So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[CastleMania]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

On our D,

 

One player to keep an eye on is Giordano.  I remember when we re-signed him to his current deal, most fans agreed there was about 3-years of elite game remaining in the tank.  Well, he's spent 2 of them now.  If we want to avoid Giordano's contract burdening us in his final couple years, then this might be the off-season to unload him for something good.  I know nobody likes to talk about the realities of aging but look at Corey Perry for example.  He was a former league MVP but now an $8.625-mil 3rd liner for another 4-years.

I was talking about this with my friend during games 3 and 4, and I think Gio has lost a step. He looked good on the ice and he can still skate with the best of them--when he has to. But he's certainly not dominating the game like he was a couple years ago. I'm very scared his contract is going to be an albatross very soon. If we can get a good return for him I'd be completely open to shopping him.

 

And to those this will insult, I was the biggest Iginla proponent on the board and hardest to resist trading him. Lesson learned. It would have been better for the team and Iginla if the trade had happened two years earlier.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, CastleMania said:

I was talking about this with my friend during games 3 and 4, and I think Gio has lost a step. He looked good on the ice and he can still skate with the best of them--when he has to. But he's certainly not dominating the game like he was a couple years ago. I'm very scared his contract is going to be an albatross very soon. If we can get a good return for him I'd be completely open to shopping him.

 

And to those this will insult, I was the biggest Iginla proponent on the board and hardest to resist trading him. Lesson learned. It would have been better for the team and Iginla if the trade had happened two years earlier.

 

Colorado is hungry for a Dman and is dangling Duchene and Landeskog.  Worth a look for sure.  I'm not sure if Mackinnon is available but the Flames really need a RHS C for those right side faceoffs instead of using Brouwer in those situations.  Mackinnon would cost Giordano+ i would safely assume.

 

But ya, if we don't trade Giordano soon, then he won't be trade able.

[MAC331]

40 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

For me the off-season game plan is as follows:

 

1.Re-sign Treliving.

2.Look for a goalie prior to the expansion draft.

3.Entry Draft.

4.Free agency, if we can't trade for a goalie by then, or if they feel there are better options on the free agent market sign a goalie.

5.Re-sign our guys.

 

I think we need to know what a goalie is going to cost us before we can budget the rest of the roster.

I think you right on with your last comment, get your goalie and go from there. Honestly I don't expect to much change. I would like to see BT rid us of Stajan, Bouma and Chiasson. If we still have Brouwer I would re-sign Versteeg, they are good friends and bring a lot to this team. On defense the need to determine if it is time for an injection of youth vs bringing back Stone and Engelland. I would like to see TJ Oshie join us because he could take some of the opposition's concentration off of Gaudreau.

[cccsberg]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Colorado is hungry for a Dman and is dangling Duchene and Landeskog.  Worth a look for sure.  I'm not sure if Mackinnon is available but the Flames really need a RHS C for those right side faceoffs instead of using Brouwer in those situations.  Mackinnon would cost Giordano+ i would safely assume.

 

But ya, if we don't trade Giordano soon, then he won't be trade able.

Agree with  a lot of the views here on potential major trades.  Unfortunately I don't think our management is up to it, rather wanting to be "loyal" and make a few tweaks... and, unfortunately disregarding a lot of potentially very good prospects.  Personally I believe the only guy we have that has a big growing upside is Tkahuk, and to a lessor extent Bennett.  Therefore I'm thinking the only way to make a big jump in performance is bringing in new guys and letting them grow, like Pittsburg was forced to do last year.  If we continue next year the same theme of past-prime Bartkowski, Vey, Bouma, Stajan, Engelland, Chiasson, Versteeg(OK, he was good), Elliot, Johnson, and etc instead of perhaps Jankowski, Poirier, Klimchuk, Mangiapanne, Andersson, Kylington, Hickey, Gillies, Rittich and etc I'm not too hopeful of significant improvement over what we got this year.  That's not bad, but frankly, "not bad" isn't what I'm really hoping for.

[MAC331]

55 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

For me the off-season game plan is as follows:

 

1.Re-sign Treliving.

2.Look for a goalie prior to the expansion draft.

3.Entry Draft.

4.Free agency, if we can't trade for a goalie by then, or if they feel there are better options on the free agent market sign a goalie.

5.Re-sign our guys.

 

I think we need to know what a goalie is going to cost us before we can budget the rest of the roster.

You know a goalie that might be available but no one is mentioning is Robin Lehner BUF heading into his RFA year. Changes are happening in BUF as we speak.

