So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'm a fan of those kind of moves. I want Oshie and all, but boarding me, what did a couple of adjustments on the backend do for us?

It doesn't have to be expensive to shore up the F group.

You have to allocate your money wisely in the cap world. This offseason should and could allow BT the opportunity to get it right for us. He has made things tight on himself giving Frolik and Brouwer both 4.5M which is likely a million over what either should be paid. You can afford to do such deals when you have low paid star power propping up the team performance. I like TJ Oshie at 5years and no more than 5.5M per season, this provides the type of player we need for the top line and keeps him here past the expiring contracts of Frolik and Brouwer.

Stajan and Bouma need to go this offseason some how some way. Both positions should be filled with low cost prospects with some talent like Jankowski and Klimchuk IMO not Nate Thompson.

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I am curious to see what happens down the middle with this team in the off-season. With Monahan, Backlund, Bennett, Stajan and Lazar all coming back next year and Jankowski looking like he is very close to making the jump. I think Bennett needs to take another step next year and I am not sure if playing 3rd line minutes is going to get him there. Backlund took another big step forward this year and he is really relied upon for his defensive ability. I like Stajan and what he brings to this team, but it is probably time for him to move on, whether it is in the expansion draft, trade or buyout.

 

It will be interesting to see if there is a possibility of Backlund or Bennett getting moved for help elsewhere (RW or G). Then you could end up with Monahan as the number 1 center, Backlund or Bennett as the 2nd line center, Lazar on the 3rd line, and Stajan if we can't move or Jankowski as the 4th line center, though I would like a bit more grit and faceoff ability on the 4th line. 

 

Nate Thompson is a UFA, he brings size, grit and faceoff ability, to me he is the ideal 4th line center. Just not sure what kind of contract he would be looking for, and we would have to clear out Stajan first.

Stajan has to go and be replaced by Jankowski IMO. If we were to have Oshie, Brouwer, Lazar and Versteeg down the RW all RHS and face off options to support the LHS C we will be in good shape. This allows us to have Monahan, Backlund, Bennett and Jankowski to the middle which looks good to me.

[cccsberg]

56 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You have to allocate your money wisely in the cap world. This offseason should and could allow BT the opportunity to get it right for us. He has made things tight on himself giving Frolik and Brouwer both 4.5M which is likely a million over what either should be paid. You can afford to do such deals when you have low paid star power propping up the team performance. I like TJ Oshie at 5years and no more than 5.5M per season, this provides the type of player we need for the top line and keeps him here past the expiring contracts of Frolik and Brouwer.

Stajan and Bouma need to go this offseason some how some way. Both positions should be filled with low cost prospects with some talent like Jankowski and Klimchuk IMO not Nate Thompson.

Likely the first thing to impact our mini-makeover this summer will be the expansion draft.  Unless Vegas takes a prospect like Kulak all the rest are vets that we can afford to lose and might help clearing a contract.  If it's one of Bouma, Stajan or Brouwer it'll open up a spot for Klimchuk/Shinkaruk/Jankowski/Hathaway/Pribyl/Poitier and that would be a good thing going forward.  

[jjgallow]

On 20/04/2017 at 8:22 AM, JTech780 said:

To me the glaring hole on this team, and it showed in 3 of the 4 games against Anaheim is goaltending. 

 

Sigh.   Look, we lost 4-0.  Elliot was not fantastic.     But the problem is higher up, and spread further out than goaltending.

 

That's what losing 4-0 means.

 

Goaltending:  Any contender team in the league, has A RESTED STARTER going into the playoffs, a backup they can rely on, AND at least one AHL goalie who:

1.  They trust

2.  They've given NHL experience to.

 

We don't have that, because:

1.  We're not a contender

2.  We RODE ELLIOT HARD to get into the playoffs  (as far as I'm concerned, why bother making the playoffs if that's your strategy?)

3.  Had we developed anyone else at the NHL level, we never would have made the playoffs (again, why bother making the playoffs then?)

