Carty Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 35 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Im in the camp as well that any trade for Johnny has to be also for a top LW Gaudreau, Brouwer, Stajan to NJ for Hall and a Pick.. there you go BT , get it done:) I wouldn't mind losing Brouwer one bit, and Stajan seems like he might be running out of fuel... But even Gaudreau alone for Hall is over payment and NJ would have to add something quite significant for Treliving to consider it... Treliving would also be vilified by a good percentage of the fan base if he traded Gaudreau for anything but another player that has that kind of over all appeal as a draw for fans, and Hall falls short of that even though he is a very good hockey player... Then it has to be considered that there is big money in merchandise, Gaudreau jerseys and other items outsell anyone else's, and it's not even close... Picking up Hall at the right price would be alright, but it would have to be a better deal for the Flames... Gaudreau had an off year and had 2 less goals than Hall, but 10 more assists... Besides, I think Gaudreau will do some soul searching this summer, and come to play next season with a fresh outlook... I'll even go as far to say that there is a good chance next season could be his best yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: If you trade Johnny you do.. we have nobody in the system who replaces what he brings. we dont have to do an Edmonton deal and trade from a massive strength to fill a weakness.. Johnny is a Superstar, we need a superstar..we're not trading an expiring contract or a rental here .. we get a price or he stays This is why I think Hall makes a lot of sense: there are a couple of assumptions here but I feel they are accurate 1)both want out -- Johnny wants to play in the east , Hall wants to play for a winner 2) both bring what the other does and what the other does not .. Johnny sells tickets and is more suited for Eastern play, Hall would fit right in on the top line , and has the size to play in the western playoffs 3) same salary range 4)Hall was super ticked to be traded , and I'm NJ wasnt a fave choice.. Johnny would be motivated to be happy near family 5) Hall grew up a Flames fan.. would be overjoyed to be here , and would stick it to EDM every chance he got In short , both teams win..and get happy players with an upgrade. but if you trade Johnny , you have to replace Johnny..we dont have the luxury. you can get a goalie as good if not better than Schneider via UFA or cheaper trade (Bishop, Smith, Fleury, Darling, etc..) all will not require you to give up a Johnny I thought I answered this earlier that Tkachuk could move top line LW and attempt to get Oshie for RW. Such a deal involving Gaudreau doesn't happen unless you have the loss of Gaudreau covered inside the deal or outside of it. If the loss is already covered outside of the deal you can use Gaudreau to cover off other organizational needs. I do agree Schneider doesn't need to be a target as there are plenty of UFA Goalies around this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I think personally you trade gaudreau you will regret it he had a bad year for a few factors 1 he had Surgery mid-season 2 He had the pressure of a new contract now we all deal with pressure in different way some it is easy for them it is difficult so johnny struggle it happens you deal with it he will get back to his form like we know but giving up on him isnt what is needed here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I thought I answered this earlier that Tkachuk could move top line LW and attempt to get Oshie for RW. Such a deal involving Gaudreau doesn't happen unless you have the loss of Gaudreau covered inside the deal or outside of it. If the loss is already covered outside of the deal you can use Gaudreau to cover off other organizational needs. I do agree Schneider doesn't need to be a target as there are plenty of UFA Goalies around this off season. Tkachuk is not a Johnny replacement .. he will be a star in his own right and reasons, but Elite scoring playmaker isn't one of them ..besides, that line was basically our best all year , you dont break it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 im on the train leave johnny here if he didnt want to be here he wouldnt of resigned now i think it was more the pressures of the contract and the wrist surgury that played the part of his poor season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 minute ago, The_Snowbear said: im on the train leave johnny here if he didnt want to be here he wouldnt of resigned now i think it was more the pressures of the contract and the wrist surgury that played the part of his poor season oh yes, dont get us wrong , I'm not advocating shop him and trade him .. im just speculating on what it would take.. and I no longer believe he's untouchable. i don't think it needs to be a goal to get him out of here, but the returns could make us listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I dont even think we should look at the possibility cause people have bad years also he is a kids so pressure like a contract then surgery each player handles it differently and maybe for all we know the contract was bothering along with the surgery we will never know really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Just now, phoenix66 said: Tkachuk is not a Johnny replacement .. he will be a star in his own right and reasons, but Elite scoring playmaker isn't one of them ..besides, that line was basically our best all year , you dont break it up We will have to disagree on what you have here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Tkachuk