[cross16]

Still don't believe you are selling "high" on Gio. Everyone in the league sees the contract so if those are the concerns people on a message board have don't you think people are the league will ask the same questions?

 

Personally, I thought Gio was fantastic in the playoffs and I do not agree he is losing step. I think the points are down only based on the transition out of a system that really catered to dmen and dmen putting up points, but not is more of a team oriented system and he was not the number 1 PP option this year. 6 less goals and 5 less points this year than last year on the PP and that really closes the gap on his numbers form last year to this year. However, I thought his impact on the game in other ways was greater this year than last. Keep in mind too, Hamilton and Giordano grade out as one of THEE best pairings in the NHL.  As with any player for the right price you for sure make a move but that price better be darn high on Gio and i'm very skeptical it will be. Still believe there is more value in keeping him and I think we've got more than 1 or 2 more years of this calibre of player before we get concerned. 

 

personally I think the Flames D has become a strength moving forward, provided you get Stone under contract, so i'd be relucatnat to make alot of changes. I think they were an upper echelon group this and did a good job of limiting the Ducks in the series. lack of goal scoring and goaltending should be your focus, not the D IMO. D had very little to do with losing that series. 

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Agree with  a lot of the views here on potential major trades.  Unfortunately I don't think our management is up to it, rather wanting to be "loyal" and make a few tweaks... and, unfortunately disregarding a lot of potentially very good prospects.  Personally I believe the only guy we have that has a big growing upside is Tkahuk, and to a lessor extent Bennett.  Therefore I'm thinking the only way to make a big jump in performance is bringing in new guys and letting them grow, like Pittsburg was forced to do last year.  If we continue next year the same theme of past-prime Bartkowski, Vey, Bouma, Stajan, Engelland, Chiasson, Versteeg(OK, he was good), Elliot, Johnson, and etc instead of perhaps Jankowski, Poirier, Klimchuk, Mangiapanne, Andersson, Kylington, Hickey, Gillies, Rittich and etc I'm not too hopeful of significant improvement over what we got this year.  That's not bad, but frankly, "not bad" isn't what I'm really hoping for.

 

I know what you mean.  I think Tkachuk could continue to push higher but Bennett is a bit lost.  I really hope we don't go the veteran route either as the league is proving increasingly more that investing in youth is the way to go.  Jankowski made a statement in the AHL this season.  Make room for him and give him a legitimate chance to make the team out of camp.  

 

 

[cccsberg]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Still don't believe you are selling "high" on Gio. Everyone in the league sees the contract so if those are the concerns people on a message board have don't you think people are the league will ask the same questions?

 

Personally, I thought Gio was fantastic in the playoffs and I do not agree he is losing step. I think the points are down only based on the transition out of a system that really catered to dmen and dmen putting up points, but not is more of a team oriented system and he was not the number 1 PP option this year. 6 less goals and 5 less points this year than last year on the PP and that really closes the gap on his numbers form last year to this year. However, I thought his impact on the game in other ways was greater this year than last. Keep in mind too, Hamilton and Giordano grade out as one of THEE best pairings in the NHL.  As with any player for the right price you for sure make a move but that price better be darn high on Gio and i'm very skeptical it will be. Still believe there is more value in keeping him and I think we've got more than 1 or 2 more years of this calibre of player before we get concerned. 

 

personally I think the Flames D has become a strength moving forward, provided you get Stone under contract, so i'd be relucatnat to make alot of changes. I think they were an upper echelon group this and did a good job of limiting the Ducks in the series. lack of goal scoring and goaltending should be your focus, not the D IMO. D had very little to do with losing that series. 

Yes I agree Cross.  I can't recall any Anaheim goal where we're looking back and saying, "yeah, terrible D coverage".  They had some great shots, some lucky bounces and some less-the-stellar Flames goaltending for offence.  We've got a solid top4 D (w?Stone) plus lower level options arriving imminently.  Focus elsewhere.

[CastleMania]

1 minute ago, cccsberg said:

Therefore I'm thinking the only way to make a big jump in performance is bringing in new guys and letting them grow, like Pittsburg was forced to do last year.  

Good news is I think we're a good goalie and a little experience away from being a fairly competitive team.

[CastleMania]

1 minute ago, cccsberg said:

Yes I agree Cross.  I can't recall any Anaheim goal where we're looking back and saying, "yeah, terrible D coverage".  They had some great shots, some lucky bounces and some less-the-stellar Flames goaltending for offence.  We've got a solid top4 D (w?Stone) plus lower level options arriving imminently.  Focus elsewhere.