 

And, then we Blame the goalie who Got us In, who we rode Way too hard, when it doesn't work.

 

There's so much ground to cover.   But it would be real cute of us if we learned from our mistakes.

 

"Fire the coach and get new goalies" got us to a 4-0 playoff embarasment.

 

Possibly, that's not the solution.

[jjgallow]

On 20/04/2017 at 9:24 AM, CastleMania said:

Gaudreau was awful this season in general. I really felt like he under produced and was a liability as much as he was a threat. I don't know what you do with him, but if he has another season like this one I think you look to move him.

 

IMHO it's worse than that:  He was specifically aweful in the playoffs.  Which is strike two for him, in terms of NHL playoff series.

 

It was suggested on here at the start of the season that we trade him.  His value was sky high.  As a fan favourite, of course it didn't happen.

 

But we should have, if this organisation was as serious about the playoff  success as they are about a new arena.    I thought he was good in the regular season, but Look....

 

He's Too small for the playoffs.  He is Not effective in Playoff hockey.   And that's JUST the first round.   If we Ever got past the first round with him, he would Completely disappear in the 2nd round, etc.   He's not just short, he's Small.  There is nothing to the guy.   Not the case with St. Louis, or T. Fleury.  He just gets rubbed out.

 

He is less valuable now than he was at the start of the season, but he could still fetch a handsome sum.   Yes, like ThePeople said, you could get a Carey Price or similar for him.

 

If we want to be a contender, that will basically have to happen.   Or, Some Serious draft picks, or Elite prospects.  He would be fantastic on some other team just hoping to Make the playoffs.  We shouldn't Be that team.

 

The annoying part about all this, is that...the organisation already knows all this.  I'm not even sure a deep playoff run is even in their business plan.   Because  everything they do is aimed at being Just good enough to have a shot at the playoffs.   I see no road map that goes further.

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Likely the first thing to impact our mini-makeover this summer will be the expansion draft.  Unless Vegas takes a prospect like Kulak all the rest are vets that we can afford to lose and might help clearing a contract.  If it's one of Bouma, Stajan or Brouwer it'll open up a spot for Klimchuk/Shinkaruk/Jankowski/Hathaway/Pribyl/Poitier and that would be a good thing going forward.  

We won't know the effects of the expansion draft until it actually happens. In real terms if expansion wasn't happening we still should and need to shed Stajan and Bouma IMO. I view this offseason not as any "mini-makeover" but very key for this franchise moving into consistent contender status. The key considerations BT will have is 2 goaltenders, 4 defensemen and possibly as many as 4 forwards to be replaced. Lots of decisions to be taken into consideration.

[MAC331]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Sigh.   Look, we lost 4-0.  Elliot was not fantastic.     But the problem is higher up, and spread further out than goaltending.

 

That's what losing 4-0 means.

 

Goaltending:  Any contender team in the league, has A RESTED STARTER going into the playoffs, a backup they can rely on, AND at least one AHL goalie who:

1.  They trust

2.  They've given NHL experience to.

 

We don't have that, because:

1.  We're not a contender

2.  We RODE ELLIOT HARD to get into the playoffs  (as far as I'm concerned, why bother making the playoffs if that's your strategy?)

3.  Had we developed anyone else at the NHL level, we never would have made the playoffs (again, why bother making the playoffs then?)

 

And, then we Blame the goalie who Got us In, who we rode Way too hard, when it doesn't work.

 

There's so much ground to cover.   But it would be real cute of us if we learned from our mistakes.

 

"Fire the coach and get new goalies" got us to a 4-0 playoff embarasment.

 

Possibly, that's not the solution.

I really feel for you if you were embarrassed by this team's efforts in the ANA series. Making the playoffs no matter how you have to get there should always be a team's focus otherwise why play at all. If you cannot see the overall progress made by this team then I dare say you don't know as much about hockey as you try to let on.

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Making the playoffs no matter how you have to get there should always be a team's focus otherwise why play at all. 

