2019-20 ROSTER PLANNING

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's a good combo.  Natural fit.  One is a passer/playmaker and the other is a finisher.

 

But to say Monahan is underrated play maker because of assists... He is what he is, don't you agree?  Monahan is an average play maker.

 

I get why ABC wants to defend Monahan because we make it sound like Monahan is a total fail at play making which is not true.  Just saying, he's not what #1 Centers typically are.  It's almost like Johnny should be the Center and Monahan is the winger.

 

It's a weird line.

Monahan does play more like a winger at times, especially in the D-zone.  His coverage is what makes him less than a Bergeron.

He's better than about 50% of the #1's in the league, but has his faults.

 

I would like to find the right match for JH-Mony.  Lindholm was a good fit, but we are wasting the other aspects of his game.

Bennett, IMHO, does not fit with JH.  He's neither a finisher nor a playmaker.

When I watch him skate, I find him to slow skating with control.

He needs a good playmaking C that can bring the puck into the O-zone.

And a winger that he can set up then go to the net or vice versa.

 

I haven't figured out the best fit for Tkachuk yet.

I don't think Backlund is it, but that may just be due to Frolik being singled out as a problem.

Maybe Tkachuk-Bennett-Lindholm would work out.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

56 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.  Good lines is about putting strengths together and offsetting weaknesses.  You can't have 3 playmakers and no finishers, for example.  There's going to be a whole bunch of moving the puck around the perimeter and nobody is shooting.

So just like the #1 PP.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So just like the #1 PP.

 

One reason i like Czarnik is because of his "give me the puck, i'll shoot" mentality.  BUT, he got a few shifts with the top line late in the season and he was gun shy.  He kept looking for Johnny, forcing passes to him.  

 

Czarnik could work with a guy like Tkachuk.  Decent speed and a willingness to shoot.  Not that great in the corners but plays with energy.

 

But ya, can't have 5 Alex Tanguays together.  

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So just like the #1 PP.

 

Ya, I thought the PP was supposed to be loads better with the new coach, but I think they went to players’ tendencies instead of overhauling it. I’d like to see Gaudreau work below the goal line and open up the play from there. If they continue to have Tkachuk on the first unit, then it could open up shots for Monahan and Tkachuk and options for the point, no? 

 

Although I would like to spread talent onto two pp lines. I feel like a part of killing momentum is not getting good PP looks. Kill the first unit and the PP is basically over. Plus we have the talent to be even more lethal than we’ve been. 

 

Plus i I feel like the PP is too stationary with very little movement.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Ya, I thought the PP was supposed to be loads better with the new coach, but I think they went to players’ tendencies instead of overhauling it. I’d like to see Gaudreau work below the goal line and open up the play from there. If they continue to have Tkachuk on the first unit, then it could open up shots for Monahan and Tkachuk and options for the point, no? 

 

Although I would like to spread talent onto two pp lines. I feel like a part of killing momentum is not getting good PP looks. Kill the first unit and the PP is basically over. Plus we have the talent to be even more lethal than we’ve been. 

 

We haven't had a heavy shot from the point since Dion Phaneuf... does Wideman count?

 

Giordano is accurate but not heavy.  Brodie doesn't shoot.  Gaudreau is not a perimeter shooting threat.  If anything, we lack a guy from the point who can make the other team respect our shot from the point.  It helps stretch out their box.  

 

Andersson likes to shoot and does it well but his shot is not elite.  He needs to play full time PP next season.  I'd like to see Hanifin given PP time too.  He's more a wrist shot guy though.

 

Backlund won the Flames hardest shot competition a couple years ago.  If we were going to use 4 forwards, it only makes sense that Backlund is at the point... but we don't do that for whatever reason.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We haven't had a heavy shot from the point since Dion Phaneuf... does Wideman count?

 

Giordano is accurate but not heavy.  Brodie doesn't shoot.  Gaudreau is not a perimeter shooting threat.  If anything, we lack a guy from the point who can make the other team respect our shot from the point.  It helps stretch out their box.  

 

Andersson likes to shoot and does it well but his shot is not elite.  He needs to play full time PP next season.  I'd like to see Hanifin given PP time too.  He's more a wrist shot guy though.

 

Backlund won the Flames hardest shot competition a couple years ago.  If we were going to use 4 forwards, it only makes sense that Backlund is at the point... but we don't do that for whatever reason.

 

Those sound like a good ideas.

 

i like Andersson’s ability to hold the line and he makes good reads on the pinch. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We haven't had a heavy shot from the point since Dion Phaneuf... does Wideman count?

