Sam Bennett

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

perception of Bennett? Nope, my perception doesn’t change. I think he was very patient in his time with the Flames and we’ve seen other players with similar draft pedigree whine a lot sooner than Bennett did. If he did complain, I think it was coming. I actually think he kind of just gave up, and like you said, wasn’t enjoying hockey anymore. He has some of the most success in times when the games are the hardest and then you don’t put him in those positions to succeed. I get all of the rhetoric that he was given a ton of chances, but never a full chance at C  with good quality players. You could be right that he goes quiet next year. 
 

I hope not. 
 

 

 

Not so much his skills as to his personality clashing.

We don't know a lot of what goes on in the room or on the ice at practice.

Or maybe he rubbed Lucic the wrong way.

 

All I can say is that if Lucic is in charge of culture, then that may not be a good thing.

He was ready to hang it up last year.

Now he is calling out some players.

Is he right?  Maybe.

 

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not so much his skills as to his personality clashing.

We don't know a lot of what goes on in the room or on the ice at practice.

Or maybe he rubbed Lucic the wrong way.

 

All I can say is that if Lucic is in charge of culture, then that may not be a good thing.

He was ready to hang it up last year.

Now he is calling out some players.

Is he right?  Maybe.

 

ya, I agree. I don’t think it is a good thing. Plus, I feel like a lot of guys probably gave up on the season when a lot of players got playing time even though their play didn’t warrant it. Is that playing for themselves? Maybe. But I think to get sat by both coaches for play that might have been only marginally worse that some who get played regardless of the errors they made, made some angry? I don’t know. I’d feel defeated if that happened to me as much as it did for guys like Valamaki... and Bennett to a lesser degree. Hell, even Mangiapane deserved more this year. 

 

I mean, he’s right, it sounds like their was a divide in the room. I think a guy like Lucic makes the room toxic. And maybe Bennett did have a bad attitude about it. By that time, I would have a hard time showing my displeasure of the situation too.
 

Perhaps Peters leaving was bad and if he had stayed Lucic may have retired. but the last two coaches have played Lucic off of their relationship and Lucic’s reputation as a vet player. The only thing I liked about Lucic was that he always tried this year, and other than that, thought surprisingly he’s still in the NHL. He has hockey sense?

 

to me, the Flames problems seem to be playing some guys in the same situations and expecting different results.   Moving a huge benefit to the team to another position thinking it will improve the team, only to create a bigger weakness at an already weak position on the team. I feel  like my head has been banged against the wall so much this year that my head still hurts...

 

 

[cross16]

Looks like some in Florida are finding out that liking Bennett is a bit of a roller coaster

 

 

[jjgallow]

Bennett is a flawed talent for sure.

 

That's why he's best on a team that has the basics figured out.

 

It starts with your goaltending.  Some teams take that seriously.  

 

Then you need real defence.    Some teams get that right.

 

 

So now you get that right and all of a sudden like Bennett becomes more of a positive than a negative.

 

Fail to get your basics right, and your forward lines need to become your defence.    Now all of a sudden you're asking your Bennetts to be your defence.

 

Good luck with that.

[travel_dude]

As exciting is is to see Bennett do good, it's a limited success.

Maybe he's starting to get it.

Maybe FLA is the right team to use his set of skills.

Maybe he's a player that only plays well in the East.

 

People love to dump on the Flames.

We've had successful players here.

Bennett not the first one to fail.

Others managed to do well playing on the 3rd line.

 

We have issues that need to be fixed.

Lack of a true goalie duo, and we failed when our starter went down with concussion.

Aging D, who is still playing the most minutes, while our prospects are not forgiven any growing issues.

Aging 3rd line responsible for stopping the best.

Team play perhaps needs to be adjusted to the NHL west.

Too many teams can overload the D-zone and we scramble. 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

As exciting is is to see Bennett do good, it's a limited success.

Maybe he's starting to get it.

Maybe FLA is the right team to use his set of skills.

Maybe he's a player that only plays well in the East.

 

People love to dump on the Flames.

We've had successful players here.

Bennett not the first one to fail.

Others managed to do well playing on the 3rd line.

 

We have issues that need to be fixed.

Lack of a true goalie duo, and we failed when our starter went down with concussion.

Aging D, who is still playing the most minutes, while our prospects are not forgiven any growing issues.

Aging 3rd line responsible for stopping the best.

Team play perhaps needs to be adjusted to the NHL west.

Too many teams can overload the D-zone and we scramble. 

 

For me it’s that he was slotted poorly since he left Backlund’s line and couldn’t tell if the team stopped trying to develop him and whether he put in the work. 
 

I think we saw a more skillful player his first few years and then his skills went downhill since. I think that is partially playing time and the lack of in-game puck touches. 
 

