kehatch Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 Then fire Gulutzan for hiring Cameron. Special teams is killing this team. Enough is enough. Time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 like i just posted in the other thread.. swap him for Paul Maclean .. even the irony would be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just to point it out, Cameron was hired collectively so let's point the finger at Treliving and Burke too. Collective fail, which makes it mor frustrating. Never understood the hire and this is actually doable given Gelinas could easily just come down from the box and take over. It's not all his fault but they need some tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, cross16 said: Just to point it out, Cameron was hired collectively so let's point the finger at Treliving and Burke too. Collective fail, which makes it mor frustrating. Never understood the hire and this is actually doable given Gelinas could easily just come down from the box and take over. It's not all his fault but they need some tweaks. They need something. EN = fail. PP = fail. There's no way we lose this game with one timely PP goal. Player usage looks tired. Should have more than one look if the guys used aren;t getting it done. If Brodie isn;t doing well at evens or PK, then why use him on the PP. Monahan was bad for most of the game, yet there is no other option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted February 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 There is no reason to have a poor power play with guys like Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton, Tkachuk, Giordano, etc. Yes we are missing a RH shot up front, but we have so many weapons. Time for a coaching change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 I still recall the line that scared me right out of the gate when he was Hired ... "Although the Senators had one of the NHL’s worst power-play percentages during the 2015-16 campaign, Cameron will work with the man-advantage unit in Calgary." They talk about it almost every day on the FAN.. Johnny with all his skill, has a lousy shot , yet he plays a PP position that requires one , hes being used incorrectly .. if anything he should simply be passing to open guys and carrying it in close when he sees an opening .. being a waterbug in traffic . This makes our PP easier to defend because the danger will come from the right , not the left.. it almost negates the Pp because you barely have to cover him , just keep him to the outside This is not a Gg thing , the only way Id be even thinking Head coach change is if Quenneville hits the market in the summer.. (he might ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 I think that everyone here probably knows how I feel on the matter... Firing Cameron is way overdue... Treliving, Burke and Gully all share responsibility for his being hired, and for the delay in firing his Hash Rate... Cameron is not the only member of the coaching staff that has been skating on thin ice for too long either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: I still recall the line that scared me right out of the gate when he was Hired ... "Although the Senators had one of the NHL’s worst power-play percentages during the 2015-16 campaign, Cameron will work with the man-advantage unit in Calgary." They talk about it almost every day on the FAN.. Johnny with all his skill, has a lousy shot , yet he plays a PP position that requires one , hes being used incorrectly .. if anything he should simply be passing to open guys and carrying it in close when he sees an opening .. being a waterbug in traffic . This makes our PP easier to defend because the danger will come from the right , not the left.. it almost negates the Pp because you barely have to cover him , just keep him to the outside This is not a Gg thing , the only way Id be even thinking Head coach change is if Quenneville hits the market in the summer.. (he might ) I think you need to qualify that. JH on the LW is not the best side to use him. He has very little net to work with. From the RW, he is less on an angle and is closer to the middle. That's not even the biggest problem. There's no use of a one-timer from the circles. They no passing down low or from behind the net. Nothing going cross-crease. THree ways that goals can be scored and we don;t use them. Those are set plays. Ask the Sedin's, Maroon's, Ovi's, and Laine's of the world. Gio's a great defender, but he hasn't been very effective on the PP in awhile. You can guess exactly where he's going to shift to or shoot from. Very easy to block his shots. Not blaming him, but he's not the most mobile guy on the point. All of this comes down to one person. Cameron. He's done nothing in his time here. Time for a change. Send a message to the coaching staff and to the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 there are 4 big issues I have with the PP 1. They do not utilize the middle player in the 1-3-1 (the Monahan spot for example). The point of the 1-3-1 is to creat multiple options with the puck to generate faster puck movement. By not utilizing thst middle guy it allows the PK to stay in their box and keep pucks to the outside. Thst guy needs to move up and down the seem to creat options or they need a rotation thst has the net front guy move out to open up a passing lane. Team canada did a great job of this at the world juniors. Dube was in the middle and was always moving and always finding open ice to remain a passing option. Flames don't do this and it essentially makes it a 4 on 4 PP. 2. They do not shoot enough ( this probably is not entirely Cameron's fault) 3. They either rush plays or they wait for the perfect one. They always seem to be in a rush to step up, which often leads to turnovers and then once they are set up they are too patient. Content to slowly move th puck around and wait for the perfect shot. This is likely a by product of points 1 and 2. 