is not a Johnny replacement .. he will be a star in his own right and reasons, but Elite scoring playmaker isn't one of them ..besides, that line was basically our best all year , you dont break it up Totals man. Both players are unique in their own ways. Gaudreau is still going to be the higher end offensive force whereas Tkachuk will bring a more well rounded game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 minute ago, The_People1 said: Totals man. Both players are unique in their own ways. Gaudreau is still going to be the higher end offensive force whereas Tkachuk will bring a more well rounded game. exactly .. if anything , Id make Johnny spend the summer with Theoren Fleury..learn how to play nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 44 minutes ago, Carty said: I wouldn't mind losing Brouwer one bit, and Stajan seems like he might be running out of fuel... But even Gaudreau alone for Hall is over payment and NJ would have to add something quite significant for Treliving to consider it... Treliving would also be vilified by a good percentage of the fan base if he traded Gaudreau for anything but another player that has that kind of over all appeal as a draw for fans, and Hall falls short of that even though he is a very good hockey player... Then it has to be considered that there is big money in merchandise, Gaudreau jerseys and other items outsell anyone else's, and it's not even close... Picking up Hall at the right price would be alright, but it would have to be a better deal for the Flames... Gaudreau had an off year and had 2 less goals than Hall, but 10 more assists... Besides, I think Gaudreau will do some soul searching this summer, and come to play next season with a fresh outlook... I'll even go as far to say that there is a good chance next season could be his best yet... Everytime a star player holds out at camp, it hurts them that year statistically. I honestly don't remember the last time a team signed their player in the 11th hour and they joined the team for the first game of the season and didn't miss a beat. Pre-season was the time to audition a RW for JG and SM but JG was holding out and SM was sitting out with an injury. This really contributed negatively to the Flames coming out of the gates. So that said, i feel if we trade Gaudreau this summer, then we are selling low on him because he's capable of so much more.... unless the Habs are willing to part with Price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I can't see us winning any trade involving Gaudreau, or even coming out the other being a better team. Gaudreau did have an off season and he had a rough playoffs, even with that rough season he did lead the team in points. I think you will see a very determined Gaudreau next year, he seems like a proud guy and I don't think this season will sit well with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 The real question is a personal one for Gaudreau: does he want to be here? I don't think anyone can question the kid's skill or drive. You don't excel in the NHL at 5'7" if you lack either of those. But there is a question of what's important to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Castle if he didnt want to be here he wouldnt of signed a contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 For me the off-season game plan is as follows: 1.Re-sign Treliving. 2.Look for a goalie prior to the expansion draft. 3.Entry Draft. 4.Free agency, if we can't trade for a goalie by then, or if they feel there are better options on the free agent market sign a goalie. 5.Re-sign our guys. I think we need to know what a goalie is going to cost us before we can budget the rest of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Castlevania could do better then elliot did in net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 42 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said: I think personally you trade gaudreau you will regret it he had a bad year for a few factors 1 he had Surgery mid-season 2 He had the pressure of a new contract now we all deal with pressure in different way some it is easy for them it is difficult so johnny struggle it happens you deal with it he will get back to his form like we know but giving up on him isnt what is needed here I'm not giving up on him, just acknowledging that playoffs are more physical with less ice all across the league. Given that a different type of superstar might be more attractive. Saying that, TBL did alright with a tiny guy so there is definitely more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 hours ago, MAC331 said: Go for Schneider You mean Gio for Schneider? Gio for Schneider + Hall. It hurts from now until Gio starts to lose his abilities. Hall on Bennett's LW. Tkachuk on Johnny's RW. Ferland on Backlund's LW. I am not a huge Hall fan, but he could be a good player here. Perhaps play him on the top line and convert him or JH to RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Yeah but i just think people forget what he went through this year aswell and the he is still very young with alot to learn ccc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said: Castlevania could do better then elliot did in net Lol, I don't know if I should be insulted or flattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 not ment as a insult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, cccsberg said: I'm not giving up on him, just acknowledging that playoffs are more physical with less ice all across the league. Given that a different type of superstar might be more attractive. Saying that, TBL did alright with a tiny guy so there is definitely