field calls on him, to see what his market is.

 

I just think his skating is going to hold him back from being a game changer, and his skating is going to get worse before it gets better.

[RickP]

New to posting on here so please don't light me up until I get a couple under my belt. lol!

 

Anyways if as far as Tkachuk goes I 100% agree with JTech, love watching him so long as he's a flame but can't help but wonder what Ottawa might be willing to offer to get him and his brother together??  

[cross16]

I think the Flames have reached the point where no one is untouchable. They need to consider any and all options on any player prospect etc. 

 

Obviously prices will, and should, vary dependent on who you are talking about but they would be wrong to limit their options in turning this around. 

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think the Flames have reached the point where no one is untouchable. They need to consider any and all options on any player prospect etc. 

 

Obviously prices will, and should, vary dependent on who you are talking about but they would be wrong to limit their options in turning this around. 

 

I used to see Tkachuk as part of the solution, but this season I don't even know what to think anymore.

What made him a special player has completely dried up.

The key date that jumps out is the player-only meeting.

Coincidental or not, it sticks out.

 

 

[MP5029]

Yeah, I have to agree, it’s like he’s had a leash around him since that meeting...the problem is he an agitator who can put up some great numbers when he’s got the opposition off their game by being that elite agitator...since he’s not doing that then opposing side has been able to control the pace of most games against the flames...so either let Tachuck off his leash, hopefully he returns to form or...consider offers on him...

 

in any case I think every player on this team needs to be considered as a movable asset especially the “core” it’s lost its way time to do a quick rebuild...but do it properly.

 

hoping BT sees it’s time for a fire sale...Gio, Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, Dube, Heck even Lindhom and Tachuck at this point..it seems the whole of this core has rotted away time to show them you need to earn your money...

[The_People1]

Tkachuk + Lindholm for Eichel should be seriously considered.  It's a very competitive offer.  Tkachuk gives them RFA control and Lindholm is one of the best contracts in the NHL and BUF could use that.

 

Anyways, no one should be untouchable.  Even Valimaki and Andersson.  

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Tkachuk + Lindholm for Eichel should be seriously considered.  It's a very competitive offer.  Tkachuk gives them RFA control and Lindholm is one of the best contracts in the NHL and BUF could use that.

 

Anyways, no one should be untouchable.  Even Valimaki and Andersson.  

 

I would be happy with Tkachuk + Monahan for Eichel.

The NTC would be an issue.

But I think it gives us a better outlook.

 

Gaudreau-Eichel-?

Mangiapane-Lindholm-?

 

Seems to me we can build a better roster with those 4 pieces.  Elusive RW's of course, but should be easier than getting a top C. 

 

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would be happy with Tkachuk + Monahan for Eichel.

The NTC would be an issue.

But I think it gives us a better outlook.

 

Gaudreau-Eichel-?

Mangiapane-Lindholm-?

 

Seems to me we can build a better roster with those 4 pieces.  Elusive RW's of course, but should be easier than getting a top C. 

 

 

Monahan doesn't have the same trade value as Lindholm.  It's not going to get it done.

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Monahan doesn't have the same trade value as Lindholm.  It's not going to get it done.

 

A (former) elite scoring C vs a complimentary C/RW that is on a value contract.

They already have Reinhart, who is probably a similar style to Lindholm.

Tkachuk should be worth 3/4 of the asking price for Eichel alone.

 

If you break it down, they get a C that has scored at a level equal to or higher than Eichel.

They get a young LW that plays a physical game at both ends of the ice.

 

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

A (former) elite scoring C vs a complimentary C/RW that is on a value contract.

They already have Reinhart, who is probably a similar style to Lindholm.

Tkachuk should be worth 3/4 of the asking price for Eichel alone.

 

If you break it down, they get a C that has scored at a level equal to or higher than Eichel.

They get a young LW that plays a physical game at both ends of the ice.

 

 

I agree we should trade Monahan instead of Lindholm.  Of course we should.  It's just, the trade value isn't there.  Monahan is walking after 1 year.   Lindholm is locked up longer and putting up better numbers this season.

 

Also, we have to out compete other offers and Lindholm helps compete better.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I agree we should trade Monahan instead of Lindholm.  Of course we should.  It's just, the trade value isn't there.  Monahan is walking after 1 year.   Lindholm is locked up longer and putting up better numbers this season.

 

Also, we have to out compete other offers and Lindholm helps compete better.

