So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[Zatch]

If Johnny was traded, could Bennett convert to a LW/RW for Monahan?

 

I know Bennett is a 'natural' centre, but if I recall correctly he also played pretty decent on the wings as well.    

Bennett - Monahan - Ferland? 

 

The biggest thing in a Gaudreau trade would probably be acquiring a top line player in return, or maybe a goaltender if Elliot/Johnson aren't resigned? 

[MAC331]

35 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Don't really know Brett Pesce so its hard to comment(hey, maybe he's the next Pronger?), but this kind of trade, a la Edmonton Oilers' Hall trade is giving up a huge piece of the offence for a D when D is a relative strength of the Flames, especially with multiple new guys on the cusp in the next year or two.  That would include Kulak/Culkin, Andersson, Kylington and Hickey, much less Morrison, Fox, Falkowski, Ollas-Matsson and others further down.  

 

I don't mind considering trading Gaudreau but probably for a grittier/tougher/larger scoring machine, like a Vorachek, Giroux or Simmonds off of Philadelphia.  We'd give up on age on all those deals but get an arguably better-rounded player suited to playoffs.  We've got some other small phenoms coming up e.g. Mangiapanne and Phillips so we might be able to replace Gaudreau's production in a year or two plus add whomever we got in a potential trade.  Trading younger would also work, might even be better, but I'd have to think on who that might be....

I think we already have Gaudreau's replacement in Tkachuk. Pesce will be a good one, better than Stone and still cheap for 2 years and who knows what we get with a #1 pick higher up. If we could pull this off trading Gaudreau I would go after TJ Oshie for a line of Tkachuk, Monahan and Oshie.

[CastleMania]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

The Flames could not compete with Anaheim's toughness, speed nor their top players.  Perry, Kesler, Gibson, overall D, role players (e.g. Silfverberg) and Getzlaf were clearly better than the comparable Flames.  Although some of that is inexperience on the part of the Flames, some of that is they are just better.  I think we can get better in all those areas as Monahan, Tkachuk, Bennett, Gillies/? and Anderson/Kulak/etc mature and get better while the Ducks are pretty much at their peak and declining soon.

 

Immediate changes that need to be made prior to our 2017-18 mid-Summer look include the following:

 

UFA: Versteeg(re-sign), Wideman(drop), Engelland(drop), Stone(re-sign), Elliot(drop), Johnson(drop), Smid(drop), Bollig(drop), Kostka(drop)

 

RFA: Bennett(re-sign), Lazar(re-sign), Ferland(re-sign), Chiasson(release), Gillies(re-sign), Rittich(re-sign), Morrison(re-sign), Vey(release), Hathaway(re-sign), Culkin(release), Kulak(re-sign), Wotherspoon(release)

 

Expansion Draft: Protect 1G=?Bishop-3D=Giordano, DHamilton, TJBrodie-7F=Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland, Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Lazar; Expose 1G=-McCollum-1D=Bartkowski-2F=Brouwer, Stajan, Bouma

 

Trades post-Expansion Draft(Any reasonable offer/picks): Brouwer, Stajan, Bouma, Bartkowski, McCollum

Trades Anytime: FHamilton, Poirier, Pollock, Smith, Carroll, McDonald, Kanzig

 

Mega-Trade Consideration(Return in-Kind(e.g. Nieuwendyk-Iginla)): potentially any of Gaudreau, Backlund, Bennett, Giordano and Brodie to change the mix on the team.  Probably max of one of these, if any.

 

UFA Signings: BenBishop-G(4yrs,$6mm), TJOshie-RW(5yrs,$5.5-$6.5mm), MStone-D(4yrs,$4mm), KVersteeg-LW,RW(4yrs,$3.5mm)

Wait, are you saying we don't protect Tkachuk? Or is there some reason we don't have to?

[MAC331]

30 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Gaudreau for Pesce would be a horrible trade for the Flames. I get it, Gaudreau was terrible in the playoffs but you don't trade a top line player for a decent but not great top 4 blueliner. I don't think Pesce will ever be a top line blueliner and the Flames could not replace the scoring they will lose without Gaudreau.

 

I'm all for discussing the possibility of moving Gaudreau but it would have to be for another scorer, not a dman. I don't think the Flames can afford to lose that offence both in the short and long term. 

I wouldn't get to wrapped up with thinking this is Pesce for Gaudreau, it would be what else comes our way, plus we free up the money for another scorer like Oshie possibly. I think Pesce is as good or better than what Stone offers playing with Brodie.

[MAC331]

35 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

The one thing that needs to be addressed before any of the on ice personnel is what they are doing with Treliving. I think Treliving deserves to be back 100%.

