Flames to play 2 peaseason games in China

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'll take Steinberg on.

I agree with Peluso.

But it gives Gillies no chance. If they sent Rittich, that would be Gillies' better chance imho.

They're giving Rittich game reps here through camp that he won't get in China. I would deduce he's the back up from that.

Czarnick vs Hathaway vs Lazar. Guessing Hathaway comes away with it on experience, Czarnik a 13th fwd.

Klimchuk vs Klimchuk. Peluso isn't a challenger, just the 14th spot.

I love that Klimchuk is going. Which relates directly to I love that Huska is now an assistant with the big club

I can only imagine how revved up he must be to get a real shot, as opposed to a GG shot.

I'm hyped up, I'd love him as a 4 LW to get him started as an NHLer.

 

 

Peluso and Prout may be there just for the inevitable dust up from a Marchand licking (or other duchebaggery).

Klimchuk may be there simply because he's the elder prospect with little NHL exposure.  They need to know what he is.  Probably gets one game.

Dube, Mangiapane and Foo will see the most ice here.  As BT put it, just because a player goes or doesn't go doesn't mean he starts with the team. 

 

Not dissing Klimchuk, but he's git big shoes to fill to make it into the top 14.  Czarnik and Mangiapane are both p/gp AHL players at this point.  Hathaway and Lazar are NHL players, fringe or not.  Klimchuk's strength is playing a safer 200 foot game.  Nothing wrong with that, but it really depends on what the line's purpose is.

 

What I like about the China trip is that it gives the top 11F and top 6D the chance to work as a team for a couple of games, with very few distractions of PTO's, prospects with zero chance of staying, and camp invites.  The top 2F and top 2D from the guys left behind will be battling it out for the remaining couple of spots. 

 

I'm probably off base, but I expect Andersson to be 5th D, and Stone, Kulak, Valimaki and Kylington to be battling it out for the final two spots.  At forward, I would say that Czarnik gets top 12, with Lazar, Hathaway, Foo, Mangiapane and Klimchuk battling for the final main spot.  Still a ways off, but reading between the lines, that's how I see it.      

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

He isn't even Asian though. His dad is from South America and his mom is from Alberta. Probably saves him from having to answer that question a hundred times.

 

He's half Chinese by ethnicity.  

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Not dissing Klimchuk, but he's git big shoes to fill to make it into the top 14.  Czarnik and Mangiapane are both p/gp AHL players at this point.  Hathaway and Lazar are NHL players, fringe or not.  Klimchuk's strength is playing a safer 200 foot game.  Nothing wrong with that, but it really depends on what the line's purpose is.

 

I don't see big shoes at all for 4th line LW unless Frolik is moving to LW.

Czarnik and Mangiapane are top 6 type players.

I think keeping Mangia-Dube-Foo as 1st line AHL and 1st callups likely makes more sense. Not much point in having those guys at 8mins/gm.

Klimchuk is better suited for the potentially available spot. Because he'd also be good on the 2 PK.

[The_People1]

35 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't see big shoes at all for 4th line LW unless Frolik is moving to LW.

Czarnik and Mangiapane are top 6 type players.

I think keeping Mangia-Dube-Foo as 1st line AHL and 1st callups likely makes more sense. Not much point in having those guys at 8mins/gm.

Klimchuk is better suited for the potentially available spot. Because he'd also be good on the 2 PK.

 

Ya agreed.  

 

Klimchuk is not here to score goals per se.  Just play a two way game.  Be a PK guy.

[conundrumed]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya agreed.  

 

Klimchuk is not here to score goals per se.  Just play a two way game.  Be a PK guy.

I think if you look at Jankowski eventually taking over Backlund, I think it's the same mold to look at Klimchuk eventually taking over Frolik.

I really hope they get Klimchuk going this year. Excellent swiss army knife guy imo. His vision, passing and knowing when the safe play is the better option stands out for me.

From the moment Peluso was signed, I assumed he'd be 14. Czarnik and Foo can fight out the 13th. But it will be gifted to Czarnik imo.