 

That is Absolutely, completely wrong, in every way.  And your subsequent insults, which I will ignore, are totally inappropriate.

 

Your statement is Only true at the level of the Coach and players, IF you ALSO ignore player health and safety.

 

It is not true, as a statement on its own, at any level, for any individual.  And at the GM level or above, it is the kiss of death.

[MAC331]

28 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

That is Absolutely, completely wrong, in every way.  And your subsequent insults, which I will ignore, are totally inappropriate.

 

Your statement is Only true at the level of the Coach and players, IF you ALSO ignore player health and safety.

 

It is not true, as a statement on its own, at any level, for any individual.  And at the GM level or above, it is the kiss of death.

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you have never been a competitive athlete.

[Flyerfan52]

13 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I thought we were bargaining? for fun.

I'm not raping anyone.

If I have Gaudreau, and want Schenn, Konecny  and Rubtzov, what's my add?

In your opinion, for fun dammit! lol

Rasmus Andersson & a 1st rounder in 2018 (Flames are already missing their 2nd & 3rd in 2017 so won't want to wait for round 4).

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Sigh.   Look, we lost 4-0.  Elliot was not fantastic.     But the problem is higher up, and spread further out than goaltending.

 

That's what losing 4-0 means.

 

Goaltending:  Any contender team in the league, has A RESTED STARTER going into the playoffs, a backup they can rely on, AND at least one AHL goalie who:

1.  They trust

2.  They've given NHL experience to.

 

We don't have that, because:

1.  We're not a contender

2.  We RODE ELLIOT HARD to get into the playoffs  (as far as I'm concerned, why bother making the playoffs if that's your strategy?)

3.  Had we developed anyone else at the NHL level, we never would have made the playoffs (again, why bother making the playoffs then?)

 

And, then we Blame the goalie who Got us In, who we rode Way too hard, when it doesn't work.

 

There's so much ground to cover.   But it would be real cute of us if we learned from our mistakes.

 

"Fire the coach and get new goalies" got us to a 4-0 playoff embarasment.

 

Possibly, that's not the solution.

JJ you cant really be serioues.

 

You need to only look up the highway to see a goalie that was rode way harder then elliott and is still performing to a good standard into the playoffs.Edmonton did not have a rested started, does not really have a back up they can rely on and honestly brossoit from everything I hear on sports radio up here in edmonton isent exactly trusted yet. I only say this because plenty of people do think edmonton is a contender this year. Also im curious what other teams you view as contenders that have all this goal tending depth? Who does san jose have after martin jones? I know their Ahl goalie was giving goalie of the year nods down in the AAA, but that doesnt mean anything at the NHL level.

 

Elliot deserves some of the blame for this playoff series loss, just as GG deserves some of the blame for not changing things up sooner then later. Blaming someone or critiquing someone for the playoff loss is how a team grows and gets better, its not the end of the world.

[Flyerfan52]

35 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

JJ you cant really be serioues.

 

You need to only look up the highway to see a goalie that was rode way harder then elliott and is still performing to a good standard into the playoffs.Edmonton did not have a rested started, does not really have a back up they can rely on and honestly brossoit from everything I hear on sports radio up here in edmonton isent exactly trusted yet. I only say this because plenty of people do think edmonton is a contender this year. Also im curious what other teams you view as contenders that have all this goal tending depth? Who does san jose have after martin jones? I know their Ahl goalie was giving goalie of the year nods down in the AAA, but that doesnt mean anything at the NHL level.

 

Elliot deserves some of the blame for this playoff series loss, just as GG deserves some of the blame for not changing things up sooner then later. Blaming someone or critiquing someone for the playoff loss is how a team grows and gets better, its not the end of the world.

Well said.

 

BTW, jj

Price had 62 games this year even though he has a dang good backup.

Lundqvist had 57 & has a good backup.

Neither was rested even after playoffs were confirmed.

[travel_dude]

56 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

JJ you cant really be serioues.

