Andrew Mangiapane

[jjgallow]

56 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Poor Montreal with all their small players and big defense.

The scorched earth is a good idea.

We can have the Young Guns era for about 10 years while we trade and draft and trade.

 

The problem with building only through the draft is you never get it right.

You have to sign FA's and trade for vets to get to the right level.

 

 

I do love sarcasm, I won't deny it.

 

But using Montreal as a standard could be a bit premature.  It was nice of Bettman to let one Canadian team go this far due to NHL playoff scheduling, that is all we can say right now.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

Scorched Earth never really works, simply that if you are looking to trade say 10 players off our roster you will be giving some of them away. There simply isn’t a trade market big enough to absorb that many players from a single team. If you wanted to trade Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, and Lindholm in the same off season for picks, you aren’t getting 1st rounders back in more than 2 of those trades. Each player added to the trading block dilutes the market and returns diminish with each move.

it has to be staggered. Trade one or two now, then some TDL to a team that’ll have some expiring contracts coming up. 
 

but I almost think that might be a bit of what’s wrong with salary structures in the NHL, there’s not enough of a buffer on most teams to make deals. I don’t know what the answers are, but just my theory. I think it’s also dangerous if there’s something like the pandemic or the salary structures get altered. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

It’s a really tough call…I’m on the side of both camps too…but I have said this a lot…30+ guys have to go maybe one 1 and one forward at 30+ but that’s it…Hockey is a young man’s game.

 

and with that said, this is the twilight of the this current core as most are 25-30 (closer to 30 side) so it’s a bit of a tough call.

 

I’m of the thought process that we give Sutter a shot for 2 more years with most but not all of the core guys, including Monahan and Gaudreau but that’s as much much slack in the preverbal leash I’d allow if I were the GM..and that would totally depend on next season, if it’s anything like the past 2 I’m definitely gonna be on the trade everyone and everything.

 

having said that, I do think it’s worth trying to fix the holes and see how things shake out for one more season…it would be nice to see some balance and size through the line up, maybe a few legit top line RW’s  to start, maybe let a few of the older guys go like Gio, Lucic (wishful thinking) Backlund and a few others, replace them with under 30 guys and see how the season goes under Sutter…if anything I don’t see any of the main guys trade value drop but maybe increase with a good season.

 

I think for the most part the whole coaching circus had kinda messed up the whole team including Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm and Tachuck so maybe a year of a stable hard nose coach can if nothing else bring those guys back on line so their value is where it should be.

There needs  to be changes made for sure but I think you're tying too much into age. Currently the Isles have over 7 players 30+, as do the Bolts, Habs and Knights.  Doesnt seem to be hindering their successes so far.  Regardless of age there just needs to be more give-a-s**t attitude CONSTANTLY, whether the team is 23 or 32 years old is pointless if no one can figure out how to get a constant effort in. 

 

Thats where Mangi stands out, you know regardless of who he's with and whats happening in the game you're going to get a 100% effort.

 

Getting rid of one of the only players who gives you what is sorely needed would be a regrettable mistake.

[MP5029]

8 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

There needs  to be changes made for sure but I think you're tying too much into age. Currently the Isles have over 7 players 30+, as do the Bolts, Habs and Knights.  Doesnt seem to be hindering their successes so far.  Regardless of age there just needs to be more give-a-s**t attitude CONSTANTLY, whether the team is 23 or 32 years old is pointless if no one can figure out how to get a constant effort in. 

 

Thats where Mangi stands out, you know regardless of who he's with and whats happening in the game you're going to get a 100% effort.

 

Getting rid of one of the only players who gives you what is sorely needed would be a regrettable mistake.

The age thing is absolutely important, look at some of then superstar’s over 30 Stamkos included, Crosby, Ovechkin etc…they are all declining and all 30+, having said that they are all generational players listed so they are able to play above average hockey into their 30’s 

 

thing is they are rare players, which we haven’t had here in Cgy since well Iggy would be the last one anywhere near them.

