So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[Flyerfan52]

30 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Just something to think about, I'd hate to be, say, a Konecny coming in here for Gaudreau, due to the massive weight of expectation.

 

I love Konecny's game, but he's a kid, as is Provorov. That is a ton of weight in a massively spotlighted trade.

But I would counter, Provorov AND Konecny for JG and considerations.

You guys are loaded at D and upgrade Konecny,

What says you ff, let's have a trade between you and I?

All of your teams are out and all of my teams are out, let's have some fun!!

Lighten the mood, lol.

The spotlight in Philly is 1 of the brightest in US markets so that's hardly a worry.

I allowed for considerations by including the MacDonald contract as without the $s don't work.

*********************************************************************************************************

By the having fun do you mean building a super team out of my 3 (Jets are my 3rd)?

You'd be suprised @ my team as those ELCs come into play.

[conundrumed]

Lol. No, I didn't mean that, but I like your idea better!

That was my first comeback, and we negotiate.

For fun...

On the table: Provorov and Konecny for Gaudreau + considerations.

Counter-offers welcomed, lol.

 

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, CastleMania said:

The real question is a personal one for Gaudreau: does he want to be here? I don't think anyone can question the kid's skill or drive. You don't excel in the NHL at 5'7" if you lack either of those. But there is a question of what's important to him.

 

I do think that he wants to get better.  This year was a let down for him, because he didn't take a step forward.  

He has to commit to the life of a pro athlete, not a college rat that eats pizza and skittles.  If he would work with a strength coach, he could add muscle to his legs.  That's the difference between a good Marty St.Louis and what he became.  He's may not build upper body mass ever, but that doesn;t mean that he couldn't build a set of tree trunks.

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, CastleMania said:

That's the thing. This isn't the same situation as Iggy. We are a team heading in the right direction, whereas with Iggy we were heading in the wrong direction. The only questions for me are:

1. Can we get there while Gio is still contributing; and
2. If we can't get there while Gio is still contributing, is his leadership and experience more valuable to the development of the flames than a trade?

I don't know the answer to either question, but I will say that Gio's story is more compelling than just about anyone else's. If there's one player you want your team to model itself after it's Gio. Just some thoughts.

 

 

I think you have to see what version of Gio you get next season.  I don;t think he took a step back, but I do think he changed his offense thought process.  

The other thing is you would need to have a top 2 D-man to replace Gio right away.  Hoping that one of the prospects becomes the next Gio is a fools gamble.

I might sanction a trade of Gio for a top goalie, as long as we had some form of replacement in another deal, trade or UFA.

[MAC331]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you have to see what version of Gio you get next season.  I don;t think he took a step back, but I do think he changed his offense thought process.  

The other thing is you would need to have a top 2 D-man to replace Gio right away.  Hoping that one of the prospects becomes the next Gio is a fools gamble.

I might sanction a trade of Gio for a top goalie, as long as we had some form of replacement in another deal, trade or UFA.

I might be all wet here but from all I have read about our defense prospects we should have a good pipeline to eventually replace Giordano. We still need him here for at least 2 more years so the team continues to progress and the prospects develop further.

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I do think that he wants to get better.  This year was a let down for him, because he didn't take a step forward.  

He has to commit to the life of a pro athlete, not a college rat that eats pizza and skittles.  If he would work with a strength coach, he could add muscle to his legs.  That's the difference between a good Marty St.Louis and what he became.  He's may not build upper body mass ever, but that doesn;t mean that he couldn't build a set of tree trunks.

Gaudreau will have to develop whatever he can physically however he will need some mental toughness in order to become better. I witnessed a player that at times was intimidated and frustrated with his own performance, I think he needs to watch a lot of his own game films and forget about reading his headlines. The team needs an improved Gaudreau for next season.

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I have nothing to add except this requires a lot of consternation.

First thing is sign your GM.

After that, it's very hard, for me, at least.

Obviously we need a goalie, but how much $$ and term are we ready to part with?

Is Bernier an option? Or does it have to be a big name signing? Would I take MAF over Bernier at extended term and $$? Probably not.

If we go with a $6mil Bishop, I'm fine with that.

But it also presents an issue with how much we can upgrade at D and F.

I believe we saw what 2 simple moves of inserting Stone and Bart did.

It didn't take a ton to improve how we play.

I feel the same about the F group. It doesn't take much, we just need a couple of the right type of players. Just 2, maybe 3.

Do you want Stajan at C or Nate Thompson? That type of thing. It would be awesome to get an Oshie, but maybe a Beleskey is more what you want to bring to your game plan.

We're not the '94 Rangers, you can't just buy what you want, we have to buy exactly what will work.