I agree, he didn’t progress here and I just think he’s a C and nothing else, which is why he doesn’t do well in Calgary. 

[jjgallow]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:14 PM, travel_dude said:

As exciting is is to see Bennett do good, it's a limited success.

Maybe he's starting to get it.

Maybe FLA is the right team to use his set of skills.

Maybe he's a player that only plays well in the East.

 

People love to dump on the Flames.

We've had successful players here.

Bennett not the first one to fail.

Others managed to do well playing on the 3rd line.

 

We have issues that need to be fixed.

Lack of a true goalie duo, and we failed when our starter went down with concussion.

Aging D, who is still playing the most minutes, while our prospects are not forgiven any growing issues.

Aging 3rd line responsible for stopping the best.

Team play perhaps needs to be adjusted to the NHL west.

Too many teams can overload the D-zone and we scramble. 

 

had

[robrob74]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:14 PM, travel_dude said:

As exciting is is to see Bennett do good, it's a limited success.

Maybe he's starting to get it.

Maybe FLA is the right team to use his set of skills.

Maybe he's a player that only plays well in the East.

 

People love to dump on the Flames.

We've had successful players here.

Bennett not the first one to fail.

Others managed to do well playing on the 3rd line.

 

We have issues that need to be fixed.

Lack of a true goalie duo, and we failed when our starter went down with concussion.

Aging D, who is still playing the most minutes, while our prospects are not forgiven any growing issues.

Aging 3rd line responsible for stopping the best.

Team play perhaps needs to be adjusted to the NHL west.

Too many teams can overload the D-zone and we scramble. 

JJ reopened this. 
 

it’s good that we had successfully drafted NHL players. Sure they need some recognition for that.
 

The organization has set standards, the playoffs. The fans all have their own set of standards, the Cup, well most of us do. When those standards aren’t met, there’s going to be criticism. For some of us, just drafting NHL players isn’t enough. Some of us want players that play with pride and play to win, impactful players. We don’t have enough of those. 
 

I am sure most of us want to praise the team and cheer for them. And yes, we are happy about some of those that have been  successes. 
 

for me, Monahan was the only successful player that I never really got on board with. He relied too much on Johnny and other than that he wasn’t doing much else. 
 

I just want this team to win. I want them to keep finding gems. I don’t want them to trade picks because they’ve had some successes in finding gems. When you give away picks you limit the ability to find them. 
 

I just see a lot of mixed results. 

[jjgallow]

 

It's interesting as there are a lot of Bennett fans here including myself, and we do cheer him on.

 

And it's possible that at some point I may have dumped on the Flames.  a little.

 

My own code for this is as follows:

• Brutal honesty in the offseason  
• More sensitivity and hope in the regular season, UNTIL they are near playoff elimination
• Playoffs (if they are in it):   Complete blind faith and support

 

I like to think there is a time for support and a time for honesty and the Flames have been providing more and more opportunities for honesty.

 

I think @robrob74 hit the nail on the head when he said the Flames are the ones who set the expectation of consistent playoffs.   Which by the way imho is their ultimate downfall at a high level.  I don't care about that, I care about consistent improvement as an organisation and an ultimate goal of a cup.   Hate to say it, I was not a huge fan of Feaster but he was the last GM that made any attempts at all to plan for the future and we are Still riding off that now.   Things went downhill shortly after we stopped doing that.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

It's interesting as there are a lot of Bennett fans here including myself, and we do cheer him on.

 

And it's possible that at some point I may have dumped on the Flames.  a little.

 

My own code for this is as follows:

• Brutal honesty in the offseason  
• More sensitivity and hope in the regular season, UNTIL they are near playoff elimination
• Playoffs (if they are in it):   Complete blind faith and support

 

I like to think there is a time for support and a time for honesty and the Flames have been providing more and more opportunities for honesty.

 

I think @robrob74 hit the nail on the head when he said the Flames are the ones who set the expectation of consistent playoffs.   Which by the way imho is their ultimate downfall at a high level.  I don't care about that, I care about consistent improvement as an organisation and an ultimate goal of a cup.   Hate to say it, I was not a huge fan of Feaster but he was the last GM that made any attempts at all to plan for the future and we are Still riding off that now.   Things went downhill shortly after we stopped doing that.

 

I don't really care if people dump on the team or not, that is your choice.

The successes and failures are well known.

We are wallowing about Bennett, which is both a systemic failure and a player failure.

 

As far as Feaster, he had a direction that screwed us up for years.  What plan other than team good enough to compete, so use Iggy's final year and don't set it up for success or future change.  Trade Iggy for pennies.  Force Kipper to play his only hand available by talking trade.  Had years to define a direction.

 

[jjgallow]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:08 AM, travel_dude said:

 

I don't really care if people dump on the team or not, that is your choice.