 

so, taking on older players is not the best way to move forward, especially where this team has a closing window, they need younger players now so with any luck in 2-3 years they may be ready to play full time and take over for this aging core of good players (not great or generational players, good players on average cap out around 30 and become ok players, above average players become good, meaning 3rd liners) the point here is Cgy has rode the above average train on this core to pretty much it’s max life expectancy, they are declining.

 

it’s time for new blood now so as to not get too far behind the rebuild and restock some young Gaudreau’s, Monahan’s and Gio’s etc…hopefully Thai time around Cgy may get lucky and land a generational talent a key piece missing in the last rebuild.

 

now having said that, I’m not saying to trade gaudreau and Monahan now, they still have life and can overlap the transition, but Dube and Manji are not going to move the team forward regardless so, they may be the best trade value to build For the future 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

it’s time for new blood now so as to not get too far behind the rebuild and restock some young Gaudreau’s, Monahan’s and Gio’s etc…hopefully Thai time around Cgy may get lucky and land a generational talent a key piece missing in the last rebuild.

 

now having said that, I’m not saying to trade gaudreau and Monahan now, they still have life and can overlap the transition, but Dube and Manji are not going to move the team forward regardless so, they may be the best trade value to build For the future 

 

I'm not sure I get the hate for Monahan and Gaudreau.  They were primarily the reason that CGY has been competitive over the last 5 years.

Some may argue they don't move the needle like other team's top stars, but expecting some rapid decline in the next 5 years is just silly.

Perhaps we need to have more players like them.

Like your future stars Mangiapane and possibly Dube.

Are we going to continue just playing them where there is a free spot?

 

New blood is fine, but let's look at the roster and see where the real problem were this season.

No #2RW.

Injured Monahan, so no #2C option to shut him down, even though that made the most sense.

Putrid 4th line depth.

3rd line depth that included Lucic as a scoring threat.

 

Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk may bring back the best return, but it isn't going to fix our problems unless they are better players coming.

Or we get enough top 6 players in return to make up for the loss.

You want to trade Tkachuk for Eichel?  Fine, that makes sense.

Mangiapane for at best as top 6 winger?  Fine, if they bring the same determination they are trading away.

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

The age thing is absolutely important, look at some of then superstar’s over 30 Stamkos included, Crosby, Ovechkin etc…they are all declining and all 30+, having said that they are all generational players listed so they are able to play above average hockey into their 30’s 

 

thing is they are rare players, which we haven’t had here in Cgy since well Iggy would be the last one anywhere near them.

 

so, taking on older players is not the best way to move forward, especially where this team has a closing window, they need younger players now so with any luck in 2-3 years they may be ready to play full time and take over for this aging core of good players (not great or generational players, good players on average cap out around 30 and become ok players, above average players become good, meaning 3rd liners) the point here is Cgy has rode the above average train on this core to pretty much it’s max life expectancy, they are declining.

 

it’s time for new blood now so as to not get too far behind the rebuild and restock some young Gaudreau’s, Monahan’s and Gio’s etc…hopefully Thai time around Cgy may get lucky and land a generational talent a key piece missing in the last rebuild.

 

now having said that, I’m not saying to trade gaudreau and Monahan now, they still have life and can overlap the transition, but Dube and Manji are not going to move the team forward regardless so, they may be the best trade value to build For the future 

My big issue is so much of these decisions rely on what version of Johnny and what version of Chucky you see next season.  Lets put it this way, next year Johnny, Mangi and Chucky are up, the club wont re-sign all 3 so who do we think will be best value by then? Will Johnny be worth the 7+ mill he'd prob fetch in the open market? Will Chucky be worth his QO? If Mangi has another productive year his value jumps significantly.

 

Contrary to other opinions I believe put on the left side Mangi is a more than effective #2LW so extend Mangi now ($5mil?) and see what can be had by dangling one of the others. Of the 3 you know Mangi gets you the least in return, and unless you're going full rebuild you need the best return now.

