Blockbuster: Hamilton Ferland Fox for Hanifin Lindholm

[7wit]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Well, if we didn’t trade for Hamilton we could’ve had Barzal who just won rookie of the year. It is something I was afraid of when we traded for Hamilton. But as everyone seems to point out, only approximately 60% of first rounders work so it was a calculated risk. 

 

I am with you on the thought. But it wouldn’t have cost us the extra 2nd rounders. 

You're right, it wouldn't have. I think Treliving has to start going hard for a quality big ticket player who can save his job. A Tavares or Karlsson would help him out. I'm just not sure they would want to come here. I'm happy with the players we got from Carolina as I feel it's a move in the right direction character wise.

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, 7wit said:

You're right, it wouldn't have. I think Treliving has to start going hard for a quality big ticket player who can save his job. A Tavares or Karlsson would help him out. I'm just not sure they would want to come here. I'm happy with the players we got from Carolina as I feel it's a move in the right direction character wise.

 

I am beginning to see this deal as a fair deal but still upset about the cost of other deals for Hamilton and Hamonic. 

 

Its also hard when you throw picks away by drafting Austin Carroll and Smith, Poirier and Klimchuk.  

[7wit]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I am beginning to see this deal as a fair deal but still upset about the cost of other deals for Hamilton and Hamonic. 

 

Its also hard when you throw picks away by drafting Austin Carroll and Smith, Poirier and Klimchuk.  

Hamonic was a massive overpayment. No question. In a couple of years I can see a few current dmen higher on the depth chart.

[Khrox]

11 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

Lindholm can probably replace Ferland's offence.

Lindholm for sure replaces Ferland's offence. Lindholm's average year was Ferlands career year. And giving Lindholm someone like Gaudreau and Monahan. While not necessarily a lot better than Aho and Teravainan, I'd say Monahan is comparable to either of them and Gaudreau is better. Overall, better linemates for Lindholm. If Ferland is a third liner who could produce 20g/40 points playing with them, Lindholm (a guy who should be a first/second liner) who was already hitting 15g/44 points could probably be a 20g/50-60 point guy (if not better). 

[rickross]

Intriguing trade. We paid a heavy price to land Dougie as that highly coveted top pairing RHS D man...and now we paid a hefty price to ship him away. To be clear, at this point I consider this to be balanced trade that tips neither teams' scales. BT was obviously aware of the locker room "rumours"in Boston surrounding Dougie prior to acquiring him however he gambled on the fact that he was still only 22 and was still growing up. He's essentially refreshed his 2015 acquisition with a younger, more defensively responsible possible franchise cornerstone, minus the character issues and locker room concerns. 

 

I liked Dougie Hamilton, his offence will be hard to replace and his ability to get shots thru from the point is near elite...Flames will definitely miss that aspect of his game. Lindholm is another great addition with the versatility he brings, it's an overall upgrade over even though Ferly's toughness will be sorely missed. I still think BT is out to land that true #1 RW via Free agency or trades which could leave the forward lines closer to...

 

Gaudreau-Monny-FA or Trade acquisition 

 

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

 

Bennett-Janko-Frolik

 

Hathaway-Shore-Brouwer

 

 

Obviously there's still plenty of time, Flames could save on FA cap spending and add a guy like Grabner to fill out the right side too. All in all, the Flames just got younger, faster and more skilled. 

 

 

 

[tmac70]

I will miss Ferland was one of my favorites, felt GG watered him down the past couple of season's but wish him well. Hamilton guy had all the intangibles but never uses them, sure he can score but what's with the behind the scenes issues, 2 teams at 25 and you can't fit in. He did play well after his brother left. Hamilton may seemed immature in nature loved to joke around dress up in Halloween costumes. There is some underlining issue we do not know of hope he straightens it out in the future. Fox was going to pull a classless move, which shows his true character. Hard to win as a team when you have guys that have no desire to be in the city. 

 

As for the trade if you break down everything from acquiring Hamilton to moving Hamilton we lost and we lost huge. This trade was a wash I believe Fox being added gained us or lost us nothing  anyway. We got faster, cheaper and younger but we also got softer with less offense. There were issues in Boston that Tre knew of and did not take heed of that he rolled the dice and lost.

 

I feel we are not done yet we are no better than we were 2 days ago. We still need to land a better RW and we also need a better bottom 6.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

As for the trade if you break down everything from acquiring Hamilton to moving Hamilton we lost and we lost huge. This trade was a wash I believe Fox being added gained us or lost us nothing  anyway. We got faster, cheaper and younger but we also got softer with less offense. There were issues in Boston that Tre knew of and did not take heed of that he rolled the dice and lost.