My hope for the 4th line is

Klimchuk-Jankowski-Hathaway

Covers a few things. Jankowski is too weak defensively. Klimchuk should be to him as Frolik to Backlund.

Hathaway is an ideal 4th liner if we forget last year as a 3rd liner. Annoy, be disruptive and draw penalties.

Like Tkachuk without the offence imho.

A lot of people want to re-invent what a 4th line is.

I hope that doesn't happen. It would be a horror show,imo, to go with, say:

Mangia-Janx-Czarnik/Foo.

It's a different role. Thinking Janx is defensively responsible enough to look after that is a big mistake, because he isn't. It's something he needs to get better at.

And that's why I'd add Klimchuk with him. I believe he'd make Janx better.

 

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think if you look at Jankowski eventually taking over Backlund, I think it's the same mold to look at Klimchuk eventually taking over Frolik.

I really hope they get Klimchuk going this year. Excellent swiss army knife guy imo. His vision, passing and knowing when the safe play is the better option stands out for me.

From the moment Peluso was signed, I assumed he'd be 14. Czarnik and Foo can fight out the 13th. But it will be gifted to Czarnik imo.

My hope for the 4th line is

Klimchuk-Jankowski-Hathaway

Covers a few things. Jankowski is too weak defensively. Klimchuk should be to him as Frolik to Backlund.

Hathaway is an ideal 4th liner if we forget last year as a 3rd liner. Annoy, be disruptive and draw penalties.

Like Tkachuk without the offence imho.

A lot of people want to re-invent what a 4th line is.

I hope that doesn't happen. It would be a horror show,imo, to go with, say:

Mangia-Janx-Czarnik/Foo.

It's a different role. Thinking Janx is defensively responsible enough to look after that is a big mistake, because he isn't. It's something he needs to get better at.

And that's why I'd add Klimchuk with him. I believe he'd make Janx better.

 

 

I don't disagree with your logic of wanting some defensive responsibility on the 4th line.  Where I digress a bit is that Bennett-Frolik (assuming they play on the 3rd together) is miles ahead defensively.  Feed Backlund the worst zone starts, followed by Bennett's line.  Save the prime starts for top line and 4th line.  Last year we saw a lot of Stajan/Brouwer getting crushed, and that line is a responsible one.  

 

Was listening to Pinder/Steinberg about the bottom 6.  They believe that Lazar will be waived, that Peluso and Hathaway will be the 13/14, and that one of Mangiapane or Foo would be the 12th guy, with Czarnik being the 11th.  Hathaway and Peluso are both guys that you bring in to play a role every so often, then go back to the press box.  Really, Peluso is only there when you know you have to tune somebody up.  While I don;t agree with a lot of what Steinberg says, I think these guys are right this time.  Because they agree with me. 

   

[travel_dude]

Anyone know of where you cna watch the game against the Oilers today Sunday at 2pm?  I can't get there in person.  Was hoping it to be streamed somewhere.

[cccsberg]

20 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think if you look at Jankowski eventually taking over Backlund, I think it's the same mold to look at Klimchuk eventually taking over Frolik.

I really hope they get Klimchuk going this year. Excellent swiss army knife guy imo. His vision, passing and knowing when the safe play is the better option stands out for me.

From the moment Peluso was signed, I assumed he'd be 14. Czarnik and Foo can fight out the 13th. But it will be gifted to Czarnik imo.

My hope for the 4th line is

Klimchuk-Jankowski-Hathaway

Covers a few things. Jankowski is too weak defensively. Klimchuk should be to him as Frolik to Backlund.

Hathaway is an ideal 4th liner if we forget last year as a 3rd liner. Annoy, be disruptive and draw penalties.

Like Tkachuk without the offence imho.

A lot of people want to re-invent what a 4th line is.

I hope that doesn't happen. It would be a horror show,imo, to go with, say:

Mangia-Janx-Czarnik/Foo.

It's a different role. Thinking Janx is defensively responsible enough to look after that is a big mistake, because he isn't. It's something he needs to get better at.