 

 

[cross16]

On 6/12/2021 at 1:23 PM, robrob74 said:

 

 

one thing I will say is he has played a lot of time with Backlund who is an excellent possession center, while Ryan on a 4th line is pretty good at possession too. 4th line, he’s not going to see the toughest of opponents, while with Backs he will see harder guys to play against. Harder, but I wouldn’t say the toughest. Gaudreau is still going to get the most defensive guys. 
 

not to discount Mangiapane… just how I see it. 
 

Since his numbers are better, let’s play Mangiapane over Johnny then. We need to get into the playoffs. 
 

what if his numbers are good because the way he plays, limiting his minutes allows him to play at that level. If he gets more time, does he score at the same rate and get more points, or does he get tired and score at lowered rates? 
 

I am not too high on his Worlds performance. It’s awesome and feel good, but it’s not like the opponents are 1st liners in the NHL. 

 

Not really how it plays out though. Mang actually draws a higher % of his ice time against better competition than Gaudreau does. It's not drastically different but the only players the last 2 season who have consistently drawn tougher matchups than Mang are Lindhom and Tkachuk.  Also, Mang's numbers are good no matter who he plays with and this past season, it was Mang who was brining up the numbers of his teammates and not the other way around.

 

I'm not trying to argue Mang is better or should be played above Gaudreau. Gaudreau makes sense to play him where he does because were he excels is creating offence and he is still one of the best in the league at that. 

 

At the end of the day, the Flames have 3 very good LWers and need to find a way to get all of the more opportunities, IMO. Multiple ways you can accomplish that, be it in Calgary or somewhere else, and that is something management should be trying to do. 

[MP5029]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not really how it plays out though. Mang actually draws a higher % of his ice time against better competition than Gaudreau does. It's not drastically different but the only players the last 2 season who have consistently drawn tougher matchups than Mang are Lindhom and Tkachuk.  Also, Mang's numbers are good no matter who he plays with and this past season, it was Mang who was brining up the numbers of his teammates and not the other way around.

 

I'm not trying to argue Mang is better or should be played above Gaudreau. Gaudreau makes sense to play him where he does because were he excels is creating offence and he is still one of the best in the league at that. 

 

At the end of the day, the Flames have 3 very good LWers and need to find a way to get all of the more opportunities, IMO. Multiple ways you can accomplish that, be it in Calgary or somewhere else, and that is something management should be trying to do. 

That’s the big issue, the simple fact is we are only gonna keep 2 of the three LW’s can’t afford to keep all of them so the choices are:

 

Tkacuck/Gaudreau

Takcuck/Manji

Gaudreau/Manji

 

of those option I think the Tkacuck/Gaudreau option is gonna cost way too much to be a realistic option so it’s either Tachuck or Gaudreau and Manji (unless he’s replaced via trade or FA) 

 

personally, I think Gaudreau brings back the best return on a trade, and Cgy keeps the younger 2 of the 3 LW’s which extends the window…the only issue here in is Manji is not really a 2nd line LW he’s more like an elite LW while Gaudreau and Tkacuck are both 1st line LW’s so we do need to down grade on one of them but Manji on 3rd line at 5mil (probably) is far too much, so looking at things in a logically economic way keep Tkacuck and rebuild the LW from there down, OR roll the dice on Manji on 2nd line LW…which could in fact be a value priced 2nd line LW…hopefully for less than 5mil per season over say 5 season but it’s a gamble…he may be at his top peak now…but then again gaudreau or Tachuck could flop or excel there is just no way of being 100% sure…

 

I think the lower risk lower price and potential higher reward option is Tkacuck and Manji as 1 and 2 LW while trading Gaudreau for either a 2nd line Ctr or RW would help balance out the top two lines pretty fast…could also move Dube to 3rd like LW which could in fact help bring his play and numbers up some by playing on his natural wing? This to me is probably the best asset management option, and do like Gaudreau, but between Gaudreau, Manji and Dube that’s way too many smallish players heck even keeping Dube I think is one too many but Cgy still needs to ice a team so keeping Dube (unless they manage to pick up a better yet affordable option Dube as 3rd line LW would Make sense.