 

I feel we are not done yet we are no better than we were 2 days ago. We still need to land a better RW and we also need a better bottom 6.

 

I was as stunned as anybody when this broke, but now that I look at it calmer I disagree we lost huge.

if you break it down to just numbers, we traded a #15 and 2 mid to late 2nds to move up to the 5 spot in the 2015 draft , we traded Ferland and a good prospect for another #5 pick 

But its bigger than that , now I'm not pinning all our issues on Dougie , but hes representative of them ,  he didn't hate to lose.

I think he's a great guy , but I also think he has social issues(like chronic shyness or something .. it really is a thing ). Talk about him was that he was a loner, didn't partake in team build activities, didn't hang out with teammates.

I think getting his brother here was due to BT knowing this and helping him be comfortable, and when he lost him it was probably the most emotion we've ever seen him have.I don't know at what point he likely asked for a trade , but the between the lines comments from BT leave me believing he did .. and if that's the case , all sides deserve kudos for it not getting out 

 

Bottom line, this was addition by subtraction , teams win , and to win you need to hate to lose

 

I believe Hanifin is just as good now , as Dougie was in 2015 and I hear he's got a little more snarl to him .

 Lindholm should produce regularly or better than Ferlands career year .. and for those who say we miss his edge, I say we missed that anyway .. for some reason he refused or didnt like to play the tough guy , even when we needed him to 

TJ fans will get their wish and he will go home to Gio.. now its time for him to put up or shut up .. the 2nd pair should be greatly improved with TJ off of it and Hanifin in his place .. it will help people see the real Hamonic we traded for 

 

I'd say we definitely ARE better today than 2 days ago,,  but absolutely agree we still need to work on the other items but the heavy lifting has been done .

 

 

 

 

 

[JTech780]

I am curious to see if Carolina can pair Hamilton with someone that can cover up for his defensive mistakes and giveaways the way Giordano did. 

[Cowtownguy]

I am uncomfortable with some of the things being said about Hamilton on social media. I suspect that most of us have heard less than flattering comments about his personality. If he didn't fit into the club, requested a trade, or there was conflict in the dressing room, then he had to be traded. Further, if these concerns are true and known to other general managers, then his trade value was reduced. There were a lot of concerns about Fox being thrown into the deal. Again, if other general managers were aware, or  even suspicious about him signing, then his value was quite low if close to nothing. The only value he provided Treliving was to direct his rights to another team that he might not sign with. Lastly, we have Ferland. Everyone likes the guy and he has shown a massive turnaround in his life trajectory. How can anyone not like that effort? Again, the reality is that he has suffered concussions and is soon to be an unrestricted free agent who will want/deserve more money given his production with Johnny and Monahan. Overall, I think Treliving performed well to acquire two players with talent and promise under these circumstances.

 

Of course, most of us will never know if this was a terrible or a great trade because we not privy to the information that Treliving had. In the end, I think that Treliving held us constant, if not improved, our defence in the immediate and long-term. He also improved our offence for some time. I have no problems criticizing Treliving as all general managers make mistakes, and we know he has made a few here in Calgary. In the end, we are a faster, tougher, and younger club. This is not a Phaneuf deal.

 

I just wish that Treliving could move Brouwer and manage to swing two more top ten draft picks. 

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I am curious to see if Carolina can pair Hamilton with someone that can cover up for his defensive mistakes and giveaways the way Giordano did. 

I'm more curious to see if they trade for Freddie before the season starts  

[CheersMan]

I'm curious about the timing of this trade.  Why did it occur on Saturday at the draft when no picks were involved?  Were teams not busy enough watching and jockeying for position in the draft order?

I'm reading lots of negatives about the 3 exiting Flames players.  Other than unsigned, what are some of the rumored negatives of Lindholm and Hanifin?  Carolina has one LD signed, why part with Hanifin?   

 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I'm curious about the timing of this trade.  Why did it occur on Saturday at the draft when no picks were involved?  Were teams not busy enough watching and jockeying for position in the draft order?

I'm reading lots of negatives about the 3 exiting Flames players, what are some of the rumored negatives of Lindholm and Hanifin?  Carolina has one LD signed, why part with Hanifin?   

 

 

Because they got the best player in the deal and got a borderline blue chip prospect. I personally don't think you can argue that Carolina didn't win this trade in the short term. Maybe the flames do better in the long term, or it evens out, but right now Carolina is the winner so it makes sense why they were willing to move Hanifin. 

Negatives on Lindholm is he hasn't been able to translate his high skill into production. He should be more then a 15ish mid 40 or guy but it's not happening. Also his offence is streaky. 

