Sam Bennett

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, pikey7883 said:

So Benny playing with real line mates is good for him? Hmmmm, who would’ve thought that? 
I remember a time when I said last year he needs to take Backlunds spot with Chucky and Mang, but no, he doesn’t have the skill to play up in the lineup. 
Then last playoffs came and he lit it up with Looch and Dube, as a “grinder line” who kept producing. What have Looch and Dube done this year without Benny?

I heard an interview on NHL network (Sirius) with Bill Lindsay whose close with the panthers. And when he was talking about Sam, he said he was shocked that he couldn’t get it going in Calgary. He said after the first two games he said Sam was pushing the pace on a team that he feels is a very fast up tempo play already. Then he said that he didn’t know he was so physical, “he hits everything”. He said thank you to the flames for their new second line Center.

It was heartbreaking to listen to.

Nice. Been watching them since they got him. He's winning battles, putting up points, sticking up for teammates and being a responsible C. He's had some good d zone play and separating guys from the puck.

He's playing really well. His goals are straight down main Street and Huberdeau and Duclair find him.

2nd PP net presence.

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, 89Again said:

Finally good he can prove people wrong.  We should have traded Mikael Backlund.  We need more strong Canadian talent.

 

13 hours ago, robrob74 said:

it was kind of what I was saying the last 4 years, if he played with Johnny, he’d be scoring too. Just luck of the draw that Monny came first I guess. 

 

Would he though?  FLA has two players that fit him like a glove so far.

Huberdeau is not Gaudreau.

I don't see any line we have that plays similar to the line he's on in FLA.

 

[rickross]

I think it’s pretty clear how bad the Flames messed up their highest draft pick in Bennett. He’s going to come back to haunt with his current line mates and coach. Flames struggles are real! I see you too Adam Fox! 

[pikey7883]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Would he though?  FLA has two players that fit him like a glove so far.

Huberdeau is not Gaudreau.

I don't see any line we have that plays similar to the line he's on in FLA.

 

I know we don’t have an exact replica of huberdeau, but if he would’ve played with Tkachuk and Mang on the 2nd line regularly, I’m of the mindset we would’ve seen similar results. 
it would’ve allowed us to keep Johnny-money-lindholm together

and then roll the bottom 6 similar to what we have now

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I know we don’t have an exact replica of huberdeau, but if he would’ve played with Tkachuk and Mang on the 2nd line regularly, I’m of the mindset we would’ve seen similar results. 
it would’ve allowed us to keep Johnny-money-lindholm together

and then roll the bottom 6 similar to what we have now

 

Nature vs nuture.

I just don't see the fit with Tkachuk; two guys that are gritty and go to the net.

Who's getting the puck to the net with them both fishing for the puck.

Honestly, if the fit was there on this team it would have happened.

He wanted to be Doug Gilmour; feisty player.

The shot didn't show up.

So many plays left you scratching your hed, wondering where his head was at.

 

He's the kind of player that fits a small amount of situations.

We didn't have the right fit ever.

 

 

[pikey7883]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nature vs nuture.

I just don't see the fit with Tkachuk; two guys that are gritty and go to the net.

Who's getting the puck to the net with them both fishing for the puck.

Honestly, if the fit was there on this team it would have happened.

He wanted to be Doug Gilmour; feisty player.

The shot didn't show up.

So many plays left you scratching your hed, wondering where his head was at.

 

He's the kind of player that fits a small amount of situations.

We didn't have the right fit ever.

 

 

Did you watch him in Junior? The playoffs? His brief start in Florida? I don’t need you to agree with me, but in Kingston he was being groomed by Gilmour, his linemate throughout Junior was Crouse. They played hard together and drove the net, and created plays from pace and hard forecheck. 
Duclair and Mangiapane are very similar in the way they play. Great hockey IQ, great hands. Tkachuk is not Huberdeau, but at the same point in their career their numbers are almost identical. 
Benny has to be in the middle of the ice for 15 - 18 minutes a game, and he has to be engaged. Always has always will be. 10 minutes a night on the 4th line LW, or 15 minutes with JG and SM right wing was never how to make him successful. We botched it, Florida is enjoying it. 
I think it’s because we saddled up to Backlund and we’re too afraid to do what needed to be done. I have no idea if that was a coach? Management? Or Ownership? Or even a players leadership group meeting? Either way we just wasted a 4th OA pick and we don’t have years of top picks to pick and choose from like our neighbours to the north. 