 

then they need to figure out what to do with Backlund…this is where keeping Bennett would have made things soooo much easier and better, try him and 2nd line Ctr but could also slide him back to 3rd line Ctr…Backlund is too much money for 3rd line which is where he should be and not good enough to be a 2nd liner, not anymore…and if we are being honest, he’s not really what we eat form2nd line Crt anyway, we tried that with very limited success (yes it was successful to some degree, just not once playoffs came around). Anyways, I would love to see Backlund out and 2 new Ctrs in along with 2 new RW’s 

 

the other area of need is to address Gio I think BT should seriously look at moving him and bringing in a younger RSD to replace him.

 

thats a lot of offseason work and changes I’m not sure BT or any GM can manage all that but it all needs to happen.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

28 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

That’s the big issue, the simple fact is we are only gonna keep 2 of the three LW’s can’t afford to keep all of them so the choices are:

 

Tkacuck/Gaudreau

Takcuck/Manji

Gaudreau/Manji

 

of those option I think the Tkacuck/Gaudreau option is gonna cost way too much to be a realistic option so it’s either Tachuck or Gaudreau and Manji (unless he’s replaced via trade or FA) 

 

personally, I think Gaudreau brings back the best return on a trade, and Cgy keeps the younger 2 of the 3 LW’s which extends the window…the only issue here in is Manji is not really a 2nd line LW he’s more like an elite LW while Gaudreau and Tkacuck are both 1st line LW’s so we do need to down grade on one of them but Manji on 3rd line at 5mil (probably) is far too much, so looking at things in a logically economic way keep Tkacuck and rebuild the LW from there down, OR roll the dice on Manji on 2nd line LW…which could in fact be a value priced 2nd line LW…hopefully for less than 5mil per season over say 5 season but it’s a gamble…he may be at his top peak now…but then again gaudreau or Tachuck could flop or excel there is just no way of being 100% sure…

 

I think the lower risk lower price and potential higher reward option is Tkacuck and Manji as 1 and 2 LW while trading Gaudreau for either a 2nd line Ctr or RW would help balance out the top two lines pretty fast…could also move Dube to 3rd like LW which could in fact help bring his play and numbers up some by playing on his natural wing? This to me is probably the best asset management option, and do like Gaudreau, but between Gaudreau, Manji and Dube that’s way too many smallish players heck even keeping Dube I think is one too many but Cgy still needs to ice a team so keeping Dube (unless they manage to pick up a better yet affordable option Dube as 3rd line LW would Make sense.

 

then they need to figure out what to do with Backlund…this is where keeping Bennett would have made things soooo much easier and better, try him and 2nd line Ctr but could also slide him back to 3rd line Ctr…Backlund is too much money for 3rd line which is where he should be and not good enough to be a 2nd liner, not anymore…and if we are being honest, he’s not really what we eat form2nd line Crt anyway, we tried that with very limited success (yes it was successful to some degree, just not once playoffs came around). Anyways, I would love to see Backlund out and 2 new Ctrs in along with 2 new RW’s 

 

the other area of need is to address Gio I think BT should seriously look at moving him and bringing in a younger RSD to replace him.

 

thats a lot of offseason work and changes I’m not sure BT or any GM can manage all that but it all needs to happen.

Both have NTCs so unless the Kraks grab one of them the ball is in their court concerning movement.  Which means they'll most likely be at camp in the fall.

[cross16]

23 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Both have NTCs so unless the Kraks grab one of them the ball is in their court concerning movement.  Which means they'll most likely be at camp in the fall.

 

Both are modified NTC so some of it is in their court but not all of it. Gio submits 19 teams he could be traded to and Backlund 10. 

 

not that I necessarily disagree with the premise but there is more flexibility available. 