 

You need to only look up the highway to see a goalie that was rode way harder then elliott and is still performing to a good standard into the playoffs.Edmonton did not have a rested started, does not really have a back up they can rely on and honestly brossoit from everything I hear on sports radio up here in edmonton isent exactly trusted yet. I only say this because plenty of people do think edmonton is a contender this year. Also im curious what other teams you view as contenders that have all this goal tending depth? Who does san jose have after martin jones? I know their Ahl goalie was giving goalie of the year nods down in the AAA, but that doesnt mean anything at the NHL level.

 

Elliot deserves some of the blame for this playoff series loss, just as GG deserves some of the blame for not changing things up sooner then later. Blaming someone or critiquing someone for the playoff loss is how a team grows and gets better, its not the end of the world.

 

I think that part of the problem was they decided it was Elliott or bust.  There was no plan B in case he struggled.  That's fine for a bona fide starter, but Elliott is a 1a/1b type.

No, I don't think resting him for a game or two would have mattered.  As soon as CJ showed his warts, they should have addressed it.  I think it's possible that we could have made a trade for a backup at TDL.  Or we could have brought up Gillies/Rittich to give them NHL games.  Once Elliott's streak ended, he was just ok.  

 

Elliott was good enough in game 1, was ok in game 2 except for the iffy goals.  After that he was done.  By that point, there was no other option.  CJ was not trusted, and for good reason.  

[MAC331]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think that part of the problem was they decided it was Elliott or bust.  There was no plan B in case he struggled.  That's fine for a bona fide starter, but Elliott is a 1a/1b type.

No, I don't think resting him for a game or two would have mattered.  As soon as CJ showed his warts, they should have addressed it.  I think it's possible that we could have made a trade for a backup at TDL.  Or we could have brought up Gillies/Rittich to give them NHL games.  Once Elliott's streak ended, he was just ok.  

 

Elliott was good enough in game 1, was ok in game 2 except for the iffy goals.  After that he was done.  By that point, there was no other option.  CJ was not trusted, and for good reason.  

Come on, a 1a / 1b starter ? what does that even mean ? Elliott was our starter and CJ was our back up GG rode the hot goaltender and the one the team had the most confidence in closing out the season. We should also remember CJ got injured.

[Flyerfan52]

17 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I thought we were bargaining? for fun.

I'm not raping anyone.

If I have Gaudreau, and want Schenn, Konecny  and Rubtzov, what's my add?

In your opinion, for fun dammit! lol

Just for fun how about a swap of 2/3s of the top line. A blockbuster.

To Flyers:

Gaudreau (6.75 x 5)
Manahan (6.375 x 6)

Bouma (2.2 x 1) or Stajan (3.125 x 1) to make the cap work for both.

 

To Flames:

Giroux (8.275 x 5)

Voracek (8.275 x 6)

2017 2nd & 3rd rounders to make up age difference.

 

Flames gain toughness & experience. Flyers get younger forwards to meet the timeline of the young D prospect.

Gaudreau & Monahan get Simmonds to ride shotgun. Giroux & Voracek with Frolik looks good but they could be real good with Tkachuk. & Bennett gets a role model.

 

 

[travel_dude]

43 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Come on, a 1a / 1b starter ? what does that even mean ? Elliott was our starter and CJ was our back up GG rode the hot goaltender and the one the team had the most confidence in closing out the season. We should also remember CJ got injured.

 

Nobody was the #1 guy until they went with Elliott in January/February.

1a/1b simply means you have two good enough to play 40 each.  He was that in STL.  

CJ lost the net almost entirely in December/January due his miserable GAA. 

[conundrumed]

31 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Just for fun how about a swap of 2/3s of the top line. A blockbuster.

To Flyers:

Gaudreau (6.75 x 5)
Manahan (6.375 x 6)

Bouma (2.2 x 1) or Stajan (3.125 x 1) to make the cap work for both.

 

To Flames:

Giroux (8.275 x 5)

Voracek (8.275 x 6)

2017 2nd & 3rd rounders to make up age difference.