I get worried that Burke is looking at a guy like Dean Lombardi who is available and builds teams similar to the way Burke does. Lombardi did build a Stanley Cup winner, but he wasn't able to adjust to the way NHL has trended the last few years and he also gave out some horrendous contracts. I just don't see Burke as a patient guy and he might want to change the direction of this team.

 

As far as trading Gaudreau, I get the idea and in some ways it makes sense, but Gaudreau controls so much of our offense and guys like Monahan rely on Gaudreau to create opportunities for him, I wonder where that offense and creativity is going to come from.

I don't know that BT has to fear for his job, BB was the one that brought him in and always raves about the job he is doing. I think even BB has seen the light that has expired in LA. You will always need some size and truculence but the skill factor has to way in if you want goals.

I think Tkachuk illustrated a very creative passing game this season.

[MAC331]

17 minutes ago, Zatch said:

If Johnny was traded, could Bennett convert to a LW/RW for Monahan?

 

I know Bennett is a 'natural' centre, but if I recall correctly he also played pretty decent on the wings as well.    

Bennett - Monahan - Ferland? 

 

The biggest thing in a Gaudreau trade would probably be acquiring a top line player in return, or maybe a goaltender if Elliot/Johnson aren't resigned? 

I think a lot will depend on whether Brouwer is still a Flame come next season and a few other situations under discussion here. If they could land Oshie for the top line RW you could use a line like Ferland, Bennett, Lazar.

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't know that BT has to fear for his job, BB was the one that brought him in and always raves about the job he is doing. I think even BB has seen the light that has expired in LA. You will always need some size and truculence but the skill factor has to way in if you want goals.

I think Tkachuk illustrated a very creative passing game this season.

 

Tkachuk did show a lot of skill and passing ability, but he can't carry the puck. Every time he gets the puck in the defensive or neutral zones he is looking to pass the puck to someone else who can carry the puck into the offensive, because he doesn't have the speed to do so.

[MAC331]

32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If I move Gaudreau, then it would be for Carey Price.

Now we are talking LOL

[Flyerfan52]

1 player I would really go hard after via the trade route is Tom Wilson in Washington. But he'd be costly in assets (probably Bennett +) & to re-sign in 1 year. A hard nose that can play 1st line is ideal for me. There's no way the Flyers are trading Wayne Simmonds but I could see Wilson turn into his equal.

[MAC331]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

Tkachuk did show a lot of skill and passing ability, but he can't carry the puck. Every time he gets the puck in the defensive or neutral zones he is looking to pass the puck to someone else who can carry the puck into the offensive, because he doesn't have the speed to do so.

Not sure I see anything wrong with that plus I saw Monahan being much better carrying the puck this season. I have to wonder if there are any stats on Gaudreau entering the O zone successfully vs coughing up the puck as he attempted.

[Flyerfan52]

43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If I move Gaudreau, then it would be for Carey Price.

For me I'd consider Shea Weber.

[MAC331]

Just now, Flyerfan52 said:

1 player I would really go hard after via the trade route is Tom Wilson in Washington. But he'd be costly in assets (probably Bennett +) & to re-sign in 1 year. A hard nose that can play 1st line is ideal for me. There's no way the Flyers are trading Wayne Simmonds but I could see Wilson turn into his equal.

Would love to see Wilson as a Flame but I wouldn't give up on Bennett. How about Brodie for him ?

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I wouldn't get to wrapped up with thinking this is Pesce for Gaudreau, it would be what else comes our way, plus we free up the money for another scorer like Oshie possibly. I think Pesce is as good or better than what Stone offers playing with Brodie.

 

Unless you are in cap problems, which Flames are not, I don't agree with this line of thinking.

 

When you have top end talent you should trade it for top end talent, not auxiliary pieces, other wise this if the Phaneuf trade all over again. I don't agree with the idea of losting a trade in the hopes that a corresponding move can make you better. Not the way you should build a team unless, like I mentioned you need to move someone for cap reasons. 

 

I know you like Pesce so I get what you are trying to do its just not a good move for Gaudreau. Pesce does not fill a large enough immediate need, nor does he have enough of a high end upside to justify the Flames moving a high end talent like Gaudreau. Sure he is probably better than Stone but what if the Flames can't get Oshie? Gaudreau -Stone is significantly better than Pesce and a draft pick. 

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Would love to see Wilson as a Flame but I wouldn't give up on Bennett. How about Brodie for him ?

 

You would trade a top 3 blueliner for a 3rd line RW?

 

Time to slow down the trade proposals Mac . I know the offseason is a fun time for us all but boy are we getting carried away here this morning.... 

[phoenix66]

12 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

For me I'd consider Shea Weber.