Hanifin doesn't have the greatest decision making or high end hockey sense. Needs to improve in order to be able face tougher assignments 

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Because they got the best player in the deal and got a borderline blue chip prospect. I personally don't think you can argue that Carolina didn't win this trade in the short term. Maybe the flames do better in the long term, or it evens out, but right now Carolina is the winner so it makes sense why they were willing to move Hanifin. 

Negatives on Lindholm is he hasn't been able to translate his high skill into production. He should be more then a 15ish mid 40 or guy but it's not happening. Also his offence is streaky. 

Hanifin doesn't have the greatest decision making or high end hockey sense. Needs to improve in order to be able face tougher assignments 

 

I know a lot don’t take stock into what Craig Button says, but Button burned the players sent to the flames. He has been against them in all talks since they were rumoured to trade them. 

[The_People1]

28 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I'm curious about the timing of this trade.  Why did it occur on Saturday at the draft when no picks were involved?  Were teams not busy enough watching and jockeying for position in the draft order?

I'm reading lots of negatives about the 3 exiting Flames players.  Other than unsigned, what are some of the rumored negatives of Lindholm and Hanifin?  Carolina has one LD signed, why part with Hanifin?   

 

 

2 younger LD pushing to make the team.  Hayden Fleury played a few games last season and looked okay.  They also have Jake Bean who is probably ready.

 

The Hurricanes don't have a farm team if I'm not mistaken.  So the kids will have to develop in the NHL.

[Flyerfan52]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

2 younger LD pushing to make the team.  Hayden Fleury played a few games last season and looked okay.  They also have Jake Bean who is probably ready.

 

The Hurricanes don't have a farm team if I'm not mistaken.  So the kids will have to develop in the NHL.

Their farm team is the Charlotte Checkers. Fleury spent the 2016-17 season there. Bean joined them last year for 1 game after Tri-city was eliminated from WHL playoffs.

 

Florida Everblades are their ECHL team.

[The_People1]

56 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Because they got the best player in the deal and got a borderline blue chip prospect. I personally don't think you can argue that Carolina didn't win this trade in the short term. Maybe the flames do better in the long term, or it evens out, but right now Carolina is the winner so it makes sense why they were willing to move Hanifin. 

Negatives on Lindholm is he hasn't been able to translate his high skill into production. He should be more then a 15ish mid 40 or guy but it's not happening. Also his offence is streaky. 

Hanifin doesn't have the greatest decision making or high end hockey sense. Needs to improve in order to be able face tougher assignments 

 

Also Because the Canes couldn't come to terms with Lindholm so they were motivated to move him.

 

Some suggest Fox will turn pro right away now that he's not with the Flames... There was a RD log jam in Calgary BUT, if the Flames have a logjam, then the Canes have a wall.  Hamilton, Pesce, Faulk, VanReimdyk.  Forget making the team as RD for the next 5 years.  

 

So Fox remains a flight risk because he's not presented with a whole lot of opportunity to play in the NHL.

 

Yes agreed, it's fair to say the Canes win in the near term.  But Hanifin is very close.  Shows every sign of becoming just as good as Dougie in a year or two. Dougie still doesn't have a brain after all this time. Still undisciplined penalties.  Still bad turnovers.  And we don't even need to compare Lindholm to Ferland.  That's a Flames win hands down.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Their farm team is the Charlotte Checkers. Fleury spent the 2016-17 season there. Bean joined them last year for 1 game after Tri-city was eliminated from WHL playoffs.

 

Florida Everblades are their ECHL team.

 

Do they share their farm team with another team?  I recall they don't fully control their farm team.

[Flyerfan52]

40 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Do they share their farm team with another team?  I recall they don't fully control their farm team.

Not that I know of.

I know last season the Phantoms eliminated them in the 2nd round of playoffs in 5 games.

[The_Tribal Chief]

I look at this Trade As this Hamilton For hanifin ferlund for Lindhold Fox well he didnt want to be here so to Add for the better peices we may have been getting toss in fox cause if he wont sign her it is like tre said why keep him here period so personally i feel we got better yeah we lost a good defencemen but we got better imo in scoreing area now all this is nothing untill we see this team in october and how they play i think big big key is hanifin and linholm both know peters they what he expects so you got 2 players coming that know how  He expects things to be run

[rickross]

In hindsight you have to wonder if moving Freddie Hamilton was done on purpose to take Dougie out of his comfort zone. BT knew the move would upset Dougie, he apparently lost his desire to stay in Calgary and here we are today! It sounds sinister but if BT needed a way to bait Dougie into requesting a move or just a reason to move him, this could have been one way to get the desired result. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I know a lot don’t take stock into what Craig Button says, but Button burned the players sent to the flames. He has been against them in all talks since they were rumoured to trade them. 