That is scary to me. Sign Bishop to 5x5 even, it HAS to work, because we're going down a rabbit-hole of all in on a goalie, and our past with goalies is not great.

I'd maybe, and like I said lot's of consternation, improve the forward group as a priority which would in turn help the backend more than just grabbing big names.

Sorry for the ramble, but it's not so easy as getting Bishop, Alzner and Oshie will solve our problems.

If it doesn't, we are royally screwed to the cap.

This off-season may seal our fate, for better or worse, or we just keep trying to take baby-steps.

I'm not even sure there's a right answer.

So let's get BT inked, and I'll criticize him from there!

Let me say I don't think BT is going anywhere however I do like the position held by ownership. The ability to sit down and discuss where the team is now and where BT would like to improve it is important. The entire organization needs to be on the same page.

There is going to be plenty of options to make a positive change in goal this offseason. I don't see either Elliott or Johnson back.

I think you make a good point about the better play by the team by adding Stone and Bartkowski. I would resign Stone for 3.75M x 3 years but maybe use him in the 3rd pairing and give Andersson a trial period with Brodie.

In regards to the F group, I think it is imperative to shed both Stajan and Bouma this offseason. This would allow Jankowski and another LW like Klimchuk to enter the picture. If they could get TJ Oshie for our top line RW it allows both Tkachuk and Ferland to stay in LW positions to best serve the team. Just had a lightbulb go off, if we were to add TJ and re-sign Versteeg our F group could look like this :

Gaudreau, Monahan, Oshie

Frolik, Backlund, Brouwer

Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar

Ferland, Jankowski, Versteeg

I like the versatility of this group to play together and provide support in the right places.

[travel_dude]

54 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Gaudreau, Monahan, Oshie

Frolik, Backlund, Brouwer

Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar

Ferland, Jankowski, Versteeg

 

Not a bad looking setup.  You might flip Brouwer and Versteeg if this is the players you have.  I think Brouwer might bring down the 2M line.  Maybe the plan is to expose him.  Make it attractive for LV to take him.  Or we get them to take Shink and we trade them Brouwer for one of their excess goalies.  I can't really see the room for Stajan as a full time 4C anymore.  He's a great teammate and still can play the position, but he doesn't make the team any more competitive than using a energy player. Bouma just needs to go. 

 

It doesn't have to be Oshie.  There are a lot of players that would fit just as well or better.  The draft will have some teams trying to avoid losing players for nothing, so maybe there is a guy we can get that way.  

[MAC331]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not a bad looking setup.  You might flip Brouwer and Versteeg if this is the players you have.  I think Brouwer might bring down the 2M line.  Maybe the plan is to expose him.  Make it attractive for LV to take him.  Or we get them to take Shink and we trade them Brouwer for one of their excess goalies.  I can't really see the room for Stajan as a full time 4C anymore.  He's a great teammate and still can play the position, but he doesn't make the team any more competitive than using a energy player. Bouma just needs to go. 

 

It doesn't have to be Oshie.  There are a lot of players that would fit just as well or better.  The draft will have some teams trying to avoid losing players for nothing, so maybe there is a guy we can get that way.  

This set up is based on these forward remaining after all the smoke clears of the offseason. I don't think Brouwer would take away anything from the 2M line and would actually enhance what we want from that line, better suits his talents IMO. With bringing up Jankowski having Ferland and the experience of Versteeg  provides solid support for him.

[Flyerfan52]

12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Lol. No, I didn't mean that, but I like your idea better!

That was my first comeback, and we negotiate.

For fun...

On the table: Provorov and Konecny for Gaudreau + considerations.

Counter-offers welcomed, lol.

 

I gather you don't want the MacDonald salary as a take back.

In that case I'd offer 25 year old C/LW Brayden Schenn (5.125 x 3) & 22 year old D Robert Hagg (6'2", 201 lb. 1 year left on ELC @ 0.894) for Gaudreau. I'd throw in the rights to Del Zotto so the Flames get 1st crack @ him.

I can come up with others as needed but think my 1st 1 was the best.

[JTech780]

Some great quotes from Versteeg this morning.

 

 

I think bringing back Versteeg is a no brainer. He provides good secondary scoring, good skill, good leadership. 4 points in the playoffs this year, he was one of our best forwards in the series.

[cross16]

As long as its a 1 year deal i'm fine bringing back Versteeg. I would avoid term on him personally. 

[CastleMania]

31 minutes ago, cross16 said:

As long as its a 1 year deal i'm fine bringing back Versteeg. I would avoid term on him personally. 

Would you be opposed to a two year deal? I don't know if it matters that much if you get a little discount.