Im in the camp as well that any trade for Johnny has to be also for a top LW

 

Gaudreau, Brouwer, Stajan to NJ for Hall and a Pick.. there you go BT , get it done:)

[MAC331]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

Unless you are in cap problems, which Flames are not, I don't agree with this line of thinking.

 

When you have top end talent you should trade it for top end talent, not auxiliary pieces, other wise this if the Phaneuf trade all over again. I don't agree with the idea of losting a trade in the hopes that a corresponding move can make you better. Not the way you should build a team unless, like I mentioned you need to move someone for cap reasons. 

 

I know you like Pesce so I get what you are trying to do its just not a good move for Gaudreau. Pesce does not fill a large enough immediate need, nor does he have enough of a high end upside to justify the Flames moving a high end talent like Gaudreau. Sure he is probably better than Stone but what if the Flames can't get Oshie? Gaudreau -Stone is significantly better than Pesce and a draft pick. 

I agree with your last sentence and first things first BT would need to secure an off setting talent for our top line RW. A fast improving Tkachuk with Monahan and Oshie along with Pesce plus better than Gaudreau and Stone.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

You would trade a top 3 blueliner for a 3rd line RW?

 

Time to slow down the trade proposals Mac . I know the offseason is a fun time for us all but boy are we getting carried away here this morning.... 

LOL I know, fun eh !!! Wilson would provide some of the toughness we are going to need and unless Brodie recovers to how he used to play I have seen enough to consider trading him.

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

Im in the camp as well that any trade for Johnny has to be also for a top LW

 

Gaudreau, Brouwer, Stajan to NJ for Hall and a Pick.. there you go BT , get it done:)

Go for Schneider

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Go for Schneider

instead of?. or as well as?    if its instead, we can get arguably just as good a goalie on UFA or cheaper.. if its as well as, the price just went way up..   hes probabaly there for life 

[cccsberg]

58 minutes ago, CastleMania said:

Wait, are you saying we don't protect Tkachuk? Or is there some reason we don't have to?

Don't have to since he only has 1 year

[CastleMania]

Just now, cccsberg said:

Don't have to since he only has 1 year

Thanks. I honestly have paid zero attention to the expansion draft. It irritates and I don't like that it's happening. So my approach has been to stick my head in a hole and pretend it's not happening.

[cccsberg]

4 minutes ago, CastleMania said:

Thanks. I honestly have paid zero attention to the expansion draft. It irritates and I don't like that it's happening. So my approach has been to stick my head in a hole and pretend it's not happening.

We are well-positioned for the expansion draft.  Almost every single exposed player is expendable, as long as we don't sign a bunch of guys prior to it.  Stajan, Brouwer, Bouma, Bartkowski and McCollum are the only vets exposed, plus a few prospects like Poirier..  The way it is going The expansion draft is probably going to make us stronger by moving out a lower end vet and opening up a spot for a prospect.

[MAC331]

25 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

instead of?. or as well as?    if its instead, we can get arguably just as good a goalie on UFA or cheaper.. if its as well as, the price just went way up..   hes probabaly there for life 

I don't think we need Hall here but Schneider and their 1st would do it for me.

[CastleMania]

21 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

We are well-positioned for the expansion draft.  Almost every single exposed player is expendable, as long as we don't sign a bunch of guys prior to it.  Stajan, Brouwer, Bouma, Bartkowski and McCollum are the only vets exposed, plus a few prospects like Poirier..  The way it is going The expansion draft is probably going to make us stronger by moving out a lower end vet and opening up a spot for a prospect.

That's good news. I'm more upset about another southern expansion team than the prospect of losing players. But if it helps us I won't complain as much.

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think we need Hall here but Schneider and their 1st would do it for me.

If you trade Johnny you do..  we have nobody in the system who replaces what he brings. we dont have to do an Edmonton deal and trade from a massive strength to fill a weakness..  Johnny is a Superstar, we need a superstar..we're not trading an expiring contract or a rental here .. we get a price or he stays

This is why I think Hall makes a lot of sense: there are a couple of assumptions here but I feel they are accurate 

1)both want out -- Johnny wants to play in the east , Hall wants to play for a winner

2) both bring what the other does and what the other does not .. Johnny sells tickets and is more suited for Eastern play, Hall would fit right in on the top line , and has the size to play in the western playoffs

3) same salary range

4)Hall was super ticked to be traded , and I'm NJ wasnt a fave choice.. Johnny would be motivated to be happy near family 

5) Hall grew up a Flames fan.. would be overjoyed to be here , and would stick it to EDM every chance he got

 

In short , both teams win..and get happy players with an upgrade. but if you trade Johnny , you have to replace Johnny..we dont have the luxury.

you can get a goalie as good if not better than Schneider via UFA or cheaper trade (Bishop, Smith, Fleury, Darling, etc..) all will not require you to give up a Johnny