And that's why I'd add Klimchuk with him. I believe he'd make Janx better.

 

I think you're way off base re Jankowski's D.  I'd say he's already one of the team's better defensively-responsible forwards, and likely still improving.  

[The_People1]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Was listening to Pinder/Steinberg about the bottom 6.  They believe that Lazar will be waived,

 

I hope so.  The kid has good wheels and a great attitude.  I think they thought he could be the next Craig Conroy.   But nope.  Outside of those two attributes, Lazar can't really hockey.  Just doesn't flow together with his linemates, doesn't have instincts (works hard doesn't work smart), and just always disconnected with what's happening around him.  No shot, average passing, average board talents, etc etc.  Just not NHL material.  

[The_People1]

22 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think if you look at Jankowski eventually taking over Backlund, I think it's the same mold to look at Klimchuk eventually taking over Frolik.

I really hope they get Klimchuk going this year. Excellent swiss army knife guy imo. His vision, passing and knowing when the safe play is the better option stands out for me.

From the moment Peluso was signed, I assumed he'd be 14. Czarnik and Foo can fight out the 13th. But it will be gifted to Czarnik imo.

My hope for the 4th line is

Klimchuk-Jankowski-Hathaway

Covers a few things. Jankowski is too weak defensively. Klimchuk should be to him as Frolik to Backlund.

Hathaway is an ideal 4th liner if we forget last year as a 3rd liner. Annoy, be disruptive and draw penalties.

Like Tkachuk without the offence imho.

A lot of people want to re-invent what a 4th line is.

I hope that doesn't happen. It would be a horror show,imo, to go with, say:

Mangia-Janx-Czarnik/Foo.

It's a different role. Thinking Janx is defensively responsible enough to look after that is a big mistake, because he isn't. It's something he needs to get better at.

And that's why I'd add Klimchuk with him. I believe he'd make Janx better.

 

 

While Jankowski is not as good defensively as Backlund, he's better offensively than Backlund.  I feel Jankowski is better suited for a top 6 role where he focuses on scoring more than defense.  Gaudreau-Jankowski was fruitful for a short stint.  Backlund should fall back into a defensive specialist role.

 

If Backlund is too expensive for that role then move him.  Lindholm is close to the same talents and younger plus improving.

[travel_dude]

On 9/8/2018 at 9:57 AM, conundrumed said:

I don't see big shoes at all for 4th line LW unless Frolik is moving to LW.

Czarnik and Mangiapane are top 6 type players.

I think keeping Mangia-Dube-Foo as 1st line AHL and 1st callups likely makes more sense. Not much point in having those guys at 8mins/gm.

Klimchuk is better suited for the potentially available spot. Because he'd also be good on the 2 PK.

 

You must be keeping a closer eye on Klimchuk in the AHL than me.  

I only have one game of actual NHL experience to base it on, plus the people that do write ups on his AHL play.

If we are running 4 lines that are expected to score, then having Janko there with a couple of goal scorers, then you want similar types (AHL scoring prowess).  If we are running a 4th line you just want to keep the puck out, then Klimchuk makes sense.  8 minutes makes sense.

 

Where I am coming from is expectations that we roll the bottom 6 according to how they are playing and special team makeup.  If that's not the case, then all bets are off.

[JTech780]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/qa-gm-treliving-flames-upcoming-china-trip/

 

Quote

Sportsnet: Should anybody read into the roster decisions you made for China, which sees opening night hopefuls like Juuso Valimaki, David Rittich, Andrew Mangiapane and Spencer Foo left behind for the camp in Calgary?

Brad Treliving: Somebody said to me the other day, ‘so and so got left off.’ Nobody got ‘left off.’ What we looked at all summer is we’ve got two camps. The priority of going to China is that everybody knows who is going to be on the team. Well, Bill Peters needs to get to know Johnny Gaudreau, Sean Monahan, Mark Giordano, Matthew Tkachuk and that group.