[travel_dude]

56 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

That’s the big issue, the simple fact is we are only gonna keep 2 of the three LW’s can’t afford to keep all of them so the choices are:

 

Tkacuck/Gaudreau

Takcuck/Manji

Gaudreau/Manji

 

of those option I think the Tkacuck/Gaudreau option is gonna cost way too much to be a realistic option so it’s either Tachuck or Gaudreau and Manji (unless he’s replaced via trade or FA) 

 

personally, I think Gaudreau brings back the best return on a trade, and Cgy keeps the younger 2 of the 3 LW’s which extends the window…the only issue here in is Manji is not really a 2nd line LW he’s more like an elite LW while Gaudreau and Tkacuck are both 1st line LW’s so we do need to down grade on one of them but Manji on 3rd line at 5mil (probably) is far too much, so looking at things in a logically economic way keep Tkacuck and rebuild the LW from there down, OR roll the dice on Manji on 2nd line LW…which could in fact be a value priced 2nd line LW…hopefully for less than 5mil per season over say 5 season but it’s a gamble…he may be at his top peak now…but then again gaudreau or Tachuck could flop or excel there is just no way of being 100% sure…

 

I think the lower risk lower price and potential higher reward option is Tkacuck and Manji as 1 and 2 LW while trading Gaudreau for either a 2nd line Ctr or RW would help balance out the top two lines pretty fast…could also move Dube to 3rd like LW which could in fact help bring his play and numbers up some by playing on his natural wing? This to me is probably the best asset management option, and do like Gaudreau, but between Gaudreau, Manji and Dube that’s way too many smallish players heck even keeping Dube I think is one too many but Cgy still needs to ice a team so keeping Dube (unless they manage to pick up a better yet affordable option Dube as 3rd line LW would Make sense.

 

then they need to figure out what to do with Backlund…this is where keeping Bennett would have made things soooo much easier and better, try him and 2nd line Ctr but could also slide him back to 3rd line Ctr…Backlund is too much money for 3rd line which is where he should be and not good enough to be a 2nd liner, not anymore…and if we are being honest, he’s not really what we eat form2nd line Crt anyway, we tried that with very limited success (yes it was successful to some degree, just not once playoffs came around). Anyways, I would love to see Backlund out and 2 new Ctrs in along with 2 new RW’s 

 

the other area of need is to address Gio I think BT should seriously look at moving him and bringing in a younger RSD to replace him.

 

thats a lot of offseason work and changes I’m not sure BT or any GM can manage all that but it all needs to happen.

 

I get the idea that we have to reduce cost, but we are far from a problem compared to a lot of teams.

Toronto - $40m for 4 players

EDM - $21m for 2 players

TBL - $24.75m for 3 players, one needing a HUGE raise next year

Vegas - $22.4m on 3 players

 

If Tkachuk is worth $9m then pay for it.

If Gaudreau is worth $8m then pay for it.

 

Pay for the talent you have or can get.

Get rid of the boat anchors.

We don't have that many and really the only reason they are is due to age.

If you want to trade to improve the team by trading away your top assets, great. 

Better be an improvement or it was a complete waste.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

My big issue is so much of these decisions rely on what version of Johnny and what version of Chucky you see next season.  Lets put it this way, next year Johnny, Mangi and Chucky are up, the club wont re-sign all 3 so who do we think will be best value by then? Will Johnny be worth the 7+ mill he'd prob fetch in the open market? Will Chucky be worth his QO? If Mangi has another productive year his value jumps significantly.

 

Contrary to other opinions I believe put on the left side Mangi is a more than effective #2LW so extend Mangi now ($5mil?) and see what can be had by dangling one of the others. Of the 3 you know Mangi gets you the least in return, and unless you're going full rebuild you need the best return now.

 

 

 

i saw that in Mangiapane’s Fan960 interview after the World’s that he’d be willing to sign an extension with the Flames. So just how much would that be?  4.25-4.5m/year? He needs a raise, I am just hesitant to go too high. He plays a rougher game and is slightly below average in size. But if he’s going to average 40-45 points per year, does that sound about right?