more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. As have we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said: Yeah but i just think people forget what he went through this year aswell and the he is still very young with alot to learn ccc Yes, I agree. Look, Gaudreau is perhaps our best player, certainly the most famous. Any trade would be a blockbuster and we'd have to get quality for quality with the primary motivation likely being something other than pure hockey skills (i.e. he wants to go East). I just believe he (nobody) is untouchable and with the ease that Anaheim has twice pretty much shut him down come playoffs we should definitely consider options. I thought Ferland was a great top line addition late-season for the Flames and it definitely opened up the ice for Gaudreau, and diminished some of the cheap shots against him, but it is not enough. Perhaps a better solution is focusing on building up alternatives, i.e. the Bennett line so that teams can't put all their defensive eggs against Gaudreau's line. The Backlund line was great all year and I believe needed as a shut down line so much that their offence fell off come playoffs, so getting a better shut down option would also help. Improving the bottom half of the D would do a lot for that issue sooooooo........ maybe keep Gaudreau and just continue to shore up the weak spots will open things up for everyone? Lots to consider, we definitely still have a few major holes and I look forward to the upcoming changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 the other side is if you start the playoffs like he did having a crappy season your not gonna do any better in the playoffs aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 On our D, One player to keep an eye on is Giordano. I remember when we re-signed him to his current deal, most fans agreed there was about 3-years of elite game remaining in the tank. Well, he's spent 2 of them now. If we want to avoid Giordano's contract burdening us in his final couple years, then this might be the off-season to unload him for something good. I know nobody likes to talk about the realities of aging but look at Corey Perry for example. He was a former league MVP but now an $8.625-mil 3rd liner for another 4-years. I'm also seeing the limits of TJ Brodie after an entire year on the Flames top PP unit and only putting up average stats. He was also -16 on a playoff team (for awhile in November/December, he was #1 in the league for most minus). His play improved after we surgically removed Wideman from his side but still, Brodie's peak falls short of a legit first pairing Dman on most teams. This sucks. I remember the Jets were wanting to trade Jacob Trouba for a LHS LD in a similar age group and most felt Brodie was overpayment. Now, i don't think so. I think Trouba is a solid 2nd pairing guy with 1st pair potential who is more well rounded and RHS RD which is hard to find whereas Brodie has been exposed when challenged in a bigger role. (too bad Trouba got concussed by Bennett though)... Brodie might be our best trade asset to fetch a true #1 RHS RW this summer. I hate to say this but i think Brodie is replaceable (i didn't think so at the end of last season). A 2nd pair LHS LD can be replaced rather easily. In regards to Dougie Hamilton, i was extremely critical of him early this season because it looked like he didn't have a brain. Like seriously. He can defend adequately but his decisions with the puck were prone to WTF moments. He's come around after partnering with Giordano the rest of the season and put up some great numbers... only for playoff pressure to get to him it seems. I'm not saying to make trading him a priority or anything but he's not untouchable in my opinion. I feel like if we trade Giordano, or if Giordano's game slips, then Dougie's game is going South with it. So, he's an asset i would manage as a "sell high if available". Engellend I'm on the fence about. I understand the toughness he brings but he's 35 and looked noticeably slower in the last two months of the season than i've ever seen him. I would only do a $1-mil for 1-year deal with him and i would even do it as option 2. IF someone better is available via UFA, then that's the route i would go... or someone is available for trade on the cheap. Stone at $4-mil-per for 2-years i'm down for. He's already making $4-mil but had a down year statistically so he shouldn't have negotiating leverage. He probably wants a short term deal to prove himself further. The Flames should also be careful that Stone is only a 25-point guy that doesn't justify $4-mil rather than a 35-point guy which he was 2 seasons ago. Overall, i like Stone's X's and O's and steadiness. If we decide to keep Hamilton and Stone as RHS RD long term, then that's not bad actually and Stone seems steady even without Brodie. Wideman gone. Bartkowski who cares. Kulak back as a 7th D again or lost to LV, not going to shed a single tear. Maybe Rasmus Anderson graduates to full time next season with Engellend's departure. RHS RD could be sheltered on the bottom pairing role for a season as he matures and learns the NHL game further. Anderson is a smart player. I've suggested this in the past, Sam Bennett for Noah Hanifin because the Canes are pretty stacked with young D and could use a potential high end scorer (not that the Flames can't use one but with Monahan and Backlund locking down the top 2 Centers position, there's no minutes and quality wingers for Bennett). All in all, we could blow up that entire blueline. OR, we could return nearly identical. Many ways we can go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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