4. They do not use Dougie Hamilton enough. He should be their top dman on the PP in terms of TOI and he's not even close. The 1-3-1 is a great PP and I don't think think th flames need to abandoned it. Worth remembering how good they were last year on it, but they do need to tweak their execution and usage. I don't think the Flames have the pieces for a top end PP but there is no excuse for not being at least league avg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I think you need to qualify that. JH on the LW is not the best side to use him. He has very little net to work with. From the RW, he is less on an angle and is closer to the middle. That's not even the biggest problem. There's no use of a one-timer from the circles. They no passing down low or from behind the net. Nothing going cross-crease. THree ways that goals can be scored and we don;t use them. Those are set plays. Ask the Sedin's, Maroon's, Ovi's, and Laine's of the world. Gio's a great defender, but he hasn't been very effective on the PP in awhile. You can guess exactly where he's going to shift to or shoot from. Very easy to block his shots. Not blaming him, but he's not the most mobile guy on the point. All of this comes down to one person. Cameron. He's done nothing in his time here. Time for a change. Send a message to the coaching staff and to the players. Let me toss another nail in his coffin .. its no secret Coaches, GM's .. etc.. tend to go with what they know (we call it playing favourites ) We traded for Lack in large part due to GG's opinion and familiarity.. BT makes trades with Phoenix..GG also Im sure had a hand in us getting Vey (who i think had great potential if he'd stayed) ..Bartkowski (who filled a need last year , just not this year ) and Chiasson .. etc there is only one person in this organization , who knew enough and could have been the push to convince BT to give up a 2nd rounder for Lazar...... guess who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, cross16 said: Just to point it out, Cameron was hired collectively so let's point the finger at Treliving and Burke too. Collective fail, which makes it mor frustrating. Never understood the hire and this is actually doable given Gelinas could easily just come down from the box and take over. It's not all his fault but they need some tweaks. It may have looked like a collective hire at the time but I don’t think GG had much say in the hire. GG picked his assistant in Jerrard and towed the company line in the Cameron hire. I think Cameron was all BT and it stunk from the beginning like an insurance policy should GG and company not work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, CheersMan said: It may have looked like a collective hire at the time but I don’t think GG had much say in the hire. GG picked his assistant in Jerrard and towed the company line in the Cameron hire. I think Cameron was all BT and it stunk from the beginning like an insurance policy should GG and company not work out. to be fair, it really is His mess to clean up .. heres a quote from the same article: Gulutzan was first quizzed about could-be cohorts during his own job interview with the Flames, and he told reporters Wednesday at WinSport that both Cameron and the 51-year-old Jerrard — his sidekick in Dallas and before then at AHL Texas — were on his initial list This is the full article: http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-hire-former-senators-head-coach-dave-cameron-as-assistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 The Sharks have one of the best special teams in the NHL, both PP and PK. Who is there special teams coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fins&FIre15 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 I have nothing productive to add, but seriously... enough is enough. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 This needs to gain traction before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 As I recall, we had this conversation last year as well. I seem to recall the PP gunning around 7% over the first month or two of the season, before suddenly catching fire sometime in the new year. Not sure what happened, but it likely saved Cameron's job. This year we started off decently and have been awful since the new year. The good times last year were an anomaly, this is the norm under cameron. It's very strange we keep running the same PP over and over, with only minor tweeks to the personel. The fact that a lot of us on this board can see the problems while the coaching staff seems unable to is even more baffling. We need to try a different PP. It's not like it can get much worse. My suggestions: -In general, keep our zone entry, but dump it in a bit