[cross16]

18 minutes ago, CastleMania said:

Would you be opposed to a two year deal? I don't know if it matters that much if you get a little discount.

 

I would stick with the 1 year deal. I get he was very good this year but he's been only OK in previous years and is getting north of 30 now. I think you have to be weary of buying into a guy who was on a PTO just a year ago. 

Money should be low too. He shouldn't' command more than around 1.5 to 1.75 IMO. If it goes north of that then replace him within your system. Don't get caught tying up money in your bottom 6 again. They've been down that road already. 

[Flyerfan52]

50 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I would stick with the 1 year deal. I get he was very good this year but he's been only OK in previous years and is getting north of 30 now. I think you have to be weary of buying into a guy who was on a PTO just a year ago. 

Money should be low too. He shouldn't' command more than around 1.5 to 1.75 IMO. If it goes north of that then replace him within your system. Don't get caught tying up money in your bottom 6 again. They've been down that road already. 

Rest assured that Versteeg will get more than 1.75 & 2 years. Don't act surprised when he signs elsewhere.

He played just below his average output this year which was good for 8th on the Flames. Versteeg was a victim of the salary cap twice @ least but many teams (especially those long in the tooth) will pursue a guy with a 0.54 PPG average while playing 3rd/4th line minutes & ups his game when the real season begins.

[Carty]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Some great quotes from Versteeg this morning.

 

 

I think bringing back Versteeg is a no brainer. He provides good secondary scoring, good skill, good leadership. 4 points in the playoffs this year, he was one of our best forwards in the series.

 

I agree, he might be getting paid less than Brouwer, but he is definitely worth more...   Here's an article related to Gilbertson's tweets...   From:  http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1285573-versteeg-if-i-m-sitting-in-switzerland-in-september-my-agent-s-getting-fired

 

Versteeg: 'If I'm sitting in Switzerland in September, my agent's getting fired'

Kris Versteeg clearly doesn't want to play in Europe next season.

 

"If I'm sitting in Switzerland in September, my agent is getting fired," the pending unrestricted free-agent forward quipped to reporters, according to Postmedia's Wes Gilbertson, as the Calgary Flames cleaned out their stalls Friday.

 

Versteeg, who'll be a UFA if unsigned by July 1, is coming off his best season since 2011-12 from a goal- and point-production standpoint.

 

He scored 15 times and chipped in 37 points in the regular season for the Flames, who were swept out of the first round of the playoffs by the Anaheim Ducks on Wednesday night.

 

Versteeg scored in Game 3 and added three assists in the series.

 

The 30-year-old signed a one-year deal with Calgary last October after joining the Edmonton Oilers training camp on a pro tryout.

 

The Flames are Versteeg's seventh team in 10 NHL seasons.

[cross16]

38 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Rest assured that Versteeg will get more than 1.75 & 2 years. Don't act surprised when he signs elsewhere.

He played just below his average output this year which was good for 8th on the Flames. Versteeg was a victim of the salary cap twice @ least but many teams (especially those long in the tooth) will pursue a guy with a 0.54 PPG average while playing 3rd/4th line minutes & ups his game when the real season begins.

 

May very well be, I don't agree myself but to each his own, and i'll wish him the best but the Flames need to end the practice of tying up so much money in their bottom 6. They have prospect/Young players who are either ready or close to it and its time to get them in the lineup. 

 

End of the day this was a guy who was a failed physical away from playing in Europe last year. You do not overpay for that. 

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

May very well be, I don't agree myself but to each his own, and i'll wish him the best but the Flames need to end the practice of tying up so much money in their bottom 6. They have prospect/Young players who are either ready or close to it and its time to get them in the lineup. 

 

End of the day this was a guy who was a failed physical away from playing in Europe last year. You do not overpay for that. 

I agree with you on Versteeg, 1.5M max and 1 year. I thought he was a good boost for this team but a lot of his play is loose IMO good but not great.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I agree with you on Versteeg, 1.5M max and 1 year. I thought he was a good boost for this team but a lot of his play is loose IMO good but not great.

 

I understand the desire to keep the dollar and term low.  Apart from his age, how much is a player of his calibre really worth.  I would dare say that it's higher than $1.5m.  Look at Mike Fisher, Drew Stafford, even Justin Williams for comps.  JW has a better points total, but is older.  Those three signed 2 year deals north of $4m. 

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I gather you don't want the MacDonald salary as a take back.

In that case I'd offer 25 year old C/LW Brayden Schenn (5.125 x 3) & 22 year old D Robert Hagg (6'2", 201 lb. 1 year left on ELC @ 0.894) for Gaudreau. I'd throw in the rights to Del Zotto so the Flames get 1st crack @ him.