 

Giordano is accurate but not heavy.  Brodie doesn't shoot.  Gaudreau is not a perimeter shooting threat.  If anything, we lack a guy from the point who can make the other team respect our shot from the point.  It helps stretch out their box.  

 

Andersson likes to shoot and does it well but his shot is not elite.  He needs to play full time PP next season.  I'd like to see Hanifin given PP time too.  He's more a wrist shot guy though.

 

Backlund won the Flames hardest shot competition a couple years ago.  If we were going to use 4 forwards, it only makes sense that Backlund is at the point... but we don't do that for whatever reason.

 

Ras was clocked at over 100mph at the skills comp in the AHL All Star game, I think it was a shade harder than Backlund's.

What makes the point shot deadly is quick passes into the wheelhouse of the D-man.

JH on the LW passes to Gio who breaks his stick on one timers.

JH on the RW half boards can put that short pass on Ras's stick and it's on the net.

Tkachuk to deflect and cause havok.

 

Sounds weird, but set it up like:

Monahan-Tkachuk-JH

Lindholm-Ras

 

That puts Lindholm back, JH down low and Ras between blueline and right circle.

Ras can hold the line and Lindholm can chase down any pucks that come out.

Lindholm pivots to the middle when Ras activates.

 

The 2nd unit should feature Gio and a D-man that can skate.

Backlund-Ryan-Neal.

 

The 2nd unit used to be good, but they were bad last year.

Too many leftovers playing there and not well thought out.

Brodie tended to be there, so shots were non-existant.

Hanifin or Valimaki should be the 2nd D on the unit.

[Horsman1]

8 hours ago, GM_3300 said:

I do agree he is an average playmaker at best and weak in the corners but he is strong in tight scoring spots and finding open ice in order to score. When he does carry the puck he can also be very effective. Gaudreau IMO could help himself and the line if he would actually shoot more like he was doing early last season. It's when he starts seeing himself as only a feeder that the opposition zeroes in on him. I believe it important that any line have the essential ingredients to create success so whether Gaudreau as a Winger or Monahan as a C makes it happen that is all that matters. The bonus on that line is when you have an equally talented RW such as Lindholm or if we could get Nylander the opposition can't zero in on shutting Gaudreau down. If the only negative on Nylander is he is soft, take a look at his assists and I see a player we want on our team.

nobody had an issue with Phil Esposito scoring 76 goals and he and Monahan are very similar players.. Check history for espo's wingers.. Who do we have similar??

 

[Sarasti]

14 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

nobody had an issue with Phil Esposito scoring 76 goals and he and Monahan are very similar players.. Check history for espo's wingers.. Who do we have similar??

 

Esposito didn't need elite playmaking wingers because he had Bobby Orr.

[travel_dude]

I like Monahan for what he is, which is a #1C.

He scores goals.

He wins faceoffs.

Hs weaknesses are related to his defensive game.

 

Gaudreau is an elite playmaker.

He battles as hard as his small frame allows.

Makes smart decisions with the puck and knows where the seams are.

His weaknesses are defensive coverage.

He knows where to go, but loses position.

 

Backlund is a shutdown C that doesn't score a tone.

His weaknesses are related to offense.

 

Tkachuk is a top 3 player that knows the dirty areas.

Skating is his biggest flaw.

 

Bennett could be as effective as Tkachuk, but he doesn;t think the game the same way.

He gets the puck and doesn't see the big picture.

 

Janko is a player that needs to rethink his game.

Big wingspan.

Big player.

Good wrist shot.

Doesn't use size to his advantage on offense.

Slows down the game, even though he has speed.

Looks lazy at times.

 

Neal was a good player that was not known for defensive ability.

Fell off a cliff.

Looked like fitness was a concern.

Slow skating or played with slow players.

Bennett-Janko-Neal was not a good combo.

Needs to come into camp a few pounds less and in top shape.

Less Alberta beef, more chicken.

 

For the most part, the other forwards played at or above their expectations.

Not without some minor issues.

We don't have many holes, but we can always improve.

[travel_dude]

I guessing that Stone is not being bought out in the first window.

He would have had to be placed on waivers, no?

We only have 2 NHL players that have arbitration rights.

Valiev and Lonberg do too, but they are unlikely to go there.

Slim chance of the 2nd window opening up.

 

So it comes down to a couple of possibles.

BT knows he is trading Brodie and is hedging on Stone right now, but will revisit the buyout in the 2nd window.

BT has a trade of Stone locked up. 

BT believes Stone is a useful player.