Depends on whether we are a contender in the next two years or not. If we are then don't trade him, if we aren't then I think you look at it.

[MAC331]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

I know what you mean.  I think Tkachuk could continue to push higher but Bennett is a bit lost.  I really hope we don't go the veteran route either as the league is proving increasingly more that investing in youth is the way to go.  Jankowski made a statement in the AHL this season.  Make room for him and give him a legitimate chance to make the team out of camp.  

 

 

I don't think you can say Bennett is lost any longer. I witnessed a much different player this past month and thought he was a force in this playoff. I would say he has finally arrived.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Still don't believe you are selling "high" on Gio. Everyone in the league sees the contract so if those are the concerns people on a message board have don't you think people are the league will ask the same questions?

 

Personally, I thought Gio was fantastic in the playoffs and I do not agree he is losing step. I think the points are down only based on the transition out of a system that really catered to dmen and dmen putting up points, but not is more of a team oriented system and he was not the number 1 PP option this year. 6 less goals and 5 less points this year than last year on the PP and that really closes the gap on his numbers form last year to this year. However, I thought his impact on the game in other ways was greater this year than last. Keep in mind too, Hamilton and Giordano grade out as one of THEE best pairings in the NHL.  As with any player for the right price you for sure make a move but that price better be darn high on Gio and i'm very skeptical it will be. Still believe there is more value in keeping him and I think we've got more than 1 or 2 more years of this calibre of player before we get concerned. 

 

personally I think the Flames D has become a strength moving forward, provided you get Stone under contract, so i'd be relucatnat to make alot of changes. I think they were an upper echelon group this and did a good job of limiting the Ducks in the series. lack of goal scoring and goaltending should be your focus, not the D IMO. D had very little to do with losing that series. 

 

Moving Giordano is a "lose now to gain later" move.  Of course we won't get fair value anymore for Giordano but it's about keeping a clean cap in the future.  

 

I also do think we can get Duchene for Giordano after a horrible season Duchene had.  Duchene once put up 70-points and is only 26.

[cross16]

I agree it's time to clean out the bottom 6 a little bit and get younger. I think the process has already started with the Flames acquiring Lazar but can go 1 step further. I'd like to see the Flames part with Bouma, Stajan and Chiasson at a minimum and refill with guys from the Farm. Hathaway, Klimchuk, Jankowski and Lazar can all fill those spots IMO so really no need to keep those guys around, upgrade your speed/grit with those guys. I'm fine with looking at keeping Versteeg beause he's got the pest quality in him but it needs to be a 1 year deal IMO. Don't think he should term.

 

Bartowski will stick around just on the nature that he is under contract and as a 6/7 dman you can do worse. One LH dman from the farm should be able to compete and make this team out of camp too. I don't think Gilles is ready yet so I think you still go external for that. Nothing wrong with giving Gilles more time in the A. 

[cccsberg]

Just now, CastleMania said:

Depends on whether we are a contender in the next two years or not. If we are then don't trade him, if we aren't then I think you look at it.

I think you look at it no matter what, because any trade totally depends on the return you get back, but Gio is a key piece of the team here and it'll take a monster return to seriously consider.  A team that I think could consider it is Edmonton, as they have a relatively short BIG window, before major cap issues and Gio is the type of leader/1D they still lack.  Plus, they've got some great young talent e.g. Puljujarvi that they wouldn't miss but still might develop into a star like the Iginla trade from way back when.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think you can say Bennett is lost any longer. I witnessed a much different player this past month and thought he was a force in this playoff. I would say he has finally arrived.

 

Ya but still, i think Bennett looks increasingly like he tops out as a Logan Couture type.  Tkachuk has the next "Corey Perry in his prime" to come.  Not that Bennett sucks but we're on the topic of comparing Bennett's potential to Tkachuk.

[cccsberg]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think you can say Bennett is lost any longer. I witnessed a much different player this past month and thought he was a force in this playoff. I would say he has finally arrived.

Agree the past month has been very good, but now its 6 months off and let's see how it starts up next Fall.

[CastleMania]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya but still, i think Bennett looks increasingly like he tops out as a Logan Couture type.  Tkachuk has the next "Corey Perry in his prime" to come.  Not that Bennett sucks but we're on the topic of comparing Bennett's potential to Tkachuk.

Tkachuk's composure is unreal. He never showed an ounce of emotion, whether he was spearing someone or scoring a goal. Very impressive demeanor.