[robrob74]

45 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nature vs nuture.

I just don't see the fit with Tkachuk; two guys that are gritty and go to the net.

Who's getting the puck to the net with them both fishing for the puck.

Honestly, if the fit was there on this team it would have happened.

He wanted to be Doug Gilmour; feisty player.

The shot didn't show up.

So many plays left you scratching your hed, wondering where his head was at.

 

He's the kind of player that fits a small amount of situations.

We didn't have the right fit ever.

 

 

thats why I said Johnny. Johnny would get the puck to him there. You say one post that no one plays his style and then in another you say those who do wouldn’t be able to get him the puck and that someone who could get him the puck wouldn’t be able to in the earlier post. 
 

we know Johnny can carry, he can dish. Bennett is also a guy who sticks up for teammates. Johnny gets hit, Benny would’ve been there.
 

We’d never know with this club because no one ever tried anything (really all that) new. How long did it take to move away from Johnny and Monny? They back together already?

 

It’s painfully obvious that they don’t even work anymore and it was always, oh you can’t break them up! 
 

Benny is a C. Sure he doesn’t make players better, but he does play to others abilities. He has in the past but if he didn’t score they’d break it up. 
 

i see Lucic and Tkachuk as very similar in hockey iq. Not the same player, but same intellect. When Tkachuk is on, he knows to get rid of the puck quick and in the right spots, knows when to hold, no when to fold... anyway, he moves the play the right way when he is on his game, much like Looch. Looch has not the same handling skills, but generally puts puck in the right places. It’s why I think Tkachuk or Gaudreau could work with Benny.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Would he though?  FLA has two players that fit him like a glove so far.

Huberdeau is not Gaudreau.

I don't see any line we have that plays similar to the line he's on in FLA.

 

I think that's true. Bennett many times would carry the puck quickly through the neutral zone and then have no support.

I wonder if this trade will just show that the Flames play just bogs players down?

Go hard, no support, go hard no support.

So you have to slow it down, and if that's not your game, you suffer.

 

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think that's true. Bennett many times would carry the puck quickly through the neutral zone and then have no support.

I wonder if this trade will just show that the Flames play just bogs players down?

Go hard, no support, go hard no support.

So you have to slow it down, and if that's not your game, you suffer.

 

 

that could be part of the puzzle for sure. You look at Gaudreau and he is easy to stop because of the lack of support.
 

But we also saw that when Benny did have support that he was able to use them and he looked like a completely different player. 
 

you sum it up perfectly. And I think that we do have players who can support the way you say, but they’re being held back by others. Maybe that is the systems? Maybe it’s who is lined up with who? 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think that's true. Bennett many times would carry the puck quickly through the neutral zone and then have no support.

I wonder if this trade will just show that the Flames play just bogs players down?

Go hard, no support, go hard no support.

So you have to slow it down, and if that's not your game, you suffer.

 

 

Dube was about the closest to a fit that I could recall.

And that happened last in August.

I don't think we ever had the right LW for him in that situation.

Lucic was just a brute that could help hold the puck.

Not exactly a great N/S guy, other than a train going north to south.

 

Maybe it was a missed opportunity, but I wonder if there would have been something with Dube-Bennett-Lindholm.

Or Mangiapane on LW.  

Speed on the wings.

 

I guess his current play leads me to believe that he would never be successful playing with Tkachuk or Gaudreau.

[cross16]

A lot of premature takes, which is understandable given how polarizing Bennett was. I want to see more games before I draw conclusions because i'm betting this success is short lived but there is also some serious hindsight bias going on. 

 

While I absolutely agree the Flames should have done better a key problem is during the time where Bennett was breaking into the league, Monahan and Backlund were breaking out too. From 2016-2019 Monahan was a top 10 producing center, and Backlund emerged as one of the best way way centers in the game and top 60 center by just about every metric you want to look at. Flames were supposed to just move those guys aside and hand Bennett opportunities they other 2 were thriving in?

 

That is silly to me. 

[conundrumed]

And we see improvement in Monahan's 2 way game with Dube and Mangiapane because the pace is balanced.

Just my opinion.