I can come up with others as needed but think my 1st 1 was the best.

I have too much salary tied up in D and my bottom 6, so I'm not turning Gaudreau's $$s into yet another $5mil on D, it's crippling.

If I take back 5 on Schenn, I'm fine with that. But I want Konecny still.

Not offering right now, just feeling out. What is Rubtsov's status?

I can add if Rubtsov is healthy (having a hard time finding out).

 

As you can see, I'm full on trying to recover our F ranks, or Franks, lol. My adds are on the table, but I'm asking Schenn, Konecny and Rubtsov.

What adds do you need for that?

I do realize I'm asking for a lot, so will add to Gaudreau.

[Flyerfan52]

40 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I have too much salary tied up in D and my bottom 6, so I'm not turning Gaudreau's $$s into yet another $5mil on D, it's crippling.

If I take back 5 on Schenn, I'm fine with that. But I want Konecny still.

Not offering right now, just feeling out. What is Rubtsov's status?

I can add if Rubtsov is healthy (having a hard time finding out).

 

As you can see, I'm full on trying to recover our F ranks, or Franks, lol. My adds are on the table, but I'm asking Schenn, Konecny and Rubtsov.

What adds do you need for that?

I do realize I'm asking for a lot, so will add to Gaudreau.

Rubtsov is signed for 3 years to an ELC & joined Chicoutimr of the Q. 22 points (9 & 13) in 16 games.

Schenn & Konecny are NHLers & Rubtsov 1 of the Flyers best forward prospects. You can't restock empty cupboards all in 1 swoop.

Like the Flames the Flyers are a bit short on quality young forwards which is why Hex took Konecny @ #24 & Rubtsov @ #22.

Other than Tkachuk or maybe Bennett Calgary doesn't have a kid their age to compensate as an add.

 

BTW, Provorov is only 0.894 for 2 more years so doesn't break the bank. Konecny the same. With Gaudreau @ 6.75 even with MacDonald @ 5.0 x 3 the Flames gets 2 D for less than the cost of Wideman & Engelland while saving almost 6 up front.

That leaves over $20 million for 2 goalies, a 5/6 D & 4 bottom 6 forwards plus whatever salary LV claims.

 

I'm trying to make a hockey trade while you seem to want to bend the Flyers over. Flames fans will hate losing Gaudreau but Konecny up front & Provorov on D will soon change that. Truthfully I think they are an overpayment. Especially for Philly who is ctill close to cap hell.

[conundrumed]

I thought we were bargaining? for fun.

I'm not raping anyone.

If I have Gaudreau, and want Schenn, Konecny  and Rubtzov, what's my add?

In your opinion, for fun dammit! lol

[JTech780]

I am curious to see what happens down the middle with this team in the off-season. With Monahan, Backlund, Bennett, Stajan and Lazar all coming back next year and Jankowski looking like he is very close to making the jump. I think Bennett needs to take another step next year and I am not sure if playing 3rd line minutes is going to get him there. Backlund took another big step forward this year and he is really relied upon for his defensive ability. I like Stajan and what he brings to this team, but it is probably time for him to move on, whether it is in the expansion draft, trade or buyout.

 

It will be interesting to see if there is a possibility of Backlund or Bennett getting moved for help elsewhere (RW or G). Then you could end up with Monahan as the number 1 center, Backlund or Bennett as the 2nd line center, Lazar on the 3rd line, and Stajan if we can't move or Jankowski as the 4th line center, though I would like a bit more grit and faceoff ability on the 4th line. 

 

Nate Thompson is a UFA, he brings size, grit and faceoff ability, to me he is the ideal 4th line center. Just not sure what kind of contract he would be looking for, and we would have to clear out Stajan first.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Nate Thompson is a UFA, he brings size, grit and faceoff ability, to me he is the ideal 4th line center. Just not sure what kind of contract he would be looking for, and we would have to clear out Stajan first.

I'm a fan of those kind of moves. I want Oshie and all, but boarding me, what did a couple of adjustments on the backend do for us?

It doesn't have to be expensive to shore up the F group.

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I understand the desire to keep the dollar and term low.  Apart from his age, how much is a player of his calibre really worth.  I would dare say that it's higher than $1.5m.  Look at Mike Fisher, Drew Stafford, even Justin Williams for comps.  JW has a better points total, but is older.  Those three signed 2 year deals north of $4m. 

I don't think you are wrong regarding the money, Versteeg likely is worth 2M. The comparible I would use is Lee Stempniak who has been anywhere from 1.8M to 2.5M. Whether it is a 1 yr or 2 year deal would have to be determined by management with consideration to how close our prospect are to fill the openings.