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not really how it plays out though. Mang actually draws a higher % of his ice time against better competition than Gaudreau does. It's not drastically different but the only players the last 2 season who have consistently drawn tougher matchups than Mang are Lindhom and Tkachuk.  Also, Mang's numbers are good no matter who he plays with and this past season, it was Mang who was brining up the numbers of his teammates and not the other way around.

 

I'm not trying to argue Mang is better or should be played above Gaudreau. Gaudreau makes sense to play him where he does because were he excels is creating offence and he is still one of the best in the league at that. 

 

At the end of the day, the Flames have 3 very good LWers and need to find a way to get all of the more opportunities, IMO. Multiple ways you can accomplish that, be it in Calgary or somewhere else, and that is something management should be trying to do. 

 

can Gaudreau or Tkachuk net us a quality RW+? 
 

id be inclined to Keep Mangiapane due to his high competition meter. 
 

 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i saw that in Mangiapane’s Fan960 interview after the World’s that he’d be willing to sign an extension with the Flames. So just how much would that be?  4.25-4.5m/year? He needs a raise, I am just hesitant to go too high. He plays a rougher game and is slightly below average in size. But if he’s going to average 40-45 points per year, does that sound about right?

 

Do you have the same concern about a player like Patty Kane?

Almost a carbon copy size wise.

 

$4.5m would match what they gave Ras.

This is his 3rd contract, and next season he has arbitration rights.

Lock him up before he really breaks out.

We lost Brodie for nothing at age 30 by going 5 years.

Lock him up. 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

46 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i saw that in Mangiapane’s Fan960 interview after the World’s that he’d be willing to sign an extension with the Flames. So just how much would that be?  4.25-4.5m/year? He needs a raise, I am just hesitant to go too high. He plays a rougher game and is slightly below average in size. But if he’s going to average 40-45 points per year, does that sound about right?

If youre going to give him 4 - 5 mil he has to be the #2LW.  If youre going to just play him on his off wing on the 3rd line then may as well shop him now because hes not going to flourish buried in the bottom 6.

[robrob74]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Do you have the same concern about a player like Patty Kane?

Almost a carbon copy size wise.

 

$4.5m would match what they gave Ras.

This is his 3rd contract, and next season he has arbitration rights.

Lock him up before he really breaks out.

We lost Brodie for nothing at age 30 by going 5 years.

Lock him up. 

 

don’t they play different games? I get the size references but Mangiapane is a dig deep and get in the mud kinda guy. Eventually that wears on the body and might be why they don’t play him as often, so he can play at that level. 
 

kane is a shifty, can’t hit type. Size reference, sure! Skill, no contest or reference there! 
 

ya, we should have tried to get something for Brodie. That was bad asset management, or the GM wasn’t allowed to deal him (needing to make a play in the playoffs). If I were GM I’d have dealt him and got something for him. It’s because I felt this team wasn’t going to go anywhere with how they were trending.

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

If youre going to give him 4 - 5 mil he has to be the #2LW.  If youre going to just play him on his off wing on the 3rd line then may as well shop him now because hes not going to flourish buried in the bottom 6.

 

yup! 4-5 is too much for a 3rd liner. I am assuming we deal Johnny, Monny or Tkachuk for a RW. That brings Mangiapane to 2nd LW… 

 

I would prefer to pay 3.5-4m for 3rd line Mangiapane. Would he be willing?

 

before this season he was very confident that he had more levels to his game. He took a slight step as he was already trending that way but as a lot point out here, he helps drive play and is one of the best at it in Calgary.

[cross16]

50 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

can Gaudreau or Tkachuk net us a quality RW+? 
 

id be inclined to Keep Mangiapane due to his high competition meter. 
 

 

 

Probably. 

 

Or based on the end of the season Tkachuk looked like a pretty quality RW himself..... Different options. 