If you’re a guy trying to make the team, going to China is probably not the best thing. There are probably going to be four games (in North America) when it’s all said and done that nobody in China is going to participate in. It’s a great opportunity for those staying here. We designed it specifically for that.

(VP Hockey Operations) Don Maloney and (assistant GM) Brad Pascall will be in Calgary. Bill will probably be up watching every game (from China) and he’ll be talking to the coaching staff. Nothing is going to happen here that we don’t know about right after it happens. We’ve got it fully covered.

When we get back we’ll make one big group and go from there.

 

Good quote from Treliving about who is and isn't going to China.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/qa-gm-treliving-flames-upcoming-china-trip/

 

 

Good quote from Treliving about who is and isn't going to China.

 

I think he said the exact same thing prior to picking the China roster.

Reading between the lines, you can't assume Lazar makes the roster, nor Hathaway nor Peluso nor Prout.

What his comments tell me though, is that there is a core that will be on the roster regardless of camps.

That extends to 10-11F, 4D and 1G.  

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

Anyone know which coaching staff stays and who goes? Are we really going to get an apples to apples comparison from a fringe player in China as opposed to one that stays?  Sure it shouldnt matter whos behind the bench during those games, if the system is the same. But you know thats not %100 realistic.

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Anyone know which coaching staff stays and who goes? Are we really going to get an apples to apples comparison from a fringe player in China as opposed to one that stays?  Sure it shouldnt matter whos behind the bench during those games, if the system is the same. But you know thats not %100 realistic.

 

Stockton's bench boss here, and Pascall and Maloney from the management team.  They will supply feedback to China team and they will also be watching the games in China (via feed).  Nothing will get decided about opening roster at that point, but they may cut some players during that time.  Junior players going back to junior.  PLayers on AHL contracts and ATO's may get cut.  They don;t really want to carry 50 players through the full camp.

[Cowtownguy]

On September 8, 2018 at 11:42 AM, travel_dude said:

 

I don't disagree with your logic of wanting some defensive responsibility on the 4th line.  Where I digress a bit is that Bennett-Frolik (assuming they play on the 3rd together) is miles ahead defensively.  Feed Backlund the worst zone starts, followed by Bennett's line.  Save the prime starts for top line and 4th line.  Last year we saw a lot of Stajan/Brouwer getting crushed, and that line is a responsible one.  

 

Was listening to Pinder/Steinberg about the bottom 6.  They believe that Lazar will be waived, that Peluso and Hathaway will be the 13/14, and that one of Mangiapane or Foo would be the 12th guy, with Czarnik being the 11th.  Hathaway and Peluso are both guys that you bring in to play a role every so often, then go back to the press box.  Really, Peluso is only there when you know you have to tune somebody up.  While I don;t agree with a lot of what Steinberg says, I think these guys are right this time.  Because they agree with me. 

   

I kind of enjoy Steinberg's analysis. I don't always agree with him, but he sure is articulate. 

[robrob74]

On 2018-09-12 at 5:36 PM, Cowtownguy said:

I kind of enjoy Steinberg's analysis. I don't always agree with him, but he sure is articulate. 

 

Pinder sucks. He seems not interested most of the time, in interviews at least. He flies through them so fast just to get it over with.

[cccsberg]

Just watched the first game in China.  Standouts were Czarnik, Ryan, Gio, and Gaudreau to a lesser extent.  Overall the team played well and but for a couple breakdowns in the first pretty much controlled the game.  Of course after a 3-0 lead Boston kinda sat back.  Really impressed with Czarnik and Ryan, while the other new guys came as advertised.   It was sure nice to have hockey back again! 

 

I’m wondering if the sitters get in the second game?  It would be nice to see Klimchuk and Smith especially.  Hathaway did fine as far as it goes, but doesn’t really move the needle forward.  I would think that all of Dube, Mangiapane, Foo? and Anderson plus Kylington? and perhaps a couple others have a shot at making the team, especially Dube and Anderson.... 