 

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

A lot of premature takes, which is understandable given how polarizing Bennett was. I want to see more games before I draw conclusions because i'm betting this success is short lived but there is also some serious hindsight bias going on. 

 

While I absolutely agree the Flames should have done better a key problem is during the time where Bennett was breaking into the league, Monahan and Backlund were breaking out too. From 2016-2019 Monahan was a top 10 producing center, and Backlund emerged as one of the best way way centers in the game and top 60 center by just about every metric you want to look at. Flames were supposed to just move those guys aside and hand Bennett opportunities they were thriving in?

 

That is silly to me. 

I don't think that at all, just that they couldn't put players with Bennett that could play a better pace and everything was D first. Not saying he should have replaced anyone. The Flames have always lacked depth. Too many picks went sideways and FA was typically meh.

I'm definitely not saying Bennett is a wrecking ball. He can help drive play, definitely not by himself.

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't think that at all, just that they couldn't put players with Bennett that could play a better pace and everything was D first. Not saying he should have replaced anyone. The Flames have always lacked depth. Too many picks went sideways and FA was typically meh.

I'm definitely not saying Bennett is a wrecking ball. He can help drive play, definitely not by himself.

 

Yes that wasn't directed at you it was others. 

 

I agree with you on this. I do wish the Flames had kept Bennett at center, or at the very least defined his role, but the biggest miss was not finding someone who he could play with and who could help him drive play. Wish they could have taken some pressure off of him at center. 

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't think that at all, just that they couldn't put players with Bennett that could play a better pace and everything was D first. Not saying he should have replaced anyone. The Flames have always lacked depth. Too many picks went sideways and FA was typically meh.

I'm definitely not saying Bennett is a wrecking ball. He can help drive play, definitely not by himself.

 

yup! 
 

it is me who has always said that if Bennett had the Monahan opportunity to play with Gaudreau that he’d have had similar success. It never happened so we’d never know. But I always thought he could. He showed similar successes in their rookie years. Sam, 18 goals 30+ points. Monahan with 21 goals and 30+ points. Bennett actually got more points in his rookie year than Monahan did in his. I’ve said it for years... nothing new from me. I just feel he’d have succeeded with better players.

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

Yes that wasn't directed at you it was others. 

 

I agree with you on this. I do wish the Flames had kept Bennett at center, or at the very least defined his role, but the biggest miss was not finding someone who he could play with and who could help him drive play. Wish they could have taken some pressure off of him at center. 

And it’s why I thought it was weird they took Dube away from him when it finally seemed like they did find someone who could do that! I knew Bennett’s days as a Flames was numbered in training camp when they 4th lined him with nobody’s again.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't think that at all, just that they couldn't put players with Bennett that could play a better pace and everything was D first. Not saying he should have replaced anyone. The Flames have always lacked depth. Too many picks went sideways and FA was typically meh.

I'm definitely not saying Bennett is a wrecking ball. He can help drive play, definitely not by himself.

 

Some players do well once they leave.

Opportunity sometimes, and other times it's just we held them back.

It could be one, both or none of those reasons.

And it could also be a short term bump.

 

Neal did well scoring close to 20 last year, but as you can expect it was opportunity.

He was never that good, just dropped his blade in the way of another guy scoring a PP goal.

Chaisson was another guy that was okay, but really is not a 20 goal scorer in EDM.

Hamonic, Smith, Stone, Forbort, Gustafsson, Dougie were a waste of assets.

Only one of them actually turned into a decent return on investment.

 

Until the Flames do a better job of identifying talent to use with whatever the fuure core is, the cycle wiil continue.

Sutter can coach that team, but I wouldn;t trust him to build it.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Some players do well once they leave.

Opportunity sometimes, and other times it's just we held them back.

It could be one, both or none of those reasons.

And it could also be a short term bump.

 

Neal did well scoring close to 20 last year, but as you can expect it was opportunity.

He was never that good, just dropped his blade in the way of another guy scoring a PP goal.

Chaisson was another guy that was okay, but really is not a 20 goal scorer in EDM.

Hamonic, Smith, Stone, Forbort, Gustafsson, Dougie were a waste of assets.

Only one of them actually turned into a decent return on investment.

 

Until the Flames do a better job of identifying talent to use with whatever the fuure core is, the cycle wiil continue.

Sutter can coach that team, but I wouldn;t trust him to build it.