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Probably. 

 

Or based on the end of the season Tkachuk looked like a pretty quality RW himself..... Different options. 

I thought he’d be a great RW due to his play on the PP. plus he was playing RW on the Backlund line anyway when he was with him. Which is weird, why wouldn’t they have played it out like this:

 

Mangiapane, Lindholm, Tkachuk

Lucic, Backlund, Dube

 

considering Mangiapane and Tkachuk already worked well together? 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I thought he’d be a great RW due to his play on the PP. plus he was playing RW on the Backlund line anyway when he was with him. Which is weird, why wouldn’t they have played it out like this:

 

Mangiapane, Lindholm, Tkachuk

Lucic, Backlund, Dube

 

considering Mangiapane and Tkachuk already worked well together? 

 

 

Mangiapane stands out as a player you can roll on any line and he makes that line better.

Gaudreau with Tkachuk and Lindholm was a standout line.

The problem we saw was no good 2nd line this year.

 

Trading Tkachuk for a RW doesn't really solve anything.

Trading Tkachuk for a C would leave a hole at RW on the top line.

Would need to trade Monahan to get a RW.

 

I think we have to face it, we don't have enough depth to trade from the core unless we also pick up at least one UFA.

 

Gaudreau-Eichel-RW

Mangiapane-Lindholm-RW

Lucic-Backlund-Ryan/Dube

4th line

[robrob74]

42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Mangiapane stands out as a player you can roll on any line and he makes that line better.

Gaudreau with Tkachuk and Lindholm was a standout line.

The problem we saw was no good 2nd line this year.

 

Trading Tkachuk for a RW doesn't really solve anything.

Trading Tkachuk for a C would leave a hole at RW on the top line.

Would need to trade Monahan to get a RW.

 

I think we have to face it, we don't have enough depth to trade from the core unless we also pick up at least one UFA.

 

Gaudreau-Eichel-RW

Mangiapane-Lindholm-RW

Lucic-Backlund-Ryan/Dube

4th line

 

I would think about doing Gaudreau for Konecny.

 

try get Tkachuk’s AAV down to 7.75 or something like that. Or trade him for Eichel if your paying closer to 9 anyway. Need to spend that kind of money on a #1C. Might as well pay 1m more for that.

 

I guess if you trade Johnny, you gotta keep Tkachuk, or vice versa. Boy the depth holes are evident when you trade away pieces to fill them. 

[MP5029]

5 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Both have NTCs so unless the Kraks grab one of them the ball is in their court concerning movement.  Which means they'll most likely be at camp in the fall.

Which means proper asset management moving forward is essential so as to not be stuck here again…younger players are where it’s at for contracts and best skill for that contact 

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get the idea that we have to reduce cost, but we are far from a problem compared to a lot of teams.

Toronto - $40m for 4 players

EDM - $21m for 2 players

TBL - $24.75m for 3 players, one needing a HUGE raise next year

Vegas - $22.4m on 3 players

 

If Tkachuk is worth $9m then pay for it.

If Gaudreau is worth $8m then pay for it.

 

Pay for the talent you have or can get.

Get rid of the boat anchors.

We don't have that many and really the only reason they are is due to age.

If you want to trade to improve the team by trading away your top assets, great. 

Better be an improvement or it was a complete waste.

I don’t really care about the other teams, just Cgy, and proper management of assets (players and their contracts) is the key to either being stuck where Cgybhas been or being an elite team heck even Ott gets it which is why they are more often contenders that Cgy has been over the past 15 years (well more often than not) and that should say something…

 

though I do agree pay for the talent you have and or can get..with that said, gaudreau is more of (and I hate saying this) trade asset and Tachuck is a pay asset as we sit this off season…and I only say this cause I think manji, Tachuck and Dube as 2,1,3 on LW is a better ROI than Gaudreau, Tachuck, manji as 1,2,3 … that being said I only say that because the latter is far more affordable and money could be re-directed to the RW which is in horrible shape!!!!