[TheFan99]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Just watched the first game in China.  Standouts were Czarnik, Ryan, Gio, and Gaudreau to a lesser extent.  Overall the team played well and but for a couple breakdowns in the first pretty much controlled the game.  Of course after a 3-0 lead Boston kinda sat back.  Really impressed with Czarnik and Ryan, while the other new guys came as advertised.   It was sure nice to have hockey back again! 

 

I’m wondering if the sitters get in the second game?  It would be nice to see Klimchuk and Smith especially.  Hathaway did fine as far as it goes, but doesn’t really move the needle forward.  I would think that all of Dube, Mangiapane, Foo? and Anderson plus Kylington? and perhaps a couple others have a shot at making the team, especially Dube and Anderson.... 

Derek Ryan looked pretty good. I don't know how Gio keeps doing it. 35 and still holds the puck until the last second and takes the hit. Anyone think Dube can take Jankowskis spot? That kid can fly.

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, TheFan99 said:

Derek Ryan looked pretty good. Anyone think Dube can take Jankowskis spot? That kid can fly.

It's hard to resist reading into some of the situations we see the coaches trying on the ice. Aside from the players who stood out, this game made me step back and consider a few other possibilities. If we are going to need a starting Goalie after this season would we be better served to go with a tandem of Smith and Gilles now. Rittich I think we would all agree could be great back up material so getting more reps in Stockton won't derail him. I liked the line of Frolik LW, Ryan C and Czarnik RW and how they played together. If this were to prevail into the season then our 4th line would be set up for constant competition from current players that have been on the previous roster but also others now can challenge. I don't think management will back away from advancing Bennett and Jankowski but the competition for their jobs are closer to realizing their time in the NHL. Kind of puts the situation into perspective for everyone, Perform you Play.

[Carty]

Decent overall effort by the Flames for the first exhibition game...   Halak made some great saves for the Bruins...   Shame to lose it in a shootout...

 

I think that he new additions will help the team quite a bit this season...   There were some really nice plays by Lindholm, Czarnik and Ryan...   It will take a while for things to gel and for the team to build some more chemistry, but I think that we are going to see some entertaining hockey this season...

 

Back on the right side, Brodie looked better already...   Hanifin will do just fine after he settles in...   We might not miss Hamilton at all after a while...

 

Nice to have a coach that knows what a timeout is...   Peters called one with 52 seconds left in the game, changed up the PP and the Gio scored his second to tie the game...

 

Also good to see that Peters actually watches the game instead of relentlessly staring at the monitor in the floor of the bench...

 

Gillies looked a little shaky in the 1st when the Bruins scored 3 times in under 2 minutes...   The first 2 goals were a bit soft...   But then Gillies settled down and played well...   Looked like he was playing stiff in the shootout though...   Overall, Gillies still has some things to work on but showed that he has potential to stick in the bigs...   Smith will be in the net against the Bruins on Wednesday...

 

[JTech780]

Other than Gillies, which I am willing to give him a pass based on the fact that he no practice time, there were no Flames that looked awful in the first pre season game. Everyone played pretty well. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Just watched the first game in China.  Standouts were Czarnik, Ryan, Gio, and Gaudreau to a lesser extent.  Overall the team played well and but for a couple breakdowns in the first pretty much controlled the game.  Of course after a 3-0 lead Boston kinda sat back.  Really impressed with Czarnik and Ryan, while the other new guys came as advertised.   It was sure nice to have hockey back again! 

 

I’m wondering if the sitters get in the second game?  It would be nice to see Klimchuk and Smith especially.  Hathaway did fine as far as it goes, but doesn’t really move the needle forward.  I would think that all of Dube, Mangiapane, Foo? and Anderson plus Kylington? and perhaps a couple others have a shot at making the team, especially Dube and Anderson.... 

 

Czarnik was good.  I wasn't as impressed with Ryan though.  He seems to just be nothing special although it's just preseason.

 

But that line Frolik - Ryan - Czarnik on paper seems like the "leftovers" line but in some ways they work.  All smart players with speed and think the game the same.  They could be very underrated for us.