 

Monahan has two years remaining after this year.  Tkachuk remains under team control after one year.

I don't see many teams offering up two young players on decent deals (for now).

Maybe I'm wrong, but the offers would be closer to a Tkachuk, a top prospect and a 1st.

Could be wrong, but I don't see that many teams that can match. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Monahan has two years remaining after this year.  Tkachuk remains under team control after one year.

I don't see many teams offering up two young players on decent deals (for now).

Maybe I'm wrong, but the offers would be closer to a Tkachuk, a top prospect and a 1st.

Could be wrong, but I don't see that many teams that can match. 

 

There should be anywhere from 5 to 10 teams making a legit run at Eichel this offseason.  Should be interesting.  I think we shouldn't even bother personally.  Getting Eichel means we try to win right away and we don't have the pieces. We will end up in mediocrity.

 

We should just retool/rebuild and target the 2022 and 2023 draft with high picks. 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

I've said this before but for me Tkachuk is trying to do too much this year. It started with public comments he made early in the season about how he felt he needed to be the guy to get them going and it's really shown up in his play. I think he means well, he's trying to take over in the leadership department but that tends to come organically and he's trying to manufacture it. I feel for him, but it's got to be like quick sand right now where he just can't get out of it. 

 

I'm not sure if it's tough love or not, but for me Tkachuk needs to start realizing what his game is and where his limitations lie. He seems to think he can be the guy who leads a team and puts them on his back with his play and for me he isn't that guy and doesn't have that in his game. He can drag his teammates into the fight with his heart, character and will, he can be a top notch offensive complimentary piece, but I don't think he's Iginla like in that he can just go "ok guys watch me" and will them to win. Needs to find his way again I think. 

 

Poor time for a slump too given he's an RFA next summer and due a 9mill qualifying offer. Adding him to list of potential issues this organization needs to start sorting out. 

 

 

I don't know if this coincides with not playing with Backlund or if it is him trying to do too much? Is he a better player when with Backlund? Or is it him trying to do too much or trying too hard to be the skill/the man? I wonder if Backlund gives him the ability to play his game, as Backs is a puck carrier skilled guy and Tkachuk just does those things, quick smart plays where it's on and off of his stick instead of trying to do too much with it. Tough call, but I think it might have to do with how each line is deployed. I wonder if Backlund does ground him a bit. He defaults to good ol Tkachuk when with Backlund. 

 

 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

A (former) elite scoring C vs a complimentary C/RW that is on a value contract.

They already have Reinhart, who is probably a similar style to Lindholm.

Tkachuk should be worth 3/4 of the asking price for Eichel alone.

 

If you break it down, they get a C that has scored at a level equal to or higher than Eichel.

They get a young LW that plays a physical game at both ends of the ice.

 

Monahan should be at least half the price, so you're not far off on the 3/4. So with 1/2, Tkachuck is another half. I you have to throw in a pick or prospect, then maybe do it? This deal if you have to outbid teams:

 

Monahan, Tkachuk, Andersson

 

For

Eichel, Ristolainen

 

Gaudreau, Eichel, XXX

Mangiapane, Lindholm, Dube

Lucic, Backlund, Leivo

Nordstrom, Ryan, Ritchie

 

Hanifin, Tanev

Valamaki, Ristolainen

Kylington/Mackey, XXX

[sak22]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

A (former) elite scoring C vs a complimentary C/RW that is on a value contract.

They already have Reinhart, who is probably a similar style to Lindholm.

Tkachuk should be worth 3/4 of the asking price for Eichel alone.

 

If you break it down, they get a C that has scored at a level equal to or higher than Eichel.

They get a young LW that plays a physical game at both ends of the ice.

 

 

 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

There should be anywhere from 5 to 10 teams making a legit run at Eichel this offseason.  Should be interesting.  I think we shouldn't even bother personally.  Getting Eichel means we try to win right away and we don't have the pieces. We will end up in mediocrity.

 

We should just retool/rebuild and target the 2022 and 2023 draft with high picks. 

 

 

I kind of agree with this! Unless you think any of our prospects are ready, we have too many balls on the table before trying to go for the 8ball. Packaging more than one piece puts us even further behind on the Roster. 

 

I just think the competing teams are going to raise the price tag. 

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

 

 

So, you can call it a stretch, but if you mention Nate MacKinnon in a different light, you are wrong.

How many players regularly score move than 20 goals per season?  More than 30?

Not many.

If your standard is Matthews, then I will agree elite is too strong.