The successes and failures are well known.

We are wallowing about Bennett, which is both a systemic failure and a player failure.

 

As far as Feaster, he had a direction that screwed us up for years.  What plan other than team good enough to compete, so use Iggy's final year and don't set it up for success or future change.  Trade Iggy for pennies.  Force Kipper to play his only hand available by talking trade.  Had years to define a direction.

 

 

Yeah I'm not likely to lobby for for a return of Feaster.  I just don't think BT is any better or is playing this situation any better.    Feaster was responsible for bringing in Bennett and there was a brief period there where we actually tried things like letting him play center.   So there was at least a period of planning for the future.  A very brief period.  And it did play off.    Things that happened before and after that period, quite toxic.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yeah I'm not likely to lobby for for a return of Feaster.  I just don't think BT is any better or is playing this situation any better.    Feaster was responsible for bringing in Bennett and there was a brief period there where we actually tried things like letting him play center.   So there was at least a period of planning for the future.  A very brief period.  And it did play off.    Things that happened before and after that period, quite toxic.

 

I think you may be mixing up Faster with BT.

Feaster was gone before Sam was drafted.

You could say that Feaster as responsible for us drafting 4th overall.

Sam drafted by Burke (and BT), along with MacDonald, Smith and Kanzig.

That was Burke planning for the future before BT has any real say.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I think you may be mixing up Faster with BT.

Feaster was gone before Sam was drafted.

You could say that Feaster as responsible for us drafting 4th overall.

Sam drafted by Burke (and BT), along with MacDonald, Smith and Kanzig.

That was Burke planning for the future before BT has any real say.

 

yes I do remember.    that was the first and only draft under BT that I fully agreed with.   And each subsequent one after that seemed to go more and more off the board.   that first draft he actually used the scouts etc.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

yes I do remember.    that was the first and only draft under BT that I fully agreed with.   And each subsequent one after that seemed to go more and more off the board.   that first draft he actually used the scouts etc.

You agreed with Smith, MacDonald and Kanzig?

All Burke and his truculence fetish

I have no words.

[MP5029]

Ok one thing I find so very odd, is Quinville raves about Bennett, so how is it that one of the very best and most winning coaches loves Bennett yet all the Cgy coaches say for Hartley, burrows him on 3/4th line and used him on LW va Ctr? Which again oddly enough in his first year under Hartley, arguably his best year here, he was used at Ctr...

 

again, just speculation but the circumstantial evidence points to horrible management and development of a 4th OA 

[jjgallow]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

You agreed with Smith, MacDonald and Kanzig?

All Burke and his truculence fetish

I have no words.

 

I'm sorry it's a all a blur now.   Kanzig was the previous draft.    Didn't agree with any of those.  Fully agreed with at least the first round.   In my head I always kind of seperated it by before BT traded the first round pick, and after.    I guess 2012 was the last fully BPA draft or at least an attempt at it, and 2011 was the last successful attempt at it.  Wow where did 10 years go.

 

I guess we've been bad for some time thank you for correcting me lol, although none of this bodes that well for BT either.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm sorry it's a all a blur now.   Kanzig was the previous draft.    Didn't agree with any of those.  Fully agreed with at least the first round.   In my head I always kind of seperated it by before BT traded the first round pick, and after.    I guess 2012 was the last fully BPA draft or at least an attempt at it, and 2011 was the last successful attempt at it.  Wow where did 10 years go.

 

I guess we've been bad for some time thank you for correcting me lol, although none of this bodes that well for BT either.

 

i read an article, I found on google news feed, that said one of the Flames biggest problems is that they strictly draft BPA and don’t concentrate on position, which is why the Flames have so many holes. 
 

I sort of agree. 

[sak22]

Brian Burke wasn't employed by the Flames at the 2013 draft when Kegan Kanzig was selected, Burke started 2 months after that draft.  Can hold Burke accountable for the Hunter Smith disaster, but Kanzig was all Feas-Brod.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm sorry it's a all a blur now.   Kanzig was the previous draft.    Didn't agree with any of those.  Fully agreed with at least the first round.   In my head I always kind of seperated it by before BT traded the first round pick, and after.    I guess 2012 was the last fully BPA draft or at least an attempt at it, and 2011 was the last successful attempt at it.  Wow where did 10 years go.

 

I guess we've been bad for some time thank you for correcting me lol, although none of this bodes that well for BT either.

 

15 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Brian Burke wasn't employed by the Flames at the 2013 draft when Kegan Kanzig was selected, Burke started 2 months after that draft.  Can hold Burke accountable for the Hunter Smith disaster, but Kanzig was all Feas-Brod.

 

Messed up on Kanzig.  That was before Burkie.  I remember Burkie saying Feaster hit on all three 1st rounder in the 2013 draft.  That was something he said when he joined.