 

I can only truly believe the first one is possible.  He watched Stone play, right?  Prout actually looked better. 

[travel_dude]

It's strange but EDM just placed Sekera on waivers.

Darling trade to FLA for buyout purposes.

I thought that the waiving ha to be in place for today's window, not just the waiving part.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I can only truly believe the first one is possible.  He watched Stone play, right?  Prout actually looked better. 

 

I don't get why BT likes Stone so much.  It's clear Prout was more steady.  Stone just wanders too much and leaves the zone early.  Just cannot trust him with big minutes.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I guessing that Stone is not being bought out in the first window.

He would have had to be placed on waivers, no?

We only have 2 NHL players that have arbitration rights.

Valiev and Lonberg do too, but they are unlikely to go there.

Slim chance of the 2nd window opening up.

 

So it comes down to a couple of possibles.

BT knows he is trading Brodie and is hedging on Stone right now, but will revisit the buyout in the 2nd window.

BT has a trade of Stone locked up. 

BT believes Stone is a useful player.

 

I can only truly believe the first one is possible.  He watched Stone play, right?  Prout actually looked better. 

 

This is what scares me about BT. He has watched these guys yet still gave Stone his money. Anything above 2 and I would have let stone walk and then go find a 3rd pair somewhere, or let Andersson take the ball as he already showed well to end the previous season. 

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

This is what scares me about BT. He has watched these guys yet still gave Stone his money. Anything above 2 and I would have let stone walk and then go find a 3rd pair somewhere, or let Andersson take the ball as he already showed well to end the previous season. 

 

No kidding.  July 1st has become the worst nightmare for Flames fans.  I'm so happy we're capped out this summer.  

[Thebrewcrew]

The things is who's better than Stone for 3rd pair RHD? I'm not a huge fan of him by any means, but the UFA market is so bleak for depth D. Lovejoy, Hainesey? All way older than Stone. 

 

This doesn't guarantee Stone a spot this year, he could easily be bought out when the 2nd window opens later this summer too, so not worth getting worked up over.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The things is who's better than Stone for 3rd pair RHD? I'm not a huge fan of him by any means, but the UFA market is so bleak for depth D. Lovejoy, Hainesey? All way older than Stone. 

 

This doesn't guarantee Stone a spot this year, he could easily be bought out when the 2nd window opens later this summer too, so not worth getting worked up over.

 

Prout.  Even not considering the cap and money difference.  Prout has simply been more steady in that role.  He won't wow in any aspect but if you want a guy who doesn't hurt you and eats up 12 minutes a night, give you some size and toughness, then bring back Prout for a year or two.

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The things is who's better than Stone for 3rd pair RHD? I'm not a huge fan of him by any means, but the UFA market is so bleak for depth D. Lovejoy, Hainesey? All way older than Stone. 

 

This doesn't guarantee Stone a spot this year, he could easily be bought out when the 2nd window opens later this summer too, so not worth getting worked up over.

 

Prout, Prout is as good as, or just about as good as Stone. 

 

I dont know how much Engelland has slowed up, but he was better and I’d chance him on 3rd pair money. 

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Prout.  Even not considering the cap and money difference.  Prout has simply been more steady in that role.  He won't wow in any aspect but if you want a guy who doesn't hurt you and eats up 12 minutes a night, give you some size and toughness, then bring back Prout for a year or two.

 

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Prout, Prout is as good as, or just about as good as Stone. 

 

I dont know how much Engelland has slowed up, but he was better and I’d chance him on 3rd pair money. 

 

And I'm not even a big Prout fan.

I was miffed when they used him because of threats from players or teams.

I was also surprised at how ell he played considering he is a marginal NHL player.

I can't say the same thing about Stone regardless of the cap hit.

His best play is firng the puck down the ice and hoping a player can deflect it into the O-zone.

He was passed by Ras before Ras took off.

Valimaki is better even as a raw rookie.

Ther's no reason to keep a liability on the team for depth, when he provides less than Kulak did.

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

And I'm not even a big Prout fan.

I was miffed when they used him because of threats from players or teams.

I was also surprised at how ell he played considering he is a marginal NHL player.

I can't say the same thing about Stone regardless of the cap hit.

His best play is firng the puck down the ice and hoping a player can deflect it into the O-zone.

He was passed by Ras before Ras took off.

Valimaki is better even as a raw rookie.

Ther's no reason to keep a liability on the team for depth, when he provides less than Kulak did.