 

"Burned" as in they shouldn't have moved them?

 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I will miss Ferland was one of my favorites, felt GG watered him down the past couple of season's but wish him well. Hamilton guy had all the intangibles but never uses them, sure he can score but what's with the behind the scenes issues, 2 teams at 25 and you can't fit in. He did play well after his brother left. Hamilton may seemed immature in nature loved to joke around dress up in Halloween costumes. There is some underlining issue we do not know of hope he straightens it out in the future. Fox was going to pull a classless move, which shows his true character. Hard to win as a team when you have guys that have no desire to be in the city. 

 

As for the trade if you break down everything from acquiring Hamilton to moving Hamilton we lost and we lost huge. This trade was a wash I believe Fox being added gained us or lost us nothing  anyway. We got faster, cheaper and younger but we also got softer with less offense. There were issues in Boston that Tre knew of and did not take heed of that he rolled the dice and lost.

 

I feel we are not done yet we are no better than we were 2 days ago. We still need to land a better RW and we also need a better bottom 6.

 

We lost the best player in the trade.  Many here complained about his lack of hockey sense without the puck and his stupid penalties.  Many complained that he had size but never used it to his advantage.  To me, those are the more important reasons for trading him than some rumors about Moxies or being a joker or pouting because his brother was gone.  Gio had to make up for his mistakes.  I'm sad to lose the goal scoring potential.

 

Ferland was getting watered down for more than one reason.  He was getting close to the 3 strike concussion situation.  But I also think he played differently game to game.  Some nights he would be passive and you wouldn;t even notice him out there.  Or he would drop pass to nobody.  Other nights he would use his skills to his advantage.  Obviously his shot was pretty good, because his SH% was high.  He was good in close.  He will be a UFA next year, so he would be increasingly expensive.  

 

I don;t think we got any softer.  Hanifin is not softer than Dougie.  Ferland averaged out to be semi-tough.  

 

We paid a 15th and a couple of 2nds and a roster player for a top 5 pick in Hanifin and a top 5 pick in Lindholm.  Steep price, but not insane.  We gave up 3 years of Dougie at a cheap price for up to 16 years of a couple of core players.  Future core that is.  

 

I agree that we aren't set.  Need to move on from Stone, Brouwer, and a few others.  Don't have a RW to play below Lindholm yet.  Have options to use Tkachuk, Frolik, and Bennett on RW for lines 2 and 3.  Have the option of using Mangiapane in the top 9.  The 4th line needs to be better than Brouwer, Shore and Lazar/Hathaway.  

 

.       

[rickross]

5 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I will miss Ferland was one of my favorites, felt GG watered him down the past couple of season's but wish him well. Hamilton guy had all the intangibles but never uses them, sure he can score but what's with the behind the scenes issues, 2 teams at 25 and you can't fit in. He did play well after his brother left. Hamilton may seemed immature in nature loved to joke around dress up in Halloween costumes. There is some underlining issue we do not know of hope he straightens it out in the future. Fox was going to pull a classless move, which shows his true character. Hard to win as a team when you have guys that have no desire to be in the city. 

 

As for the trade if you break down everything from acquiring Hamilton to moving Hamilton we lost and we lost huge. This trade was a wash I believe Fox being added gained us or lost us nothing  anyway. We got faster, cheaper and younger but we also got softer with less offense. There were issues in Boston that Tre knew of and did not take heed of that he rolled the dice and lost.

 

I feel we are not done yet we are no better than we were 2 days ago. We still need to land a better RW and we also need a better bottom 6.

Losing Ferland is a tough loss. He seemed to be the only player willing to step up for his teammates last year. No doubt Flames are currently a softer team without him...however we can still reacquire him next year when he's a UFA 

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ferland was getting watered down for more than one reason.  He was getting close to the 3 strike concussion situation.  But I also think he played differently game to game.  Some nights he would be passive and you wouldn;t even notice him out there.  Or he would drop pass to nobody.  Other nights he would use his skills to his advantage.  Obviously his shot was pretty good, because his SH% was high.  He was good in close.  He will be a UFA next year, so he would be increasingly expensive.  

 

Ya I agree.  But another thing is, while he can do it all, no one in this league can do it all, all the time.  Especially on first line minutes.  It's too taxing on the body and so he has to adjust his game for an 82 game season.  

 

When he goes into crash and bang mode for a week, scoring disappears.  When he goes on a scoring streak, the hits aren't there anymore.  Etc.

[ABC923]

I’m not sure I agree with this idea that Ferland was watered down.  He stopped going for the extreme hits I suppose, but was still the most physical player on the team.