more often to keep the other team guessing. We're not too bad at gaining the zone, just useless once we have it -Stop playing JG at the high boards/point. Having a good puck distributor up high is important, but if they aren't a shooting threat it becomes much easier to defend. Play JG below the hash marks or behind the net. This would give a creative player like JG more options. As it is, he only has three options: pass to the near point, down low to Mony, or take a weak shot from the perimeter. From down low he can feed the slot, point, or side boards, or drive the net if the defenders give him ice -Move. Seriously, the puck carrier in the zone doesn't do anything to open the play up. It's like they've been told to stay within a certain 15 ft radius with the puck. When was the last time a point man carried the puck down low, or a forward use some speed to go behind the net? These plays aren't dangerous on their own, but force the defenders to be more aware of their surroundings. Right now they can just box it out and not really worry about losing their coverage. Also, players without the puck need to move too. They mostly just stand in their pre-arranged positions and hope the puck magically appears to them. They are easy to defend. MOVE. -One timers. We don't try them. And I don't mean the play where a soft D-D pass ends in a one timer. I mean a hard cross ice pass play, or a one timer from the high slot. We have two great one timers in Ferland and Monahan, but we almost never get them into a shooting position. (It's probably because no one moves enough to shake their coverage). Every good PP in the league has a real one-timer threat. We do not. -Through traffic shots. We do it too much. It's a good play from time to time, but it's almost the only play we try. Our PP loses so much momentum, because almost every time a shot is attempted it winds up blocked and cleared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 ABC, I think the plays and player usage is set. They haven't tried anything different much that I can see. Gio does exactly what Brodie used to do. Hammy is a good add, but isn't shooting enough. Johnny has no options to pass to, so it's back to Gio. I think you have to blow it up and start over. Weird to only fire one A/coach, but I don't have any other solution. Ok, so you move him to player development or something and bring in someone fresh or Gelinas. Message sent loud and clear. Half-butted changes by swapping out one player don't cut it. The fans and team would get behind this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, travel_dude said: ABC, I think the plays and player usage is set. They haven't tried anything different much that I can see. Gio does exactly what Brodie used to do. Hammy is a good add, but isn't shooting enough. Johnny has no options to pass to, so it's back to Gio. I think you have to blow it up and start over. Weird to only fire one A/coach, but I don't have any other solution. Ok, so you move him to player development or something and bring in someone fresh or Gelinas. Message sent loud and clear. Half-butted changes by swapping out one player don't cut it. The fans and team would get behind this move. I think we're in agreement. Simply shuffling personnel is just moving the deck on chairs on the titanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 16 hours ago, cross16 said: Just to point it out, Cameron was hired collectively so let's point the finger at Treliving and Burke too. Collective fail, which makes it mor frustrating. Never understood the hire and this is actually doable given Gelinas could easily just come down from the box and take over. It's not all his fault but they need some tweaks. I would be all for this having Gelinas back on the bench and letting Cameron go. It could also serve as a wake up call for GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBurn Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 Cameron must go now. Hopefully Gully gets the boot too. Tippett is not coaching and should be. I can't stress enough how much better we would be under his leadership. BT knows him well so it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, TheBurn said: Cameron must go now. Hopefully Gully gets the boot too. Tippett is not coaching and should be. I can't stress enough how much better we would be under his leadership. BT knows him well so it's possible. Maybe bring in Tippett to run our PP. Can't hurt and it would be a wake up call for GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBurn Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 40 minutes ago, redfire11 said: Maybe bring in Tippett to run our PP. Can't hurt and it would be a wake up call for GG. I would be okay with that. Don't know if he would be though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 You can add me to the list. You have to give a guy some time to produce results. I think he has been given that time, and I do not see much improvement at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 6 hours ago, MAC331 said: I would be all for this having Gelinas back on the bench and letting Cameron go. It could also serve as a wake up call for GG. Seeing as he should be reporting from above, not sure I love that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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