Here the way I see it . Buying out a player is a last resort. If we truly needed the space for something he knows is pending, I'm certain he'd have done it .he may still if he can't move him and needs the room in August 

If not necessary..you can never have enough depth on d , come playoff time so if we don't have to clear the room, then I have no trouble riding Stone to the end of his term.. 

I'm comfortable believing BT knows what he's doing 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Here the way I see it . Buying out a player is a last resort. If we truly needed the space for something he knows is pending, I'm certain he'd have done it .he may still if he can't move him and needs the room in August 

If not necessary..you can never have enough depth on d , come playoff time so if we don't have to clear the room, then I have no trouble riding Stone to the end of his term.. 

I'm comfortable believing BT knows what he's doing 

 

Brouwer occured in the 2nd window last year.

That was after Neal was signed.

He may be waiting because he's not sure how much money he will have when Tkachuk signs.

What I do know is we have no goalies signed other than Gillies.

Subtract his salary and Kylington, and we have just a about 13.7m.

Rittich and Talbot might equal 5m.

8.7m left for Tkachuk, Bennett and Mangiapane.

That's pretty much impossible without the buyout.

Even a bridge deal for Tkachuk is more than 5m.

 

[phoenix66]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Brouwer occured in the 2nd window last year.

That was after Neal was signed.

He may be waiting because he's not sure how much money he will have when Tkachuk signs.

What I do know is we have no goalies signed other than Gillies.

Subtract his salary and Kylington, and we have just a about 13.7m.

Rittich and Talbot might equal 5m.

8.7m left for Tkachuk, Bennett and Mangiapane.

That's pretty much impossible without the buyout.

Even a bridge deal for Tkachuk is more than 5m.

 

Exactly..  plus you have the likelihood of what a Brodie deal looks like,. Frolik is definitely in play.

Likelihood is he's sitting on a bunch of "if" deals.. if he has to he will, just sayin a buyout is always a last resort move 

[travel_dude]

53 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Exactly..  plus you have the likelihood of what a Brodie deal looks like,. Frolik is definitely in play.

Likelihood is he's sitting on a bunch of "if" deals.. if he has to he will, just sayin a buyout is always a last resort move 

 

My point was you can't always expext to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the last minute.

If you are trading Frolik for cap space, the roster got worse.

If you are trading for salary coming back, you need Stone gone.

A Brodie deal hinges on the player coming back.

Even a break of a million means we need Stone's 2.4m cap savings to survive.

Even cap coming and going and we are worse.

 

I'm not saying BT doesn;t have a plan, just that things can rapidly fall apart with FA.

Too many teams in the same boat trying to pawn off salary.

[kehatch]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

My point was you can't always expext to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the last minute.

If you are trading Frolik for cap space, the roster got worse.

If you are trading for salary coming back, you need Stone gone.

A Brodie deal hinges on the player coming back.

Even a break of a million means we need Stone's 2.4m cap savings to survive.

Even cap coming and going and we are worse.

 

I'm not saying BT doesn;t have a plan, just that things can rapidly fall apart with FA.

Too many teams in the same boat trying to pawn off salary.

 

I don't see the point of buying out Stone.  He has one year left under contract and I would rather not spread the cap into future years.  Plus, we are probably trading away a D for a forward so they might as well keep the guy as insurance / depth.  He is a functional player with a RH shot.  He might even have a bit of value at the deadline. 

 

If buying him out gave us the cap space we need then fine, but it doesn't. If we can trade him as a cap dump then fine, but we probably can't.  Things might change between now and September.  If it does then I am sure we will have an arbitration buyout if we absolutely need it.  As of right now buying him out doesn't make a lot of sense imo. 

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I don't see the point of buying out Stone.  He has one year left under contract and I would rather not spread the cap into future years.  Plus, we are probably trading away a D for a forward so they might as well keep the guy as insurance / depth.  He is a functional player with a RH shot.  He might even have a bit of value at the deadline. 

 

If buying him out gave us the cap space we need then fine, but it doesn't. If we can trade him as a cap dump then fine, but we probably can't.  Things might change between now and September.  If it does then I am sure we will have an arbitration buyout if we absolutely need it.  As of right now buying him out doesn't make a lot of sense imo. 

 

In general, I would say BT like to have about 1.5m in cap space going into the season.

Sure, it doesn;t have to be today.

We can carry more than the cap during the summer.

A cap dump trade versus 1.16 dead cap space for two years.

I just don;t see how we manage to carry his salary into October.

Maybe with a trade for just picks of Frolik or Brodie.

Or a cheap player coming back for either of those two.

 

I'm not losing sleep since I know BT gets it.