 

Flames gain toughness & experience. Flyers get younger forwards to meet the timeline of the young D prospect.

Gaudreau & Monahan get Simmonds to ride shotgun. Giroux & Voracek with Frolik looks good but they could be real good with Tkachuk. & Bennett gets a role model.

 

 

Ahhhhh...not my Mony!!

But a harder game at F IS exactly what I'd like to see. That's what I love in Konecny's game. You don't have to be big, you have to play big and gritty.

With Bennett and Tkachuk coming along in that style I'd like to see 2 more wingers in that mold.

[Flyerfan52]

39 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Ahhhhh...not my Mony!!

But a harder game at F IS exactly what I'd like to see. That's what I love in Konecny's game. You don't have to be big, you have to play big and gritty.

With Bennett and Tkachuk coming along in that style I'd like to see 2 more wingers in that mold.

But what are you willing to offer for them? Teams don't give those away (especially those on ELCs so cost sontrolled for years).

Picks or prospects that might turn into 1 aren't worth trading the 1 you already have so it means only somebody filling a bigger need would even get that GMs attention.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nobody was the #1 guy until they went with Elliott in January/February.

1a/1b simply means you have two good enough to play 40 each.  He was that in STL.  

CJ lost the net almost entirely in December/January due his miserable GAA. 

Get real Elliott was brought in here to be our starter, he fumbled the ball out of the gate and we had a good back up who stepped in and did well for awhile. Our starter Elliott regained the net and showed why he was brought in as our starter.

[Flyerfan52]

13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Get real Elliott was brought in here to be our starter, he fumbled the ball out of the gate and we had a good back up who stepped in and did well for awhile. Our starter Elliott regained the net and showed why he was brought in as our starter.

But neither goalie this year showed he should be back as starter next season. Backup maybe depending on the ask.

There are a lot of good goalies available so I don't think we should tie ourselves to either of the 2 that ran hot/cold this season. Fear of that is probably why both had short contracts.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

But what are you willing to offer for them? Teams don't give those away (especially those on ELCs so cost sontrolled for years).

Picks or prospects that might turn into 1 aren't worth trading the 1 you already have so it means only somebody filling a bigger need would even get that GMs attention.

I think I'm good with you're offer I +1'd you on.

I'm not married to keeping JH at all, he's pretty much a perimeter player, and I don't like that.

You load me up on F's like that, I'd do it.

But what is up with Rubtsov? Is he injured? I can't seem to find his current status and he doesn't appear to be playing with Chicoutimi in the playoffs.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Get real Elliott was brought in here to be our starter, he fumbled the ball out of the gate and we had a good back up who stepped in and did well for awhile. Our starter Elliott regained the net and showed why he was brought in as our starter.

 

 

Simmer down there bud.  You don't spend $1.7m on a backup, unless that guy showed he can play 1/2 a season.  The only reason CJ didn't get as many games as Elliott was his horrendous December and January.  That is the point of the season where Gully declared Ellott to be the #1 guy.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Price had 62 games this year even though he has a dang good backup.

Lundqvist had 57 & has a good backup.

Neither was rested even after playoffs were confirmed.

 

And neither have ever won the cup, despite the teams they play for.  Lindqvist made it to the finals  once and got smoked.

 

Also, Price missed an entire season last year, so that's a different situation.   

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Elliot deserves some of the blame for this playoff series loss, just as GG deserves some of the blame for not changing things up sooner then later. Blaming someone or critiquing someone for the playoff loss is how a team grows and gets better, its not the end of the world.

 

Is there any possible scenario in this world, in any given season, where we don't just blame the goalie and the coach?  The two more surefire mistakes made in hockey?  Also the same mistakes that got us here?

[Carty]

12 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Is there any possible scenario in this world, in any given season, where we don't just blame the goalie and the coach?

 

Sure...   One where we have a goalie that doesn't develop a habit of having nuclear meltdowns, and one where a coach does not make critical mistakes that are obvious even to some of the posters here...