The fact that the Flames owners decided to bring in Burke was likely in response to Feaster getting jack squat for Iggy and J-Bow.  I thought that the Monahan and Klimchuk picks were the only good ones in that 2013 draft.  Tim Harrison?  Kanzig?  Roy?  Seriously?

 

Burkie was the bad influence on the 2014 draft.  Bennett was a no-brainer, though perhaps we should have been looking at why he passed down to 4th as the top player.

Ehlers was coming off a rookie season scoring 49 goals and 104 points.  On a team with no Nate MacKinnon.  Just food for thought.

Burkie had his hands all over Bollig, Mason MacDonald, Smith, Austin Carroll.

 

  

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

i read an article, I found on google news feed, that said one of the Flames biggest problems is that they strictly draft BPA and don’t concentrate on position, which is why the Flames have so many holes. 
 

I sort of agree. 

 

First round, especially at 12th overall, you have to take BPA.  After that, the gap between one player and the next is so small that you gotta start drafting some RHS.

[robrob74]

34 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

First round, especially at 12th overall, you have to take BPA.  After that, the gap between one player and the next is so small that you gotta start drafting some RHS.

 

i only half agree with it, mostly because we just haven’t found enough RHS players. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

i read an article, I found on google news feed, that said one of the Flames biggest problems is that they strictly draft BPA and don’t concentrate on position, which is why the Flames have so many holes. 
 

I sort of agree. 

 

I think it runs a lot deeper than that for the cause.

We have holes because we haven't drafted enough over the last 5 years or longer.

2 wasted 1st rounders in 2013.

2 wasted 2nd rounders in 2014

No 1st in 2015.

No 2nd 3rd in 2017.

Nothing until 4th round in 2018.

No 2nd in 2019.

 

My issue with Flames drating (when they actually keep the picks) is that they draft BPA that meets their model of a player.

Lavoie was probably BPA well over Pelletier, but he's notoriously "lazy".

We weren't the only ones to pass on him, but skills alone made him BPA.

Bennett was BPA, but there were traits that they viewed as making him a no brainer pick.

Tkachuk was exactly the player we should have picked, even if Pooly was available.

 

I guess picking BPA does help you if they end up being a good player.

Trade a LHS C for a RHS C.

Or trade Tkachuk for a #1C.

 

 

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

i read an article, I found on google news feed, that said one of the Flames biggest problems is that they strictly draft BPA and don’t concentrate on position, which is why the Flames have so many holes. 
 

I sort of agree. 

 

And so begins.    ....

Another BPA thread!  Lol

 

Imho we should just revive the old ones as well as some archived pinned threads like Live Prospect Tracker.   But wish list aside, 

 

The BPA debate is all Semantics and context.   That is what makes it endless fun.

 

So.   

 

Context:   Keegan Kanzig

 

We all know ow he had no skill and showed no signs of skill and that he couldn't skate and couldn't produce and was a LHS.

 

But.  ..  

 

Was he...  BPA?

 

Well now 

 

If your definition of BPA is:

Height

Size

LHS

D

WHL player

Number of K's, E's, A's, Z's, and N's in their name 

The top rated player of the only player your scout scouted who you hired off of the street

 

 

Then yes....yes....indeed he was BPA, and a steal at that.

 

 

Now say you wanted a player who....could...for instance...skate.  on the ice.

Pass the puck, handle the puck 

 

Then no.  

 

So when I see an article about us drafting too much BPA I think we have  a failure to communicate what that means

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think it runs a lot deeper than that for the cause.

We have holes because we haven't drafted enough over the last 5 years or longer.

2 wasted 1st rounders in 2013.

2 wasted 2nd rounders in 2014

No 1st in 2015.

No 2nd 3rd in 2017.

Nothing until 4th round in 2018.

No 2nd in 2019.

 

My issue with Flames drating (when they actually keep the picks) is that they draft BPA that meets their model of a player.

Lavoie was probably BPA well over Pelletier, but he's notoriously "lazy".

We weren't the only ones to pass on him, but skills alone made him BPA.

Bennett was BPA, but there were traits that they viewed as making him a no brainer pick.

Tkachuk was exactly the player we should have picked, even if Pooly was available.

 

I guess picking BPA does help you if they end up being a good player.

Trade a LHS C for a RHS C.

Or trade Tkachuk for a #1C.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I don't get too worked up when we draft a LHS.     As long as they have skill. 

But then I expect those trades.  And when they don't materialize it is like What Iz Going on.

 

In either case you have to, to some extent,  place more value on RHS and certain positions like RHS D.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Context:   Keegan Kanzig

 

 

Feaster seems to have some blinders in his drafting, mostly Feas-brod.

Kanzig - the next Charo.

Harrison - another HS kid in the US.