 

you could also say Elliott and Smith as well. Although I’d approve using assets in one of the trades but not two to fix the same problem. 
 

i don’t mind the idea of trading for one goalie... but having to do it twice and using extra assets...

 

I would have also liked BT trade Brodie considering he wasn’t in the future plan. 
 

also, judging how the team looks, too bad we didn’t resign Brodie. The D is a mess without him!

 

use the money they paid Simon, Nordstrom, Leivo, etc... 

 

Brodie, Tanev

Hanifin, Andersson

Giordano, Valamaki 

 

or however others would line them up! 

[sak22]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

you could also say Elliott and Smith as well. Although I’d approve using assets in one of the trades but not two to fix the same problem. 
 

i don’t mind the idea of trading for one goalie... but having to do it twice and using extra assets...

 

I would have also liked BT trade Brodie considering he wasn’t in the future plan. 
 

also, judging how the team looks, too bad we didn’t resign Brodie. The D is a mess without him!

 

use the money they paid Simon, Nordstrom, Leivo, etc... 

 

Brodie, Tanev

Hanifin, Andersson

Giordano, Valamaki 

 

or however others would line them up! 

I wouldn't say he wasn't in the plans, both sides talked up until he got his NMC from Toronto, and the Flames moved to Tanev.  We could have one or the other but not both, and Tanev hasn't been a problem.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I wouldn't say he wasn't in the plans, both sides talked up until he got his NMC from Toronto, and the Flames moved to Tanev.  We could have one or the other but not both, and Tanev hasn't been a problem.

 

Tanev has probably been the best player all year. 
 

salary probably doesn’t work as some of the names I mentioned are guys who taxi squad.

[conundrumed]

51 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yes that wasn't directed at you it was others. 

 

I agree with you on this. I do wish the Flames had kept Bennett at center, or at the very least defined his role, but the biggest miss was not finding someone who he could play with and who could help him drive play. Wish they could have taken some pressure off of him at center. 

Exactly. It was the Baertschi, Poirier Jankowski picks and more.

I get BPA thinking at the draft, I just don't agree with it. 

Monahan is an excellent player, Bennett had to find his own way, but compounding draft headaches made it a problem.

I wish Canadian teams would just draft and stfu about it like American teams and not get caught up in glorifying kids.

[Heartbreaker]

33 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Exactly. It was the Baertschi, Poirier Jankowski picks and more.

I get BPA thinking at the draft, I just don't agree with it.

I don't think that those are great examples because I don't think that Poirier or Jankowski were BPA at the time that they were selected.

Love.

[conundrumed]

15 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

I don't think that those are great examples because I don't think that Poirier or Jankowski were BPA at the time that they were selected.

Love.

I can get with that. For the Flames they were, I think it highlights where we are now. Call it hindsight, but it's a reality.

 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Exactly. It was the Baertschi, Poirier Jankowski picks and more.

I get BPA thinking at the draft, I just don't agree with it. 

Monahan is an excellent player, Bennett had to find his own way, but compounding draft headaches made it a problem.

I wish Canadian teams would just draft and stfu about it like American teams and not get caught up in glorifying kids.

It helps when the sport is #3 or #4 in the market.  As nice as it is for Sam to get a good opportunity with good line mates, also good he can just worry about playing hockey and not worry about the outside noise

[89Again]

I dont think the Flames managed Bennett well but  I am more concerned that since we won the cup our consistent poor performance has bred a culture of, “defend to save the ability to win” instead of a culture of, “bring what you will and we will still beat you because were better.”  I am more concerned every day that we have a culture of expecting to lose.  I think BT is good at the deal, he’s not a guy I would want to negotiate with but he sucks at developing a winning, culture.  You must have the right mix of skill, heart, goaltending and personality and not necessarily in that order and once you have it is has to be managed to retain it.  This is why good coaches are geniuses and this is where BT fell flat on his face.  The elite businessman and professional sportsman thinks this no longer matters but in most cases it does and the Flames have not had this since Bob Johnson and Crispy.  Bennett and Rittich I think could have been part of a winning team, they were heart and soul, they were a big part of building a team.
 

We have all been analyzing like mad individual players etc.  We have done it for years but I now think the problem starts and ends with the coach.

 

Having said all of this I believe strongly that Sutter is a step in the right direction.  I just hope he stays behind the bench.