 

That's not to say he had no emotion, just that he was very composed.

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 don't think Gilles is ready yet so I think you still go external for that. Nothing wrong with giving Gilles more time in the A. 

 

"Not ready" as in even as a back-up?  Most NHL starters nowadays get groomed to be a starter as a back-up first and i think that's the next progression for Gillies and it should happen as early as this next season.

[MAC331]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Ya but still, i think Bennett looks increasingly like he tops out as a Logan Couture type.  Tkachuk has the next "Corey Perry in his prime" to come.  Not that Bennett sucks but we're on the topic of comparing Bennett's potential to Tkachuk.

I would be ok with that comparison, Couture is a very good player. I also agree you put 20lbs on Tkachuk and he will be very Perry-like in his prime.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, CastleMania said:

Tkachuk's composure is unreal. He never showed an ounce of emotion, whether he was spearing someone or scoring a goal. Very impressive demeanor.

 

That's not to say he had no emotion, just that he was very composed.

 

Ya, not to say Bennett or Couture are bad players but if Tkachuk can become the next Corey Perry in his prime, that's "franchise altering" talent.  That in itself is going to get the Flames to the next level without trying that hard in any other areas.

[The_People1]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I agree it's time to clean out the bottom 6 a little bit and get younger. I think the process has already started with the Flames acquiring Lazar but can go 1 step further. I'd like to see the Flames part with Bouma, Stajan and Chiasson at a minimum and refill with guys from the Farm. Hathaway, Klimchuk, Jankowski and Lazar can all fill those spots IMO so really no need to keep those guys around, upgrade your speed/grit with those guys. I'm fine with looking at keeping Versteeg beause he's got the pest quality in him but it needs to be a 1 year deal IMO. Don't think he should term.

 

I think its really telling that in an elimination game, the coaching staff decided Stajan and Bouma are the two guys to sit it out in favour of two kids.

 

 

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I agree it's time to clean out the bottom 6 a little bit and get younger. I think the process has already started with the Flames acquiring Lazar but can go 1 step further. I'd like to see the Flames part with Bouma, Stajan and Chiasson at a minimum and refill with guys from the Farm. Hathaway, Klimchuk, Jankowski and Lazar can all fill those spots IMO so really no need to keep those guys around, upgrade your speed/grit with those guys. I'm fine with looking at keeping Versteeg beause he's got the pest quality in him but it needs to be a 1 year deal IMO. Don't think he should term.

 

Bartowski will stick around just on the nature that he is under contract and as a 6/7 dman you can do worse. One LH dman from the farm should be able to compete and make this team out of camp too. I don't think Gilles is ready yet so I think you still go external for that. Nothing wrong with giving Gilles more time in the A. 

If we could see something like this develop for next season with our forward group, I think we would be in good shape.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk

Frolik, Backlund, Brouwer

Ferland, Bennett, Lazar

Klimchuk, Jankowski, Versteeg

On Defense if we could re-sign Stone we could have some flexibility to try someone like Andersson with Brodie.

Giordano, Hamilton

Brodie , Andersson

Kulak, Stone

Bartkowski (spare)

[JTech780]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

"Not ready" as in even as a back-up?  Most NHL starters nowadays get groomed to be a starter as a back-up first and i think that's the next progression for Gillies and it should happen as early as this next season.

 

Gillies hasn't shown he can be consistent in the AHL yet, he still haunting to work on and he won't get the playing time to work on them in the NHL. If you look at a guy like Matt Murray he played at an elite level for 2 years in the AHL before getting promoted. Gillies still has yet to show that, but this year is his first year as a pro more or less.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya, not to say Bennett or Couture are bad players but if Tkachuk can become the next Corey Perry in his prime, that's "franchise altering" talent.  That in itself is going to get the Flames to the next level without trying that hard in any other areas.

We have a lot of young talent still in the brewing stages, I give us 2 years and we will have a VERY GOOD team.

[cccsberg]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

"Not ready" as in even as a back-up?  Most NHL starters nowadays get groomed to be a starter as a back-up first and i think that's the next progression for Gillies and it should happen as early as this next season.

Yes, I agree fully, and if he is not quite ready you can switch him out with Rittich.  Not bringing him up is going to make the GM think he needs a #1 goalie for many years before Gillies is ready, and I believe he could jump into that spot as early as next year, later on.  Having him just on the precipice may prevent a UFA signing for too much and too many years which would kill all the potential building in our young goalies.  And let's not forget, we've got Parsons probably coming to the AHL next year as well.