 

Lindholm - he didn't show much elite skills but was at the right place at the right time.  Looked like average vision, average passing, and couldn't finish when given glorious chances.  But his awareness and hockey sense is solid.

 

Hanifin - showed some flash.  Had the confidence to carry the puck all the way into the offensive corners looking to create something.  His lateral skating was amazing.  If he can shoot the puck, the he's going to be an offensive force.  From what I saw, he wasn't on the PP which is disappointing because there is potential there.  But what do you do when Gio and Brodie are both LHS on the PP point?  We seem to be deploying 1 D again.

 

Brodie - looks like Brodano never took a break.  Just so naturally worked again like it was meant to be.  It will be a great season for Brodie from the looks of it.

 

Hamonic - Hanifin pairing - looked like it might work.  Good size and speed here.  I'm liking it.  Will have to see if chemistry develops further.

 

Kulak - Stone - nothing much to write home about.

 

Bennett - looks good every preseason.   Every year.  Just hope this time it translates to the regular season.  He looks strong and ready.  Mid season form.

 

Jankowski - not sure about the whole Bennett - Jankowski line. This was one line that didn't quite click for me like.  No sync or something.

 

Neal - had some chances but he looked slow overall.  I know he has never been known for speed but i worry if he's not sniping, then he is not going to be the one creating the chances.  He's going to be in the doghouse.

 

Gillies - blocker side high.  That's where they were shooting with success.  That and I never liked Gillies style because he plays from his knees too much.  Not cutting down the angle much preferring to stay in his net.  Overall slow lateral and slow instincts.  Relies on being big alone too much.

[The_People1]

16 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Other than Gillies, which I am willing to give him a pass based on the fact that he no practice time, there were no Flames that looked awful in the first pre season game. Everyone played pretty well. 

 

Gillies needs to stop playing from his knees.  Puck moves from behind the net to the corner and he's on all fours.

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Czarnik was good.  I wasn't as impressed with Ryan though.  He seems to just be nothing special although it's just preseason.

 

But that line Frolik - Ryan - Czarnik on paper seems like the "leftovers" line but in some ways they work.  All smart players with speed and think the game the same.  They could be very underrated for us.

 

Lindholm - he didn't show much elite skills but was at the right place at the right time.  Looked like average vision, average passing, and couldn't finish when given glorious chances.  But his awareness and hockey sense is solid.

 

Hanifin - showed some flash.  Had the confidence to carry the puck all the way into the offensive corners looking to create something.  His lateral skating was amazing.  If he can shoot the puck, the he's going to be an offensive force.  From what I saw, he wasn't on the PP which is disappointing because there is potential there.  But what do you do when Gio and Brodie are both LHS on the PP point?  We seem to be deploying 1 D again.

 

Brodie - looks like Brodano never took a break.  Just so naturally worked again like it was meant to be.  It will be a great season for Brodie from the looks of it.

 

Hamonic - Hanifin pairing - looked like it might work.  Good size and speed here.  I'm liking it.  Will have to see if chemistry develops further.

 

Kulak - Stone - nothing much to write home about.

 

Bennett - looks good every preseason.   Every year.  Just hope this time it translates to the regular season.  He looks strong and ready.  Mid season form.

 

Jankowski - not sure about the whole Bennett - Jankowski line. This was one line that didn't quite click for me like.  No sync or something.

 

Neal - had some chances but he looked slow overall.  I know he has never been known for speed but i worry if he's not sniping, then he is not going to be the one creating the chances.  He's going to be in the doghouse.

 

Gillies - blocker side high.  That's where they were shooting with success.  That and I never liked Gillies style because he plays from his knees too much.  Not cutting down the angle much preferring to stay in his net.  Overall slow lateral and slow instincts.  Relies on being big alone too much.

 

One thing to keep in mind with Gillies too, is that this game was played on an Olympic size ice, which drastically changes the angles for the goalies. After watching some of the highlights it looked like he lost his net a bit on a few of the shots.