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I would think about doing Gaudreau for Konecny.

 

try get Tkachuk’s AAV down to 7.75 or something like that. Or trade him for Eichel if your paying closer to 9 anyway. Need to spend that kind of money on a #1C. Might as well pay 1m more for that.

 

I guess if you trade Johnny, you gotta keep Tkachuk, or vice versa. Boy the depth holes are evident when you trade away pieces to fill them. 

 

The real ugly thing is if we do a re-tool, we are going to have holes.

Our best assets could bring back pieces, but doesn't leave us much unless the trades are really well done.

Tear down fans would be happy because we would be in a rebuild basically.

[MP5029]

56 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The real ugly thing is if we do a re-tool, we are going to have holes.

Our best assets could bring back pieces, but doesn't leave us much unless the trades are really well done.

Tear down fans would be happy because we would be in a rebuild basically.

That’s the driving force behind a full tear down, the problem of how many holes there are to fill and using what little areas of strength we do have to fill a hole then opens a hole in an area we had some strength…it’s a tough call cross the board but I still think…

 

keep Tkacuck

 

 Trade Gauddreau

 

Keep Manji or Dube and trade the other…

 

then try and trade or hope any of the following are picked by the Kraken:

 

Lucic 

gio

backlund

 

Sign Montour from Fla to replace Gio.

 

then use what little assets that are obtained and focus on the top 3 lines filling those holes:

 

 Tachuck/ Monahan/ RW 

manji/Lindholm/ RW

Dube/Ctr/RW

 

it’s a huge on the RW side but it’s been that way since Iggy, in the above situation it give the team 2 decent Ctrs and maximizes the LW strength, if we could manage to pull out another Ctr close to the level of Monahan and Lindholm that would really help…this is where I see going hard after Reinhart makes sense, he’s kinda like Lindholm, better as a RW but dose a solid job of Ctr…it’s kinda an insurance plan then BT can really go hard at trying to get some top level RW’s… or maybe a few more quality Ctrs then there are options for both trades and FA, your not locked into needing a Ctr but they have two what could slide over to RW should the be lucky enough to land a few more quality Ctrs…

 

I see this as the only real option for a real improvement to the team over the next few years.

 

I also think the keys to a quick turnaround, are those two FA in particular as the D sould be solid with Montour replacing Gio and Markstrom as the main G…I think to not only save some dollars on the cap they should bring Wolf up, cause it’s time he be developed and Markstrom sees as good a mentor as any for him to learn from..but he dose need to pay every 3rd game or so to ensure he can pay and develop…sitting and practice he can only learn so much plus Markstrom has shown he dose need some rest time, so this would kind fit well.

 

I don’t think Gaudreau straight up for konecny is a good deal, but add in Farabee and that could be a consideration…I’m not a huge fan of Konecny especially if your 3rd and 2nd line LW are Manji and Dube, Need some size on those lines, andnim

jot 100%!sold on Konecny as a 1st line RW but…

 

Tachuck/Monahan/Konecny 

Manji/Lindholm/Farabee

Dube/Reinhart/ ???

 

it would close some holes on the RW in a one shot deal, and who knows there could be some chemistry there..with the added bonus on only needing to find another RW or Ctr to have three solid lines…that one move combined with signing of Montour and Reinhart could change things in a hurry. Heck maybe they could use any combo of 2nd picks and Backlund or Gio to land Rakell from Anh that would be a perfect opportunity if all those were to fall into place…

 

Tachuck/Monahan/Konecny 

Manji/Lindholm/Farabee

Dube/Reinhart/Rakell

Lucic/Zary/???RW

 

???? Spare FW, Ctr presumably 

 

valimaki/Anderson

Hanifi/Tanev 

montour/Kylington 

 

Spare D - Smith 

 

Markstrom

Wolf 

 

that’s not a bad lineup and it’s not impossible to achieve…something like this should be BT’s game plan, I really don’t see many other options that could be as good as this that would also be as possible to do.